Going on my first Coyote hunt...

Discussion in 'Varmint Hunting' started by SniperNoor, Jul 19, 2011.

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  1. SniperNoor

    SniperNoor Spike

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    May 30, 2009
    Hey everyone just wondering if there is any pointers on how to get these suckers, I have never hunted just coyotes, I have seen some during deer season. I am going out on Sunday in the evening. The farmer told me he has been seing them like crazy and their everywhere. So does anyone recommend any info, like if I should get calls or whatnot.


    Also I plan on using a rifle, probably .233 or .308 and probably a shotgun. Just wondering if there is restrictions on ammo capacity? I know thier allowed but the booklet did not say if thier is a capaicty restriction. Reason I am asking before anyone jumps the gun and asks why I am taking a gun that holds more than five rounds, Its because I have a FNAR, that I would like to try out, and until my 5 round and 10 rounds come in, all I have is the 20 round mag.


    Any input is great! Thanks
     
  2. riverboss

    riverboss 12 pointer

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    northern ky
    There is no round limit you are good to go it 10 rds for deer now im not sure on shotguns i would think you wouldnt need a plug as long as there werent any other seasons open.
     
  3. Mike Dwyer

    Mike Dwyer 6 pointer

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    Maybe some of the forum folks here can explain coyote hunting to me. I've done a fair amount of research and talked to two different wildlife biologists with the KDFWR and no one has been able to convince me that coyotes are a problem and need to be shot. Yes, I understand that some farmers lose livestock and in those cases I am okay with culling. What about the rest of the time? Are people simply hunting them for the pelts? Bragging rights?

    Like most hunters I only kill what I am willing to eat so coyotes have never interested me. Just trying to get my head around the ethics of hunting them.
     
  4. DJONES

    DJONES 6 pointer

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    Jun 9, 2010
    Meade County, Kentucky
    If it was me and the farmer has been seeing them everywhere I would find a place to sit tight and wait. Maybe take a fawn in distress call and try it if you don't see anything. I only have 1 to my name that I have called in, so my info may not be the best.

    Mike, everyone has their reasons and coyote hunting is not for everyone. Me, I like the thrill of the game between me and the coyotes and so far they have beat me badly. Coyotes and crows are the only thing I hunt that I don't eat and I don't have a problem with hunting them. Just my 2 cents. Dave
     
  5. cityslicker

    cityslicker 8 pointer

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    I hunt for the thrill I get knowing that when I'm calling that animal it is hunting me. It's got nothing to do with bragging rights, but the sense of accomplishment that I fooled one of the smartest creatures out there. I make no apologies for hunting and killing coyotes, I do it because I like it and if someone wants to talk ethics then that's their problem.
     
  6. SniperNoor

    SniperNoor Spike

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    May 30, 2009
    Well the reason I am hunting them is because where the farmer lives, thier is a abundance of coyotes and they have killed some dogs and some of the neighbors have little kids and thier now afraid that they cannot let thier children play due the coyotes running around. I have never hunted them but I would like too, though I am not hunting them for meat, I am hunting them to solve a problem that they are causing. I understand where you are coming from though.

    Just looked it up, the shotgun has to have a max capacity of 3 rounds and still nothing on mag capacity on rifles, I saw a article written stating that thier is none....

    Thanks for the input, I may hop in my treestand there or on top of the barn and see what happens.

    They are smart, I know that for sure!
     
  7. JDMiller

    JDMiller 12 pointer

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    " Between the Rivers "
    In todays society....the primary pupose of hunting yotes is to control populations.....same as with any hunting and no one really has to explain, justify or apoligize for participating in a legal activity.
     
  8. Mike Dwyer

    Mike Dwyer 6 pointer

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    JD Miller - if you'll re-read my comment I think i took great care to say that I was simply trying to understand the logic behind killing coyotes when it isn't for meat or to protect livestock. I never asked for an apology from someone. i'm just interested in understanding why some hunters pursue these animals.

    I have friends who hunt coyotes. They claim that it is to preserve other game animals like turkey, deer and rabbit for human hunters. Personally I don't think we have exclusive rights to wild game. I don't understand the logic of killing coyotes simply for the fun of killing them - but i'm not passing judgement on those that do.

    Hunting is a sport of unique ethics and if we want our sport to survive we have to be able to defend it against those that would take it away. Explaining our motivations is part of that in my opinion. No, we don't HAVE to explain ourselves but it's prudent to take the initiative before PETA or the Humane Society try to do it for us.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  9. JDMiller

    JDMiller 12 pointer

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    " Between the Rivers "
    I may have read more into your post than intended .....but considering its only your 4th post on this site...which is a hunting forum is asking why we hunt yotes ..... seems a little off the mark. Almost PETA like and honestly...still have my concerns...which I hope are unwaranted. Especially with the strong emphasis made on killing an animal you cant eat. Seems the last time I checked the majority of fur bearers.... beavers, coons, possums...skunks....are not necessarily regular table fare to most but for various reasons they are trapped / hunted & killed on a regular basis.

    As I stated earlier ......the primary reason ...or better said...privlage to hunt... is to control populations. Regardless of the animal ...all seasons are established by this one factor. Too many or not enough equates to how liberal the length & limits the season is. Coyote populations vary across the state but being a non-native species to Ky and KDF&WR's are very liberal in allowance to hunt them. So....as long as the hunter is legal / using legal methods....there is no justification necessary. If you dont want to hunt them...dont ...its that simple.

    You also stated in your first reply to this thread ...you have done a fair amount of research.... talked to KDF&WR's bioligist.....and in a nutshell not convinced that coyotes are a problem and need to be shot.

    Well....I dont know how much research...or hunting you have done ...but you would probably be in the minority with your thoughts. That said....I have a great deal of respect for the coyote but it does'nt take much research or experiences in the field to understand. Bioligist across the country are split on the impacts to deer heards & other wildlife but the more research surfacing is somewhat negetive...and yotes are having greater impact than first thought. Hopefully you can gain an understanding.


    Check out this thread and pay close attention to the first post / picture.... http://www.kentuckyhunting.net/forums/showthread.php?106544-Coyote-Fawn

    and heres an interesting artcle to add to your research....

    How Coyotes Affect Deer Herds

    By Patrick Durkin

    After listening all day to university researchers and agency biologists discuss problems caused by whitetail overabundance in some Eastern and Southern states, professor Valerius Geist of Canada opened his evening address with a prediction: “Enjoy your problem while it lasts, because the coyote is coming. Once he’s here, you’ll miss your deer problems.”

    That was in 1994 in Charlottesville, Va., at the annual Southeast Deer Study Group meeting. Nearly 17 years later, with new studies documenting fawn losses to the Southeast’s growing coyote population, some biologists say Geist had a point, though perhaps it was overstated. Some even think coyotes threaten some herds. “If coyotes are not yet a problem on your hunting property, they will be in a few years,” said Mark Buxton, a wildlife manager with Southeastern Wildlife Habitat Services in Thomaston, Ala., last July at the Quality Deer Management Association’s annual convention in Louisville, Ky.

    “We’ve long talked about food plots, timber-stand improvements and restoring native vegetation so deer can maximize their potential,” said Buxton, who has managed hunting properties for 23 years. “The coyote is the next big part of that equation.”
    Wildlife researchers say the coyote is so new to the Southeast that it generates more questions than answers. This adaptable predator, which isn’t native to the region, didn’t appear there until the 1960s; in fact, South Carolina didn’t have coyotes until the 1980s. A few years later, from 1997 through 2006, the state’s deer herd declined 36 percent. Was that a coincidence? Answering such questions remains speculative, says professor Karl Miller at the University of Georgia.

    Professor Stephen Ditchkoff at Auburn University in Alabama agrees. Ditchkoff and his graduate students see coyote problems firsthand at an Alabama site where they’re using GPS-equipped collars to study deer movements. When they started the study five years ago, they seldom lost a fawn to predation. But in 2008 they lost 17 of 50 fawns (34 percent) they collared, and in 2009 they lost more than half. They attribute most of the losses to coyotes; also, an Auburn study on fawn survival at a South Carolina military base found that coyotes killed eight out of nine fawns.

    Miller has co-authored much of the Southeast’s recent research on coyotes. In one study in southwestern Georgia, the university compared fawn-to-doe ratios in two areas: an 11,000-acre area where trappers removed 23 coyotes and three bobcats, and a 7,000-acre area where no trapping was done. The trapped area had two fawns for every three does, while the un-trapped area had two fawns for every 28 does.Miller also watches with interest ongoing coyote studies by the U.S. Forest Service at South Carolina’s Savannah River Site. Researchers reported 75 percent of the site’s fawns die before they’re six weeks old, with coyotes likely responsible for 85 percent of the deaths.

    Miller, Ditchkoff and other researchers, however, say they need more research. “We have to assess if and where we have coyote problems, and what’s the best way to address them,” Miller said. “But are coyotes going to affect the future of deer hunting? I don’t think so. Texas has had coyotes a long time, and so have parts of the Midwest, Louisiana and Mississippi, and they still have plenty of deer. That being said, I suspect coyote densities are even higher in parts of the Southeast. We need more research so we can offer specific, well-informed management decisions.”

    Ditchkoff thinks coyotes have reached saturation levels in many parts of the Southeast, but that doesn’t mean deer hunting is imperiled. “I think this will eventually level off and stabilize,” he said. “Hunting will be part of the mix, but we have to figure out what the new model will be for deer management.”

    Coyote-fawn predation has long been viewed as opportunistic and random; that is, fawns were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Buxton believes it’s not random on a 2,000-acre property he manages. In three months in spring 2009, he trapped 20 coyotes and seven bobcats from 1,500 acres, starting roughly a month before fawning began. After 12 months, he had trapped 49 coyotes. He then trapped 14 more coyotes during the 2010 fawning season. In total, he caught 34 of 63 coyotes (54 percent) during fawning months. “That tells me coyotes are targeting fawns,” Buxton said. “When fawns start hitting the ground, it’s game-on for coyotes.”

    Ditchkoff doesn’t discount the idea. “When coyotes saturate an area, there’s increased competition for resources and the potential for major dietary changes,” he said. “Coyotes might have learned to identify doe behaviors that indicate fawns are nearby. That’s not unheard of. In Alaska, they’ve documented that when a cow moose acts in a way that indicates a calf is nearby, brown bears start a systematic search to find the calf. They just hammer moose calves.”

    Miller, however, cautioned that it’s important not to draw regional conclusions from site-specific research. “The coyote is a complex predator,” he said. “It will eat just about anything, including fruits and vegetables, and its diet changes by location and season. The Southeast has a mosaic of different habitat types, so there’s a lot here to figure out.”

    Though the coyote is not indigenous to areas east of the Mississippi River, it now inhabits all of the Lower 48. Deer managers and hunters are still learning how to deal with coyotes for the good of deer herds and ecosystems.
     
  10. Mike Dwyer

    Mike Dwyer 6 pointer

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    JD Miller,

    I've actually been reading the RSS feed for this site for a long time to get my KDFWR news. Apparently the feed just got changed and I started seeing forum posts. The coyote one got my attention because it's a personal interest of mine - so I left a comment. I'm not trolling and I'm certainly not a secret agent for PETA. I've been hunting in the bluegrass for over 20 years.
    The article you posted is interesting but the conclusion seems to contradict your assertions. It states:

    Now if coyote populations suddenly spiral out of control and they pose a real threat (re: wolves out West) I will be happy to help with the culling as part of being a responsible part of the hunting and wildlife management community. But I remain unconvinced. Please read here the email I received from KDFWR in 2009 when I asked them about hunting coyotes:


    I think the third paragraph is key with regards to coyote hunting. It’s popular and people simply enjoy the challenge/thrill of shooting them. If someone is the kind of hunter where thrill trumps meat for the freezer – then by all means have at it. It’s just not for me and my personal opinion is that it’s unethical.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2011
  11. Mike Dwyer

    Mike Dwyer 6 pointer

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    I was happy to read the responses to that post you linked to, especially this comment from dxtsniper:

     
  12. JDMiller

    JDMiller 12 pointer

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    Jun 12, 2005
    " Between the Rivers "
    Mr Dwyer...... honestly I really dont care what your opinion is.

    Your posting on a hunting forum ....in the varmint hunting section..... basically a troll jacking a legitimate posters thread asking legitament questions on coyote hunting. It appears nothing more than a feeble attempt to persuade people that its unethical(your own words) to hunt coyotes.

    I honestly dont know what fairytale land you live in but coyotes are non-native predators to Ky. They have killed countless family pets...livestock.... and can have a detrimental effect on other wildlife. Hunting coyotes is a enjoyable sport and aids in keeping coyote populations in check . So be it for sport...pelts....managing your property for other wildlife..... controlling predators has its place in the hunting community.

    In itself hunting is a blood sport..... all of it.

    It takes an elitist hunter to thumb his nose at other types of hunting.... and does as much harm as PETA or any other animal rights activist.

    So as far as I'm concerned you can take your self righteous opinion...blogs / spam... animal rights BS ....to another site.
     
  13. cityslicker

    cityslicker 8 pointer

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Hart county
    My thoughts exactly. I hunt coyotes because I can and I don't care who it offends. Dwyer, go crawl back in your troll hole...
     
  14. Mike Dwyer

    Mike Dwyer 6 pointer

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Louisville, KY
    Mr. Miller –

    *sigh* It’s so easy to sling names and dismiss contrary opinions. I’m used to seeing San Francisco liberals calling people trolls when conversations get difficult but I guess I thought my fellow Kentucky outdoorsmen were made of tougher stuff. Maybe I was wrong?

    It's called a CONVERSATION and if you are that insecure about discussing hunting ethics then feel free not to participate. Maybe someone else on the forum is up for it and won’t be so quick to take the easy way out. I’m curious though – do you object to ALL conversations about hunting ethics or just this one? Or is it just because I am the new guy? Or did I not phrase my objections in a way that you like?

    Having a different opinion about coyote hunting doesn't make me 'self righteous' any more than it would if I said I prefered Mossbergs over Remingtons so spare me the hysterics. And yes, I believe in animal rights. So should any good hunter. That's why we honor bag limits and hunting seasons and do 'ethical' things like track wounded deer or stomp brush looking for crippled birds.
     
  15. Jimmie in Ky

    Jimmie in Ky 12 pointer

    Mr Dwyer, what about your rights?

    Don't you have any? Are you willing to give what you have away? And I am not talking only about your right to hunt here. I am speaking of anything you own. Is it OK for thieves to take your posessions?

    Many of us got into this to protect what we own. And we found something that is far more invigorating than hunting a deer or squirrel for meat. Something that intrigues us beyond anything you have ever felt in pursuit of wild game for the table. A challenge that connot be matched by anything I have hunted yet in my lifetime.

    I know the coyote as well or better than most on this board. Yet I have been hoodwinked and bamboozled by a young female with her first litter recently.How do I know this about her? I know my area and the territories of all the groups in it. She was being teased for breeding on february 15 of this year on my property, which has always been on the fringes of a couple of diferent groups. Yet she and her mate decided that this area between groups would be perfect for them. She would not have had a litter if I had been carrying a shotgun instead of a chainsaw that afternoon.

    She has developed a taste for my sweetcorn. They have made quite a mess and taught me a few things about my own ground I did not know until now. I have yet to draw a bead on her, but have had some limited success in changing her mind. Yet she is learning as fast as I am.

    In this economic climate it is almnost impossible for me to find a job at my age. I have been 3 years without steady work. That garden means a lot more to us than just something to do. It supplies most of our groceries throughout the year. So you can see I am far from happy with her and her mate. She has cost me dollars and food stolen from my plate. This is going on all over the coyotes range as we speak. Farmers are loosing dollars and food from their kids plates all across this nation. E verything is on hte coyotes menu, not just small fuzzy critters. I have personally seen what happens to a deer herd when coyote populations peak, it's devistating to all wildlife. And yet at the same time I am amazed at this animals abilites and wish only to learn more about them.

    The coyote has no predator other than man and disease. Disease cycles are not enough to keep their numbers in check. And man has proven he can barely keep up if at all. Coyotes have killed more than 85 people at last count I had, including one young adult female in canada. And these numbers will continue to grow as they become more aclimated to habitation among humans. If yoiu chack UTube, you can find videos of a fool in a L.A. park feeding several of them. Teaching them that humans and food go together like ham and eggs. I also have a 2 year old grandson who loves the woods as much as I do. What about his rights to live. What about the rights of all the children killed by coyotes already in hte U.S. and Canada?

    It may seem unethical to you, but in My book the ethics are very clear to me. Jimmie
     
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