I don't think they were arguing skills and knowledge. I think they were arguing power and influence.
Strader Lawsuit
- Thread starter KTF
- Start date
I don't think they were arguing skills and knowledge. I think they were arguing power and influence.
Art
12 pointer
I come sum it all up by saying that it's best to stay as far away from the KDFWR politics and professional hunters as you possibly can. The KDFWR has many employees that are great at their job and work very hard, but they are also like any other Frankfort agency and has more than it's share of bad apples. I have heard stories for many years of CO's abusing their power and breaking the same game laws they are suppose to protect. Corruption is hard to stop when those above the guilty ones have their own skeleton's to hide.
Any time you get involved with scoring, competition, product promotion, and those that make a living through outdoors related products and activities, IMO, you have lost sight of the true meaning of the sport and are contributing to the downfall in an indirect way. I know, turing a blind eye won't necessarily make things go away, BUT I think sometimes if there wasn't such an audience and willing participants, some of this crap would never happen. JMO.
Any time you get involved with scoring, competition, product promotion, and those that make a living through outdoors related products and activities, IMO, you have lost sight of the true meaning of the sport and are contributing to the downfall in an indirect way. I know, turing a blind eye won't necessarily make things go away, BUT I think sometimes if there wasn't such an audience and willing participants, some of this crap would never happen. JMO.
Let's not pretend that Strader didn't profit (and greatly) for a very long time due to the KDFWR , after so much of his pushing the KDFWR around trying to FORCE them to do his bidding, it bit him on his own backside, where I come from that is justice not something worthy of a civil suit that costs the very folks Strader claims to represent . When you use your position to damage those who have helped you well when that comes back to bite you , time to "man up" and accept the reality of you only have yourself to blame.
I don't care how many of you claim it was "wrong' had Strader done YOU the same way don't pretend you'd kept right on supporting him, once you warned him to "cease and desist" the KDFWR bashing and he only got worse (as in I DARE you to do something) every single one of us would have done exactly what was done (some of us even more than what was done IMO)
Trying to convince anyone that is not the case is laughable IMO
I don't care how many of you claim it was "wrong' had Strader done YOU the same way don't pretend you'd kept right on supporting him, once you warned him to "cease and desist" the KDFWR bashing and he only got worse (as in I DARE you to do something) every single one of us would have done exactly what was done (some of us even more than what was done IMO)
Trying to convince anyone that is not the case is laughable IMO
JDMiller
12 pointer
Slick.... I would agree 100% ....if what were discussing concerned KDF&WR's being a private business.... but it's not.
Theres no blanket statewide policy concerning "moonlighting" / "outside employment" and state agencies.
It's up to each state entities administration to adopt their own policies & procedeure to govern as such. They can be as strict... or as lax on employees with outside employment / operating a side business. Which ...I have no idea what KDF&WR's policy is on this matter. I just know that the Ky's AG gave Gassett their opinion & OK for his business venture...well before Strader made his allegations and filed the suit.
However I will say.... I've worked ...retired... and went back to work for a state governed entity going on 27 years...and my wife has worked for a totally different state funded entity for 20 years ...combined giving us somewhere around 47 years total as state workers. There is absolutely nothing on the books to prevent us or our coworkers from having a side business in the fields we have been trained, skilled & licensed in...as long as it does'nt interfere with our primary job duties during our assigned hours scheduled.
In all honesty....from the govenors office to the highway dept.... it is more than common for state employees to have a side business / outside employment. Also not as unusual as you think on the level of administration / salary as Gassett....especially for consulting businesses. Heck my director now has operated an engineering & survey business the whole time he's been employed by the state... even while in a engineering position.
As far as conflict of interest... theres a whole slew of current politicians that are also employed by state agencies....which inturn have direct involvement in influencing / voting on funding for the very agencies their employed by. All legal and apparently no conflict in comparrison to Gassetts situation that we want to split hairs over. Again..just my opinion... but about the only thing in Gassetts situation that would warrant a big red flag...is if his consulting firm was awarded state contracts. This is a major conflict and governed by procurement rules that are a blanket policy for all state agencies. But as far as I know...this did'nt occur. Only some minor E-mail & phone misuse on KDF&WR's time.
Ultimately... at least to me .... I've always thought it's a situation that were putting Gassett on a higher pedestal than we do anyone else including our elected officials. Some expectations are completly unreasonable regardless of the salary or position.... and if those expectations were put on us...we would quit our jobs today. Our careers are just that...a career and they do not define us. Employment by anyone does not mean the employer has control over anyone 24 /7 as if they owned them.
trust me
Troubled Loner
Gassett's position has far more in common with a corporate executive and it's silly to compare his responsibilities with those of a rank and file laborer. With the salary and privileges he commands, the Commissioners should demand that he devote 100% of his efforts to the KDFWR's interests. That's the way the corporate world works.
Wildlife management and real estate peddling aren't things you do in the evenings and on weekends. Those jobs are going to eat into the workday and that is not acceptable.
Wildlife management and real estate peddling aren't things you do in the evenings and on weekends. Those jobs are going to eat into the workday and that is not acceptable.
JDMiller
12 pointer
Trustme.....again.... not that any of this matters to me personally... as Gassett would'nt know me if our paths crossed and I've already stated more than I intended.
So this will be my last comments on this subject..... KDF&WR's commissioner....Gassett as of now.... is a state employee....and KDF&WR's is not a corporation. They exist because of sportsmen to manage our wildlife & provide services.....and never intended to be operated only for profit margins as a corporation or business would.
He is governed by the same rules / policies as a KDF&WR's employee making minimum wage... and basically his salary is irrelevant.... it all concerns his job description and if he is fulfilling his job duties as prescribed as commisioner / director as reviewed by the district commissioners during evaluation periods.
Which....is no different than any director or head of other state agencies. Fact is considering the governing body of district commisioners.... his position has more oversight than anyone else in a similar position at the state level.
If he's not doing his job or conflict of interest with his side business exist..... they can ask him to hit the door. Which has'nt happened yet... under different district commissioners I might add....spanning several years now.
Which is how the state works..... right or wrong... it is what it is.
trust me
Troubled Loner
You nailed it.
JonDunn
10 pointer
Should he sale the farm?
Yep, he is. Says so right here on his bio.
http://www.kyagr.com/commissioner/
Should he not be because of his position as Ag commissioner? That is a side job, right? And that's in the same field as his gov't job, right?
Oh, and isn't the governor a lawyer too? How does David Williams pay his bills? And Greg Stumbo?
Hmm, so as lawyers, they're tasked with defending the laws they make as legislators? Well, how about that?
http://www.kyagr.com/commissioner/
Should he not be because of his position as Ag commissioner? That is a side job, right? And that's in the same field as his gov't job, right?
Oh, and isn't the governor a lawyer too? How does David Williams pay his bills? And Greg Stumbo?
Hmm, so as lawyers, they're tasked with defending the laws they make as legislators? Well, how about that?
JonDunn
10 pointer
Better to have a farmer as an AG Commissioner than a gay hair dresser.
When an employer wants to pay me 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, then they can tell me what to do 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
When an employer wants to pay me 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, then they can tell me what to do 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
GSPonGrouse
10 pointer
Does this gay hair dresser also cut hair for people in his kitchen?
JonDunn
10 pointer
Let your imagination run wild.
slickhead slayer
12 pointer
There is nothing he does as a farmer that is similar to what the dept of ag does. The dept of agr doesn't provide any services that farmers also do. They promote farming in Ky. They don't cut hay, they don't sell beef cattle, etc, etc. Surely you guys can see the difference?
A better example would be if our Sec of Ag was ALSO the sec of agriculture of Illinois. They both do the exact same thing just for different entitiies.
Same with legislators. What do legislators do that attorneys do? Nothing.
Gassett on the other hand has a business that provides the EXACT same services as KYDFW.
If you guys owned a HVAC company would you be ok if your salesman owned a HVAC company on the side? LOL, because you guys have a different view of business than I do.
daking
12 pointer
- Dec 29, 2004
- 2,604
Guys, I'm going to violate a promise to myself and have more comment on this subject than my first. Please bear with me as I pose a few questions:
1) Are the KWFR, Jon Gassett, each of us or Jim Strader for that matter perfect? Hardly. We are all part of a groping society; that is we all grope (mostly all in good faith) for truth, doing things the right way and how to pass what that which we exercise temporary stewardship over what we value to the future. Is our disagreement over what we've grabbed during our individual grope of life to cause intramural fights like this?
2) We live in a nation of laws, procedures and rules. One party files a lawsuit. The defendant offers his best defense and then the rule of law (either by judge or jury) is charged with making the call. That has happened. The plaintiff has every opportunity to appeal the decision within a certain time period. If the matter is still going to be contested, let the two aggrieved parties work it out in the system we work and fight so hard to create and preserve. It's one thing to sit in the stands and cheer for your favorite basketball team coached by an east coast Italian-American. It's not good form, nor does it add to the process to have a cheering or booing section trying to influence something that should be decided by the facts and the rules of law.
3) In terms of hunting and angling in Kentucky, are we better or worse off than we were say 20 years ago? In some instances, folks have taken it in the shorts. In similar instances, folks have been the beneficiary of a lot more than they put in. On balance, I think it's important to determine if the sporting community as a whole is better off for having listened to the Strader show or by KWFDR's execution of its game plan. I'd like to think I'm learning that the universe does not revolve around me. You neither.
4) If indeed there are plenty of fish and game, opportunities to pursue them abound and we keep moving forward, is it worth sweating he small stuff? Yes, I realize that if we take care of the small stuff, the big stuff will take care of itself. Sometimes the small stuff in others lives might be of little interest to us. So long as something is running smoothly, it sometimes is best to overlook some of the minutia that bothers us about what someone else does and focus on the big picture. If the powers that be seem pleased with an employee's effort, maybe we should be a little less critical of the employee. If it's totally offensive to you, take it up with someone who can do something about it. Hurling stones at the messenger seldom does the messenger or the stone hurler any good.
Let's try to be a little kinder toward each others. Non of us is getting out of here alive.
1) Are the KWFR, Jon Gassett, each of us or Jim Strader for that matter perfect? Hardly. We are all part of a groping society; that is we all grope (mostly all in good faith) for truth, doing things the right way and how to pass what that which we exercise temporary stewardship over what we value to the future. Is our disagreement over what we've grabbed during our individual grope of life to cause intramural fights like this?
2) We live in a nation of laws, procedures and rules. One party files a lawsuit. The defendant offers his best defense and then the rule of law (either by judge or jury) is charged with making the call. That has happened. The plaintiff has every opportunity to appeal the decision within a certain time period. If the matter is still going to be contested, let the two aggrieved parties work it out in the system we work and fight so hard to create and preserve. It's one thing to sit in the stands and cheer for your favorite basketball team coached by an east coast Italian-American. It's not good form, nor does it add to the process to have a cheering or booing section trying to influence something that should be decided by the facts and the rules of law.
3) In terms of hunting and angling in Kentucky, are we better or worse off than we were say 20 years ago? In some instances, folks have taken it in the shorts. In similar instances, folks have been the beneficiary of a lot more than they put in. On balance, I think it's important to determine if the sporting community as a whole is better off for having listened to the Strader show or by KWFDR's execution of its game plan. I'd like to think I'm learning that the universe does not revolve around me. You neither.
4) If indeed there are plenty of fish and game, opportunities to pursue them abound and we keep moving forward, is it worth sweating he small stuff? Yes, I realize that if we take care of the small stuff, the big stuff will take care of itself. Sometimes the small stuff in others lives might be of little interest to us. So long as something is running smoothly, it sometimes is best to overlook some of the minutia that bothers us about what someone else does and focus on the big picture. If the powers that be seem pleased with an employee's effort, maybe we should be a little less critical of the employee. If it's totally offensive to you, take it up with someone who can do something about it. Hurling stones at the messenger seldom does the messenger or the stone hurler any good.
Let's try to be a little kinder toward each others. Non of us is getting out of here alive.
