Strader Lawsuit

slickhead slayer

12 pointer
Nov 14, 2005
6,716
VP OF ADMIN Development
Wait, so with Gassett's company, do you take them to check stations, or do you have to telecheck the deer?

Can someone give me directions to the Jon Gassett WMA?

What's his report-a-poacher number, or how else do I get in contact with his company's CO's?

I keep looking, but I don't see how many elk his company has reintroduced. Anyone know how to get into his draw?

Oh wait, isn't his company just a consulting company?

Great post. Listing all the things Gassets company doesn't compete with KYDFW on. Now how about listing all the things Gassets company does that KYDFW also does?
 

ribsplitter

Cyber-Hunter
Jan 19, 2004
3,627
Greenup, ky, USA.
Everyone here knows it was wrong and a conflict and everyone here knew it would get swept under the rug just like everything else that goes on in this crap hole state. Ive learned that you can either bitch and worry and work yourself into a frenzy about it and still get the same end result or just forget about all of them and what they do and do your own thing and have fun and enjoy yourself . I pick plan B.
 

aceoky

12 pointer
Jul 14, 2003
13,494
W KY
Bingo. Not sure why 95% of the people on here take sides based on who is involved instead of the merits of the situation. Plenty of stink in this one to go around.

And here I thought we were discussing Strader's bogus suit against the KDFWR , now it's "taking sides" and a whole huge list of "other things" not even related to the suit - Wow!

I'm in another camp entirely, I'm perplexed how some don't see the stupidity in his filing and costing the Kentucky sportsmen/women $$$ in a futile attempt to boost his ego and beat his chest once again at OUR expense! Oh well
 

daking

12 pointer
Dec 29, 2004
2,604
Folks, I can't say with 100% assurance but given Jon's advertising and the fact that the state ethics commission approved his business that he's a) within the guidelines of State government, b) doing the work he does in states other than Kentucky where folks cannot access the services of his employer and c) has amassed the education and equipment he uses in both his enterprises on his own nickle. If what my fairly careful observations reveal is correct, he would not likely be competing with his employer. As to making or accepting the odd call on company time, let's all examine our collective souls. If someone goofs off at work for ten minutes discussing a football game, their bowling scores, the size of the deer recorded on their trail cam or any one of a thousand other off-work subjects, are they guilty of shorting their employer? I guess in the most minute way they are, but I've never worked for anyone or had anyone work for me that did their job but took the odd call at work or spent some valuable time discussing things not job related. I believe that most employers understand that a changeup (albeit a small one that comes at an appropriate time) is good for morale and the psyche. If it weren't , why would employers sponsor softball leagues, youth sports and the like? If Jon is acting in this fashion (and judging from the work product of the department he is), then if he takes the odd phone call or considers the pond health of a client in say Tennessee for ten minutes between meetings, where's the wrong? It seems that because he spends that down time doing something that he loves, that benefits him and makes him the odd dollar, maybe he's just using that bit of goof off time to an enjoyable diversion for him. Of course if he's wantonly abandoning his job to collect a second paycheck, that's a problem, but the rules are not as rigid as those of mathematics. I'd say that much like everyone here, I can only decide on what I've learned and at this point and in the absence of serious substantiated proof to the contrary, I think everyone (including those with a perceived ax to grind) should be given the benefit of the doubt. We have before us an opportunity to heal some rifts, develop relationships that work for a common good and to free ourselves of some anger that hurts us worse than the object of our anger. As someone who has been given the remarkable gift of a second chance to live, I know which path I'm taking and I'll humbly submit that it has taken a lot of weight off my shoulders. I hope that you'll consider that before you become too virulent about anything.

Just my two cents. I just feel fortunate that in a couple of days, I can sit in the sun, wet a line in a friendly pond and join my friends and family doing the stuff we all love. Life is bigger than the last thing that irritated me.

T
 

JDMiller

12 pointer
Jun 12, 2005
10,838
" Between the Rivers "
The problem is, you arent going to know it. If your electricians go to a call and they also own an electrical business on the side, there is way too much enticement there to tell customers that they can do it on the side much cheaper. Employees get sued every day in every industry for those acts.
Most employee agreements in the service industry prevent doing the exact same work.

SS.... not commenting on Gassett / Strader anymore ....and no disrespect intended.... but with skilled trades (HVAC, Electric) your using as examples ... you dont know what your saying.

In KY....using your examples... to be in business / advertise yourself as a electrical, HVAC, plumbing contractor.... you or someone in your employment has to hold a "master license"...and then in most circumstances you or someone else within your employment doing the work has to hold a "journeyman license". Then in the fine print of things....others you employ not licensed as " Master or Journeyman" may be required to be licensed "apprentices".

To qualify for testing each requires steps & years working under / signing off under the direction of specific license ....which most at minimum is 2 years at each level.

Which...speaking as a licensed master & journeyman plumber / boiler contractor.... you work 2 years as an apprentice under a Journeyman...to qualify & test to be a Journeyman. Then as a Journeyman....you work 2 years under direct supervision of a Master... to qualify & test for a Master license. After you receive Master status...then you can legally in Ky go into a business for yourself.

My point is..... the system is set up in a manner to have to work for someone to go into business for yourself...and most situations you build credentials, reputation & business the whole time there.

So... it's not uncommon for a trade type business to have its employees "moonlighting" or starting their own side business while working for you. Fact is... it's inheritantly supported and the price that exist to have qualified & trained employees. The system is just set up that the only way to get started on your own... is through someone elses business. I will also add... specifically... I know of no contractors big or small who use signed employee agreements or compete contracts at time of hire. You either cut it...or you dont and will be looking for another job.

Also as mentioned.... good working relationships with former employees on their own now... can attain you business. If your covered up...reccommend them. Unless it was bad blood involved ...they will do the same in return.

Contracting trades.... resembles nothing like sales or the manufacturing industry.
 

mike_b

8 pointer
Aug 8, 2010
869
Ledbetter
Did the employee sign a non-compete? Is this employee actively recruiting customers that I do business with?

Ky is at-will / right to work. But you can't really compete with the commonwealth. It's hard to imagine how being the commissioner over wildlife for a state agency isn't in conflict with his duties if he has a financial gain from private wildlife consulting due to decisions made in his office. Conversely, his position shouldn't affect his ability to be a private pilot, which he is.

I'm not versed well enough but the revelations were enough that in 2010 Gassett was refused by the ky legislature to pay for his legal defense and the case was referred to the AG's office for investigation.
 

aceoky

12 pointer
Jul 14, 2003
13,494
W KY
Ky is an at will (not right to work state)

I think you mean ALLEGATIONS (not revelations) and do tell HOW did the investigation turn out? IF I accuse you of something but offer no credible proof and you don't go to jail much less lose your job, what does that tell most folks?

BTW it's already been mentioned but bears repeating Dr. Gassett had an AG opinion on his business long before any of the allegations were made , most folks should realize based on that alone it's time to find another axe to grind, that dog isn't going to hunt . While it is clear some don't like it, none of you are the Ky AG who has made it clear there is nothing illegal about his actions on this front. While I fully expect for some to ignore that and continue to pound on the dead horse it will still remain what it is.

Like many of us stated when Strader filed , it was bogus and an attempt once more to push KDFWR and Jon around to do HIS bidding and inflate his ego even more; with much beating of his chest (but notice he's not updated to say his case was tossed out by the Fed Judge) AT OUR EXPENSE (that is every sportsman/woman in Ky and everyone OOS who comes here to hunt/fish/boat etc. ) Strader had a great thing going but couldn't help himself it seems, sometimes it is wise to not make bigger waves (especially when you were certainly warned not to do so)There is no evidence that KDFWR forced Strader to cancel his Expo, sure he tried to blame them, but it was his decision and he alone bears the consequences of his own foolish actions including what lead up to KDFWR pulling the help they'd always given him, as promised to him by the KDFWR if he kept trashing the KDFWR. How anyone can find fault with someone keeping their word , giving Strader the option of behaving or losing support, is beyond me. Strader "thought " he was SO important and "big and popular" felt it was a bluff and got fooled, THEN tried to make $ from US- OUR Dept. that is the reality of the whole thing.

Our economy is in the toilet , a "ton" of things there are good reason to be 'up in arms ' about yet many want to try to make a mountain out of a pimple- outstanding!
 

slickhead slayer

12 pointer
Nov 14, 2005
6,716
VP OF ADMIN Development
SS.... not commenting on Gassett / Strader anymore ....and no disrespect intended.... but with skilled trades (HVAC, Electric) your using as examples ... you dont know what your saying.

In KY....using your examples... to be in business / advertise yourself as a electrical, HVAC, plumbing contractor.... you or someone in your employment has to hold a "master license"...and then in most circumstances you or someone else within your employment doing the work has to hold a "journeyman license". Then in the fine print of things....others you employ not licensed as " Master or Journeyman" may be required to be licensed "apprentices".

To qualify for testing each requires steps & years working under / signing off under the direction of specific license ....which most at minimum is 2 years at each level.

Which...speaking as a licensed master & journeyman plumber / boiler contractor.... you work 2 years as an apprentice under a Journeyman...to qualify & test to be a Journeyman. Then as a Journeyman....you work 2 years under direct supervision of a Master... to qualify & test for a Master license. After you receive Master status...then you can legally in Ky go into a business for yourself.

My point is..... the system is set up in a manner to have to work for someone to go into business for yourself...and most situations you build credentials, reputation & business the whole time there.

So... it's not uncommon for a trade type business to have its employees "moonlighting" or starting their own side business while working for you. Fact is... it's inheritantly supported and the price that exist to have qualified & trained employees. The system is just set up that the only way to get started on your own... is through someone elses business. I will also add... specifically... I know of no contractors big or small who use signed employee agreements or compete contracts at time of hire. You either cut it...or you dont and will be looking for another job.

Also as mentioned.... good working relationships with former employees on their own now... can attain you business. If your covered up...reccommend them. Unless it was bad blood involved ...they will do the same in return.

Contracting trades.... resembles nothing like sales or the manufacturing industry.

Jd, I won't go into a long tirade. But I do know what I am talking about. I happen to own a HVAC, Plumbing and Electrical company with 33 employees. As far as you not knowing any contractors who have employment contracts. I am in the industry and don't know any that don't.
Your assumption that moonlighters comply with the law is where you are off track. Here in Jefferson co we now have to pull permits on every single job. Over half the companies don't even pull permits. I have yet to ever see a state official shut anyone down for not pulling permits, not having an up to date master, etc.
Thanks for the lesson though.
 
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slickhead slayer

12 pointer
Nov 14, 2005
6,716
VP OF ADMIN Development
And here I thought we were discussing Strader's bogus suit against the KDFWR , now it's "taking sides" and a whole huge list of "other things" not even related to the suit - Wow!

I'm in another camp entirely, I'm perplexed how some don't see the stupidity in his filing and costing the Kentucky sportsmen/women $$$ in a futile attempt to boost his ego and beat his chest once again at OUR expense! Oh well

My point Ace is that there are a handfull of you that would take the departments side no matter. No offense but you have zero credibility in this instance. You have zero chance of being unbiased in anything to do with the department, especially when Strader is involved.
I happen to agree with you that it's a silly lawsuit. I also know for a fact that Gassett used his position to try and hurt Strader. It was the first year KYDFW didn't work his show, and it was also the first year KYDFW checked all the vendor permits. Hell they never checked the vendor permits when they actually worked the show, now all of a sudden they want to check all the vendor permits, holding up the show and not letting the guy with the deer to exhibit until he went to his car and provided documentation.
It was just two guys in a pissing contest, still trying to out do each other. I don't really care either way, but to act like Gassett wasn't trying to get his digs in is just silly.
I care mostly about the commisoner tags, all this other stuff is petty playground stuff IMHO.
 

aceoky

12 pointer
Jul 14, 2003
13,494
W KY
You have zero credibility LOL (I'm sure you don't realize how silly this sounds) see That "could" really hurt my feelings IF I gave a hairy rat's hind end about what some think about me, especially those who have never even talked to me , much less met me...


I never said Gassett "didn't try to get his digs in" read what I DID say again, YOU , me or anyone else who warned Strader to stop what he was doing or we'd stop our support of him and his show I expect would have kept our word, the difference is YOU have an issue with it, I agree with it. Like I already clearly stated Strader has NO one but Strader to blame, no amount of spin or crying politics changes this reality

As for my supporting the KDFWR , I sure do and don't expect to see me apologize about that, I don't think it's perfect nor the folks running it ARE perfect either I also Know a "witch hunt" when it's clearly going on and there are at least as many of you folks who think the KDFWR does nothing right and are constantly making silly accusations that have to this point never amounted to the proverbial hill of beans - I DO happen to feel all things considered we could be MUCH worse off (when compared "side-by side" with many states with stupid regulations which ARE IMO ) again that is MY stance and opinion Only - which BTW I'm just as entitled to as anyone else is to theirs... ;)

It is No "secret" how I feel about Strader (and for very good reasons) and his actions against sportsmen/women. From his fighting muzzle loader season (then once it passed despite his actions and lies buying an inline and bragging about using it on his radio show)

Also let us never forget his going on radio claiming the KDFWR had not filed with the LRC , when the TRUTH was they had filed well over a month PRIOR to Strader's show......(anyone really want to try to defend such actions?)to his getting into bed with a Captive Deer Farmer and pushing for SB 211 on his website and programs which would have taken control of OUR resources away from biologists/sportsmen/women and handed them over to politicians- something I fully intend to fight any time it comes up. I have seen the results first - hand of states who let politics run things instead of those who actually know the situations and what to do about them.

Strader has a huge ego , he's not the "expert" he THINKS that he is and does not speak for most sportsmen/women in KY despite his constantly stating otherwise. He tries to force the KDFWR to make decisions he wants made which go against a team of biologists and actually expects everyone to "just believe he is always right" LOL

That doesn't change my ability to see what was going on, then or now for that matter, the fact is HE cost US $$ in order to stroke his ego.....and he hasn't bothered to even update his website showing his loss.....
 
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slickhead slayer

12 pointer
Nov 14, 2005
6,716
VP OF ADMIN Development
to his getting into bed with a Captive Deer Farmer and pushing for SB 211 on his website and programs which would have taken control of OUR resources away from biologists/sportsmen/women and handed them over to politicians- something I fully intend to fight any time it comes up. I have seen the results first - hand of states who let politics run things instead of those who actually know the situations and what to do about them.

.....

Uhhhhhhhh false. The person and people who have caused the biggest risk to KYDFW being run by legislatures are the ONES IN POWER RIGHT NOW. Never have we seen the legislature HAVE to get involved because of widespread unethical conduct like we have this past year. And while many of us WERE fighting that risk, you were in your normal position inside gassets back side.
So PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE spare me the rant about how you will fight to the death if the risk of KYDFW being run by the legislature arises. It ALREADY happened and we KNOW who's side you took, the side that caused this risk.
That's my point, you pick sides based on who is on each side, not the content of what each side presents.
 

aceoky

12 pointer
Jul 14, 2003
13,494
W KY
It is not wrong and you know it, even worse you know that I and most of us here know it also. "The people in power right now" got Lou's politicians to draft SB 211 and YOU dare bring my credibility into question LOL - WOW THAT is where this whole thing began, I remember it VERY well indeed.

Strader couldn't get his way so he climbed into bed with Lou and his politicians and backed SB 211 = FACT (not opinion and not speculation) ONLY since then did anything else "develop" and some may wonder how that is related. Strader said on his show the KDFWR failed to file with the LRC which was also 100% false and the fact is they had filed weeks BEFORE Strader's show even aired! How you can come on here and even TRY to say Strader did not do all of this is laughable, OR to insinuate that I'm "up Gassett's rear end" for simply stating the truth.

I "pick sides" based ON WHAT I BELIEVE IN- pray tell what you do suppose one should "pick sides" based on? I believe in sportsmen/women and biologists etc. having the "final say" in wildlife NOT politicians who cater to Deer Farmers!

I have Never been "up Gassett's backside" nor will I EVER be, what I will do is stand up for anyone who I believe is doing a good job and folks lying outright (like not filing with the LRC ) it concerns me how YOU overlook the obvious and "pretend" things that clearly happened and were wrong on Strader's side "mean nothing" as IF one "side" can do anything they want.......

You seem to have "selective memory" as IF "I" have never called out the Dept when they're wrong, it's just that Strader has given me FAR more "ammo" than the KDFWR has, and much of the KDFWR allegations have never came even close to being proven or believable. Besides all of that, in this case NO one can take Strader's side and not expect to have to deal with the reality of this cost ALL OF US $ that could have gone to MUCH better purposes than legal fees against a bogus claim filed against the KDFWR .....so PLEEEEEASE yourself

Since you have ALL this proof and knowledge of "KDFWR corruption" I suggest you make things happen, somehow I'm not going to hold my breath.
 

aceoky

12 pointer
Jul 14, 2003
13,494
W KY
Never have we seen the legislature HAVE to get involved because of widespread unethical conduct like we have this past year. And while many of us WERE fighting that risk, you were in your normal position inside gassets back side.

NOW you'll certainly HAVE to post some quotes of my doing this within the past year as I'm going to enjoy this
 


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