Survey says,!!!!!! Calendar ducks are a real thing.

hunt-4-life21

12 pointer
Sep 26, 2007
3,723
Butler Co.
Sorry to come to this thread late. I have a couple comments on this to maybe help clarify.

6) To address the comments on snow goose seasons. Each season ~150 people apply for Snow Goose permits. The decision was made that far more people were benefitted by having 2 weeks in February. In a recent survey of goose hunters, more than 5,000 hunters (mostly in central Kentucky) have participated in goose hunts in February. Those days aren't there hoping migrants will return...they are there to benefit those hunting local Canadas. As you can see, far more people benefit from Feb dark goose hunting.

7) To the idea of creating a zone to hunt snow geese I would say, Kentucky has been making an effort to get rid of zones and simplify regulations. How would you draw a line for this? 50% of the snow goose permits issued are in the Henderson area. I can promise you, the majority of folks in that area wouldn't want to lose their Feb dark goose days. I sounds easy to just create a zone but it is not.

8) Special seasons create problems for Snow goose Conservation order seasons. You can not have any season (other than falconry) open during Conservation order seasons. So regulations would have to be created to close the snow goose season during youth/veterans days. More regulatory complexity.
Interesting comments and I respect them. You sound like you know what you're talking about in the previous comments and mention a lot of stuff I didn't know (especially the wood duck data).

The reason only 150 people apply for a snow goose permit is because they are gone by the time season comes in. And when I say season, I mean conservation season. I actually asked some guys I know that hunt henderson which they would rather have; snow goose conservation start after youth season or their dark geese days. They replied snow geese, for sure. Pandas aren't coming unless it's a rare year. That's an extremely small sample size, I know, but the days where you sat and looked north waiting on migrator canadas are over.

You mentioned hunting local canadas in central KY during these final 2 weeks. You can hunt local canada's from Sempt. 16-30th, and from Thanksgiving til January 31st. How many more days do you want? Your hunting the most educated bird in the state by late January. They know where they are safe and where they are not. 2 weeks into February won't change that.

Kentucky is not a huge state but east to west it varies a great deal. The west end has more waterfowl. Plain and simple. Shouldn't you cater more to where the birds are? If what you're saying is true about the conservation order regulations, I'd be in favor of opening after the youth/veteran days. And the dark goose guys could get a few extra days between the end of duck season and the youth weekend.
 

HeadedWest

10 pointer
Nov 22, 2016
1,382
Interesting comments and I respect them. You sound like you know what you're talking about in the previous comments and mention a lot of stuff I didn't know (especially the wood duck data).

The reason only 150 people apply for a snow goose permit is because they are gone by the time season comes in. And when I say season, I mean conservation season. I actually asked some guys I know that hunt henderson which they would rather have; snow goose conservation start after youth season or their dark geese days. They replied snow geese, for sure. Pandas aren't coming unless it's a rare year. That's an extremely small sample size, I know, but the days where you sat and looked north waiting on migrator canadas are over.

You mentioned hunting local canadas in central KY during these final 2 weeks. You can hunt local canada's from Sempt. 16-30th, and from Thanksgiving til January 31st. How many more days do you want? Your hunting the most educated bird in the state by late January. They know where they are safe and where they are not. 2 weeks into February won't change that.

Kentucky is not a huge state but east to west it varies a great deal. The west end has more waterfowl. Plain and simple. Shouldn't you cater more to where the birds are? If what you're saying is true about the conservation order regulations, I'd be in favor of opening after the youth/veteran days. And the dark goose guys could get a few extra days between the end of duck season and the youth weekend.
Gonna go out on a limb and say Downeaster is John Brunjes.
 

DH13

12 pointer
Jan 13, 2012
8,947
Shelby county
Myself and my group hunt some days in February for Geese here in central Ky. Not many local Geese at all. Usually what few migraters we get then. We dont see many Snow Geese at all and dont travel west to hunt them. We dont hunt the early September Goose season. Usually Dove WoodDuck and working hay then.
Id like to see Ducks run thru February with the Goose season the 15th. We have Ducks then. Migraters.
Didnt know Ky had a Veterans hunt. If so when is it?
 

HuntressOfLight

12 pointer
Nov 23, 2019
11,782
Guarding my lovely bluebirds
Myself and my group hunt some days in February for Geese here in central Ky. Not many local Geese at all. Usually what few migraters we get then. We dont see many Snow Geese at all and dont travel west to hunt them. We dont hunt the early September Goose season. Usually Dove WoodDuck and working hay then.
Id like to see Ducks run thru February with the Goose season the 15th. We have Ducks then. Migraters.
Didnt know Ky had a Veterans hunt. If so when is it?

Geese have been flying around and honking up storms out this way of late; so much so, that I have not bothered with regular updates to My Lovely Geese thread.

Being that I failed to find anything useful upon the KDFWR Website, such as the following from my own state:


I contacted the KDFWR Migratory Bird Biologist, Mr. Wes Little, in order to learn the reasoning and elaborating that I was rather offended by such. After having politely interrogated the extremely nice man regarding all for approximately fifteen minutes, with him having mentioned that some of my questions were above his pay grade, he kindly transferred me to KDFWR Commissioner, Mr. Rich Storm, to which I am currently awaiting a return call, so as to learn the precise reasoning behind the prolonged delay in vote by the Kentucky General Assembly. Meanwhile, the proposed dates, which are expected to be approved, are currently set for two Sundays as follows:

20/11/2022
12/02/2022
 
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HeadedWest

10 pointer
Nov 22, 2016
1,382
Are you implying that game and fish read this garbage.

Not implying, stating.

No offense to @Downeaster but the survey questions used to justify stakeholder wants are skewed towards whatever fish and wildlife’s agenda is. Anyone with critical thinking ability can see that. If results are shown in a way that the decision makers can see the line of thought, then I would be willing to take that comment back, but the reality is that these survey results/questions are presented in a misleading way.

Also in my opinion, Fish and wildlife has taken so much shit from every Ricky coming and going, that the callousness has turned to total disregard of all input from their stakeholders.

They watch these sites, whether for information, current trends or purely entertainment.

I have one request-treat the surveys like the scientific data it’s supposed to be…be consistent…be thorough…and quit with the roadkill/comedy. While it is funny, it shows that the those compiling/conducting the surveys treat it as a joke. I wasted two good weekends at Taylorsville and never saw a duck you assholes.
 

hunt-4-life21

12 pointer
Sep 26, 2007
3,723
Butler Co.
Gonna go out on a limb and say Downeaster is John Brunjes.
If it is, awesome. Welcome John. I'm glad he can read input and back it up with fed regulations as to what they can do. DH13 just said he wished he could hunt ducks in February and it's obvious he didn't read John's post because in the post it says that is not possible within the federal regulations.

I think the more important thing I take away from John's post is that the federal regulations are as dumb as we thought. If you can't have splits because you have zones, that's a dumb rule. We are entering a new age in waterfowl. Rest is going to be key and splits are the only way to make that happen.
 

HeadedWest

10 pointer
Nov 22, 2016
1,382
If it is, awesome. Welcome John. I'm glad he can read input and back it up with fed regulations as to what they can do. DH13 just said he wished he could hunt ducks in February and it's obvious he didn't read John's post because in the post it says that is not possible within the federal regulations.

If you can't have splits because you have zones, that's a dumb rule.

Agree on the top…

DH13 may not have good reading comprehension but he’s a duck-man no doubt.

I don’t know that it’s John so maybe calling him by name is premature. LOL.

…now to that last part quoted above…WTF are you talking about? You gotta get out more if you think that’s true.
 

HuntressOfLight

12 pointer
Nov 23, 2019
11,782
Guarding my lovely bluebirds
...John's post because in the post it says that is not possible within the federal regulations.

If I correctly understood and recall, Mr. Little stated that the States must comply with USFWR, and that its regulations changed only within the past few years, making such special hunts now possible. Kentucky was watching a few other states implement all, since then, before trying to do so, itself. I am under the impression all is at the legal verbiage document stage, but which entity is currently sitting upon such like a hen within a hen house, I have yet to discern.
 
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hunt-4-life21

12 pointer
Sep 26, 2007
3,723
Butler Co.
…now to that last part quoted above…WTF are you talking about? You gotta get out more if you think that’s true.
That was a reply to this from Downeaters post:

3) Kentucky has 2 zones for ducks (East and West). In a state with 2 zones, the USFWS allows the state to have two season segments with one split. So for us, having 3 days at Halloween was not an option without giving up the Thanksgiving segment or removing our zones.
 

Downeaster

Spike
Oct 13, 2006
67
Frankfort
federal regulations are as dumb as we thought. If you can't have splits because you have zones, that's a dumb rule. We are entering a new age in waterfowl. Rest is going to be key and splits are the only way to make that happen.

I think I disagree with you on this. Zones create more pressure on ducks than almost anything I can think of. States in the MF are supposed to have a 60 day hunting season. Look at IL to our north. Their duck season starts October 23 (North Zone) and ends January 25(South zone). 94 days....That is A LOT of pressure. That's excluding 17 days of teal season in Sept. Not picking on them...they are following the rules as do many other states. The splits reduction penalizes a state for having zones. Can you imagine now putting split seasons in those zones. It's not a dumb rule...at least to me.

Huntress:

You are correct. The USFWS added the opportunity for states to have a "Special Waterfowl Season" for veterans a couple years ago (We have had a youth special season for a number of years). That Federal rule allows 2 youth and 2 veterans days. The KDFWR commission supported the creation of a special Veterans Season and a change to the youth season. They will now be paired in weekends bookending the duck season. The first weekend will be the Saturday/Sunday before Thanksgiving (Kids Sat and Vets Sunday). The second weekend will be the second weekend in February. It is hoped that this will go into effect for the 2022-2023 season. The regulatory process is a long one and regulations have to be final with the Kentucky legislature before they can be implemented. We should know by late summer if it will happen or not.
 

bigpuddin43

12 pointer
Feb 21, 2007
5,315
bucktown
I think I disagree with you on this. Zones create more pressure on ducks than almost anything I can think of. States in the MF are supposed to have a 60 day hunting season. Look at IL to our north. Their duck season starts October 23 (North Zone) and ends January 25(South zone). 94 days....That is A LOT of pressure. That's excluding 17 days of teal season in Sept. Not picking on them...they are following the rules as do many other states. The splits reduction penalizes a state for having zones. Can you imagine now putting split seasons in those zones. It's not a dumb rule...at least to me.

Huntress:

You are correct. The USFWS added the opportunity for states to have a "Special Waterfowl Season" for veterans a couple years ago (We have had a youth special season for a number of years). That Federal rule allows 2 youth and 2 veterans days. The KDFWR commission supported the creation of a special Veterans Season and a change to the youth season. They will now be paired in weekends bookending the duck season. The first weekend will be the Saturday/Sunday before Thanksgiving (Kids Sat and Vets Sunday). The second weekend will be the second weekend in February. It is hoped that this will go into effect for the 2022-2023 season. The regulatory process is a long one and regulations have to be final with the Kentucky legislature before they can be implemented. We should know by late summer if it will happen or not.
I understand the reasoning but this setup makes it very difficult for those with kids that choose to travel for youth seasons to get them the best opportunities. by splitting the veteran and youth days how will that work for a youth to draw a blind at ballard. before they could draw and have two days to travel to hunt now that youth only gets one day making traveling harder for one day of hunting. why not have a weekend for veterans and a weekend for youth so that those that choose to take advantage of the better chances in western ky makes a weekend trip worth it? will youth be drawn for both youth days and have to travel both weekends to get their two days of hunting? Same with veterans?
 

hunt-4-life21

12 pointer
Sep 26, 2007
3,723
Butler Co.
I think I disagree with you on this. Zones create more pressure on ducks than almost anything I can think of. States in the MF are supposed to have a 60 day hunting season. Look at IL to our north. Their duck season starts October 23 (North Zone) and ends January 25(South zone). 94 days....That is A LOT of pressure. That's excluding 17 days of teal season in Sept. Not picking on them...they are following the rules as do many other states. The splits reduction penalizes a state for having zones. Can you imagine now putting split seasons in those zones. It's not a dumb rule...at least to me.
I don't think I was clear on my explanation. My fault...I'll try to explain better. I can see why states (like Illinois) have 3 zones. Indiana has (2? or maybe 3). Missouri has 3. I understand why it would be hard to implement splits with a state with that many zones. My point is that Kentucky has the same structure across the state (except for the east/west youth and veteran weekend). You already mentioned this going away after the next few years.

My point is we need splits for rest. Its been mentioned countless times that a 45 day season will be considered. Maybe not in our state but at the federal level. (Feds haven't flown Canada in 2 years but that's a separate post). If we go to a 45 days season, I hope splits allow for more rest time and not just lump those days together. For a 60 day season, really the only thing that could be argued in adding is a late October season, but you mentioned that may put us over the wood duck fatality rate.
 

HuntressOfLight

12 pointer
Nov 23, 2019
11,782
Guarding my lovely bluebirds
I think I disagree with you on this. Zones create more pressure on ducks than almost anything I can think of. States in the MF are supposed to have a 60 day hunting season. Look at IL to our north. Their duck season starts October 23 (North Zone) and ends January 25(South zone). 94 days....That is A LOT of pressure. That's excluding 17 days of teal season in Sept. Not picking on them...they are following the rules as do many other states. The splits reduction penalizes a state for having zones. Can you imagine now putting split seasons in those zones. It's not a dumb rule...at least to me.

Huntress:

You are correct. The USFWS added the opportunity for states to have a "Special Waterfowl Season" for veterans a couple years ago (We have had a youth special season for a number of years). That Federal rule allows 2 youth and 2 veterans days. The KDFWR commission supported the creation of a special Veterans Season and a change to the youth season. They will now be paired in weekends bookending the duck season. The first weekend will be the Saturday/Sunday before Thanksgiving (Kids Sat and Vets Sunday). The second weekend will be the second weekend in February. It is hoped that this will go into effect for the 2022-2023 season. The regulatory process is a long one and regulations have to be final with the Kentucky legislature before they can be implemented. We should know by late summer if it will happen or not.

Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify all, and have yourself a lovely week.
 


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