C.O. Ability to question you while hunting

therookie

8 pointer
Aug 24, 2012
611
So are you saying LE do not have certain criteria they must follow in enter your property? I'm pretty certain that's not the case. I'm pretty certain LE must follow certain criteria to be upon any private property.

IN one of the first post you made this statement..."Also believe you will find within Ky laws and statutes concerning CO's ..they actually have more authority concerning coming on to your property and searches related to fish & wildlife issues than other law enforcement".:....Now in this post you say they...."they really have less authority than other LE from that perspective."

The only question I've had in this thread is the power the COs has to go on someones private property. IF I come home and a LE officer is in my back yard looking around I believe I can ask him to leave unless they are there under a warrant or see a crime going down. Am I wrong on this? Do they have the right to be there just to snoop around? Thats all lI want to know about the COs. Do they have the right to snoop around without any warrant or suspicion of a crime taking place?

Your analogy can go with the officer wanting to search your car if he pulls you over. He cannot if he doesnt have reason, but if he asks and you say no that can be considered a good reason to make you sit there until a warrant comes through. If you arent doing anything wrong, why not destroy any and all suspicion? I am not saying we should all welcome with open arms any LE to search our belongings, but getting upset with a CO coming to check your license on private property is like being upset your bags get x-rayed before getting on a plane. They have no proof or reason to check my belongings, but they do to weed out those who are hurting the department and everyone else who stays legal.
 

srkrit0980

Fawn
Oct 24, 2014
9
Just asking a question but what is the difference of a lawman questioning or searching a Muslim dressed man at an airport terminal based off suspicion and a CO seeing a truck with a realtree sticker on the back of the glass parked outside of a gate by the road and walking in to check him?

Seems questioning or searching the Muslim man is illegal and profiling but going in to question and check the hunter isn't.

That to me is where it gets a little gray to me on this subject
 

WildmanWilson

12 pointer
Dec 26, 2004
11,895
Western Ky.
WW.... no offense or disrespect intended but it seems your trying to twist this in a way to match your personal opinion.

The statue ... KRS 150 is posted concerning this . I didn't make it up and to that effect really didn't know how it read. Which is the difference from the first post to the last I made. I was under the impression like most they had authority that other LE didn't ... but after seeing the statute I was wrong. All LE have the same authority to enter private lands under KRS 150. However my opinion has never changed that the ability for a CO to enter private lands is necessary for them to do the job we ask them to do.

Other than that .... It's all in how you want to interpret KRS 150. You keep saying LE do not have the right to enter private land without certain criteria... snoop around as you call it. If they enter that property under the pretense of KRS 150 ... than I take that as yes they can.

You and others may not like or agree with that ... but that's pretty much what it's saying. No warrant or anything else needed if it's within what's prescribed in KRS 150 as being the reason they enter the property. Again searching structures or vehicles is a different matter.




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I'm not trying to twist anything. I've read the code posted. I still do not see anything that says they can come on your private property without due cause. Thats why I said they must follow certain criteria. They can not just hop out at a house that looks like it may harbor a crack head. They must have consent, be an emergency, or be a crime in plain view so that the LE can go onto a private property without a warrant. Are you telling me you interpret the code to say you can "snoop" at will with out following the criteria I listed? So if the LE must have consent, be an emergency, or be a crime in plain view then I would expect the COs to follow the same protocol. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

WildmanWilson

12 pointer
Dec 26, 2004
11,895
Western Ky.
Your analogy can go with the officer wanting to search your car if he pulls you over. He cannot if he doesnt have reason, but if he asks and you say no that can be considered a good reason to make you sit there until a warrant comes through. If you arent doing anything wrong, why not destroy any and all suspicion? I am not saying we should all welcome with open arms any LE to search our belongings, but getting upset with a CO coming to check your license on private property is like being upset your bags get x-rayed before getting on a plane. They have no proof or reason to check my belongings, but they do to weed out those who are hurting the department and everyone else who stays legal.

I don't get upset with my bag being x-rayed but I take exception to full body scans that they were performing. Checking the bag doesn't encroach on my person space. There is or should be a limit to how far any authority figure can go to see if I'm breaking a law. I'm sure there would be outrage if all people going through airports had to be strip searched with full body cavity searches. I bet it would weed out 100% of the contraband or threats going on a plane. Is that what we want? I bet some would say that's fine because we would all be safe.

If a cop pulls be over then there was a reason for it or should have been. I have no reason for a cop to want to search my car so why would they ask? If they wanted to then I would make them get a warrant. They would find nothing but I see no reason to just give them a reason to snoop.
 

crestliner200

6 pointer
Sep 5, 2008
427
A Hunter Hunter.
This is what it seems to me. Everyone wants law enforcement to do a better job BUT ( and thats a big BUT) they want them to do it with less. Less time, less powers and less of everything else it takes to do the job. I know here in the county I live in the people want law enforcement up unto the point law enforcement comes knocking on their door.

wildmanwilson go back to the question I ask about exactly how do you want a CO to do his job. When exactly is it alright to check a license or dead deer? Or this question when have you had an officer come onto your property just checking licenses and I'm not talking about seeing you coming out of your lease or property but actually walking in the woods on your property\lease just to find YOU and check your license?
 

WildmanWilson

12 pointer
Dec 26, 2004
11,895
Western Ky.
This is what it seems to me. Everyone wants law enforcement to do a better job BUT ( and thats a big BUT) they want them to do it with less. Less time, less powers and less of everything else it takes to do the job. I know here in the county I live in the people want law enforcement up unto the point law enforcement comes knocking on their door.

wildmanwilson go back to the question I ask about exactly how do you want a CO to do his job. When exactly is it alright to check a license or dead deer? Or this question when have you had an officer come onto your property just checking licenses and I'm not talking about seeing you coming out of your lease or property but actually walking in the woods on your property\lease just to find YOU and check your license?

I have never had anyone come on my land I'm hunting other than dove hunting and once as a kid while coon hunting. I'm just questioning the legality of a CO going on private property and under what circumstances. The topic was that they had more power than other LE officers and I just want to get clarification as to how that's possible. Maybe you don't just stop and start walking on private land to check for law breakers. I don't know. I was just asking questions. If you can I see a big problem with it.

I know many more criminal could be caught by COs and LE folks if they could just do as they wanted but that's not how we set up our laws. A persons freedoms should not take a back seat to law enforcement just to make their job easier. I'm sorry you have a hard job. I respect you and any CO that has to do the job. I'm thankful you are doing the job. I still believe you need a reason of suspicion to go looking on private land and maybe that's how you do it. I'm just going by the argument I've been seeing.

I still believe most of the blame goes on the general public for turning a blind eye to all the known law breakers. COs are very limited and there is almost no chance of getting caught not tagging or shooting over limits. Thats not on you but someone that looks away. I know a guy that complained about someone he knew that shot a buck and didn't tag it. I said..turn him in..and his answer was I don't do people that way. ANd there lies the real problem.
 

ptbrauch

12 pointer
Nov 10, 2004
11,024
The OC
Your analogy can go with the officer wanting to search your car if he pulls you over. He cannot if he doesnt have reason, but if he asks and you say no that can be considered a good reason to make you sit there until a warrant comes through.

That's not true. Your exercising of your 4th amendment rights does not constitute cause for a warrant. If an officer is successful in getting a warrant in such a case, its because he lied to the judge. Also, if you're not arrested, he can't keep you there. Always ask if you're free to go. If he tries to tell you that you must remain then tell him that you'd like to speak to a lawyer.
 

therookie

8 pointer
Aug 24, 2012
611
I don't get upset with my bag being x-rayed but I take exception to full body scans that they were performing. Checking the bag doesn't encroach on my person space. There is or should be a limit to how far any authority figure can go to see if I'm breaking a law. I'm sure there would be outrage if all people going through airports had to be strip searched with full body cavity searches. I bet it would weed out 100% of the contraband or threats going on a plane. Is that what we want? I bet some would say that's fine because we would all be safe.

If a cop pulls be over then there was a reason for it or should have been. I have no reason for a cop to want to search my car so why would they ask? If they wanted to then I would make them get a warrant. They would find nothing but I see no reason to just give them a reason to snoop.
A CO coming to your land to check your license is nothing like being strip searched for no reason.
 

therookie

8 pointer
Aug 24, 2012
611
That's not true. Your exercising of your 4th amendment rights does not constitute cause for a warrant. If an officer is successful in getting a warrant in such a case, its because he lied to the judge. Also, if you're not arrested, he can't keep you there. Always ask if you're free to go. If he tries to tell you that you must remain then tell him that you'd like to speak to a lawyer.
I'm not going to start demanding a lawyer if a cop wants to search my truck after pulling me over. That's just insane to me that people would do that.
 

sheperd

10 pointer
Nov 4, 2003
1,013
Bardstown, Ky
The super powers that are referred to are just the ability to make searches without a warrant. They can in the course of their duty search game pouches, vests and creels. This would include coolers and tackle boxes. That is what I was referring to as more power on private property.

I have really learned a lot from all this reading. I was wrong on a lot of what I thought was true. I still think that giving anybody free reign on private property is wrong. If they wanted to wait at a vehicle, house or barn to check so be it. Its not like someone would magically print a hunting license in the field. As far as them doing their job, there is no way possible for a game warden to effectively do the job that needs to be done.
Even though they may never come looking, they still can. There is a chance for abuse of that. I am very mistrusting of anybody having that power, city, county, state or game wardens.

sent from the doghouse
 

Moc'sin

Spike
Feb 27, 2010
73
Kentucky
The court decisions on "open fields" was very eye opening.


sent from the doghouse

Thank you. Interesting reading for sure.

Just because LEO's have the authority to enter onto property under the open fields doctrine, doesn't mean they use it on every check or every day. I'd guess that would be left to the Officers discretion. A question earlier brought up a good point. How many here have been checked on private property by a CO that was just snooping / wondering around to find a license check? They have the authority, but how many people here have actually seen it being applied? Not second hand info from your uncles wifes' 2nd cousins brother-in-law down the road. How many have actually been checked at their stand or blind while hunting?
 

Duster

12 pointer
Dec 14, 2001
17,801
Up in the woods above Lake Malone
The OOS guys I talked about getting busted for hunting on resident license were very visible from the road in a area only some places due to restrictions you can hunt on. I am not sure if he knew which areas hunting is allowed and which is not allowed. Glad to have him keeping a eye on this area if for nothing else than to keep trespassers out. We at one time had a outfitter working this area that would drop hunters off then pick them back up at a set time wherever he wanted telling them he had leased or has permission when he did not. Never hung a stand as far as I know just drop them off and tell them to go in this or that direction all on private property. I know this due to one ending up in my backyard sitting against a tree a hundred yards off my backyard feeder. He was not happy when I sent him packing, all he could say was I paid good money to hunt here.
 
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crestliner200

6 pointer
Sep 5, 2008
427
A Hunter Hunter.
The super powers that are referred to are just the ability to make searches without a warrant. They can in the course of their duty search game pouches, vests and creels. This would include coolers and tackle boxes. That is what I was referring to as more power on private property.

I have really learned a lot from all this reading. I was wrong on a lot of what I thought was true. I still think that giving anybody free reign on private property is wrong. If they wanted to wait at a vehicle, house or barn to check so be it. Its not like someone would magically print a hunting license in the field. As far as them doing their job, there is no way possible for a game warden to effectively do the job that needs to be done.
Even though they may never come looking, they still can. There is a chance for abuse of that. I am very mistrusting of anybody having that power, city, county, state or game wardens.

sent from the doghouse
So using your analogy theres a chance for abuse. Ok then theres also a chance that if your neighbor is poaching then so are you. WIth your analogy you lump all LEOs together into the same basket. I will give you this tho. There are LEOs out there that will abuse the powers given to them but do you throw away the whole basket because one Apple is bad. I know in my house hold, If we could afford a whole basket of apples, we would pick out the bad apple and keep the rest. I know many COs that are not abusive in the way they do their jobs and most are sportsman themselves. Most try to use common sense to do their jobs. Most want YOU the sportsman to have a memorable experience and to continue to hunt for years to come. You know if everyone abided by the laws we would not be having this conversation but alas not all are law abiding citizens.
I agree that we do not need our rights impeded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Evidently this has not become a big problem because the only time I hear anything about it is on this forum and believe me if this was happening and people were complaining we in the field would be hearing about it.
Thank you. Interesting reading for sure.

Just because LEO's have the authority to enter onto property under the open fields doctrine, doesn't mean they use it on every check or every day. I'd guess that would be left to the Officers discretion. A question earlier brought up a good point. How many here have been checked on private property by a CO that was just snooping / wondering around to find a license check? They have the authority, but how many people here have actually seen it being applied? Not second hand info from your uncles wifes' 2nd cousins brother-in-law down the road. How many have actually been checked at their stand or blind while hunting?
Good luck getting your answer because I ask this earlier but seems no one can come up with personal experiences where they were out hunting and a Conservation Officer just happened by , while out for a stroll, and checked their license and tag.
I will tell you this tho. I can about guarantee you that the officers I work with will only be in the woods if they have a complaint ,on said farm, of something illegal happening because they don't want to mess up a legal sportsman's chances of killing a deer.
 
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KYBOY

12 pointer
Apr 21, 2005
8,424
Floyd,co..Kentucky
Well honestly I have been checked by a CO just driving by..Not trying to fight or argue about it(I didn't see were you asked earlier) but we were running dogs(beagles) in a bottom when a CO drove by..He pulled off the road and walked out and check us..Happened about 8-9 years ago here in Floyd co off 850..Dont get me wrong, I did not mind at all and I was legal but he did do it..
 
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