Fort Knox, what the h!@# happened?

[Bonecollector]

I have been an area guide for area 59 at Ft. Knox for 14 years and this was by far the worse harvest ever and the worst season ever. In 3 weekends we had 3 bucks checked in and 4 does. Normally we have 10 to 15 checked in the first weekend. According to the zone leader, check point 1 had zero deer checked on the second Sunday and single digits yesterday. One of our companion hunters took a 14 inch 8 point(his best deer, he's only been hunting 4 years) and I accompanied him to the deer check station. When we got there, all I seen being checked were immature bucks and does, except one nice 10 point out of area 10 (140-145 class). I was also told there had been 2 good bucks taken out of Cedar Creek and one nice buck out of area 5.

What has happened? We usually look forward to taking good deer and seeing good numbers. This year it was if Aliens abducted the deer heard. I witnessed zero chasing and the bucks I seen were 1.5 year olds and were by themselves. Something is fishy. I saw 9 different legal bucks last year before taking a 135 class 8 point. Either the military is killing them, they are dying off from disease, they packed up and moved to the closed areas, or aliens really did abduct them. Regardless, the hunts sucked. What I find funny is that folks were seeing bucks all over during bow season and when the gun season opened, it was if we were hunting ghosts. There was tracks, dropings, scrapes, heavily beat trails, but no deer.
Last year there was over 2000 deer taken off Fort Knox, the goal this year was 1400, I bet they didn't make 900. Anyone else have anything to add? Statistics, opinions, or testimonies?

Oh and by the way, does anyone no where they found those guys who age the deer at the check station? One of the bucks taken in our area was a 17" wide 8 point with 3.5 inch bases and 8.5 inch G2's and 5 inch G3's, mainbeams maybe 20 inches. The aging guru said he was 7.5. The deer weighed 116#. 7.5 my A#$! Maybe 2.5, 3.5 max. Then we had another 14" 8 point with 8.5 inch G2's, 6 inch G3's, 3.5 inch bases, and 18-19 inch main beams that the man claimed was 3.5. I know they look at teeth wear, but shoud that overide common sense. Not to mention Fort Knox deer have to wear teeth quicker than in most other places. All they have to eat is rocks and spent shell casings.[]

 

[mcdenney]

Bonecollector,

Can't say I know much about Fort Knox as I have only hunted it a couple times but what you are talking about is what I have experienced all season this year. This has been one strange season for me. Extremely frustrating. I killed three bucks last year over 130 inches (KY Bow, Texas Rifle, Ohio Muzzleloader). I can't even seeom to get close to a deer this year. I think overall numbers are down this year based upon the areas that I hunt. Some would disagree but something is bad wrong in my opinion.

 

[Multidigits]

Ft. Knox has simply killed too many does in past years. When they went with the Trophy Deer Program, on advice from the Dept., they started issuing 2 tags each. The intent was to kill down the herd so that he bucks can have more to eat. You have to call it a success. Before the weekend hunt, there had been roughly 800 deer killed, counting the archery season and Youth hunt. The weekend total couldn't have been much. Most of the areas coming through CK.Pt. 12 didn't have but 2 or 3 total. We had one, although my hunter mostly all saw some deer. Most didn't want to mess with does in all the mud. Some only saw small bucks. Plus, it takes hunters moving to kill our deer, and we had more No shows than hunters. I suspect Ft. Knox will take a mild hit next year on guys sending them $25 to hunt.

 

[Xtreme]

Well Bone, I bow hunted Knox a total of probably three weeks this year. Saw a lot of sign the early season and a decent number of does and illegal bucks[mostly spikes]. The week before state gun a lot of areas were closed and few deer were seen.

Knox gets pounded anymore with the loss of hunting ground adding up every day. Deer know to head to the impact areas where it's quiet. Also given the fact that civilian ground [hunter accesible] now surrounds Knox completely you then get a herd that is sure to drop.

I have some friends that own a farm next to Knox and they put out bait and food plots and kill 40 plus deer a year off the back of Yano. There are no wilderness's around post anymore.

All this adds up along with a crappy rut. Seeing sign but no deer I can live with. NOT seeing sign and no deer I can't. There are still more deer on post than where I hunt in the state.

I also think EHD has struck the state a lot harder than we know.

 

[.300Savage]

I hunted area 13 all day Sun., and didn't see one deer. I walked quite a bit, after getting out of my stand around 2, to take a look around. I covered a good chunk of the area around Otter Creek, the airfield, and areas to the east of the airfield, and I didn't see one rub, or one scrape. I saw 4 deer the 1st weekend and they were all does....and all in real thick cover. There were also 24 No-Shows in our area, which made the deer stay put. I will put in again next year, just for the chance of hunting another weekend in the season, but not sure on keeping the same hunting strategy. It bores me to death to sit in a stand for 8 hours straight and see nothing but squirrels. Even a glipse of a deer that was too far away, would have been fine with me. Oh, well....guess that's why it's called hunting.


Rocco

 

[Scrape_master]

Bonecollector/Multidigits,

Do you think that the warm weather and the amount of acorns the first two hunts and the full moon on the last hunt had any impact?

 

[omega-boy]

I was in area 15 this past weekend (Dec 6-7) We scouted Wednesday for about 5 hours (Boot tracks everywhere, alot of MRE bags, soldier training area) Saturday there were two Does killed, I seen 4 Does running together and I bet the biggest one was not much over 50-60 #'s, after someone unloaded on them, the smallest of the bunch ran in front of my stand and was about 40 #'s, I did see a big coyote, but couldnt get a shot off. This is by far the worst Ft Knox weekend we have ever had in the dozen or so years that we have hunted, if Hunt Control relies on the $25.00 fee from hunters for hunting/fishing income, I think they are in trouble. I would like to see a reply from them on this talked about subject. When we were leaving a hunter from area 14 said no deer were checked in that area as of when he left? I am not for sure??

 

[Bonecollector]

The full moon never helps since the deer feed all night and bed early, the amount of acorns was a factor because the deer did not need to move as far to feed, the warm weather may have inhibited normal day to day movement some, however that should have changed when does came into estrous. Temperature has nothing to do with an animals instinct to reproduce. I think we could have a larger problem state wide. Maybe a disease, or some natural phenomenon. I was fortunate to kill a nice buck this year but it wasn't due to the fact that I had many to choose from. I saw a total 7 bucks all season including Fort Knox. I saw maybe 40 does. Compare that to some 40 different bucks last year and 100's of does and things start not to make sense. I don't think the numbers are down on Knox due to the doe harvest or QDM, most guys in the past few years declined to kill does. Even this year we had 4 does killed in 3 weekends out of 80 hunters and most saw does. Let's be honest, most people come to Knox for horns not meat. The migration of deer into closed areas may be possible but every study done on such hypothesis has shown opposite results because deer are homing animals. Instead of moving, they are supposed to simply allude. But continuos pressure year after year could force them to the closed areas, Rick you may have a point. I also have a theory that deer are evolving as a result of the increase of human predation and are instinctively learning to restrict movement to hours of darkness more. I also think it is not too far fetched that deer, through evolution, have become increasing more detective of human scent, human predation, and ambush tactics. No different than the instincts they had that assisted them in surviving against the wolf and the mountain lion when they were the top of the food chain. Think about it folks, deer are one of the most adaptive animals in the world and animals don't acheive that status without the ability to evolve.
One other thing I wanted to mention to everyone is that I witnessed something odd at Knox involving a yearling doe that one of our party members had taken. The hunter was from out of town and had taken the doe on Saturday. On Sunday morning he noticed that the deer had worms coming out of its nose and called me over. These worms looked alot like over sized maggots or grub worms without the caterpiller like head. Now the weather was pretty cool, the meat should have kept the way he had it packed down with ice, their weren't any flyes buzzing, what kind of worm craws out of a dead deers nose? Could it be a parasite. I instructed him to stop back by the deer check station and inform the folks at hunt control.

 

[Valley Station]

Bonecollector,
We didn't see much in Area 59 during bow season, either. Area was open a lot during bow season, don't recall a single decent buck brought in. Several spent a weeks vacation "camped out" on top of main ridge, with no luck, very little sightings.[V]
I bow hunted "back" behind Lee pistol range, three(3) times, saw good sign, but,didn't see a single decent buck.[V][?]
This was also, our areas very worst season. We didn't take a single deer, the 3rd week end. Had (6) "no shows" Saturday and <u>no hunters Sunday.</u>
During the 3-weekend hunt, there were a grand total of (697) deer harvested at Ft Knox. Half of 2002 season harvest. [8]
Where ?? We had a lot of deer in our area at the end of last season?
Got me.

 

[Bonecollector]

Valley,

The Game Warden head Wallace shot one "Good" buck in 59 and lost it, and took another decent buck there. A friend of mine missed a good buck in 59 and another friend claimed to have seen seven differnet bucks in one hunt during bow season. There is always good sign behind the pistol range and usually plenty of deer. We didn't have many no shows especially the first two weekends. 697? thats all, pretty pitiful. The last time we had a poor harvest, back in the early 90's all the area guides got to hunt another weekend in any open area. We too had a lot of deer in our area at the end of 2002. Something stinks, and I bet Hunt Control knows what it is. However they wouldn't tell in fear of losing all the revenue generated by the hunting applications. One problem I see is that they over hunt areas like 59 all year. Why not open up some of the other areas and disperse the pressure. Or let us back in to Hayes Flats, Sugar Loaf and some of the other areas that are closed for absolutely no reason. I'm sick of all this ammunition hazard BS. They havent fired a live tank round off on post since the 70's. I firmly believe that the Gov. would be happy if every deer on post got CWD and died.
Have you guys checked out the reported harvests in the state? I think something also stinks there. There is know way that our harvests this year match last years. Everyone I have spoken to claim they had poor ruts in their areas and poor sightings. KFWD, as far as I am concerned is feeding the public(excuse me the auto insurance companies BS) or they have come up with a new calculation formula that accounts for all the deer that are not called in to telecheck.

 

[Scoony]

I hunted area 45 for the first two weekends. I seen a total of about 20 deer the entire weekend. The only bucks seen were too small. I would have been happy with a Doe, but never got a good shot as most were seen as I moved about.
One thing I have noticed is a decline of deer along Wilson road in the late afternoons/early nighttime. Last year you could see 20 deer easily across from the golf course. This year 5 deer was the most I seen at a time. There is a nice buck living up behind N.Dietz in the golf course area.

 

[rails and tails]

hunted area five, i saw 5 does on saturday and my buddy saw about 10 also and shot a very small doe. the deer killed sunday was shot just above where we were hunting. i took a couple of shots at an eight point with a solid white rack and grazed him but we blood trailed him to the boundary and he dropped over a ledge to otter creek. could not find him hope he was not hurt to bad not much blood

 

[Multidigits]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Scrape_master</i>
<br />Bonecollector/Multidigits,

Do you think that the warm weather and the amount of acorns the first two hunts and the full moon on the last hunt had any impact?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

No, warm weather effects the way people hunt, not the deer. If the deer don't move the hunters have to move them. When they don't or can't because of the no show hunters, then you'll have a low kill. Raion has the same effect, hunter don't move around much, and the deer don't either.

One thing that is consistant about Ft. Knox deer, that is that they know how to react to pressure. Still it's up to the hunters to move the deer, not hope that they move on their own, which they often don't do.

 

[Multidigits]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by omega-boy</i>
<br />I was in area 15 this past weekend (Dec 6-7) We scouted Wednesday for about 5 hours (Boot tracks everywhere, alot of MRE bags, soldier training area) Saturday there were two Does killed, I seen 4 Does running together and I bet the biggest one was not much over 50-60 #'s, after someone unloaded on them, the smallest of the bunch ran in front of my stand and was about 40 #'s, I did see a big coyote, but couldnt get a shot off. This is by far the worst Ft Knox weekend we have ever had in the dozen or so years that we have hunted, if Hunt Control relies on the $25.00 fee from hunters for hunting/fishing income, I think they are in trouble. I would like to see a reply from them on this talked about subject. When we were leaving a hunter from area 14 said no deer were checked in that area as of when he left? I am not for sure??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's fairly mormal for Area 15 to have poor deer hunting. I was Area guide there one year and glad to get out of it. It's fair during the archery hunt, but always bad during the gun season. Area 14 is a little better. I see deer cross between the two often when travelling through. During the week, that area will have troops in there 6 out of 7 days a week. It's a map reading crouse and used heavily. but it has some deer, they just move at night.

 

[Xtreme]

15 sucks. 14 is volumes better! I will differ on the weather however. Look at how deer rut in the south. It's a trickle compared to a full blown semi north/north rut. Once upon a time when I was in the paratroops and in mint condition I could not have even chased Mrs. x very far while dressed in a fur coat, warm weather and a gut full of acorns during 60 plus degree weather.[]

Yes Knox gives up a whopper every so often. It is not however a place where just anyone can drop in and kil a Booner, much less a doe.

If not for the fact that I live here I would not fool with it for it. Knox is just toooo hard to hunt on a whim.

It's a "home team" kind of place, those that live here of course have an advantage. If it's hard for us just think about the feller coming in blind?[:0]