States response to night hunting

Discussion in 'Varmint Hunting' started by Jimmie in Ky, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    JMO, not if I can help it. I will continue to support the sport even after I can no longer participate. And as long as we all share info and support the shooting sports we can pass this on to future generations. With most of th epopulation against us it seems like an uphill battle. But as long as we stick together , we can get it done. Jimmie
     
  2. Cantmisum

    Cantmisum 8 pointer

    Jimmie, At the moment I haven't received any responses back.The reason maybe I have had the computer problems and have had to take the tower in twice in the last two weeks.Hard drive problems.
    (No wife jokes Please;))

    The news you gave today does not sound good.
    Let me say this on the subject of coon hunting at night vs. coyotes at night.
    By no means should we attack the fortunate hunters that are allowed to practice the sport of there choice.

    Coming from an one time avid coon hunter as myself and from an area that allowed night hunting and spotlighting at night.during off season.
    The potential to stop poaching.Buy banning lights has very little effect on the actual poachers.

    I have seen Deer come right to the sounds and lights while standing under a treed coon, with several dogs under it.I have proved this many times over in the effort to gain access to property that that the owner was afraid to give access to hunt because of the possibility of running the deer off his property After them seeing this, they usually changed their position.

    I have also witnessed hunters who have used this curiosity to shot deer under the guise of coon hunting. That is why the law as it stands for coon hunting in Michigan and alot of other states is, the light may only be used at the point of kill. In an attempt to stop poaching buy casting lights to spot layed up coon and also to eliminate the poacher who uses the light to kill deer under the coon hunting sport rules. Correct me if I am wrong(POINT OF KILL) is when you shoot the coyote also, is this where it needs to go.
    Further more the liberal bag limit on coon is NO LIMIT or POSSESSION LIMIT with a season.Which just goes to show Buy placing a liberal or no limit bag on coyotes during the day has no barring on night hunting whatsoever during a certain season. Which should be proposed for night hunting only.

    Now I am going to say something I am not proud of but I will say it anyway.
    I have a family member. an In-law ,that used to many years ago, shoot deer at night and as a young boy wanting to be COOL I did ride along a few times. But regardless of the fact that he was feeding his family and others with the meat it was against the law.
    He was also busted buy the DNR for this and the spot light was actually the very thing that was his demise.

    I dont believe the excuse given buy fish and game is valid. Buy the way.
    Is there proof that the statutes in place have stopped poaching or even curtailed it in any way. If so I 'd like to see the study. or is the fact that complaints about spot lighting at night has just lessened. Which in turn, makes for less follow ups and reports and because the job now doesn't require this aspect it makes for less or no night time patrols buy the fish and game.This analogy only gives rise to the notion that the real poachers now have less pressure on them and can resume there tactics of illegal taking of game on moon light nights with a 22lr.

    Maybe you are correct jimmie.The next time any of us here shots fired at night we should begin to report them and report them every time regardless of whether if its just the good ol boy club. forcing them the F&G to respond to all the calls at night. putting the F&G officers back on a full time patrol to follow up. One would think that the officers would hope to see the spot light shining so they can use it to track down and identify the culprits.
    I would be inclined to believe.The light will save time,money and effort. and will probably eliminate the possability of stopping innocent bystanders in hopes of just lucking onto a passer by that maybe doing something illegitimate or not. JMO...
     
  3. Cantmisum

    Cantmisum 8 pointer

    After reading KRS150.360-.395 and the entire KRS statue 150
    I am beginning to come to the conclusion that The use of lights is not the issue. upon further research found under House bill 722 the statue was or had contained the line."For the purpose of pouching" which was removed in the final bill. further more most of KRS 150.360 it seems it was intended to the use of ,or means to take game. containing rules, in regards to shell type gun size, discharging fire arms on roads and the use of lights or means to see an animal at night other than a opposum, raccoon,frog or fish etc.Nothing in regaurds to land owner protection as stated in the response given.
    It struck me odd that you can take fur bearers at night with a .22 cal rimfire . and that coyotes seem to be considered small game unless you are trapping them under a fur bearers license and season.Why because fur bears have a season. coyotes have a seson to its just all year not that there is not one?
    All that being said under section .395 the exceptions to the use of lights go on to state , this does not apply to ,anyone involved in activity legitimate to business or occupation including lawful hunting.
    now this might not work but, but why could we just not get an occupational license for nuisance animal control , pay our license fee and be hired buy land owner and be legit.:rolleyes:
    .
     
  4. Cantmisum

    Cantmisum 8 pointer

    After reading KRS150.360-.395 and the entire KRS statue 150
    I am beginning to come to the conclusion that The use of lights is not the issue. upon further research found under House bill 722 the statue was or had contained the line."For the purpose of pouching" which was removed in the final bill. further more most of KRS 150.360 it seems it was intended to the use of ,or means to take game. containing rules, in regards to shell type gun size, discharging fire arms on roads and the use of lights or means to see an animal at night other than a opposum, raccoon,frog or fish etc.Nothing in regaurds to land owner protection as stated in the response given.
    It struck me odd that you can take fur bearers at night with a .22 cal rimfire . and that coyotes seem to be considered small game unless you are trapping them under a fur bearers license and season.Why because fur bears have a season. coyotes have a seson to its just all year not that there is not one?
    All that being said under section .395 the exceptions to the use of lights go on to state , this does not apply to ,anyone involved in activity legitimate to business or occupation including lawful hunting.
    now this might not work but, but why could we just not get an occupational license for nuisance animal control , pay our license fee and be hired buy land owner and be legit.:rolleyes:
    .
     
  5. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    Heres hte rub Cantmisium. I understand they have also stopped landowners setting up to do this work unde rthe old rules too. At one time they could set up permanant blind stations to call and use lights to take out problem animals. When htey stopped allowing no lights no electronics they also stopped this as well. At least that is my understanding at this time. Farmers were using lights to take game of a sort , therefore not legal under their laws as they read. Confusing huh?

    Now these were legitamate landowners doing a job that may or may not have been needed for their lively hood. Yet it was stopped as well. Most likely neighbors complaining and gettin officers out of bed for nothing.

    Coon hunters numbers have dropped drastically over the years as well. A kid can't afford the dogs and there is no money in hte fur either, No coon hunters to amount to anything any more. Fewer lights and those are mainly small flashlights compared to the spots poachers use. And folkls can hear hte dogs as well, so no calls to speak of except tresspassing which can be handled by other law enforcement.

    The ADC Liscence and permits do not allow for this either. It must be done by trapping or daylight hunting methods. Nor can animals to be removed from the premises be killed except during legal seasons for them to be taken. Which in ht ecase of coyote is year around, but , other animals must be released elsewhere to cause more probllems. Thats the reason I don't have one myself, I just do coyotes for free for neighbors. Now if I dump a coon elsewhere after he has been living in someones attic space for a while, where is it going ot go? Right back to someones attic space. If something is raiding a commercial sweetcorn crop and removed , where is that animal going ot go for food after being released? Straight to another sweetcorn patch. I do not believe in creating more problems for someone else because of animal habits, once they live off man they will continue to do so. So I will not buy a permit for this reason.

    We need to move in a positive direction instead of debating what hte laws mean or do not mean. We need to come up with ideas they can live with and so can we. A set of rules that are not open to debate for all to follow. Without this we are not going ot get anywhere. So what can we comeup with fellas? Jimmie
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  6. Cantmisum

    Cantmisum 8 pointer

    Jimmie,
    I agree with you that arguing semantics and the laws that are on the books now between us hunters is a fruitless effort and gets us nowhere.
    I agree with you after reading 301 KAR that NWCO's have to follow the KRS150. regulations.
    I don't agree totally on the point you made in your first post. That at least we are being heard. someone heard us ,they just did not listen.
    Seems as thoughe this is what government does all the time anymore.

    I really did not want to make this a political discussion.But as it appears now .
    It may be the only resort after the response you and others have received.

    Does it not appear that us suggesting alternatives to new reg. is going to go anywhere fast or slow for that matter.

    I do believe that the Dept of wildlife resource commission are appointed to their offices, and are suggested to the Governor by sportsman.

    I do not know how to post a link so I will refer to KRS150.022-.023-.025-.061

    I am positive we as a group can all somewhat agree on what ever regulations are proposed.As long as they includes night hunting coyotes. The reasons given against were lame and appear prejudice or biased against us.

    For that reason a political solution may be the only alternative.
    To that I say we need to dig a little deeper into this Maybe take a pole or a petition like LBLDOG mentioned. and find out who is for what and who is not.That way we can find out how many voices are willing to be heard. And not just on this forum.

    If I could type with more than one finger I would be willing to try to make one up.I just wish I was more computer savvy.
    What about the legality's of a petition i'm not sure but i think a real petition has to meet certain criteria. I'll research it and find out. I got the time. Still any suggestion will not hurt this effort.
     
  7. coyote caller

    coyote caller 6 pointer

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    Jan 24, 2010
    london ky
    some of you guys might hate meh for this but i think that they are right about not being able to see behind the target but i like the coyote hunt during the day, i think that i would like to see bobcat and fox huntin during the night.
     
  8. predator1

    predator1 12 pointer

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    957
    Dec 25, 2008
    Glasgow,Ky
    We simply want shotguns. How far beyond your target do you expect the shot to travel?? I've been peppered many of times dove hunting, I see no danger what so ever;)
     
  9. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    Getting the commisioners to hear us is going to be part of it. That is a must !! Without them we will be whistling dixie 'til ht ecows come home.

    And as You stated we have to get kdfw to actually LISTEN.

    So how do we accomplish these things ?


    Phone , e-mail , or talk to your district comissioner in person if they will meet with you.

    Our argument for is going to have to have facts to back it up. It's been a while since I did a pot load of research for something like this. I need some help gathering this stuff or it will have to wait until after the LBL hunt

    And once again I bring up the idea of an organization. Do we want to put one together? Any body have any experience with these things ?

    Just some of my thoughts. Jimmie
     
  10. coyote caller

    coyote caller 6 pointer

    296
    0
    Jan 24, 2010
    london ky
    oh well that would be good, i think that coyote would be a good challenge with a shotgun and i think it would be good for it too be legal but i probably just wouldnt do it that much
     
  11. predator1

    predator1 12 pointer

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    Dec 25, 2008
    Glasgow,Ky
    Jimmie, I don't have the experience. But, I would be glad to join an organization with the rest of yall!:)
     
  12. Cantmisum

    Cantmisum 8 pointer

    Jimmie,

    I don't have any experience in starting an org. and like predator1 I'm all for it and will help in any way I can.
    There is one thing that I can do is spend time on the research.
    I have all the time in the world, just give me some clues and I'll
    find the info we need .
    There is a long story attached to my experience in doing research and digging up info.I was once told by my lawyer. "I sure hope you never decide to come after me." If its out there and needs to be found ,I'm the man for the job.
     
  13. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    We need night hunting laws for any state that limits lights. Missourri is a good place to start since I believ ehteye still have it. I have not checked in some time.I think some of hte western states are under this same reg as well , but for the life of me can't remember which one. Jimmie
     
  14. JDMiller

    JDMiller 12 pointer

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    Jun 12, 2005
    " Between the Rivers "
    First off let me say I'm relatively neutral on the subject. I can understand the reasons why hunters want it but I can also to a degree understand KDF&WR's stance as well. I personally dont think the KDF&WR decision is set in stone but to the effect its based on limited input. Overall this is not a normal issue with effect on resources but safety & LE concerns.

    The old adage that there is strength in numbers is the normal process for it to be legitimently considered. At present I'm not aware of any Ky predator hunting clubs or organizations established. In my personal & honest opinion .... this is the missing link for serious consideration.

    However ... theres a lot to organizing something as this especially on a statewide effort. Theres basically the charter discussion to work details and theres many. Establishment of by-laws, mission statement, membership, chapters...ect. It boils down to it takes time & money to get things rolling, & enough membership to be an effective voice to the KDF&WR. Without existing clubs its extremely difficult for logistics to make decisions as this.

    I can attest to this with the formation of the UCBK (United Crossbow Hunters of Kentucky) when we were trying to get an expanded crossbow season. We resorted to formation similiar to Cyberhunters of Ky. Our membership was scattered all over the state & other states....so we established a website & conducted club business on-line. We even had club status through the LKS but did'nt have a lot of help from that standpoint. So... not that its impossible to do it in this manner but its not what you want for the long haul.

    So take this as just a suggestion.... any existing organization would seriously consider increased enrollment and have an existing working relationship with KDF&WR. With this in mind... theres one in particular thats somewhat oriented to the sport of predator hunting... United Trappers of Ky(UTK). They do a lot of good work and I've been impressed with their organization.

    Personally.. I dont trap but would not hesitate to become a member and support the UTK if they could find a way to comingle the predator hunters along with the trappers. In my opinion this would be the direction I would pursue.
     
  15. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    Now that is a good suggestion Jd. And it is more likely to work faster than us trying to put something new together with no money or knowledge of how to do it. I have met a couple of officers at an event a few years ago, and know a member or two personally. I might be able to get ahold one one , but its going to be hard at this time of year. He's working his tail off on hte line ;-)

    I will look up their website and see what htey have to say when I get a chance. Maybe they will remember that crappy seminar I gave impromptue at the fall gathering ;-) Jimmie
     

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