X counts

lab

I'm not a people person.
Jul 18, 2003
5,845
just past the middle of nowhere
For those of you who shoot indoor, what are some of the tricks or secrets that you have/use to get your X counts higher? My scores for the season have been in the mid to high 290's with my highest of the year coming last night with a 299. My only drawback is my Xs have not exceeded 41 in any of the 12 rounds that I have shot. Can someone share some advice?

BTW, I am shooting a bowhunter set-up.
 

maxcam

12 pointer
Mar 29, 2005
6,208
lab said:
For those of you who shoot indoor, what are some of the tricks or secrets that you have/use to get your X counts higher? My scores for the season have been in the mid to high 290's with my highest of the year coming last night with a 299. My only drawback is my Xs have not exceeded 41 in any of the 12 rounds that I have shot. Can someone share some advice?

BTW, I am shooting a bowhunter set-up.

Lab there is no real trick.....Now that you are threatening 300, soon you will hit is.....it wont happen eveytime but gradually it will. Then you will see small incremental increases in your x count.....One thing I will tell you is that if you can shoot a 300 consistantly in FS Bowhunter then you are going to be a load to deal with in most shoots......Those other things that take you to Unlimited and open classes such as long stabilizers and scopes with peep clearifiers do help with x ring counts.....Have you ever looked at them.....Some of these set ups actually look like you are lookin through a cheap scope at the x........

To answer your question in just a few words.....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE......

Fat shafts may be something to look into if you arent shooting them already.....
 

lab

I'm not a people person.
Jul 18, 2003
5,845
just past the middle of nowhere
Maxcam I am already shooting Carbon Express Xjammers. These are 26 series shaft that CX jsut came out with this year, and they do help. One thing that I have thought about switching is my pin diameter. I am currently shooting a .029, but thought about switching to a .019. Several of the guys that I shoot with are shooting .019 pins and some even .01.:eek: They say that it allows them to see the X with the smaller pin instead of covering it up like the .029 will.
 

Xtreme

Cyber-Hunter
Dec 12, 2001
3,117
.
Xtreme

lab said:
For those of you who shoot indoor, what are some of the tricks or secrets that you have/use to get your X counts higher? My scores for the season have been in the mid to high 290's with my highest of the year coming last night with a 299. My only drawback is my Xs have not exceeded 41 in any of the 12 rounds that I have shot. Can someone share some advice?

BTW, I am shooting a bowhunter set-up.

If you are shooting a bowhunter type pin set up you will be better served to focus more on your pin than the xring. Kind of like shooting a pistol with iron sights.
 
Dec 18, 2005
31
Lab,
It sounds like you are shooting "pins", may I suggest you try a "6 oclock hold" on your target instead of covering up the target with your point of aim. Some folks like to cover up the point of aim with the pin but I always perfered setting the target on top of my pin. Your bow should also fit correctly and be in tune for it to aim easily, you would be suprised how much different a bow aims if it is a bit out of tune or does not fit well. With you shooting in the high 290's you are almost there.....find something that feels right and Like Max said just "practice,practice,practice"...

Good Luck
 

Duster

12 pointer
Dec 14, 2001
17,801
Up in the woods above Lake Malone
I am not up to date on the bowhunter class rules anymore but can you use a circle pin that has no magnifacation ? I told Lab about one I used in freestyle limited year ago. It was a simple circle with a post type pin that came off the bottom of the circle. It encircled the spot perfect at 20 yards. Even practice with this sight pin helped you to learn where to place the tip of the post where you wanted the arrow to hit. If you have to stay with a straight pin I would say the smaller the better where you could see the spot instead of covering it up totaly. Also if you use a peep sight the smaller hole the better from what I found out. Except while shooting Indiana state in the convention center where the light sucks...:( Then a lighter and a heated up finishing nail makes a great hole opener. Tends to make you concentrate on lineing things up if you don't have much wiggle room to play with.

I also told him he would someday eye a truck full of conduit leaving a electrical shop and wonder what dia shaft that would be...:D
 

keith meador

Got the Spotted Fever
Sep 18, 2003
12,072
Grindstone Branch, KY, USA.
what is the foc of your arrows? if they dont have enough weight in the front it could cause large groups. is your arrow spined correctly? you may have to add a lot of weight to the shaft to get the spine right.

what type release are you shooting? when you do miss, where do the arrows usually impact the target?

some practice: take electrical tape and make a cross on a 20 yard target. shoot at least 50 arrows at the intersection without making a sight adjustment. you will notice a trend using this method. adjust your sight after you have shot 50 arrows. repeat at longer yardages to get the perfect pin setup.

are you using back tension in the shot sequence, or squeezing the trigger like a rifle? using back tension will allow you to concentrate on aiming and not the shot.

hope made a good point as well...how do you aim? does the pin float, or do you try to make the shot when the pin is still? do you see the spot you want to hit clearly with a fuzzy pin, or crisp pin with fuzzy target? are you shooting a caliper style release, do you execute the shot or shoot (manipulate) the shot...do you shoot the arrow the instant the pin hits the x ring? what type of fixed pins are you shooting? round aperture or the old style boxed in type?

here is what works for me....i focus on the target. the pin will be fuzzy unless you have superman eyes. i shoot a scope with a lens. your mind will automatically center your pin in your peep, and put the pin on what you are looking at. the mind knows it needs to be there, so it will do it for you, just relax....i shoot a back tension release. i dont have to worry about shooting the shot, just form and aiming. shooting a shot with a pin that is not floating is actually not good. that means you have too much tension in your bowarm, and at the shot, the bow will generally go that way...for a right handed shooter shooting a one cam bow the shot will be high and left. dont spend too much time aiming. develope a shot sequence that only lasts 10 seconds. if you go too long in the shot, let down and start over. never shoot a shot just to shoot it and get rid of it. make it mean something and count for something. after a while things get better.

make sure you have consistent hand placement in the grip...i am assuming you are shooting a one cam bow, but again make sure your setup is correct, including arrows. a big heavy stiff arrow does you no good if it is not set up correctly and it will not shoot to point of impact requardless how good of a shot you are...one cam bows like arrows that spine in the middle, or maybe a little weak. you can shoot stiff arrows on a two cam, but it takes a little creep tuning of the bow.


when are you shooting the bulk of your x rings? early in the match, then getting loose at the end? fatigue? keep a shot chart on a few practice rounds with numbered arrows. number your 5 spot target and shoot a numbered arrow at each spot. dont switch arrows, always shoot one at one for an entire round. you may have a bad arrow, or thru the round you may get tired and shoot a weaker shot...

fix the mind....shoot a 10 yard target for a while, and use the same 5 spot target you would use at 20 yards. keep shooting the 10 yard bale until you can shoot the 300 with 56 or more x rings. then move back to 15, then 20. allowing the mind to win will help with confidence, and shooting at 20 yards will become as easy as shooting 10....

hope this babble helps some.....give it a try and get back with us....
 

lab

I'm not a people person.
Jul 18, 2003
5,845
just past the middle of nowhere
Thanks guys. keith, you have made several very good points that I have thought about and/or experinced. My set-up is as follows:

2005 Martin Cougar Magnum
Tru-Arc+ cam
28" draw
Trophy Taker Shaky Hunter rest
Vital Bow Gear Profix .029" site
Carbon Xpress Xjammers 30" @ 492 gr (no weight in the ends)
Trufire Judge Buckle release

I have practiced on my from and find myself going thru a series of checks in my mind before every shot. Are my feet positioned correctly? Is there more weight on my front font instead of my back one? Is my bow fitting in my hand like it should? Is my anchor where is should be? Does the string touch the end of my nose? Do I have a slight bend in my arm?

It may soundlike a bunch of things to think about, but I find that if I "check" all of these things and everything is in place, my scores will reflect it. My 5 shot sequence takes more time than it used to, but as long as my scores continue to improve, who cares.:D

As far as my point of focus and pins placement goes, I do allow my pin to float. I have found that if I try to make the pin stay in one spoint that I will often catch myself either tourquing or punching the bow. When I knock the arrow (which are numbered 1 thru 5 and are shot in that order)my focus is on the target that I am shooting and nothing else. Not until I squeeze the trigger on my release does my eye leave that target. I focus on the X and let the "fuzzy" pin come to it. Last night, after refletching my arrows, I had to aim at the top of the X to acheive the pont of impact that I was looking for. Shold I correct this or continue to aim off of the X? Should I do as suggested and let the pin be at 6:00 in the X or have it centered?

My X count will not show a drastic difference from early in the match to late. I do however, prefer to shoot the bottom line and find it a tab bit more difficult to shoot the top line late in the shoot. For this reason I try to shoot the top line first and switch to the bottom line for the last 6 rounds. It is easier for me to aim down than it is to shoot level.

After reading this is there anything that I still did not answer or need to be picked apart on? Trust me guys, I am not going to get offended by someone trying to help me improve my shooting game so that I will be noticed by my peers when I step to the line. I love the intimidation factor.:D

Here is a pic of me that shows my form. And for the record, my grip is not tight. My fingers are barely toughing the riser.
Cnv0144.jpg
 
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maxcam

12 pointer
Mar 29, 2005
6,208
One thing I will tell you right now.....If you are striving to become a great spot shooter you need to go to a back tension release......Something like a Carter Holething or a Stanslowski .......I do not care who you are, a back tension release will improve your groups if you give it enough time and learn to shoot it!

Let me suggest another thing....If you are going to stay in Bowhunter Freestyle, loose those cams go to a wheel bow and set up with string cables.....They say a picture is worth a thousand words and its true those three things I just pointed out will get you where you want to go!
 
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keith meador

Got the Spotted Fever
Sep 18, 2003
12,072
Grindstone Branch, KY, USA.
looks like your bowhand is a little deep, meaning you have too much heel in the shot. rotate your bowhand out a little, shooting the bow from the lifeline on the pad of your thumb. an example would be to lean against a door jam like you were going to hang out for a while. your hand will automatically find a compfortable position. usually a V. taking some of your hand out of the grip will help a lot.

imagine your shooting a shot with bone structure instead of muscle control. ideally you want to make as much of your form as possible supported by bone structure instead of controlling the bow with muscle tension. muscle tension is very hard to repeat in the small muscle groups of the arms and hands. allow your wrist to bend back, almost forming an L with your thumb and forefinger (booger finger for your rick). this will allow you to use bone structure to support the bow. try a few shots and see how it feels. for most it is a little strange because most folks feel like they have to hold the riser.

when you shoot the shot, does the bow sling contact the back of your hand? that is when i know the shot really broke good, the bowsling always hits the back of my hand.....looking at your pic you may want to loosen yours up a bit. it looks like you have the bow strapped to your hand...too much pressure will cause goofy things to happen as well....loosen up and relax...
 

keith meador

Got the Spotted Fever
Sep 18, 2003
12,072
Grindstone Branch, KY, USA.
one more thing i might suggest, if you are going to continue shooting the release you have in the pic, put the trigger in the second joint of the index finger instead of the first. that will roll your hand forward a bit, raising your elbow slightly, and enabling you to use a little more back tension in the shot. it is hard to punch the trigger with your hand deeper in the release.
 

letmfly

6 pointer
Feb 19, 2006
427
One thing you can do is wear that same shirt but don't use any deordorant, that should throw off your competitors.
 

letmfly

6 pointer
Feb 19, 2006
427
Beer and belly bombers, now that should be an illegal weapon! Brings back the late 70's.
 


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