WMA in Dist. 7 of KY.

Discussion in 'Small Game Hunting' started by Birdman, Feb 26, 2002.

  1. Birdman

    Birdman Cyber-Hunter

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    Feb 26, 2002
    Paintsville, KY, USA.
    Sept. will end a six year grouse study on Yatesville WMA. 3 years ago Dept. of Fish and Wildlife closed grouse hunting on Yatesville WMA and opened all WMA's in Dist. 7 to statewide regulations on all small game to provide a greater opportunity for small game hunters while the
    grouse study was in progress on Yatesville WMA.
    The hunters in Dist. 7 would like to see all WMA's remain open on statewide regulations with the exception of specialized WMA's such as Ballard etc... The Dept. of Fish and Wildlife, commision meeting will be held March the 8th to determine if this will happen. We in Dist. 7 hope that you feel the way that we do and appreciate your comments and input on this subject. Birdman

    Ronnie Wells
    Box 1588 Paintsville KY 41240
     
  2. grouseguy

    grouseguy 12 pointer

    I have never understood why small game seasons were different on WMA's than statewide. See my comments on the "Small Game Seasons" thread for some of my views concerning closing seasons on Dec 31, whether its on WMA's or statewide.
     
  3. Valley Station

    Valley Station Cyber-Hunter

    Small WMA's of western and central Ky are much different than Daniel Boone region of the state. With high hunter densities here, WMA's around this part of the state get stomped and tromped pretty hard. Are problem is that quail & rabbit seasons have traditionally been the same. The dynamics of maintaining or increasing the quail population is much different than cottontail rabbits.You can shoot rabbits hard every year, and they come right back, they breed like "rabbits". We need to give the quail a little more slack.
     
  4. Birdman

    Birdman Cyber-Hunter

    3,669
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    Feb 26, 2002
    Paintsville, KY, USA.
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
    Small WMA's of western and central Ky are much different than Daniel Boone region of the state. With high hunter densities here, WMA's around this part of the state get stomped and tromped pretty hard. Are problem is that quail & rabbit seasons have traditionally been the same. The dynamics of maintaining or increasing the quail population is much different than cottontail rabbits.You can shoot rabbits hard every year, and they come right back, they breed like "rabbits". We need to give the quail a little more slack.


    The small WMA's in Western and Central Ky. are different than WMA's in Eastern Ky for several reasons 1st the size of some WMA's 2nd the reason or purpose of certain WMA's. And geological make up of terrain from easternKy. to western Ky., it's over 400 miles. There's no where in the U.S. if you travel that distance will have the same game regulations. As far as the Quial, rabbit situation. If quial have the habitat and food source they will be hardy just as hardy as rabbit. The difference is the number of hunters, not hunting, and the areas that we have to hunt with the (proper habitat).
    A season change will be on the table at the March Commission meeting to make western and eastern zones for small game to begin together. This is not a good ideal for small game hunters.
    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

    Ronnie Wells
    Director of 7th Dist. Federation to the League of KY Sportsman & Director of KY Grouse Hunters Assoc.
    Box 1588 Paintsville KY 41240
     
  5. CPA Hunter

    CPA Hunter 8 pointer

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    Dec 10, 2001
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    Birdman, what are the proposed date changes?

    If you stop the small game season at December 31st then you basically give the rabbit/deer hunter only one month to seriously rabbit hunt. Are you just concerned with Grouse or does this effect the rabbit hunter?
     
  6. GSP

    GSP 14 Pointer Staff Member

    13,077
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    Dec 12, 2001
    Montrose
    Birdman,
    I have a LKS 6th,meeting next week, Frank Brown should be there. Do you know if this plan had been layed out to the commision yet? Does anyone know what they are wanting to do except the east/west start times?
    I will find out what I can. I see no reason for stopping Dec 31.




    Edited by - gsp on 02/27/2002 8:39:52 PM
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman Cyber-Hunter

    3,669
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    Feb 26, 2002
    Paintsville, KY, USA.
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
    Birdman, what are the proposed date changes?

    If you stop the small game season at December 31st then you basically give the rabbit/deer hunter only one month to seriously rabbit hunt. Are you just concerned with Grouse or does this effect the rabbit hunter?


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote> CPA I am concerned about all game. What will be going on in March at the commission meeting is to change small game seasons in Ky. to open in the east at the same date they open in the west. If you know the history on this you know what I'm taking about if not, rabbit and quial season opens on Nov. 1st in the east and Nov. 12th in the area west of I65 or that general area. What their taking about is moving the dates to open on the same day. If you need more information on this get back and I'll give you the rest of the story.

    Ronnie Wells
    Director of 7th Dist. Federation to the League of KY Sportsman & Director of KY Grouse Hunters Assoc.
    Box 1588 Paintsville KY 41240
     
  8. Fortress

    Fortress Fawn

    17
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    Feb 28, 2002
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    The hunting seasons on WMA's in eastern Ky. should should not close on the last day of the year. They should stay open until the state guidelines and close in January and end of February. There is not a biological reason for WMA's to close earlier than the state wide regulation. Closing them earlier is a great disservice to the people that pay for the priviledge to hunt. We deserve better treatment than this form the Wildlife Commission.
     
  9. GSP

    GSP 14 Pointer Staff Member

    13,077
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    Dec 12, 2001
    Montrose
    I just returned from the LKS meeting. Frank Brown told us that there was no change to be voted upon this Friday. I asked if that since it was not on the agenda if it would be possible for it to come to vote. He said, "no".

    I hope I was told correctly. I voiced my opinion to him that there is no reason to stop seasons short.
     
  10. grouseguy

    grouseguy 12 pointer

    GSP and others;

    IMO, our real fight will come next year for all WMA's and statewide for grouse. I firmly believe that the Dept will skew the data from the Appalachain Grouse Research Project, which was just recently completed at Yatesville, in order to close grouse season earlier statewide and return WMA's to a 12/31 close for all small game. The final report on the research project will be out sometime this year and more than likely will be used against us.

    In their preliminary report, after year 3 of the 6 year study, the researchers definately used some "creative logic" to arrive at their conclusions based on the data gathered.
     
  11. Birdman

    Birdman Cyber-Hunter

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    Feb 26, 2002
    Paintsville, KY, USA.
    Grouseguy we (Kentucky Grouse Hunters) have beleaved that from day one and I hope others through out the state will wake up and see what is going on. This last year should have convinced them that the hunter has nothing to do with the decline of our grouse.It's habitat and an alturnitive food source. In their study,first three years Predation accounted for the majority of the mortality at all study areas and in every year. Hunting accounted for a minor amount of total mortality. With in the executive summary a statement says (Although hunting accounted for a minor amount of total mortality. we found a significant negative correlation between hunting mortality and annual survival rates suggesting that late season hunting mortality was additive to natural morality.) When asked about this statement their remarks were that's not what we ment. In the last three years of their study they have proven that the hunters has no effect but with their twisting of words and green attitude, your right keep an eye on them. And by the way I received the results monday, from their last two years on the nutrition of our grouse in late season and Ky. birds were the healthist of any other state. BUT KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN.
     
  12. Birdman

    Birdman Cyber-Hunter

    3,669
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    Feb 26, 2002
    Paintsville, KY, USA.
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
    I just returned from the LKS meeting. Frank Brown told us that there was no change to be voted upon this Friday. I asked if that since it was not on the agenda if it would be possible for it to come to vote. He said, "no".

    I hope I was told correctly. I voiced my opinion to him that there is no reason to stop seasons short.


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

    If you'll give me your e-mail address I'll send you a copy of the agenda. my e-mail is [email protected]
     
  13. CSS archer

    CSS archer BBBC Members

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    Dec 13, 2001
    Central KY
    I believe in areas that are hunted hard, grouse are greatly impacted by February hunting. The best thing that could happen for the resource would be a Jan. 31 closing. I will continue to hunt February, as long as it is legal, I try not to shoot hens and feel guilty when I do.

    A bird that makes it to February is very likely to nest, there are many more birds in November than February and the hunting is not as big of an impact then.

    I wish statewide grouse opened November 1st and closed January 31st. If there were only 6 grouse hunters in the state it wouldn't matter when season closed, the public areas which I only have access to hunt, get hammered by people. Think about the resource, not the easiest time to find them in the hollows.
     
  14. grouseguy

    grouseguy 12 pointer

    CSS, I must respectfully disagree with your position. Hunting is not the problem with grouse. By closing hunting season earlier, you are only putting a band-aid on the issue, while causing potentially irreparable harm.

    First, with hunting only accounting for 16% of grouse mortality, while predation accounts for 78%, by penalizing hunters (by shortening the season)instead of addressing the real issue of predators you have just fixed something that wasn't broke. I personally would rather see predator control along with habitat improvement, but since the real predator problem is raptors, which are federally protected, then we must focus on habitat improvement to allow for more cover to make grouse harder to catch for predators than other easier non-game prey.

    Secondly, and most important, if you close season earlier, you decrease opportunities for hunters, which makes grouse hunting less feasible for some hunters. Then you lose a certain percentage of hunters from the sport because it is no longer cost effective to keep and train dogs for the shortened season. When you lose hunters, you then lose support for that game species...Hunters are the best friend that game animals have.

    In conclusion, IMHO, shortening grouse season only serves to penalize sportsmen, while failing to address the real problem, and effectively draws support away from the resource you are trying to protect.
     
  15. CSS archer

    CSS archer BBBC Members

    4,728
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    Dec 13, 2001
    Central KY
    I certainly agree that poor habitat increases grouse predation. That is an issue all in its own and I'm certain we agree there.

    Shortening the season is not the problem, it's doing away with February hunting. Most of us hunt mostly in February...because it's usually good weather and the only hunting available at that time....and tradition. It is true that birds alive in February are much more likely to make it to nest than are birds 2 months earlier. We do not hunt woodcock then, because they are returning to the breeding grounds. I flush more grouse early in the season, and tend to bag more juveniles then, the 4 birds we took in the last 2 days of season were 3 adults and 1 juvenile. If I lived in grouse country I would hunt a lot in October, it's tough with 70+ days on my dogs which I swim in the off season to keep in shape. Early and late are the best times, that time of year, and I bowhunt, waterfowl hunt, rabbit hunt. That is the real reason the thought of eliminating February hunting hurts us, we(most) all like to do other hunting as well, February concentrates us on grouse, and will degrade our future flush rates.
     

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