HeadedWest
10 pointer
- Nov 22, 2016
- 1,675
Cool. Where from?
Here We Go Again (22-23)
- Thread starter Bowfinger
- Start date
WMAallDAY
6 pointer
I was wondering if/when they were gonna drop a pair. ETA?
HeadedWest
10 pointer
- Nov 22, 2016
- 1,675
Saw this on The Refuge…definitely worth the watch. Literally.
43-1:12 at the very least.
GPS DUCK DATA
43-1:12 at the very least.
GPS DUCK DATA
WMAallDAY
6 pointer
Interesting data.
Makes me really think about how effective running traffic is. Based on these findings, good luck.
We’ve all thought, where are they going/coming from? As suspected, feed-safety. Safety-feed. No deviations.
And after really thinking about it, I’m probably just gonna quit.
I saw the west Tn Waterfowl study U Tube presentation a few weeks ago and sent a link to it it to some of the posters here. It is pretty hard for anyone to reasonably argue about a lot of the "myths" surrounding duck movements and migrations in the face of the facts presented in this referenced video. I think any duck hunter in western KY might be quite interested in it and urge you to watch it.
B.M. Barrelcooker
12 pointer
It definitely puts data behind what is really going on.
So in order to change the current scenario do we:
1. Create more and smaller rest areas that are closer to each other (2-3 miles)
2. Put more breaks in the season.
3. Stop providing food on refuges and just provide safe rest areas
4. Hunt less
5. Change the limit structure
6. Only hunt a certain percentage of daylight hours .
Or do we just keep doing what we are doing because it’s what we’ve always done?
I really don’t know and I guess I’m ok with how things are but would like to see whatever is best for both the hunters and the ducks.
Good conversation between the managers and conservationist and the hunters should be had.
So in order to change the current scenario do we:
1. Create more and smaller rest areas that are closer to each other (2-3 miles)
2. Put more breaks in the season.
3. Stop providing food on refuges and just provide safe rest areas
4. Hunt less
5. Change the limit structure
6. Only hunt a certain percentage of daylight hours .
Or do we just keep doing what we are doing because it’s what we’ve always done?
I really don’t know and I guess I’m ok with how things are but would like to see whatever is best for both the hunters and the ducks.
Good conversation between the managers and conservationist and the hunters should be had.
HeadedWest
10 pointer
- Nov 22, 2016
- 1,675
1) I was suprised to hear that habitat fragmentation/lack of connectivity is potentially part of the problem. Obvious for land animals but I assumed birds would trade back and forth between refuges more. I’m all for more suitable habitat, but not at the expense of access.
2) Not sure if this is serious or not but I am all for it…The man in the know (@Downeaster) has pointed out that this creates excessive pressure that doesn’t correlate to higher hunter success. That being said, I’m still convinced they got rid of our zones to eliminate extra paperwork.
3)I don’t hunt a a good enough area to have an opinion on this other than knowing that there are plenty of areas off limits to hunting and lacking the food component that can keep birds in an area.
4) Kids are taking care of that for me…but I don’t see that as a good solution for others.
5) Yes.
6) Spoken like a man that has ducks. If it ain’t happening at daylight here, it probably ain’t happening…Successful late morning and afternoon hunts are enjoyable, but I’ve only had success out of state.
Just fascinating data all around…hope to see some of what the other states in the flyways follow up with.
B.M. Barrelcooker
12 pointer
On 6 I was thinking along the lines of stopping hunting at noon or something like they do on public in Arkansas…….they also have a more restrictive limit on some wma’s.
I don’t think there should be separate rules for public and private though. It should be standard across the board.
Hunting mornings only would probably encourage the ducks to move more and give them a break.
I’m sure there would be backlash from both public and private hunters.
Bowfinger
10 pointer
3
The answer has always been 3
bigpuddin43
12 pointer
this data shows why shooting roosts in central ky is slowly killing our duck hunting around here. most are privately held and people throw money at the landowners to hunt then ruin an entire area just to get a few good hunts out of it.
bigpuddin43
12 pointer
also I would love to see similar data done in central ky where we have roosts that isnt loaded with food. i think you would see that a rest area that isnt loaded with food will hold the birds long term as long as they have that rest area but the birds will fly out to feed more often than they do on these refuges that have everything they need.
smashdn
12 pointer
A)There are fewer ducks coming down as compared to years past. Both from a pure abundance standpoint and a distribution standpoint.
B) There is a "gap" between the earlier migrants (grey ducks, teal, wood ducks, pintails) and the heartier, more weather-driven migrants (mallards, black ducks, some divers) and that gap, for whatever reason hangs out right over KY most years.
Search "weekly duck migration forecast" on youtubes. He quit putting out his forecast because he determined what, for the most part weather and temperature-wise, caused ducks to move. Watch a few of them though and you get the gist.
This isn't rocket science but a grey duck or wigeon needs relatively ice free shallow water to find food. A mallard can sit in an eddy on a flowing creek or river and either find enough food there to get by or can hang in relative safety till they fly to a corn field (flooded or dry) and eat. A mallard is more similar to a goose than it is to a wigeon in that regard. That late october/early november front we usually get blows a lot of those early migrants on south. We may even pick up a fair number of mallards too then. But you guys know, the habitat isn't usually as good then as stuff is still pretty dry. And there just isn't a ton of ground holding water at the right depth over a large enough swath to be attractive for long. I don't know whether the mallards then push on south or bounce back north but they thin out.
Watch the Missouri river. That latitude roughly along the line between Kansas City and St. Louis holds a mess-load of mallards throughout the season but especially from the seond week of december onward. Lots of clubs and crop ground (stuff to eat). Lots of hard to hunt areas on the river itself. Lots of refuges and CA's too.
So for the guys west of the purchase parkway, a good chunk of your mallards are hanging up in missouri. Wyle E. always talked about the front jumpers. I believe they are a thing. But I didn't see them where I am at along I-65. What I could count on was one or two days after ohio and Pennsylvania got hit with whatever winter storm was moving eastward I would start to see "new ducks." I have a place I look when I am gauging whether new birds have shown up. Good habitat but the birds are easily disturbed there. I know when I see birds there that they have just shown up and haven't been bumped to more secluded places.
I rambled.
B) There is a "gap" between the earlier migrants (grey ducks, teal, wood ducks, pintails) and the heartier, more weather-driven migrants (mallards, black ducks, some divers) and that gap, for whatever reason hangs out right over KY most years.
Search "weekly duck migration forecast" on youtubes. He quit putting out his forecast because he determined what, for the most part weather and temperature-wise, caused ducks to move. Watch a few of them though and you get the gist.
This isn't rocket science but a grey duck or wigeon needs relatively ice free shallow water to find food. A mallard can sit in an eddy on a flowing creek or river and either find enough food there to get by or can hang in relative safety till they fly to a corn field (flooded or dry) and eat. A mallard is more similar to a goose than it is to a wigeon in that regard. That late october/early november front we usually get blows a lot of those early migrants on south. We may even pick up a fair number of mallards too then. But you guys know, the habitat isn't usually as good then as stuff is still pretty dry. And there just isn't a ton of ground holding water at the right depth over a large enough swath to be attractive for long. I don't know whether the mallards then push on south or bounce back north but they thin out.
Watch the Missouri river. That latitude roughly along the line between Kansas City and St. Louis holds a mess-load of mallards throughout the season but especially from the seond week of december onward. Lots of clubs and crop ground (stuff to eat). Lots of hard to hunt areas on the river itself. Lots of refuges and CA's too.
So for the guys west of the purchase parkway, a good chunk of your mallards are hanging up in missouri. Wyle E. always talked about the front jumpers. I believe they are a thing. But I didn't see them where I am at along I-65. What I could count on was one or two days after ohio and Pennsylvania got hit with whatever winter storm was moving eastward I would start to see "new ducks." I have a place I look when I am gauging whether new birds have shown up. Good habitat but the birds are easily disturbed there. I know when I see birds there that they have just shown up and haven't been bumped to more secluded places.
I rambled.
bigpuddin43
12 pointer
I personally believe that no till has stopped as many birds as refuges. before no till every field in the midwest was tilled under every fall. now all that food lays there for the taking and the only time we get a sizeable migration outside of the early birds is if we have measurable snowfall to cover up the food in the fields. most fields in the dakotas and wisconsin still get tilled and birds seam to stack up in northern Illinois about were no till is prevalent.
hunt-4-life21
12 pointer
I haven't hunted as long as some of you (14 seasons, I believe) but I kill way more ducks now than I used to. I feel like I see more ducks now than we used to. Part of the reason is I go to where the ducks are and hunt when ducks should fly. Of course there's days when I'm home and have nothing else better to do than go grind out a windless, cloudy, 50 degree morning. I didn't have a great season but still killed way more ducks than I did from 2010-2015. Kill-wise, it's probably top 4.
I think for us in KY, it's 75% weather related and 25% pressure. There are no other factors anymore, imo. If you get fronts and weather, ducks will move. But it's taken weather this season to make them move. I bet I didn't shoot 10 ducks on a blue bird, sunny day this year. The pressure is what's making ducks get stale so quickly. We witnessed ducks act in December like they act in late January. That's all pressure.
Supposedly, duck numbers were here. Now, the question is, can Fuge managers count or are those ducks just not moving unless conditions make them move? That's the question. Birds were here most of the season but it was the same ducks from the first full moon in December/Christmas that we leaned on all year. If we had 2 more (maybe 3) front, I think season would've been great. But from December 31st on, these ducks were stale.
How do we fix that? Manage pressure is the only way. I don't think you can say "well, let's change bag limits to change that" especially in Kentucky. More splits would help but those splits are going to fall into some good days too. The federal framework won't allow more splits. Heck, most of the federal framework on migratory birds is outdated anyway. Just a few rambling thoughts.
I think for us in KY, it's 75% weather related and 25% pressure. There are no other factors anymore, imo. If you get fronts and weather, ducks will move. But it's taken weather this season to make them move. I bet I didn't shoot 10 ducks on a blue bird, sunny day this year. The pressure is what's making ducks get stale so quickly. We witnessed ducks act in December like they act in late January. That's all pressure.
Supposedly, duck numbers were here. Now, the question is, can Fuge managers count or are those ducks just not moving unless conditions make them move? That's the question. Birds were here most of the season but it was the same ducks from the first full moon in December/Christmas that we leaned on all year. If we had 2 more (maybe 3) front, I think season would've been great. But from December 31st on, these ducks were stale.
How do we fix that? Manage pressure is the only way. I don't think you can say "well, let's change bag limits to change that" especially in Kentucky. More splits would help but those splits are going to fall into some good days too. The federal framework won't allow more splits. Heck, most of the federal framework on migratory birds is outdated anyway. Just a few rambling thoughts.
bigpuddin43
12 pointer
pressure is what kills us. the birds require a safe place to roost as we dont have any refuges around. 4 years ago guys leased the roost in one area I hunt. used to be my best spot we would routinely kill 40-50 ducks a year off that place no matter the weather. but once they started hunting the roost our numbers plummeted. we havent killed a duck there in two years now. I know of 3 other areas I have seen this happen in. Greedy duck hunters that cant leave a few hundred or few thousand birds a place to feel safe ruins entire areas of good hunting.
