Toby Keith's I love this bar

[buckfever]

Here's the only CCW statute that even comes close to addressing this issue:

KRS 237.115(3): "Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried."

If you're not allowed to open carry a firearm into a private restaurant when you know the owner doesn't permit it, you certainly aren't allowed additional leeway (i.e. you have to get caught) because you are sneaking your gun in there.

 

[Manzanita]

Here's the only CCW statute that even comes close to addressing this issue:

KRS 237.115(3): "Unless otherwise specifically provided by the Kentucky Revised Statutes or applicable federal law, no criminal penalty shall attach to carrying a concealed firearm or other deadly weapon with a permit at any location at which an unconcealed firearm or other deadly weapon may be constitutionally carried."

If you're not allowed to open carry a firearm into a private restaurant when you know the owner doesn't permit it, you certainly aren't allowed additional leeway (i.e. you have to get caught) because you are sneaking your gun in there.

Try KRS 237.110 (17)

 

[possumal]

Many years ago, a business owner could just post a sign that he reserved the right to refuse service to anyone. That is no longer the case. A business owner can set up rules to apply within his business place if they are not in violation of other civil rights and or laws.

 

[buckfever]

Try KRS 237.110 (17)

Unless I'm misreading that, I don't see how that applies to the hypothetical I described. The first part appears to apply to day care centers and the latter half provides protections to folks that have the guns in their private vehicles and/or employees.

Am I missing something there?

Edited to add the text of the statute:

(17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited. Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice and Public Safety Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used by the employee of the cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction. Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer.

 

[Xi Bowhunter]

Many years ago, a business owner could just post a sign that he reserved the right to refuse service to anyone. That is no longer the case. A business owner can set up rules to apply within his business place if they are not in violation of other civil rights and or laws.

Not trying to argue, but if that is the case, how are there gun ranges banning Muslims, and gun stores banning Obama supporters? These two have came up in the news recently.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/28/gun-range-ban-on-muslims-draws-fire/

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwy...banned-obama-supporters-says-business-booming

 

[buckfever]

Not trying to argue, but if that is the case, how are there gun ranges banning Muslims, and gun stores banning Obama supporters? These two have came up in the news recently.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/28/gun-range-ban-on-muslims-draws-fire/

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwy...banned-obama-supporters-says-business-booming

The gun range that banned Muslims will likely be deemed to be acting unconstitutionally and in violation of federal law. You can't discriminate against someone because of their race, religion, gender, ethnic origin, etc. etc. All the Title VII classifications.

The gun shop owner that bans Obama supporters is not discriminating against a suspect or protected class, so his actions are perfectly lawful.

 

[ptbrauch]

Because satire is still permitted.

 

[possumal]

A business owner may set up nearly any rule, but that doesn't mean it will hold up under scrutiny of federal or state regulations. It has to be tested by the courts to see if it is constitutional.

 

[aceoky]

Can you direct me to the law or regulation which makes this a "fact" and NOT your "opinion"?

I'd agree that would likely be true if a CC person walks into a private establishment not knowing about the owner's rule against firearms. However, what if the person carrying has KNOWLEDGE of the ban against firearms? If a CC individual has knowledge that a private business has issued a blanket "no firearms" policy for his/her/its property, and the CC individual proceeds to enter that private property with a firearm against the owner's wishes, why is that not trespassing??? What law/rule states that there is the additional requirement that the owner also ask him to leave????

KRS 511.080(1) (Criminal Trespass) states: "A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the third degree when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises." It seems to me that if the gun carrier knows that the owner does not allow people to enter with a gun and disregards that, he's guilty of "knowingly enter[ing] unlawfully" upon the premises.

Also, suppose, for example, a guy gets drunk and obnoxious at a bar, and the bar bans him for life for being a lout. If the drunk guy comes back the following week and enters the property, does the bar owner have to ask him to leave again and then have the guy refuse before he can charge him with criminal trespass?

You may be right, but I've looked at the Concealed Carry statutes and I can't find any statute that says there can't be trespassing charges against an CC holder unless the private owner first asks him to leave.

KRS 237.110 spells it out IIRC - I'm POSITIVE "you " can find it - it's there and you Know I'd not said it otherwise <rolleyes>

It clearly says unless prohibited by KY Statute OR Fed law carrying past a sign by a CDWL holder- SHALL NOT be a criminal offense - counselor

 

[aceoky]

Unless I'm misreading that, I don't see how that applies to the hypothetical I described. The first part appears to apply to day care centers and the latter half provides protections to folks that have the guns in their private vehicles and/or employees.

Am I missing something there?

Edited to add the text of the statute:

(17) The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS 199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is prohibited. Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice and Public Safety Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used by the employee of the cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction. Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in this subsection by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer.

Now you KNOW

 

[bigpuddin43]

Wether criminal or not. I believe it is hypocritical to knowing carry into a place that you know does not allow it. They have the right to not allow it. You knowingly carrying in there you step on their rights. Then get online and complain how someone is trying to restrict your rights?

 

[aceoky]

Wether criminal or not. I believe it is hypocritical to knowing carry into a place that you know does not allow it. They have the right to not allow it. You knowingly carrying in there you step on their rights. Then get online and complain how someone is trying to restrict your rights?

Thank you for your "Opinion"

I believe it's More hypocritical to pay for a License to carry then be "asked" to NOT carry when a business owner doesn't provide ANY security for my family.......

BTW when was the last time you seen a no gun sign IN KY? Pretty rare I'd say.........LOL


And then (yet again) is the whole some places don't care (at all) but post because they're owned by overseas Corp etc. etc. etc.

I'll repeat

YOU do what you decide- the rest of the Adults will do the same where legal

And really that IS how it Is.........

 

[bigpuddin43]

And that's your opinion. I prefer to believe everyone's rights are equal. And there are plenty of no gun signs in ky. Every bdubs I have been to has one. I would prefer to support the businesses that stand behind my beliefs not try to hide out and support those that don't believe the same as me. Why donate to companies that don't support what you obviously are so passionate about?

 

[aceoky]

And that's your opinion.

I prefer to believe everyone's rights are equal. And there are plenty of no gun signs in ky. Every bdubs I have been to has one. I would prefer to support the businesses that stand behind my beliefs not try to hide out and support those that don't believe the same as me. Why donate to companies that don't support what you obviously are so passionate about?

NO (again) that is the LAW in KY - I have the Right to carry (legally) past a sign- NO reason "to hide out" as you insult by saying- YOU do whatever you want to do - the rest of us will do the same thank you very much

Why donate to companies that don't support what you obviously are so passionate about?

Ummmmm

What Part of - some places post because they are forced to is beyond your level of comprehension?

Should the LOCAL folks suffer by losing YOUR business because some overseas holder of the company they work for makes them post some sign that is Meaningless IN KY???????

I prefer to believe everyone's rights are equal

NO you DO NOT

You keep harping on someone who invites US into their business as legal carrying Citizens "lose our rights to carry" because they don't "like it" (or or forced to post a meaningless sign) Meaning that YOU believe an open to the public businesses "right trump ours" AND KY Law factually does not agree with You PERIOD

Since criminals obey all signs and NO mass shootings happen in posted places (or legal Gun Free Zones) LOL

You refuse to "get it" that is OK by me......YOU do whatever .........

I'm really not going to keep explaining what I've already done perfectly well

YOU do what YOU choose to do

The rest of us WILL do the same.......

 

[EdLongshanks]

NO (again) that is the LAW in KY - I have the Right to carry (legally) past a sign- NO reason "to hide out" as you insult by saying- YOU do whatever you want to do - the rest of us will do the same thank you very much



Ummmmm

What Part of - some places post because they are forced to is beyond your level of comprehension?

Should the LOCAL folks suffer by losing YOUR business because some overseas holder of the company they work for makes them post some sign that is Meaningless IN KY???????

I'm really not going to keep explaining what I've already done perfectly well

YOU do what YOU choose to do

The rest of us WILL do the same.......

You really think a lot of yourself don't you?