Controversial Video of Michigan Coyote Killing

Discussion in 'Varmint Hunting' started by JasonGoneFishing, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. wademup

    wademup 12 pointer

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    You said you wanted to put the animal down as quickly as possible so that rules out a bow. You have made almost everything many hunters do to be " not fair Chase" or somehow unethical so I figured you'd only shoot a deer with a gun to drop it instantly, trapping is obviously cruel to you right?
     
  2. therookie

    therookie 8 pointer

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    Shall I rephrase and say "an animal should be killed with as ethical as shot possible with the weapons you are hunting with" to make your panties unbunch? Once again, a good shot with archery equipment can kill a deer within seconds. Explain how me giving my personal opinion on choosing to not hunt over corn or salt is making anything unethical. For me personally, hunting over bait takes away from the challenge, so I choose not to do it. I dont believe I ever said doing that was unethical. Since you asked, trapping is cruel to me, which is why I dont take part. You also dont see me in the trapping threads criticizing people for doing it though. Because as long as people follow the laws I have no problem with them trapping or hunting over bait. It is just a personal preference. No different than what type of bow I hunt with or what brand of camo I wear. Not sure why you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill...

    In my original post, I stated the goal should be to put the animal down as quickly as possible. In that situation, using his weapon to do so would have been best. Not standing there watching while his dogs did the job he couldnt get done.
     
  3. wademup

    wademup 12 pointer

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    benton, ky, USA.
    Just trying to figure out why any of the things you mentioned were relevant to this thread, I'll ask the same of you. What does baiting or trapping have to do with this video? If nothing why mention them at all. I just find it funny to hear you say you are "so fair chase" , never heard that term before and it sounds like you are demeaning those who are doing the things you mentioned. Read you post and tell me it doesn't sound that way
     
  4. therookie

    therookie 8 pointer

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    My post doesnt sound that way.

    The way I understand it, the guy was hunting with his dogs. Me saying what I said further expresses my disgust with a guy like this. I was explaining that my personal preference is to not use things like bait or traps and I lumped in dogs with that category, so for someone in my corner this is about as low as it can get. Not implying I am better than anyone, just implying that this guy is an ultimate piece of trash in my book. Maybe some people who trap and hunt with dogs have a differing opinion, but for me, who is so fair chase that I dont hunt with bait, traps, or dogs, I feel this guy should never be able to hunt again. Once again, I am not implying that I am better than anyone and as long as people obey the law I have no problem with them or their methods. It is my morals and human decency that give me problems with this guy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  5. wademup

    wademup 12 pointer

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    benton, ky, USA.
    Lets be clear then, are those who hunt over bait or with dogs not hunting " fair chase"? Because you keep saying you are " so fair Chase" I mean do you use trail cams or treestands, scent blockers etc or do you strictly bowhunt from the ground ? I'm troubled by what appears to be your definitions of fair Chase
     
  6. sacmarata

    sacmarata 10 pointer

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    Sounds to me like the guy just likes to even the playing field as much as possible for game and hasn't judged anyone who uses their own choice of legal methods.

    I guess it begs the question, do feeders provide ANY advantage? Is it an unfair advantage? IMHO fair chase is determined by law and those who follow the law are following fair chase. So, in KY using feeders is fair chase. We all have our own personal take beyond the law and I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't conflict with the law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  7. KY Swamp Beagler

    KY Swamp Beagler 12 pointer

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    I don't like to see animals suffer. However, I expect the gruesomeness of that video parralels exactly what it looks like if a coyote jumped on a man's wife or daughter's little foo-foo dog. I imagine the residents of Wisconsin might've seen something similar with wolves.

    It's hard for an anti-hunter or fence rider to watch that vid and it not leave a bad taste in their mouth.
     
  8. High Rack

    High Rack 12 pointer

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    The Vid may upset some people. Considering it was a yote, I have no problem with it, as they would have done the same if one of those dogs was in the wrong place. State law seems to allow this according to the reporting. I'm am not saying he did the right thing by posting the Vid, but a dead yote is a good one regardless of how it met the dirt.
     
  9. coysmoker

    coysmoker 6 pointer

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    What he said ^^^^^^^^^
     
  10. ddwhitetails

    ddwhitetails 10 pointer

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    yeah the best yote is a dead yote....but you have to have some respect for an animals life and not let it suffer more than it has to. Then to have it on video and put it on FB or You tube.....thats just asking for trouble!! Not the kind of advertising we want.....It only puts a black eye on the sport of Hunting!!
     
  11. therookie

    therookie 8 pointer

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    In my opinion feeders give an advantage, but it's a legal one so that's why I have no problem with people using them. They allow you to alter the pattern of deer. There is nothing wrong with someone hunting over a feeder, using dogs, etc etc, it is just my personal preference not to. Not too sure why people make it a bigger deal than it is. As long as you follow the law, you'll hear no criticism from me. This convo is no different than Chevy vs Ford. Everyone has their own opinion, experiences, and preference. If someone doesn't like my opinion that's fine, but don't think you'll be able to talk me out of it or try to prove me wrong. I choose not to use things that will alter an animal's pattern, whether by fear or desire, while hunting. I do use trail cameras, camo, stands, scent blocker, etc, but those things help me blend in and get closer to the animal. They don't alter the animal's actions. Someone arguing I don't practice fair chase because I use scent blocker is like arguing Gatorade shouldn't be allowed in sorts because it's performance enhancing. That sounds like someone who was offended by something small and can't let little comments go.

    The original point though, is that regardless what type of animal this guy was hunting, he handled the situation very poorly. There is nothing like the feeling of taking an animal in an unaltered state of mind, but when you use dogs to kill your prey you fail to complete an ethical kill, which makes you an irresponsible hunter in my opinion.
     
  12. therookie

    therookie 8 pointer

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    I don't use anything that alters an animal's state of mind, whether by desire or fear, that will give me an advantage. This includes feed, dogs, urine, or other attractants. I use camo, cameras, scent blocker, and stands, but those products help me blend in and become a part of the animal's surroundings. I don't alter their pattern, path, or mindset. I apologize if you don't view the term fair chase with the same meaning. Feel free to call it what you want. Again, I have no problem with people who do these things that I don't as long as they do it legally.
     
  13. kymailman98

    kymailman98 10 pointer

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    I didn't have a problem with them killing the coyote either. I just don't like seeing idiots with access to a camera filming everything they do, especially hunting videos. The guys who are always videoing that kind of crap, probably have little weenies, and that's the only way they can get their jollies. All they are doing is giving ammo to the anti hunting groups.
     
  14. KY Swamp Beagler

    KY Swamp Beagler 12 pointer

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    I think Wademup's point is that you are most definitely splitting hairs with your definition of fair chase or being ethical, which is fine just realize that your argument doesn't hold water. Using cameras is advantageous. If they weren't average Joes wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars for single units. I've never once seen a trail camera not being marketed as an advantage to hunters the same goes for Scent Blocker's "forget the wind" type advertisements.

    Do white oak acorns alter a deer's "state of mind" because they sure go ape shat over them at my farm? Oh yeah, what about that tantalizing smell of a doe in estrous? Does that alter a buck's state of mind? Should I keep going?

    Last question: Have you ever hunted an animal legally with dogs? What actual experience or knowledge of the activity gives you the expertise to determine what is ethical/responsible when it comes to using dogs?

    I may be off base but I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to hunting with dogs.
     
  15. therookie

    therookie 8 pointer

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    Absolutely cameras are advantageous. I never said they weren't. But they don't alter an animals state of mind or trick them to lure them into a position for me to kill.

    Yes acorns do that, but I don't go carrying acorns around in my pocket or pile them up in a spot to sit over. What you're talking about is all natural stuff and events in the life of a deer. They create a pattern of finding the acorns, they follow a hot doe, etc etc, because that is their natural life. When I hunt, I like to present myself with the most difficult challenge and put myself in a position where the animals simply don't know that I'm there. As someone who understands said above, just leveling the playing field.

    Please show me where I said hunting with dogs, whether rabbit, coyote, mountain lion, raccoon, or anything else is unethical. I have said that standing there over a wounded animal holding a gun but allowing the dogs to finish the job is, but using them as a tool to hunt with is not. It is just personal preference for me to not hunt that way. But I also don't rabbit or coon hunt. Not because of that reason, just because it is something I would not gain anything from considering I wouldn't eat the meat and neither species is doing anything that damages my property.

    I might be splitting hairs, and if my argument can't hold water then let my pitiful, ignorant self be. But, you and a few others are splitting hairs as well. People are reading my comments and seeing me saying that using bait, dogs, etc as an advantage is unethical. I do not feel this way and have never said it. The only thing I've said is unethical is a guy who wounds an animal and stands over it with a weapon that could kill it quickly but chooses to let his dogs do the job. As I've said multiple times, I have no problem with the way you choose to hunt as long as its legal. But what this guy did is just plain wrong. I'm sure some people disagree, and that's fine. That's the beauty of posting in a message board on the internet. Me choosing not to do certain things is me following my opinion. The same with you. I don't criticize those who do things that I don't as long as its legal.

    One more time, and for the record. I have no problem with people who hunt over bait, use dogs, or anything else that's been mentioned. As long as you hunt legally and kill the animal as quickly as possible given your weapon I will never criticize you. I simply choose to hunt differently to give myself more of a disadvantage. I hunt for the sport and for the challenge. Because I like to overcome a challenge, I like to present myself with the greatest realistic challenge there is when hunting deer. Yes, I wear camo and scent blocker, and yes I hunt from a stand some, but I also stalk. I use cameras as well. But that's where it ends. I just have a personal preference of keeping my advantages to a minimum.

    My original intent was not to hijack this thread. It was to further indicate that I think this guy is a piece of crap for what he did. That's it. Continue to use your preferred methods to hunt, I just hope we all treat these animals with respect and end their lives as quickly as our weapon allows so it doesn't suffer.
     

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