Lets see some pic. of dogs going north

[grouseguy]

I wish my old dog stayed in close enough range to where I could put a bell on her. Instead I had to settle for a $700 GPS system.

Be careful what you ask for Jon! I know we all have our personal tastes, but I'll take the big running dog THAT HAS BRAKES AND WILL STAY PUT over the bell tinklers any day.

BTW, Jon, this is NOT directed at you or your dog as we've never met, but you provided a segue for a rant that I've been sitting on for awhile.

This may ruffle a few feathers, but it's an observation that has held mostly true ... over the past 3 seasons, since I've been guiding up north, I've come across a wide cross section of "hunters" and "bird dogs". Most of these guys just hunt a few days a year and want to use the guide's dogs to get as much out of the experience as possible, which is fine by me, but there are those that want to bring their own dogs, which is also OK. What I've noticed though, is that the client dogs that wear bells are usually the dogs that none of us would even feed.

My observation seems to center around the fact that these "hunters" mostly prefer a bell over an ecollar/beeper because their dogs won't hunt outside of their shadow and/or they have absolutely no control over them because they don't possess the ability to push a button that will cause their dogs any kind of discomfort. Therefore, you either have a dog running around your feet all day listening to that maddening tinkling or you have an owner that spends most of his day hollering for a dog with no discipline.

OK, rant over ... back to dog pics.

 

[GSP]

I've known Ronnie for 10 or 15 years, and he's nothing but a dirty old man!!! Rick Allen, on the other hand, is a fine Southern gentleman who would NEVER EVER make an off-color comment!!! Both guys are good friends of ours and are welcome to share an adult beverage with grouseguy and me any time, as long as they are paying!!

Ronnie-I hope you are referring to me and not Mark in your post!!

Boy I am glad my internet was down, that was close. Yep, she described me to a tee!

 

[grouseguy]

Boy I am glad my internet was down, that was close. Yep, she described me to a tee!

You may want to consider hanging around a better caliber of people!!!

 

[JonDunn]

Im split. I guess the price you pay for them big running setters is just that, they are big running setters. 100 yards or better around here is fine and dandy with me. Ill take that anyday of the week, but 200 yards in Wisconsin is about 150 to far in my opinion. Ive beat and banged, shocked, took limbs the size of your wrist, and she just seems to do it when she pleases. I once had her running on 3 legs in Wisconsin and she was money. I believe she pointed 12 of the 13 grouse we flew on that short hunt. She doesn't take a shocker to well either. She has it figured out to a tee. You hit her, she just lays down. We used to think her hunting to wide was competition, but not so much as of late. She just takes her moments when she wants to go out wide. She might stay out wide the whole hunt with me cussin and rantin and ravin in the background, or she might go wide 1 time in ever blue moon with me cussin and rantin and ravin in the background.

So thats my reason for the bell. I couldn't run one on her for sure, but my young dog I can. She varies her range very well. I believe she is smarter than most humans. She stays from 30 yards to 100, depending exactly on the cover your in.

I got a partner that is using a bell with his GPS. He listens for the bell when shes in close, then pays attention to his handheld when she is out of range. I will probably do that this year. It puts a little more aesthetics in the hunt, minus the big antenna coming from the dog.

Be careful what you ask for Jon! I know we all have our personal tastes, but I'll take the big running dog THAT HAS BRAKES AND WILL STAY PUT over the bell tinklers any day.

BTW, Jon, this is NOT directed at you or your dog as we've never met, but you provided a segue for a rant that I've been sitting on for awhile.

This may ruffle a few feathers, but it's an observation that has held mostly true ... over the past 3 seasons, since I've been guiding up north, I've come across a wide cross section of "hunters" and "bird dogs". Most of these guys just hunt a few days a year and want to use the guide's dogs to get as much out of the experience as possible, which is fine by me, but there are those that want to bring their own dogs, which is also OK. What I've noticed though, is that the client dogs that wear bells are usually the dogs that none of us would even feed.

My observation seems to center around the fact that these "hunters" mostly prefer a bell over an ecollar/beeper because their dogs won't hunt outside of their shadow and/or they have absolutely no control over them because they don't possess the ability to push a button that will cause their dogs any kind of discomfort. Therefore, you either have a dog running around your feet all day listening to that maddening tinkling or you have an owner that spends most of his day hollering for a dog with no discipline.

OK, rant over ... back to dog pics.

 

[grouseguy]

It puts a little more aesthetics in the hunt, minus the big antenna coming from the dog.

Apparently, some guys love the things, but I can't stand a bell. Beepers don't bother me ... its a beep every 8 seconds ... but those damn bells never stop. I suppose for me the real question is ... is it the bells themselves or the hunter/dogs that I've been with that use them.

 

[Birdman]

is it the bells themselves or the hunter/dogs that I've been with that use them.

Same here. Other than hunting up north, if my dog is close enough for me to here a bell (at least the ones I been around) I'm looking for another dog. Some people really like'em and that's great, their just not for me.

 

[JonDunn]

I want a dog around here at 120 or so yards max, depending on cover. Up north I like them to settle in alot closer depending on cover, but maybe I'm asking to much.

 

[jbent]

Not that it matters but I like both, my dog stays at the edge of bell range sometimes outside of it, but I also hunt with a point only mode beeper at the same time. She doesn't hang around my feet all day with the bell, that would get old quick, but also same thing with beeper. 100 to 120 is good for me also. by the time you bust through brush that far the birds where I hunt are out of there.

 

[brettfrancis1]

I have my favorite dog that always stays in the 100 yard range. He always wears a point only beeper. Besides him I wouldn't keep another dog who didn't move a little more. I'm with grouseguy, I would much rather have a running dog that goes to find birds and stands them til I get there. I took a lot of bad advice from people telling me to keep them in gun range all the time. If I wanted to walk everywhere I would hunt a flushing/versatile breed. All my running dogs naturally hunt for me and stay in check. If they can't hear me they come to see me. There are 4 pointers and 2 setters standing in the kennel right now and 5 of them are going to stay 200+ yards all the time. The Nickel bred pointer I've been running is going to stay 400+ almost all the time but he always makes sure I'm around. Curious how he will work up north. I turned him loose in Pike county and he made a 900 yard cast once. I'm really thankful for the Garmin. He stayed the rest of the day around 400.

I'm sure Grouseguy's dogs are doing the same thing, covering the country looking for birds but always keeping in touch.

I understand people like different things. I still get a kick out of people who want a bootlicker but are still quick to tell the Ch shooting dog in their dog's pedigree.

 

[grouseguy]

I have my favorite dog that always stays in the 100 yard range. He always wears a point only beeper. Besides him I wouldn't keep another dog who didn't move a little more. I'm with grouseguy, I would much rather have a running dog that goes to find birds and stands them til I get there. I took a lot of bad advice from people telling me to keep them in gun range all the time. If I wanted to walk everywhere I would hunt a flushing/versatile breed. All my running dogs naturally hunt for me and stay in check. If they can't hear me they come to see me. There are 4 pointers and 2 setters standing in the kennel right now and 5 of them are going to stay 200+ yards all the time. The Nickel bred pointer I've been running is going to stay 400+ almost all the time but he always makes sure I'm around. Curious how he will work up north. I turned him loose in Pike county and he made a 900 yard cast once. I'm really thankful for the Garmin. He stayed the rest of the day around 400.

I'm sure Grouseguy's dogs are doing the same thing, covering the country looking for birds but always keeping in touch.

I understand people like different things. I still get a kick out of people who want a bootlicker but are still quick to tell the Ch shooting dog in their dog's pedigree.

Good comments, brett!!!

I especially agree with the part I bolded above. In retrospect, I had a few dogs in my 20's and early 30's that never reached their full potential due to me being "whistle happy" keeping them reined in closer to gun range from conventional wisdom/bad advice of the day.

Also, I laughed at the flusher comment. I've had a number of clients show up with labs, etc. to go grouse hunting, and I tell them "It's your money and your day, and if you want to hunt behind a flusher that's your choice, but that IS NOT the way this game is played.", and then go on to explain the advantages of a big running pointing dog. USUALLY, they insist on hunting their flushers, but change their minds around lunch time and ask to hunt with the setters in the afternoon ... if they've booked a 2nd day, they have ALWAYS (so far) left their flushers in the box.

 

[ribsplitter]

Personally I like for my dogs to run at the edge of beeper range or just beyond it. I have hunted behind alot of dogs as alot on here have but after pretty much hunting with every style and variety I will take a big running setter or pointer over the rest combined. Not to say I havent done well with other styles I started off with friends years ago hunting behind some of the finest close working brittanys a man could ask for . As for my dogs changing range due to cover density, I tend to go along with my dogs adjusting there range by the number of birds there making contact with in a general area. I have hunted high a low years in the north and in ky,oh,wv. (Mostly low in the latter) .. The whole key to producing birds for the bag is having a staunch dog the you trust on a bird . If that dog stands the bird youll get just as close to the bird walking in from 300 yards as you will from 50. If your dog moves on a bird to relocate your in for a long trip but youll still find alot more birds overall. Anyone who doesnt believe this , do some research on cover dogs and youll see what produces the most shootable birds in a cast. In the end its still all about personal preference and to each his own thats why there are all different breeds and styles of dogs within breeds . IMO what the GPS collar has done is give the owner freedom to let those young dogs go and reach there potential where in the past you was worried they would get lost or run off on fur . You can keep an eye on them without being whistle crazy . I rarely say a word to any of my dogs unless the youngins get crazy . Plus with the new mapping cards it lets you get much deeper in the north woods where there are many more unhunted birds .

 

[grousec]

Personally I like for my dogs to run at the edge of beeper range or just beyond it. I have hunted behind alot of dogs as alot on here have but after pretty much hunting with every style and variety I will take a big running setter or pointer over the rest combined. Not to say I havent done well with other styles I started off with friends years ago hunting behind some of the finest close working brittanys a man could ask for . As for my dogs changing range due to cover density, I tend to go along with my dogs adjusting there range by the number of birds there making contact with in a general area. I have hunted high a low years in the north and in ky,oh,wv. (Mostly low in the latter) .. The whole key to producing birds for the bag is having a staunch dog the you trust on a bird . If that dog stands the bird youll get just as close to the bird walking in from 300 yards as you will from 50. If your dog moves on a bird to relocate your in for a long trip but youll still find alot more birds overall. Anyone who doesnt believe this , do some research on cover dogs and youll see what produces the most shootable birds in a cast. In the end its still all about personal preference and to each his own thats why there are all different breeds and styles of dogs within breeds . IMO what the GPS collar has done is give the owner freedom to let those young dogs go and reach there potential where in the past you was worried they would get lost or run off on fur . You can keep an eye on them without being whistle crazy . I rarely say a word to any of my dogs unless the youngins get crazy . Plus with the new mapping cards it lets you get much deeper in the north woods where there are many more unhunted birds .

I agree. I don't run GPS on my dogs, but I want a grouse dog that will run to edge of bell beeper range and a little beyond.
Dogs must be stanch and I don't allow my dogs to relocate on their own. I want then to point to stay (or until I say). Not that a dog can't do that without my command but because I want the dog staunch.
But it is a matter of choice!

 

[GSP]

I really like the GPS units. The edge of bell or beeper with my hearing is about 12 yards. That is if no wind blowing.

 

[ribsplitter]

I really like the GPS units. The edge of bell or beeper with my hearing is about 12 yards. That is if no wind blowing.

Yea but I know youve got eyes like a hawk ever since you saved me from being inpaled by a 12 ga. shell wad.

 

[brettfrancis1]

I like ribsplitter's comment on changing range according to density of birds. Funny how they will run big and then get into some birds and turn into a 20 yard dog.