Toby Keith's I love this bar

Xi Bowhunter

12 pointer
Nov 17, 2002
11,382
Goetz Farm
The gun range that banned Muslims will likely be deemed to be acting unconstitutionally and in violation of federal law. You can't discriminate against someone because of their race, religion, gender, ethnic origin, etc. etc. All the Title VII classifications.

The gun shop owner that bans Obama supporters is not discriminating against a suspect or protected class, so his actions are perfectly lawful.

Again, not trying to argue, but isn't "political affiliation" one of those sections that can't be discriminated against?
 

EdLongshanks

12 pointer
Nov 16, 2013
18,540
Northern Kentucky
As a nation, we have allowed the intrusion of government into our daily lives and it is sad. We always hear about the right to bear arms and the right to free speech, but what about property rights. We have basically allowed the state to dictate all aspects of "owning" property. Through taxation, regulation, zoning ordinances, classifications, application processes, etc the government controls almost every facet of our existence. Now with the proposal of the internet neutrality act, they will control the only remaining bastion of freedom left. I am a huge proponent of the second ammendment. However, I do not think one ammendment trumps another. They are all equal and should be treated as such. Just because the Kentucky conceal carry law does not respect the property rights of a business owner...does not make it right. True freedom and a truly free market would correct many if not all of the problems we face. I'm afraid we are on an irreversible course and it's too late. The government is growing by leaps and bounds and I absolutely refuse to believe, in any way, that it is somehow a good thing.
 

ptbrauch

12 pointer
Nov 10, 2004
11,024
The OC
So, the Mall of America has specifically been called out as a target by the same group that attacked the mall in Kenya that resulted in 67 deaths in 2013. The Mall of America has signs banning firearms in the mall. The mall is private property. If you go, do you ignore the ban or not?
 

ptbrauch

12 pointer
Nov 10, 2004
11,024
The OC
As a nation, we have allowed the intrusion of government into our daily lives and it is sad. We always hear about the right to bear arms and the right to free speech, but what about property rights. We have basically allowed the state to dictate all aspects of "owning" property. Through taxation, regulation, zoning ordinances, classifications, application processes, etc the government controls almost every facet of our existence. Now with the proposal of the internet neutrality act, they will control the only remaining bastion of freedom left. I am a huge proponent of the second ammendment. However, I do not think one ammendment trumps another. They are all equal and should be treated as such. Just because the Kentucky conceal carry law does not respect the property rights of a business owner...does not make it right. True freedom and a truly free market would correct many if not all of the problems we face. I'm afraid we are on an irreversible course and it's too late. The government is growing by leaps and bounds and I absolutely refuse to believe, in any way, that it is somehow a good thing.

What are your property rights? Which amendments? Nothing personal against you, but just because you put two words together, that doesn't necessarily make it a thing.
 

EdLongshanks

12 pointer
Nov 16, 2013
18,540
Northern Kentucky
What are your property rights? Which amendments? Nothing personal against you, but just because you put two words together, that doesn't necessarily make it a thing.

The Founding Fathers upheld the economic view of property. They believed that private property ownership, as defined under common law, pre-existed government. The state and federal governments were the mere contractual agents of the people, not sovereign lords over them. All rights, not specifically delegated to the government, remained with the people–including the common-law provisions of private property. Consequently, the constitutional rights regarding free speech, freedom of religion, the right of assembly, and private property rights are all claims that individuals may hold and exercise against the government itself. In brief, private property refers to the rights of owners to use their possessions which are enforceable against all nonowners–even the government.

This is an excerpt I have selected to state what best represents my opinion. I feel that we have given far too much to the government.
 

buckfever

12 pointer
Oct 25, 2002
13,203
Harrods Creek Ky, USA.
KRS 237.110 spells it out IIRC - I'm POSITIVE "you " can find it - it's there and you Know I'd not said it otherwise <rolleyes>

It clearly says unless prohibited by KY Statute OR Fed law carrying past a sign by a CDWL holder- SHALL NOT be a criminal offense - counselor

KRS 237.110 spells it out IIRC - I'm POSITIVE "you " can find it - it's there and you Know I'd not said it otherwise <rolleyes>

It clearly says unless prohibited by KY Statute OR Fed law carrying past a sign by a CDWL holder- SHALL NOT be a criminal offense - counselor

OK, ok, calm down Aceoky.

I read the statute. That's why I quoted it after Manzanita's post.

I was reading the part about "private business enterprise, day care center" as a single reference, as opposed to 2 entirely separate entries. The reason I was confused was because "day care centers" are, for the most part, already "private business enterprises", so it would seem redundant for the legislature to carve out an exception for a day care centers after already carving that out with "private business enterprise". At bottom, I thought the legislature was simply trying to distinguish that the entire provision applied to private day cares as opposed to public ones.
 

Dubya Gee

8 pointer
Apr 10, 2012
882
Snow, KY
The Founding Fathers upheld the economic view of property. They believed that private property ownership, as defined under common law, pre-existed government. The state and federal governments were the mere contractual agents of the people, not sovereign lords over them. All rights, not specifically delegated to the government, remained with the people–including the common-law provisions of private property. Consequently, the constitutional rights regarding free speech, freedom of religion, the right of assembly, and private property rights are all claims that individuals may hold and exercise against the government itself. In brief, private property refers to the rights of owners to use their possessions which are enforceable against all nonowners–even the government.
.

Ok then. Where do you stand on zoning laws and city ordinances? I totally agree with everything you have said here. However, many people get their panties in a twist if their neighbor does anything they don't like with their property, and will try to use ordinances and zoning laws to fight the junk car in the front yard, or a laundry list of other nonsense. I just want to see how far folks are willing to go down this rabbit hole. I think the idea of any municipality or government having the ability to dictate anything you can or can't do (legally) on your own property is hogwash.

Obviously, I'm in the minority about the signs, but the law says I'm legal so I'm ok with that.
 
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