Question?????

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by adamky, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. adamky

    adamky 6 pointer

    133
    19
    Sep 10, 2008
    Daviess County
    How does the fish and wildlife people decide what zone a county is????
    THe reason I ask because I have been thinking about alll the people I have talked to that saw very few deer here in west kentucky. I personally think they need to poll all hunters on how many deer they saw and how many days they hunted. I know of at least 8 people who hunted 14 days of the gun season and saw zero deer or 1 deer. To me that calls for some kind of change either restricting gun season or going to buck only in some counties for a few years til the population is built back up. MY theory is
    "a hunter can go in the woods and shoot a deer and that may have been the only deer they saw or a hunter can go in the woods and shoot a deer out of the 30 deer that he saw". The state can't decipher which hunter checked his deer in using their current system. Just my thoughts.....
    Adam
     
  2. Suthrn2k8

    Suthrn2k8 6 pointer

    142
    0
    Oct 16, 2008
    Shelby Co. Ky.
    Always been under the understanding that they use road kill numbers and telecheck numbers combined to come up with a zone restriction but i could be wrong.
     
  3. It is a combination of things like harvest numbers, road kills, and damage complaints but the largest factor is people population in a given area. The more people you have living in an area the higher probability of car/deer collisions. It matters little if the people population in a county is concentrated on one side of the county. It also matters little if the other side of the county is where all the rural area is, where the majority of hunting takes place, and where the deer population is impacted the most. It also matters little that there are few if any hunting opportunities in and around the city where the problem exists. The Dept. manages deer on a Macro level not a micro level. That is where they miss the boat.

    As you said Adam, the poor results of deer harvest should make a red light come on but it doesn't. What makes the red light come on is consistant or increased car/deer from the year before in the large city in the county. The forest gets missed for the trees.
     
  4. Iceman35

    Iceman35 12 pointer

    7,987
    2,802
    Oct 27, 2008
    Boone County

    I don't know how a state agency can get more micro than going county by county. I mean, what is your proposed alternative? Going by congressional districts?
     
  5. duffiel3

    duffiel3 6 pointer

    328
    7
    May 17, 2006
    Morehead, KY
    I don't know how they do it either. I think sometimes people think there are no deer in their county when they haven't had much luck. I wonder if some of these counties are like my home county in WV. There are parts of the county that are overpopulated with deer, and then 15-20 miles away where I live, we rarely saw deer growing up. I lived there 20 years and saw a total of 5-6 bucks growing up. But I could go to the other side of the county and see deer all day long. So, some counties that are zoned for unlimited doe kills might have areas that have low numbers of deer and parts that are overloaded. I say all that to make the point that I'm not sure there is a perfect way to zone a county.
     
  6. Iceman35,

    Well they could begin by asking on telecheck to include the zip code in which the deer were harvested. This would tell a lot. It would show that the deer were being taken in the non-urban areas which are where most deer over population problems exist due to hunting not being effective because it is not allowed. We would also get a better picture of where in the rural areas hunting pressure is the greatest. They could then do periodic field surveys or take periodic field surveys from hunters in those high hunting pressure areas to determine the "real" state of the deer population.
     
  7. Suthrn2k8

    Suthrn2k8 6 pointer

    142
    0
    Oct 16, 2008
    Shelby Co. Ky.
    Sounds like a perfect solution to get more area specific..
     
  8. Lost_in_the_woods

    Lost_in_the_woods 6 pointer

    247
    0
    Nov 15, 2008
    graves county
    i heard somewhere that they are trying to get the numbers down in west ky to make all this area a zone 2
     
  9. Iceman35

    Iceman35 12 pointer

    7,987
    2,802
    Oct 27, 2008
    Boone County

    Thats one way. Not disagreeing with you, but I do see a problem. If you start deviding counties by roads, higways, city boundaries, whatever, your still going to run into people that view the system as faulted. I know someone who's property has the county line running right through the middle of it. Not on a fencline or anything, but litterally right across an open field. Now if you apply your fomula, and the county line is the devider in this instance, but it could just be a county road, then your telling you this guy he has to hunt his property different depending on where he is on it.

    I also think that once people realize that the surveys affect future zone changes, that people will start lying just to prevent or initiate zone changes.
     
  10. IDK but I havent been a day where I didnt see at least 3-4 deer in a short period. My Trail cams take 2-300 pics in a 3-5 day period mostly of does. Matter of fact, There a 2 in the back yard as i type.:D
     
  11. Iceman,

    I'm not saying that what I suggested is not without issue but there should be a better way to set zones based on actual live deer numbers instead of nothing but dead dear,automobile claims, and yuppie complaints. Also, if we are at the point where guys are more concerned about how many days they can gun hunt and how many deer they can kill rather than the conservation of the resource, all is lost already. Honestly, I really feel that the KDF&W probably couldn't and shouldn't be asked to manage at a micro level, hunters should. But in this day and age people have a hard time doing what they need to do unless the government tells them to. It comes down to responsibility and accountability, not to mention ethics. We as hunters can completely control our own destinies when it comes to the future of hunting if we make the right decision and do the right things because they are the right things to do. Just because the dept. says we can kill everything that moves doesn't mean we have to when we know it will impact our resource negatively.
     
  12. retiredbowhunter

    retiredbowhunter 8 pointer

    617
    0
    Aug 23, 2006

    That should be very easy to add to the telecheck entry data.

    Very good suggestion.
     
  13. Davidlondon4

    Davidlondon4 12 pointer

    2,021
    29
    Dec 2, 2004
    Laurel County
    Adding zip codes is a very good suggestion.Just be aware that zip codes do cross county lines sometimes.
     
  14. Iceman35

    Iceman35 12 pointer

    7,987
    2,802
    Oct 27, 2008
    Boone County

    I think we generally agree. I hunt in Zone 1 so seeing deer is generally not the issue that it is across other parts of the state. Having lived and hunted here for 7 years, and following the dept, I don't think that their focus has left conservation. It might appear so on this particular issue at this particular time, but I think that overall performance should be judged over a few seasons. Being a lifetime resident, maybe that is where you are coming from. As always, we can always hope for a better season next year.:D
     
  15. adamky

    adamky 6 pointer

    133
    19
    Sep 10, 2008
    Daviess County
    d

    Many of you make good points. But my question still remains.
    How do they know if the deer checked in was the only deer the hunter saw or if it was one of many? Or if the one runover was the only deer for miles or one of many? I personally have seen fewer deer runover this year than Ican ever remember. I do drive alot 30 miles each way to work and I go to Ballard County at least 4 or 5 times during deer season and at least that many during duck season. So I travel some well known deer areas and there just aren't the collisions with deer that I was seeing 3 or 4 years ago.
    Adam
     

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