Crossbow Compromise Reached???

[Multidigits]

I don't want to stir the pot too much, but there is something I don't understand. From what I read in JD's post the UCBK was in negotiations about this compromise then withdrew? Then a compromise was reached between UBK, KBA, and KDFWR without UCBK being a party to the compromise.
I suppose the questions I have are: Why wasn't the UCBK involved in the final deal? Was this a failure on the part of UCBK leadership? Or did UCBK feel that nothing could be done as long as they were at the table? Or did we just witness KY politics at it's best?
Please don't misunderstand me. I am happy to get some sort of compromise and get this behind us. But, at the same time, I feel we are not being told something.

You answered your own question. UCBK got left out because of politics, not anything that was done wrong by the leaders. They were misled as much as anyone. They had tried to work a true compromise with the UBK and the KBA during trhe week before and were basicly lied to by both. What now is being billed as a compromise is actually a submission. KYDFWR bowed out because of political pressure, not so much from SB 211 but from the other bills still pending with time running out. Again, the crossbow user was used as a pawn in the game of chess.

So, for the sake of about 21 days or so, this issue is a long way from being dead. WE (UCBK) never expected the expansion to include all of the season, but we also don't expect to be left out of the best part of the season. UBK is saying now that there will be no revision for at least 5 years. That's not true. You are very correct that only part of the story has been told. I urge you to find out the rest of it.

 

[Xtreme]

Xtreme

I think this is a good compromise and allow me to shed some light on a subject that has not been addressed sufficiently ....in my opinion.

That subject is retail archery sales and shops. Granted if the expansion would have been for the whole season there would have been a intial rush in sales on xbows but in the end retail archery as a whole would have suffered. Why? It's simple...xbows are much like guns in the respect that you buy a "package" and that's basically it until something breaks. Bowhunters are always buying and tinkering and they create a tremendous market in the way of archery accessories. If I'm not mistaken one of the biggest archery equipment distributors in the world who has his business right here in Louisville wrote a letter saying much the same along these lines. Again I got this second hand but I know that from corresponding with dealers in states with total expansion there has been a drop in archery related sales after about two years of going to full expansion.

This concern as well as the major concern involving the resource issue in my opinion dictates serious thought and study and not knee jerk reactions or decisions made in passion.

I will echo Maxcams post in saying I also regret any hard feelings caused from this but anything as serious as this issue will inevitably create stong opinons as well as concerns. I do hope we all get by this and move onto better things ahead.

Rick Hahn.

 

[Duster]

I think 50 grand was wasted if the KDFWR didn't intend to go by the survey results then why take one in the first place. One post refered to the new crossbow survey being taken that being calls on SB 211. Went as far as making the statement the politians know where the vote comes from. Just remember those who participated in the survey vote also. I expect this issue to be brought back in the next couple years after the resource question is put to rest.

Am I happy with the results of the compromise NO. Do I feel those who responded to the survey got a even break again NO. To much of this was done behind the scene and to many unanswered questions that need answers. Will we find out the truth thats doubtfull.

Best the Pro side can do at this time is take what they got and make the best of it.

That 50 grand would have sent a lot of kids to conservation camp this summer.

 

[Multidigits]

I think this is a good compromise and allow me to shed some light on a subject that has not been addressed sufficiently ....in my opinion.

That subject is retail archery sales and shops. Granted if the expansion would have been for the whole season there would have been a intial rush in sales on xbows but in the end retail archery as a whole would have suffered. Why? It's simple...xbows are much like guns in the respect that you buy a "package" and that's basically it until something breaks. Bowhunters are always buying and tinkering and they create a tremendous market in the way of archery accessories. If I'm not mistaken one of the biggest archery equipment distributors in the world who has his business right here in Louisville wrote a letter saying much the same along these lines. Again I got this second hand but I know that from corresponding with dealers in states with total expansion there has been a drop in archery related sales after about two years of going to full expansion.

This concern as well as the major concern involving the resource issue in my opinion dictates serious thought and study and not knee jerk reactions or decisions made in passion.

I will echo Maxcams post in saying I also regret any hard feelings caused from this but anything as serious as this issue will inevitably create stong opinons as well as concerns. I do hope we all get by this and move onto better things ahead.

Rick Hahn.

If your Talking about Fred, then your wrong. He was for the expansion but did not support a full expansion. I doubt that he wrote a letter or he would have told me so. I'll check on the letter part. Archery dealers, for the most part were looking forward to the chance to stimulate their sales by this new venture. Evidence was the Dealer seminar put on last June by Pape's. Dealers reserved space and it was a full house until F & W withdrew the reg, thne only Uncle Lee's, and one or two other Ky. dealers made the event. There was a lot of Tn. dealers there.

As for service and assessories, crossbows are no different than other bows. Strings wear out, bolts break and get lost. Kits and optics and other add on sell as well as gizmos for vertical bows. I guess you could look at the market created in Ohio and get some sats, but it there, and the distributors know it.

 

[Multidigits]

I think 50 grand was wasted if the KDFWR didn't intend to go by the survey results then why take one in the first place. I expect this issue to be brought back in the next couple years after the resourse question is put to rest.

Am I happy with the results of the compromise NO. Do I feel those who responded to the survey got a even break again NO. To much of this was done behind the scene and to many unanswered questions that need answers.

That 50 grand would have sent a lot of kids to conservation camp this summer.

From what I'm told, F & W will continue to stand behind the survey results. Allegations of misdeeds are just that--all unfounded at this point. The survey will continue to be used in the future in spite of what been said he lately.

 

[Xtreme]

Xtreme

I meant Fred and I also meant he did not support a full expansion. I have spoken with a few dealers in states that went full expansion and most of the replies were that after a year or two of increased sales driven by xbows the verticle archery accesories dropped and sales in general saw no great benefit by full expansion.

In all fairness I did speak with a few who thought it was a boon to sales but most did not think it was the great gold mine that was talked up to be. I think when we get the results in from dealers in Alabama and Tenn. in a year or so this may tell a common tale with what could have happened here.....good , bad or ugly.

 

[Multidigits]

I meant Fred and I also meant he did not support a full expansion. I have spoken with a few dealers in states that went full expansion and most of the replies were that after a year or two of increased sales driven by xbows the verticle archery accesories dropped and sales in general saw no great benefit by full expansion.

In all fairness I did speak with a few who thought it was a boon to sales but most did not think it was the great gold mine that was talked up to be. I think when we get the results in from dealers in Alabama and Tenn. in a year or so this may tell a common tale with what could have happened here.....good , bad or ugly.

Been down to Freddy's place several times in the last two months. He didn't have a problem with the FULL expansion, but said he thought a smaller one might have been more better. Sounded more like he didn't give a crap either way. I's sure he didn't write any letters, especially any against expanding his business. I know for a fact that they have a hard time keeping Gold Tip bolts in stock. And several crossbow models are in short supply most of the time, but not all those sales are in Kentucky. I guess if your in the archery business, you probably wouldn't kick someone wanting to spend $500-$1200 on a outfit out the door too often.

 

[JDMiller]

I don't want to stir the pot too much, but there is something I don't understand. From what I read in JD's post the UCBK was in negotiations about this compromise then withdrew? Then a compromise was reached between UBK, KBA, and KDFWR without UCBK being a party to the compromise.
I suppose the questions I have are: Why wasn't the UCBK involved in the final deal? Was this a failure on the part of UCBK leadership? Or did UCBK feel that nothing could be done as long as they were at the table? Or did we just witness KY politics at it's best?
Please don't misunderstand me. I am happy to get some sort of compromise and get this behind us. But, at the same time, I feel we are not being told something.

gwhilikerz..........I've been gone most of the weekend and then our internet carrier was down last night so I'm a little late commenting on your questions. I believed Multi gave you the answer inwhich you answered yourself.....it was "Kentucky politics at its best".

The UCBK's offer to compromise was a full week before this agreement was reached. Our contact with represenatives from the UBK & KBA was basically a few phone calls and e-mails looping all parties involved. The question of.... Our we in agreement to approach the KDF&WR to see if they were agreeable to pursue discussions?....was never answered or agreed to. Since we could not agree to this question......which would have to be agreed upon to go any further....the UCBK...pulled from compromise talks basically 7 days after it was asked. At this point....it was important to make the offer to talk when we assumed the outcome was unknown by all....at that time. However.....it was understandable that legislation was pending and could have went either way if it was left to follow the course. The very next day ....unknown to the UCBK this agreement was reached between the KDF&WR and those groups.

So.......I cant agree that the UCBK's leadership failed in this area. If we were invited.....we would have provided some input....it might not have made any difference. It is my understanding that it was this compromise or the season remained the same. I'm positive that Gassett got as much out of this as he could... that was agreeable by the opposing groups. The circumstances surrounding this does leave a lot of questions but it does not change the outcome if we knew all the answers.

I guess I'm the kind of person who likes to make the best out of any situation and I think that the UCBK and everyone that supported the expansion should feel like we did accomplish something here. Without the support.....this could have been a different situation totally. What we need to do now is get more people involved with crossbow hunting. Let the data be collected and see what the real impact will be and stave off those concerns that based a lot of opposition. If we can establish a larger base of users and more support......we can work on gaining some middle ground in enough time. Again this is a decent start.......the sportsmen of Kentucky just need to make it grow.

 

[gwhilikerz]

Thanks JD, you cleared up the water a lot for me. I don't know what position the UCBK as a whole will take on future hunting opportunities. I will support whatever decisions are made. My personal outlook on this "compromise" is: "OK, we've established a foothold or beachhead, now we can start the advance." I'll probably have many more questions as things unfold.