Ethical verses Legal/Illegal

Discussion in 'Waterfowl Hunting' started by mmayes, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. mmayes

    mmayes 12 pointer

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    Aug 2, 2005
    Near Aintry
    I would like to hear peoples opinions on things that are both legal and illegal and if they feel its ethical or not.

    I do not have a problem with an unplugged gun (illegal) while waterfowl hunting. We have a limit to how many ducks we can kill a day. What does it matter how quickly one can kill them.

    I do not feel it is ethical on public ground to be able to use a spinner (Legal) as it can disrupt other peoples hunting, but have not problems with them on private ground.

    Lets hear some other people and what they feel. I am not starting an argument just want to see what others truly feel


    Mayes
     
  2. KyMike

    KyMike Spike

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    Aug 21, 2013
    Sitting duck/water swatting. I don't see anything more unethical about this than shooting a deer or turkey as they are standing and eating. We don't yell at them so they will start running or flying to make it sporting. That being said I am not a fan of it as quite often they still fly off and require a second shot.

    As for spinners I think they are ethical even on public ground. The same as other motorized decoys. Lots of hunters, dreadful calling and lack of concealment is a big part of that problem. Look at the Jenny hole. Spinners or not the pure amount of hunters in an area will change ducks behavior. Expand that to most wma's in the flyway and I'd say we should expect changed behavior. Oh and I'd rather have a jerk string than a spinner any day. Just my 2 pennies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  3. I don't think it is ethical to
    1. shoot a deer over a feeder
    2. shoot a turkey over a feeder (illegal i know)
    3. hunt with electronic aids like callers and decoys
    4. float the 4th shell. If you cant get them in 3 the 4th is just going to cripple a bird.

    I think it is crap the the following is legal
    1. flooding standing crops to hunt over. There is nothing natrual about this or a comman agricultral practice.
    2. Using electronic callers and decoys
     
  4. KyMike

    KyMike Spike

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    Aug 21, 2013
    Flooded corn!!!!- talk about changing bird behaviors. If the flooded corn up north was not holding so many birds we may not even be arguing about spinners.
     
  5. JDCraft123

    JDCraft123 6 pointer

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    Sep 10, 2014
    I agree that I personally would not shoot a deer over a feeder. I would never use any type of electronic aids. I am a bit apprehensive of using decoys for turkeys, but I will; even then I limit to just two.

    I also see nothing wrong with a hunter who is dreadfully concealed or a terrible caller. Guess what? That hunter will have to learn. If he doesn't kill ducks then he will look around and emulate those that are killing ducks. Duck hunting is such a dog eat dog world that no one will ever really help you, they will just panic and freak out at the boat dock. I've had it happen to me, guess what? I watched others and then learned and starting killing ducks.

    The bottomline is that people do not go hunting for the right reasons anymore. I'll go duck hunting to watch the sunrise on a lake and see the different colors throughout the area that even a painter couldn't capture. Or I'll go deer hunting in the woods and then be mesmerized that this creature that weighs 150 lbs can move through the woods so quiet and then crash and bang around so loudly when close to me; only to sneak away like a thief on the other side of the trees. I'd rather be freezing in a pair of waders with a half a dozen decoys out and watch one lone duck for the whole day decoy in than put out 6 dozen decoys and have a heater with coffee and a firing line of Hunters shooting indiscriminately at a flock. But again, that's just me. I don't judge these people and good for them, but I'd rather be more primitive in my hunting to get in touch with the less evolved creature deep inside of me. Hell if I could find a muzzleloading shotgun for less than 600 dollars, I'd use that instead.
     
  6. mmayes

    mmayes 12 pointer

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    Aug 2, 2005
    Near Aintry
    See even Mr Blond and I do not agree on everything. I have no problems with the floating the 4th I have seen quadruples killed when ducks got tight as well as the 4th used to dispatch a cripple.

    We also differ on the killing of deer. To me they are a nuisance animal much like a coyote kill them any way you like.

    I don't have a problem with flooding standing corn and hunting. Especially since almost all river ground that might flood is privately owned and leased now it seems.


    This is where we all have our ethics and what is considered good and bad.

    Mayes
     
  7. grnhd

    grnhd 6 pointer

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    Dec 6, 2009
    suwanee,ky
    Flooded corn! How can it be legal to flood corn to the ears but I cant dump a bag of corn because that's baiting. That's the biggest bullspit law there is.
     
  8. kyblackmallard

    kyblackmallard 10 pointer

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    Sep 18, 2006
    Grnhd and I do agree on something !
     
  9. bigpuddin43

    bigpuddin43 12 pointer

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    bucktown
    This thread is why things shouldn't be banned simply because someone else doesn't like it. It should only be banned if it has a chance to hurt the population.
     
  10. rcatron

    rcatron 8 pointer

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    Apr 12, 2010
    winchester, ky
    My gripe with flooded corn is I have no where to do it. If I could I probably would...but I need all the help I can get. I don't think it is unethical since a good deal of work goes into planting and maintaining the field. That opens a whole new dilemma though because I don't believe that just because you work for something it is therefore unethical.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  11. mmayes

    mmayes 12 pointer

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    Aug 2, 2005
    Near Aintry
    This thread is about what? When I posted it, it was about ethics verses legal illegal not why things should be banned.

    Mayes
     
  12. grnhd

    grnhd 6 pointer

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    Dec 6, 2009
    suwanee,ky
    I love flooded corn...if I'm hunting in it. But how is that not baiting? How is that legal? And I have no doubt that flooded corn has changed the migration habits of ducks, particularly mallards, in the past 10-15 years.
     
  13. Our guvment has been flooding corn fields for gunning up north for 50 years or more.

    Not to mention the private clubs that do it.

    It is some of the most productive hunting I have ever experienced at times for sure.

    My hunting buddy in MI got a ticket for baiting from having a corn fight out at Fish Point State Game Area.

    Luckily I was not there that day or I would have got one to.

    In essence, slow time and throwing cobs at each other to pass the time away.

    Green Jeans said he was clearly baiting birds even though he was standing in a guvment flooded corn field...

    Because he exposed the seeds to be visible to the birds.




    Here is their take:

    What is Legal?
    You can hunt waterfowl on or over or from:
    • Standing crops or flooded standing crops, including aquatic plants.
    • Standing, flooded, or manipulated natural vegetation.
    • Flooded harvested croplands.
    • Lands or areas where grains have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural
    planting, harvesting, or post-harvest manipulation.
    • Lands or areas where top-sown seeds have been scattered solely as the result of a normal
    agricultural planting, or a planting for agricultural soil erosion control or post-mining land
    reclamation.
    • A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with natural vegetation.
    • A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with vegetation from agricultural crops,
    provided your use of such vegetation does not expose, deposit, distribute or scatter grain or
    other feed.
    • Standing or flooded standing crops where grain is inadvertently scattered solely as the result of
    hunters entering or leaving the area, placing decoys, or retrieving downed birds. Hunters are
    cautioned that while conducting these activities, any intentional scattering of grain will create a
    baited area.
    What is Illegal?
    Some examples of areas where you cannot hunt waterfowl include:
    • Areas where grain or seed has been top-sown and the Cooperative Extension Service does not
    recommend the practice of top sowing (see section on wildlife food plots).
    • Crops that have been harvested outside of the recommended harvest dates established by the
    Cooperative Extension Service (including any subsequent post-harvest manipulations).
    • Unharvested crops that have been trampled by livestock or subjected to other types of
    manipulations that distribute, scatter, or expose grain.
    • Areas where grain is present and stored, such as grain elevators and grain bins.
    • Areas where grain is present for the purpose of feeding livestock.
    • Freshly planted wildlife food plots that contain exposed grain.
    • Croplands where a crop has been harvested and the removed grain is redistributed or “added
    back” onto the area where grown.
    • These examples do not represent an all-inclusive list of waterfowl baiting violations






     
  14. That is scratching the surface BTW.

    Think we need more rules/regs or restrictions?

    Feel the Feds and locals are so out of control on us already that if you give em an inch, they will gladly take a 100 miles.....

    How about set a reasonable limit, and then let me figure out how or not how to achieve it?

    How many folks who buy a permit even hunt 50% of the season?

    How many hunt 25%

    How many a hunt a few times only?

    The rules and regs we have to jump through would probably be considered entrapment in most courts of law for criminal offenses as the laws are so difficult to understand and adhere to.

    Can you imagine if even the common everyday driver on the road had to understand em to operate a motor vehicle??????

    Fortunately, most of us that are addicts to this sheet do our very best to try and adhere to em when err'ing on the side of caution instead of pulling the dam trigger....

    As I previously stated, if deer/big game hunters, non-waterfowl small game hunters, and any one else in the field had to adhere to and understand the current regs for us.

    There would be a whole lot less LEGAL hunters in the field.

    Ever figure Mr. Green Jeans has his watch out sitting on a levee for shooting times on rabbit hunters for a few minutes?????
     
  15. bigpuddin43

    bigpuddin43 12 pointer

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    Feb 21, 2007
    bucktown
    Flooded corn can happen naturally. A bottom of corn can flood without pumps and levees. If you make flooding it illegal then you make the natural occurrence illegal as well. That is why it's legal in my opinion. Also a grown crop once consumed is gone. Dumping corn you just dump more it never runs out. Also grown corn is scattered and only so much can possibly be produced per acre yet I can bring in grain trucks and just dump in a field. To me there is a huge difference. Not to mention the way ducks feed on a pile of corn compared to a large flooded field. In a field that has standing corn the ducks can land easily out of range feed and leave. In a pile of corn they are gonna land in range.

    Keep in mind seasons are set based on hunter success. If usfw thought everyone that hunted would kill 6 ducks everyday they hunted we would not have a 6 duck limit. Anything that would increase hunter success could decrease our limit.
     

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