The Army's doing it all wrong!

Discussion in 'Community Forum' started by TripleGee, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. TripleGee

    TripleGee 12 pointer

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    I was just thinking that the army is doing things all wrong by recruiting right out of high school. Don't get me wrong, that age is the best physical specimen available. But, what about nerves and drive and determination? I submit that men between early thirties to early fifties or beyond would make the perfect soldier. Which would you rather face; a kid right out of high school or a man whom the world has stomped on many times over??? A kid who's only worried about his next sexual encounter or a man who has been divorced, ahs worried about bills and his family for a decade or two, maybe bankrupt due to company shipping overseas, passed over by the bosses son, was denied entrance into college which could have changed his life because the slot was filled by an Iranian on a free ride, kid killed by a foreign drunk driver, whose president kisses the butt of all of our enemies and the MAN understands the implications, the kid doesn't. And lastly, who would you rather face; an eighteen year old worried about acne or a man who's worried about his Country?
    I would rather face a hundred 18 year olds than any of the potential stone-cold killers on this forum! Motivation wouldn't be a problem would it? Like the guy in the commercial who's getting beat boxing and his coach tells him, "remember when you were ten years old and the kid next to you stole your McDonald's french fries? That's him!" Then he goes out and beats the crap out of his opponent!

    Triplegee
     
  2. Dangermouse

    Dangermouse 6 pointer

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    Your talking about expience. Which as you said someone older has and also something else, they think for themselves. This is not generally viewed as a asset. This is why they like young'ns.
     
  3. keith meador

    keith meador Got the Spotted Fever

    GGG, pretty evident by your post that you never served...
     
  4. They go after the young ones for a reason...so they can break them completely down, then rebuild them the way they want. Do you think a 50 year old man set in his ways is gonna do that...nope. Believe me, I'd much rather tangle with a 40 or 50 year old man than some of the 18-19 year olds out there
     
  5. harpp

    harpp 6 pointer

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    you all obviously haven't met a bunch of the 18 and 19 year old that I have met serving around the world today
     
  6. grouser68

    grouser68 Banned

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    Age/Nerve/Stamina/Physical abilities.............all irrevelant! Training! Training! Training! When it hits the fan, your training takes over!
     
  7. I know im not in the ARMY but AF and im a girl but i was one of them that joined right out of HS at the age of 18. AT that point your life you get out of school and think where is my future going. This is the perfect age for the military to break you down and take all your freedoms away and everything that you are used to and make you grow up QUICK. YOu learn to do things on your own without your parents there and learn not to take things for granted. I agree with the other post about when you get older being set in ur ways. THere is no way know that i would ever go back now to boot camp mentality at the age im at. The way they yell at you and order you around i dont think many older men would take aliking to that at all and rebel probably. EVEN though when you deploy to the desert like this you get ur freedoms stripped away again. I see all of these young men/women dying for our country over here and it breaks my heart. SO next time you see a military person out there PLEASE thank them for what they do. THEY sacrifice soo much for us to be be able to live like we do in the states. WHEn we have a fallen comrade ceremony here at BAGRAM it breaks my heart knowing this person gave his/her all for us and the body is getting flown home to his family and they will never be able to see him/her alive again. JUST very sad. People take alot for granted in the US until they visit a place like this and see how good we actualy have it.

    MAGS
     
  8. rme hunter

    rme hunter 8 pointer

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    GGG I know that you didn't post this to offend anyone but you are treading on thin ice. I was that kid that joined just out of high school and as I moved through the ranks I had several people that worked below me that we much older and more experienced in life. But I was more experienced in the army and that was all that mattered. And the older soldiers while not worried about acne as you stated are worried about other things like wife and kids that the younger ones were not. In addition the physical requirements are to much for the average adult over 40 or so years old.
     
  9. TripleGee

    TripleGee 12 pointer

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    I was trying to make a different point.

    Sorry to offend the youngsters, I should have left them out of it. But, straight out of high school and you're ready mentally to shoot back? With no training, Please....I was wanting to focus on the mindset of many middle?aged men who've been through the life wringer so to speak. The army should harness the anger and frustration, not to mention the savvy mindedness to its' benefit. I may be the only one, but there came a time some time ago when I had had enough. Enough of the unfairness of how "easy" criminals are treated especially of capital crimes. Most all of us know the difference between right and wrong. We choose to live according to the laws of our country. My attitude is the same as that of Texas. They have, as Ron White calls it, an express lane for the death penalty. I would personally include more crimes under the death penalty clause. Do any of you feel anger when you hear of the horridness going on around us? Do any of you automatically think, "take em out and shoot em'? Insensitive? yeah i am to a certain degree to some liberal mindeds.
    I'm sure I'm not alone. If I am, perhaps I need counseling. Think if I had jury duty!
    I know of two guys in our office who have the mindset I'm talking about. "Bill" is probably the smallest guy in our office but, he is by far the deadliest. The bigger guys haven't a clue. Most big guys don't as they think their size makes any difference. When the topic comes up about "who's the baddest" I always offer up "BIll" and am scoffed at. I'm not talking about boxing here or fighting like they are, my answer is for a man who will not stop until he has killed you and then may not stop after that while he abuses your corpse in his unbridled rage. He will never start it, but he will definitely finish it. He has shared some of the things he has been put through and it's tough. He is also very nice. That's the kind to watch out for. He avoids confrontation as he is aware about his rage. He will talk about these things with me as he "trusts" me in the understanding and comprehension of his feelings. I also have to end the talks when I see he's getting upset, so I mention it to him and he apologizes of course. Of course he shouldn't. There are times when I feel like "Bill". I guess life isolates us somewhat until it's a you against the world thing and you don't care about the world. The world being someone who's seriously messing with your life.
    It's this type of mindset that I'm trying to convey in a pretty pitiful way I might add.

    Meador and others. I know some of you will comment on the shooting back part. Yeah, I could. I've seriously been shot at twice with the intention of having bodily harm done to me. Once, at age seventeen from a person with a pistol in the middle of the night in Bell county. I ran crying and almost crapped my pants. The other was from a bunch, five or so, drunks with shotguns while I was fishing in a small pond at a shooting club. yeah, they STARTED with birdshot and quickly switched to higher power shot as I used the trolling motor to get out of range. How do I know? The pellets hit harder farther away and the sound. By the way, do some of you know that unique sound that shotguns make when aimed right at you? It's a difference in compression waves I think. Only a few pellets stuck in my skin, two in the side of my head (temple).
    Why didn't i leave? I had to dock right below the range! Had to wait them out. I DO remember my mindset that night and was wishing for my 30-06 badly! I actually DID think what I would do and that involved shooting into the group and not at any one person as they were all to blame. I had to wait two hours, hiding behind an Island,for them to leave and then I loaded in the dark unsure if they were still there or not.

    I had forgotten about all this until this post tonight. I'm actually still pissed to a certain degree about it.
     
  10. keith meador

    keith meador Got the Spotted Fever



    Disturbing post there GGG. I served in the military, but my life goal was never to pull the trigger on another human. If I were put in that situation, yes, without a doubt I would have. Your situation seems to be a bit different. You speak of frustration, anger, and fear.

    Military personnel react to situations based on training they have recieved. A kid right out of high school or a man age 30 does not matter. The military will train you how to react to situations. You on the other hand speak of drunks with shotguns, and a guy with a pistol in the dark. You had no training, so you reacted with fight or flight. That is in each and every one of us. The military trains you how to react, and yes, there are situations where you actually remove yourself from conflict (flight) to better your own situation, and allow yourself the opportunity to defend or assault depending on available cover, manuverability, assets available, and reinforcements if available. Again, totally separate from your situation.


    The test of time. When I joined, I did what I was told, and did what I was trained to do. Age has no bearing on training. If you are capable of learning, and accept training, you are on equal ground with any soldier, any age.
     
  11. grouser68

    grouser68 Banned

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    Could'nt have said it better myself Keith! Believe me, I really could'nt!:D Again.......Training, Training, Training!
     
  12. TripleGee

    TripleGee 12 pointer

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    Again guys, I'm not talking about training! I'm talking about a mindset however disturbing it may be. You seem to be slightly offended as if I'm attacking or downing the army or something and offer up training as a defense. Don't do that! It ain't that of which I'm talking. I'm talking about pent up rage. Unfettered rage and anger with no restraints! Even worse than I can explain it here. A lifetime of being a nice, law abiding citizen and then being capable of being "triggered" by something and it all comes out. If the Army could harness this and these feelings and turning them loose on an enemy. Not Bill Murray's "army trainin' sir!".
     
  13. keith meador

    keith meador Got the Spotted Fever


    You sound like you need to see a shrink. May I suggest you go to one that has had "training";)
     
  14. TripleGee

    TripleGee 12 pointer

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    Here's what I'm sort of talking about.

    Meador, imagine you and Grouser at a wing ding thing along with "Bill" or someone like "Bill". You two, being bigger guys, start messing with "Bill" and say you knock his beer out of his hand. He apologizes like it was his fault and gives you this look and moves off somewhere away from you. But, you two won't quit and take his avoidance as cowardice. So, you start messing with him again and again until you get HIS attention. "Bill" asks you to please leave him alone to which you just laugh and say something derogatory about his family or say his daughters since we're doing a hypothetical thing here. Once you mention "Bill's" daughters, he gets real quiet and you see something go "click" in his eyes. He stands up and one of you says something like, "what do you think you're going to do about it Puss?" Then "Bill" lets loose and soon you realize that you aren't in a fight, you are in a fight for YOUR life. Because you didn't know "BIll" was at that moment not in his mind and was not trying to win a fight. No, "BIll" is now in an intense rage and you no longer matter, you are going to die and there's nothing you and Grouser will be able to do about it without firearms. Your army training hasn't prepared you for an enraged killer with a Jui-Jitsu blackbelt, intense strength and speed, cold calculating mind (which he's not using at the moment), and 25 years of "being nice" and backing down from confrontation. It has now been unleashed upon YOU! You have no time to mount any offense and are backpeddling trying to turn and flee but, to turn means you expose your back and neck to "BIll" and HE knows what to do then! Grouser is down from turning and "BIll" broke his neck using his hand as a club and striking down as hard as rage allows. He'll get back to him later. Then, you trip over a root or some object and go down and "BIll" is on you immediately. After the rock hits your temple the second time, you no longer care about running, fear, or anything else as it all seems so distant..."Bill's" incoherent sobbing and screaming fades out and so do you! "Bill" continues long after you and Grouser are dead and your bodies resemble mangled road kill. Your training was inconsequential.
    "BIll" exists, and so does that mindset of which I speak. Not training...
     
  15. TripleGee

    TripleGee 12 pointer

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    I'll admit it.

    I do need a shrink.
     

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