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Discussion in 'Varmint Hunting' started by MammothCaveHunter, Jan 7, 2011.
It is actually known that hte hogs were hauled in. Fairly easy to get into where they were originally seen first, and not be seen unloading them. They have an idea of the who did it but proving it is another story at this point. And all sighting up to this time as far as I know have been in zones 1 and 2 ,so far. There may be more in zone 3 that just may not have been seen yet since some of that area is very hard to get in to at times.
And for anything to get much of a start in there would be a miracle in itself with the coyote population the LBL has. Not much of a chance for a litter of pigs to make it to weaning weight. Jimmie
OKAY LETS NOT GET OFF SUBJECT AND HIGHJACK A POST GUYS. First off, where did the gun comment even come from????? and where was .223 mentioned. If you must know, my weapon of choice is an RRA lower with 6.8 titan 1-11 barrel upper 110 gr. bullet. In 2 years I shot around 550 hogs with either this weapon or a 12 ga benelli M4 with buckshot at the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. With that being said, I'm only trying to locate hogs at this point on LBL and got the job from my experience there at the Smokies. Just thought as many of you guys had been out there, you might have seen or heard of something that I could check out and bump that specific area up on my priorities list instead of doing a search beginning at the North end and ending at the South end. Either way, it is my goal to look at every drainage, ridge, and body of water within an area to say yes or no and how many, if pigs are present. It is a huge place and singles or really small groups could be overlooked for a while, but with the amount of sign they leave and with a good search, evidence of their presence should be found. We know at this time there are not many pigs there, but how many will determine LBL's path in what to do about them. If anyone has seen anything, the info I'm after is the when(if possible) the where (like drainage, bay, hollow, etc) and how many or what kind of sign. Thanks to all who have already spent time out there, and thanks in advance for any info I recieve. Just thought I would exercise all resources possible, including this one.
As for anything getting much of a start out there, WHERE DID ALL THE FREAKIN ARMADILLOS COME FROM???? (not a bash, just a wow!!!) lmao Those things are really slow, stupid, and easy to catch; I've found several that coyotes have killed, but you'd think they'd eat them all, but I believe the large number of them is working to their advantage. I was absolutely amazed at their numbers. I've heard next year they will be a non-game species and will appear in the guide so they will be legal to take. As for the pigs and the coyotes, you guys are right, loads and loads of coyotes, but believe me when I say a nice sized sow with a bad attitude, can protect her farrow just fine. She may lose one here and there, as predators are very smart and consistent, but not completely devastating with so much else out there that is easier to catch. (That is with the sow still alive, if she's gone, they're cake) And with this high number of predators, the fact the reports are very scattered and almost always in low number of pigs or even a single, the loads of people hunting at LBL, these all are working against the pigs as far as reproducing exponentially. You see, the reason pigs can do so well is the fact that they are the ultimate omnivore, so its hard to starve them, they have excellent nose and hearing, and they reproduce RAPIDLY. The last is the kicker. If they aren't bred at every cycle and produce farrows of piglets, their population growth rates are alot less. So to that, if they are not concentrated enough with in at least a small area to breed regularly, the high number of hunters (although none have reported to have taken any) the high number of predators, then the growth rate of the population is slow, but even a crawling pace will lead to more. Translocation (those being brought in) will be the main problem and hogs of the opposite sex released within the same area to where they will interact regularly, or pregnant individuals being released is another.
Side note, if you have never seen or shot a .338 lapua, and get the chance, DO SO!!! A friend of mine who is ex-military in Wyoming, built one and we got to play with it this past September when we were out there. OMG!!! It was obviously a bench rifle, and with a muzzlebreak and modifications, didn't kick bad at all. His 19 year old daughter actually shot her antelope with it at 956 yards!!!! I think his goal is to kill something over 1000 with it. I can't even imagine that.
Good Luck finding and killing the hogs. I didn't mean to get off subject about the guns, but True Rifleman has really got some tall tales. Just search his post. You'll get the best laughs you've had in a long time.
Sorry about the gun comment didnt mean to hijack your thread.
Don't you never poligize fo da troof!
Wow! Thats a hog and a third average for each day!
I never knew of a sow that didn't have a bad attitude , LOL. But those aren't your normal coyote so to speak. They have habits that biologist say is impossible for coyote. Had to prove it to Bloemer myself. They teach these habits to each generation as they come along. If they use hte same tactics on hogs they do on deer , a sow would loose her litter within two weeks if they found her. I have had these tactics used on me as a hunter. And I find them absolutely interesting and so hard to deal with it isn't funny. In fact a couple of hte best eastern hunters I know have brain stormed this with me and we have yet to find a solution that will work when we encounter a group with these tactics. Most of the alpha pairs in there die of old age unless potted from the road.
So IMO, your dealing with survivors that have been pushed almost constantly from the time they leave the teet to the day they die. The winds in there tell them where and when hunters are in the area, and we know a hogs nose is a match for a coyote's. I don't think a sounder of pigs could contain more than two maybe three at most. They willl continue to move until they find that tiny area in which they can feed in peace most of the time. These are going to be remote and off the path for even coyotes. Areas 1, 2and 3 are the only ones I know that have such areas in them. Coyotes simply own everything else up there. From Smith Bay south there is a group of coyotes for each and every drainage, sometimes two, depending on size of drainage. Very few of hte coyote males are large enough to control bigger territories.
I know one of these large males died last year. So group dynamics and territories in that area may have changed as well. Jimmie
I took this comment from your above post. "They have habits that biologist say is impossible for coyote."
What exactly do you mean by this?? They hunt in a pack? They hunt adult deer? Not afraid of man?? Could they have some dog breeding in them that make them this way? Just curious. I have read alot of your post and highly respect your opinion of coyote behavior.
I seen lots of sign a few years ago on the North End when I walked up on a Laminated sign nailed to a tree that read THIS AREA IS BAITED FOR WILD HOGS !
They can and do hunt adult deer on occasion. Especially when hte population peaks and we have somewhere around 7 to 800 coyotes in there.This does not go on all the time !
Most of them are feeding on small prey right now, at least as long as it last's. So most of what you would call in would be singles.
The way they hunt deer is amazing . The alpha pair and the nursemaid have worked out a system where the young female gets upwind and flushes the deer toward the waiting pair. Deer smells single coyote and takes off away from it. Older pair can hear what is happening and are able to move in front of the deer without being winded or seen until too late.
So take hte above scenario and apply it to a sow protecting her litter. She would have 3 of them on her at once. I can see this in my mind as clear as if I watched it personally. Two work on the sow keeping her busy while the other goes for the pigs. Every time she turns to protect the pigs one of them takes a chunk out of her rear. And by tag teaming this way they could take down a fair sized hog too.
As for there being some dog in the LBL popualtion, it's possible. There is more color variation in the coyote population there than anywhere I have been myself. I have seen whiites and blacks and every color in between there. I have personally seen 4 white animals. Killed the first one I saw . I have seen normally marked pups as well as white , brown and red all in hte same litter.
They fear man still like any other coyote would. Jimmie
And never led to anything..... oh well. Once baited and trap set, they disappeared from what I'm told
That is a popular type pack tactic for anywhere that canines exist. But have you ever seen a sow kill a coyote, or one that was in a pack, it happens. Now if a pack is after a sow, and are consistent, you're right her piglets may very well be doomed, but its alot of energy exertion and effort, so given many factors into consideration, they better be hungry before they try it or at least, opportunistic. Curious as to what you call a pack as well, A family group??? I know you're talking about the alpha pair, which is typically the dominant breeding pair for the simple fact that the others are pups or sub adults. Now are there packs of coyotes that are all adults, absolutely, usually from my experience, those family groups or those opportunistic situations from being in the same area at the same time. I would venture to say that there is not one tactic that could be tried that coyotes haven't. Either by accidental implementation or by trial and error, or simply from education of past generations. Bottom line, they are a predator, so they typically read the situation with what skill they have at hand and use what they have knowledge and skill wise to get the job done. I don't know what would be so atypical about that. Also keep in mind that other animals learn too. If they implement the same tactic all the time, prey, especially those as developed as deer will learn as well. Same as a deer hunter never has a 100 % proven tactic.
Thanks for some of the opinions, but again, just hog info please!!!!!! Don't wanna ruffle any feathers between members from past discussions.
Thanks, it was absolutely a blast, but I actually only worked there for about 7 months each year as I was finishing my masters project with them in the other months. They have a worsening problem there and it is my belief that the program will only get better.