EPA asking for $21 billion dollars to hire 230,000 new workers to handle paper work.

Discussion in 'Community Forum' started by 300winmag, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. buckfever

    buckfever 12 pointer

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    Harrods Creek Ky, USA.
    "Once you read 'get your facts straight' in a thread, you oughta quickly buckle your seatbelt, 'cuz the train wrecks a comin'".

    Little quote I just made up. :)

    Put aside all the regulation vs. statute stuff, do you REALLY believe that abolishing or eliminating the EPA would be good for America?

    And because China doesn't have any environmental regulations is why American should not? What about our kids? Regardless of what China is doing, don't we have any kind duty to preserve America for future generations?



    Sure, the EPA is completely out-of-control. We all get it, but it's mind boggling to me that anybody would ever truly think that eliminating the EPA in its entirety (which would affect air, water and ground contamination) would be a good thing for America.
     
  2. 300winmag

    300winmag 12 pointer

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    I also said in the original post "This radical department needs to be slowed down if not eliminated".

    Grown adults don't need over regulation from the EPA or OSHA or any of them.

    The main point was if any business needs to hire 230,000 employees to handle the added paperwork from their regulations then that business model is truly flawed.
     
  3. EKUgrad

    EKUgrad 10 pointer

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    Fan of [​IMG]
     

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  4. new guy

    new guy Banned

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    deep in the mountains

    says the guy who slaughtered thousands of indians to take their land. i wouldnt quote too many presidents as most of them are hypocrites
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  5. smashdn

    smashdn 12 pointer

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    Palmyra, Kentucky
    Opening salvo. Read on for the good stuff.

    You should start selling whatever drug you are on, it must be a doozy. You really deep down think that every coal company, every oil refinery, every manufacturing plant, every steel mill, and every plating operation is just going to use best practices and protect the environment out of the goodness of their hearts? If so that is just fantasy. I was the environmental person at the last place I worked. I can 100% gauruntee you that given the option they would trash their air permit, trash their NPDES permit, and trash their stormwater permit, and then burn their haz waste on site. You really must have no idea what it costs a company to remain complient with all those permits. And doing so adds nothing to the product going out the door but cost.

    If you were running a business and could eliminate 35% of your annual operating expense by not voluntarily continuing to adhere to permits enforced by no one would you? Of course you would.
     
  6. 300winmag

    300winmag 12 pointer

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    No drugs here, just conservatism. You don't get it; I believe that Me and my wife are the ONLY people able to make decisions about what is going on in our family's happenings. Not you as the "Environmental Person" at your last job, I'm an a adult and have common sense. I'm sick and tired of people who have drank the "environmental and safety" koolaid telling me what I should do.

    I work for a corporation that employs 50,000 people and the money that is wasted on environmental and safety is ridiculous.

    You cannot 100% guarantee what you said above, you're speaking through your political views not reality. Truth is you don't trust people to make their own decisions, you think you know better than them.

    Conservatism wins every time it's tried.
     
  7. raktrakr

    raktrakr Cyber-Hunter

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    Ok, allow me to "crawfish" on my statement, the epa is a friggin joke, yes regulations are important for our future, no doubt. but all of you know that the epa is over steping its authority with bs regs to further the liberal agenda. Any one of you with a lick of common sence wouldnt try to push the regs that are being shoved down our throats. Most of you know that a lot of these regs are set up to shut down operations for the good of the liberal cause, nothing more. Common sence regulations arent the problem, its the rampant stupidity that fill the ranks within the agency thats puting a stranglehold on progress. In a nutshell, im not saying put a halt on all regs, just take a common sence approach to doing whats right for all, not just for personal reasons
     
  8. westkybanded

    westkybanded 12 pointer

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    You're talking about what you and your wife do. I don't care if you dump your used frier oil in the back yard ditch and refuse to wear your seatbelt. What is at issue is what the industrial sector will do with no regulation. You will absolutely, with no doubt, see the environment that we all profess to love and enjoy so much go back to the horrid pollution that we saw 30-40 years ago. It's common sense. You're being reactionary in your statements because "government" is attached to it. How would you feel if Carl Rove was running the EPA tomorrow?

    WWTRS? (What would Teddy Roosevelt Say)
     
  9. grouser68

    grouser68 Banned

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    I lost a ton of respect for the EPA when I reported a flagrant violation and the violators ended up making a mint on the whole ordeal.It's too simple, make common sense regs to keep clean air and water and don't leave any loopholes.
     
  10. EKUgrad

    EKUgrad 10 pointer

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    Why in the bloody blue you would "respect" an agency that operates predominantly by fiat and employs mafia-like tactics is beyond me. What you witnessed is the common place shakedown -- "Mr. X, you have been found to have polluted _____. Your fine is $10,000 and the price of the cleanup -- which we will direct and contract out... and send you a bill for later." Translation -- "This problem will go away when you write out a check to us and our buddies for _______.__" That has been my experience with the agency as well -- an old (old -- from the 30's) oil pipe was on our place in Hancock county. We did not even know it was there -- the well was on a neighboring property and it traversed our land to get to the road. Well, apparently it finally rusted through and caused a little spill. They tried to rake us for some obscene amount, lawyers got involved, and then they decided to use some "fund" they had for the cleanup -- which was not even on our property for the most part. They suck.

    Did I mention that my truck gets a little over 1/2 the fuel economy that it should thanks to them *******?
     
  11. 300winmag

    300winmag 12 pointer

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    I don't use frier oil, and for you to say that I would "absolutely, with no doubt" see the environment revert back to what it was 30 or 40 years ago is presumptive and frankly insulting. I stated earlier that no one is against clean air and water, this whole thread is about the over regulation of the EPA. I will not presume that you "absolutely, with no doubt" agree that the ridiculous amount of regulations enacted by the EPA are good.

    If Carl Rove was in charge of the EPA with the same regulations I would be just as opposed to it, that's a silly statement. I've never argued this topic in a political manner only a philisophical one and mine happens to be Conservative.
     
  12. smashdn

    smashdn 12 pointer

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    How is what he said insulting?

    You guys ever seen a plating operation? How about printing waste? An improperly functioning scrubber on a plant roof? Ever done the math on what is going out the door or hole in the roof of a plant? I am telling you that that stuff is bad juju and you do not want plants deciding how clean they are going to be once the enforcement is gone.

    Scrubber is busted. You have the choice to hire an environmental contractor and pay him ~50k to make it work correctly or not. Brand X of whatever you are making is doing it for a few bucks less. You want to drop that 50K on the "right" thing or pocket it?

    Same way with the Safety stuff sense you brought it up. If nobody is going to enforce safety regs you think most plants are going to voluntarily going to give you $100 bucks a year for steel toes or supply you cut resistant gloves? IF they are no longer responsible for your safety at work what do they care if you get hurt?

    Industry needs oversight. For regulations to work they must have some teeth. To have teeth that have to have consequences to not following them.

    If your teenager has a curfew of ten o'clock but he knows you don't get home from your second shift job until closer to twelve you think he is gonna be in the house at 9:58 or is he gonna push it?

    All of that is in response to the few on here tha think you can just wipe the EPA away. I agree that that agency needs oversight and like all government agaencies needs some leaning up and downsizing. If you want to continue to experience realatively clean air, water, and soil you will recognize that the services that the EPA provides to EVERYONE are vital. If not, do yourself a favor and google "China Pollution" as that will be a snapshot of the future.
     
  13. 300winmag

    300winmag 12 pointer

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    It's insulting because he said absolutely with no doubt knows I would like to see the environment like it was 30-40 years ago. How can anyone absolutely know what I want except for me? I work at a huge printing plant and I've seen everything you spoke of I've also seen people get fired for using a forklift without having passed a safety course, I've also seen a whole department shut down for an hour and a half to watch the same stupid Lock out tag out powerpoint every year, and let's not forget the fire extinguisher power point or the compressed air one. I could go on and on, all of those useless hours spent watching that crap that most people don't even use is lost production. All of this just to justify the salary of the EHS coordinator. All of these rules because somewhere along the line some darwin award winner did something without turning the power off, or thought it would be funny to stick an air hose in their ear. Enact all the rules you want, they will continue to hinder people with common sense and the stupid people will still get hurt.
     
  14. Regulator623

    Regulator623 12 pointer

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    EPA - Extending Poverty in America....
     
  15. smashdn

    smashdn 12 pointer

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    Palmyra, Kentucky
    That is not what he said. Slow down and read it again. You will not find the word "like" in that sentence.
     

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