Coonhound shot...lawsuit filed

Discussion in 'Small Game Hunting' started by grouseguy, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. grouseguy

    grouseguy 12 pointer

    I post this reluctantly as this subject seems to bring out the very worst in some "sportsmen", but I found it interesting. Personally, I hope the owner wins his suit and collects a suitable (large) settlement.

    http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/11945119.htm
     
  2. GSP

    GSP 14 Pointer Staff Member

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    Montrose

    Read it today. I have decided to lay off this topic and several others for that matter. I agree with you GG.
     
  3. Ladybug

    Ladybug Fawn

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    Jun 18, 2005
    Southeast TN
    Lawsuit

    It is a shame for both guys. From what he said I don't think he meant to shot the dog. I do think he should pay for emotional distress. Lossing a good dog is a bad thing. But you have to think of the other guy too. He was protecting his horses and it was at night.
     
  4. WBBP

    WBBP 12 pointer

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    I read it today while in Lexington in the Liberal Leader.

    There are always 2 sides to every story, but from what I read, it would seem that the owner of the horses over-reacted. On that same note, the owner of the dogs has an obligation to control his dogs-and he wasn't.

    Years ago when I coon hunted in Logan, Warren, and Butler County, no one really cared if we hunted on their land and we just followed the dogs regardless of who's property they were on. Sometimes the hunts covered miles and lasted until daylight. This was pretty much acceptabe then, but as big tracts of land were sold off for development and farms divided, and our culture became more urban, it is now not acceptable to hunt like that and not control your dogs-but it still happens around here. This sport has a rough future ahead since basically there just isn't enough ground for people to run their dogs on.

    I hate this because it is a fun sport, but what do you do when it comes to protecting private property rights agianst the rights of someone else to use your property for their pleasure in pursuit of a sport near and dear to their hearts.

    I met with a coon hunter last year and asked him to not run his dogs on property I had leased. He said he couldn't control his dogs and for me to basically f-off and he would continue to hunt there. I think this guy won mediator of the year award in 2004.
     
  5. jarhedhntr

    jarhedhntr 10 pointer

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    Richmond
    First of all if he needed a night scope to shoot the "coyote" he is still in the wrong, as far as I know, it is illegal to shoot anything other than coons at night. As for following your dogs and hunting no matter whose property they go on, I think is irresponsible. It is legal to go on someone elses property to collect your hunting dogs but it is illegal to hunt that property. I know this first hand because we caught some coon hunters on our land the night before gun season last year and had them cited by fish and wildlife for trespassing and hunting without permission. It cost these boys $450 each. I think there is a mentality out there that because it is at night and no one sees that it is ok. These 2 just picked a likely spot and let there dogs out. They said that is how they usually found hunting spots, drive along and find a place and then hunt it. They had no idea who owned it, and really didn't care. Come to find out, they had 400 acres to hunt. In fact they offered to let me hunt it since I was pissed that they had treed a coon in the same tree as my dear stand.
     
  6. greytail

    greytail 8 pointer

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    Knot Co. Ky.
    I agree we need to have control of our dogs while hunting. That’s why I like hunting my Mountain Feist dogs. They don’t hunt deep and are easy controled. Although smart as they are they can’t read and from time to time they cross on to posted land. But the way I see it I always have colars with my name, address and phone number on it. I don’t know if the Walker hound had one on him or not but I would wager in the dark that he did" if I were a gambler".So if my dogs harm anything while trespassing all someone has to do is catch my dog and I would be in court. It’s the twenty first centery and we can’t just go around shooting everything we see. As for the land GOD owns it and he just lets us control it for a while.
     
  7. jarhedhntr

    jarhedhntr 10 pointer

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    Well put Greytail. It comes down to being responsible. I think the guy with the scope should pay big though. Shooting at night, with night vision scope seems like clear intent and shouldn't be hard to prove being it is illegal to hunt at night (except coons).
     
  8. samjoe

    samjoe 6 pointer

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    fisherville ky
    let me start by saying i am a lifelong hunter and rabbit hound owner.i dont see the scope as a issue.sure its illiegal to hunt with nightvision but he wasnt hunting he was shooting a dog running his 300 thousand dollar horse.night vision scopes arent illiegal.also what difference does it make if he knew it was a coyote or a dog.theres all kinds of half wild dogs running the countryside,he had no way to tell it was worth 15gr.this is the usa ,arent we allowed to protect our property?what should he have done called the cops?yeah right.im sure they would have rushed right out.i feel for the dog owner but in the end its his fault his dog was runnin expensive horses,stuff happens.finally god did put this land here but he didnt pay that property owners taxes or wouldnt have paid his vet bills either.
     
  9. greytail

    greytail 8 pointer

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    Knot Co. Ky.
    I wasn’t saying the guy didn’t have control over his land and legally own it. I’m not satisfied that the Walker was running his horse. I feel he was just in where the horse was and the man shot the dog. What did the police report say? Shot from 50 yds or about. He also says he had to know with the night vision scope he wasn’t shooting a coyote. I also feel that the dog after being in many comp. Hunts as he must have been in being a champion and all, if the horseman had wanted to he could have easily caught the dog and identified the owner by its collar. I still say we can’t go around shooting everything we see. Especially at night and again especially if we can’t identify our target. It could have been someone or worse, a child eh was beading down on.
     
  10. Art

    Art 12 pointer

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    Lexington, KY
    I want to tread lightly here as well, but I'm going to side with the horse owner. If the dog was NOT on his property, then things would be different. For some of you guys that are not familiar with the horse industry, Woodford county has many horse farms with some animals that are worth several Million dollars each. They guard these horses like they are the damn President. I speak from experience, because I had to go to a farm one evening and didn't know where to go exactly. To make a long story short, I ended up by a horse named "Point Given" and the guards were NOT happy about that and had I not had a reason to be there, I would have been arrested no doubt.

    I can only imagine what I would do if I had a $300,000 or $2,000,000 horse out in a field at night. I THINK I would be on edge just a tiny bit.;) When you put things into perspective, and you have people trying to justify shooting cats and dogs for craping in their yard or killing a bird, then this should not come as a surprise to anyone. The only reason I think it stirs things up is because a hunter was harmed by a non-hunter, bottom line it was just a bad situation for all involved..

    Of all the poor places to go romping around, tresspassing, at night, Woodford county is the worst. There's not too many places in the state that hire guards (sometimes armed) to watch over their land at night. I honestly feel bad for the loss of the dog, but hunting at night next to or on a big horse farm??? HERE'S YOUR SIGN.:D
     
  11. jarhedhntr

    jarhedhntr 10 pointer

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    I have trouble believing that the dog was running the horse, not to say that the horse wasn't freaking out. But if the farmer had killed that many coyotes in the past then why was his 300,000 dollar horse running in the open for coyotes to harass. Its not that I don't think he had the right to protect his horse, but the first line of defense should have been putting the animal in the stall for the night. As for night vision, I think we should be able to take coyotes at night, but we can't, and until then he was still breaking the law as much as a cattle farmer would be if he were protecting a 1000 dollar cow. In the end it is a crappy situation, but if he made the mistake honestly then he should compensate the hunter.
     
  12. john4

    john4 8 pointer

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    Hickman County, Ky
    There is a level of personal responsibility that we all must accept while hunting. If someone is hunting on my land without my consent then they are wrong, period. The situation only magnifies if it's at night and the protection of my livestock, personal property, or high dollar horses are involved.
     
  13. PhilpotHunter

    PhilpotHunter 12 pointer

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    Nov 8, 2004
    Reynolds Station
    I am a strong advocate of "My land, my call" but in defense of the hunter here, how do you teach your hounds to read the no trespasing signs? Correct me if I'm wrong, God knows someone will on this site:D , but in KY there is an open leash law. Which means hunting dogs can tree a coon on your property wether you gave permission or not, the hunter just can't shoot the coon. The minute he shoots at the coon he is hunting without permission.

    If this guy had night vision scope on his rifle he knew he wasn't shooting a coyote. I've used night vision, and even though it isn't as good as your every day vision, its pretty crisp. Know if I was in this situation what would I have done? If I thought it was a threat to my horse I'd of shot it too. But the fact is this guy broke the law. By having the scope and admitting to killing that many yotes with it he obviously hunts them at night, strike one. And by shooting the dog in a state with an open leash law, strike two. Sucks for this guy, but legally he is in the wrong and will have to pay for it.

    Makes you stop and think though, how fast are you going to shoot first and ask questions later after this case!?!?
     
  14. jarhedhntr

    jarhedhntr 10 pointer

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    That is my point exactly little bro, he automatically assumed it was a yote and shot it. His intent was to hunt at night and that is illegal, that justifies the reinburse the hunter. You and I are very familiar with the open leash law. Now if the dog was in the corral running the horse, dead dog whether day or night.
     
  15. Art

    Art 12 pointer

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    Lexington, KY
    He may have broken the law, but you guys have to understand that were not talking a normal situation. The fact that this guys has an AR-15 with a night scope should tell you that he means business about protecting these high dollar horses at night. That's how these big horse farms operate. He probably didn't give a damn if it was a black lab or coyote, it was a threat and it was on his property. I would THINK that under these circumstances that the law about shooting at night does not apply. I think he has a valid arguement in saying that he was NOT hunting, but protecting.. I still think the hunter was a damn fool for hunting in that area and even putting himself and his dog in that position. As a hunter, if you know anything about horse farms and Woodford county, then you should not be surprised that something like this could happen.
    I would hope the horse owner gets off, and the hunter learns a lesson on where not to hunt.
     

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