Baiting Illegal!

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by maxcam, Aug 25, 2006.

  1. aceoky

    aceoky 12 pointer

    13,423
    37
    Jul 14, 2003
    W KY

    I agree!

    The really sad fact IS; even if you win, you lose (time off work, other expenses incurred etc.), there has to be a 'better way"???

    NOT that it wouldn't be "worth it" to clear one's "good name" but c'mon why should WE have to do that???
     
  2. kevhunter

    kevhunter Banned

    737
    0
    Sep 16, 2004
    I say that there will be very few citations written because of this change. I know very few game wardens that will be out roaming the hills to find corn piles.Maybe, if they have a complaint, but wont make much difference otherwise.The people who want to feed corn for turkeys or gamecams will probably keep right on doing it.Ive hunted for well over 25 years taken countless deer and turkey and have never even seen a fish and wildlife officer in the woods much less in the woods looking for corn piles.
     
  3. KYBOY

    KYBOY 12 pointer

    8,002
    1,354
    Apr 21, 2005
    Floyd,co..Kentucky
    Your exactly right, thier has to be a better way....
     
  4. slickhead slayer

    slickhead slayer 12 pointer

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    Nov 14, 2005
    VP OF ADMIN Development
    I think its a front. Not only is there no evidence to back it up, but the actual HOTTEST months are not even included in the ban. And according to the experts, hot days are its biggest alli. It makes no sense to ban baiting in June and July because of heat, but allow it in August and Sept.

    As the rules are today, its not illegal to bait 30 days before turkey season on your farm. Its only illegal to HUNT that piece of property.
    Fish and Wildlife have no authority to determine what we do on a private piece of property, except those things that involve the taking of game.
    Thats the reason why those who get caught baiting a farm 30 days or sooner before turkey season don't get cited. Fish and Wildlife only has the authority to not allow hunting on that farm, but can't cite because no law has been broken.
    Fish and Wildlife knows that in order to tell people they can't bait, regardless of hunting or not, they must show that said action is detrimental to the herd.
    Thats the whole reason they are introducing this afla toxin scenario. They aren't worried about afla toxin, they just have to have some reason as to why baiting is detrimental to the herd, in order to have the authority to cite for this.
     
  5. aceoky

    aceoky 12 pointer

    13,423
    37
    Jul 14, 2003
    W KY
    First they don't have to 'beat the woods" corn is easily seen from the sky; I HOPE you're not willing to 'bet" on that you're correct here, and if so you'll likley lose........

    Just everyone keep in mind IF you have ANY grain, seed, or pellets that are NOT "normal Ag practice" (as defined already by law) YOU can and likely will be cited........after that it's up to you on whether you want to miss work and incur other expenses........no debate will change any of that, IS that how we want things???

    Maybe it's a "good idea", maybe it's not........as for myself and right now, I'm not convinced that it is.......IF it is, I'm waiting to be convinced.........fair enough??
     
  6. buckfever

    buckfever 12 pointer

    13,197
    46
    Oct 25, 2002
    Harrods Creek Ky, USA.
    Hmmm. . . .seems like we have a number of arguments for and against baiting.

    Pro-baiting:
    1. Congregates deer
    2. Ky tradition
    3. Hunters on small tracts need it
    4. Necessary to insure adequate doe harvest
    5. No documented harm to deer or turkeys
    6. Theoretically same practice as hunting over a food plot
    7. Benefits the animals

    Anti-baiting:
    1. Spreads disease
    2. Make it tough on CO's.
    3. Ky's climate doesn't require supplemental feeding for deer
    4. Poaching device for all the fall turkey hunters
    5. Ethics are questionable (strips away essence of "hunting")
    6. Doesn't work


    I don't care whether they do away with baiting. I personally wouldn't mind seeing it banned, but there's a whole bunch of hunters out there that rely on it.

    I don't think it can reasonably be argued that supplemental feeding benefits the animals. On the other hand, we have a bunch of deer, and you can pretty much bank that we'll see a significant drop-off in our deer harvest if they ban baiting entirely.
     
  7. mossyhorns

    mossyhorns Cyber-Hunter

    1,724
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    Dec 10, 2001
    Murray, Kentucky, USA.
    The issue here is whether you punish honest, hard-working, law-abiding hunters so it will be easier to catch a bum. Why can't an honest hunter carry a concealed handgun while bowhunting?? So that everyone caught with a gun is guilty and without excuse. Why is it illegal to shine you headlights in a field at night to look for deer?? So that everyone who does it will be guilty and without excuse. Now, why can't you put out corn during the magic period?? So that everyone who does will be guilty and without excuse.

    Because the judges won't take a hardline stance on the illegal things, us law-abiding hunters have to give up our liberty to make it easier to catch a thug. If you think about it, it's a variation of the "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" theme.

    What the heck happened to LIBERTY????
     
  8. JDMiller

    JDMiller 12 pointer

    10,734
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    Jun 12, 2005
    " Between the Rivers "

    I've been following this thread for awhile and honestly good points have been made from both sides. However after reading the comments here it does make you think a little harder on things in general. I'm not going to comment on the dates set on the ban....dont follow the reasoning but just wanted to add my thoughts on the subject in general.

    I think most of the posters on this thread can remember back to what hunting was like 25 years ago.... at least around these parts. Hunting was exactly what it's defined as......honest to goodness hunting. The populations of deer & turkey was nowhere near what it is today. You scouted constantly, you addapted to the deers feeding patterns and you hunted hard with little or no opportunity at success.

    The feeding patterns consisted of shifting from late beans to corn fields then on to winter wheat. These were all ag fields and no shape form or fashion were they put there to attract wildlife. I have to throw in a occasional good acorn mast to change things up a little.....in these circumstances you hunted where the deer were. You did'nt have food plots nor was money spent on feeders or shelled corn. You did have a occasional salt lick....in my case you used the left over salt from curing ham or bacon from a late November hog killing and it worked. Usually you had a lot of activity in the summer but by the time October rolled around..... never had much luck hunting around it.

    Then....all of the sudden we had lots of deer & turkeys were soon to follow. We began planting food plots...... buying / building feeders. We built shooting houses...positioned stands over these baitpiles or food plots and basically created a pattern for the deer & turkeys to follow year after year. If your neighbor wanted to attract deer .....he would have to do the same....and usually did. So you had to do a little more.

    Then hunting season rolls around.... lets say deer. We drive out to our places ....walk a short distance....get into the stand or shooting house and wait....not long we see does or bucks and we make a decision of harvest or not harvest. Not much to it anymore.....and we call it hunting. Fact being....we have several generations coming through this era...and thats what they call hunting as well.

    Now....is there anything wrong with this..... probably not and at the present I have about 5 acres of clover thats accounted for a lot of deer & turkey over the last 10 years. I got away from the feeding several years ago after a neighbor piled wheat prior to turkey season and the CO said the only way to hunt was to get rid of it and disk in the spot where it was piled. I helped on this.....it would disgust you at this site. Turkey crap was ankle deep and it reeked. A poultry house did'nt have anything on this spot. It was a act of someone with best intention of having a easier time taking turkeys in the spring.....what it was is the possibillity of disease
    destroying every flock that migrated there from our place as well.

    Gentlemen..... we need to grasp our thoughts on this. I know we have best intentions but do we want to continue to allow the potential of someone else destroying are heards & flocks with not the best intention in mind. Have we become so lax in hunting we forgotten how to addapt. Again.....just my thoughts....I know everyone wont agree.
     
  9. fullstrut1

    fullstrut1 12 pointer

    3,386
    93
    Oct 17, 2005
    Rineyville
    Thanks for helping me realize that I have learned nothing in my 22 years as a Law Enforcement Officer. I have worked in a Narcotics unit the last 10 years and we find it hard to convict someone with video tape evidence. As far as real property being seized from someone just because pot was found growing and the owners were not connected thru physcial evidence, frankly i just do not belive it. I have heard this many times but noone as been able to show me prove that it happened. The truth is if someone lost property they had pretty good evidence against them. I went behind my barn Saturday and my calf creep feeder exploded with turkeys, if what you say is true I guess they will have to cite me for my calf feeder, I hope they do!!!
     
  10. LoweBow

    LoweBow 8 pointer

    835
    0
    Jan 10, 2003
    Shelby Co.
    What the hell did you say in this post?
    I'll have whatever your smokin.....pass it on..[​IMG]
     
  11. deadaim

    deadaim 12 pointer

    6,726
    133
    Dec 12, 2001
    Booger Hollar
    Not Everyone Has a 40 Acre Field to hunt...

    QUOTE : ''I've been following this thread for awhile and honestly good points have been made from both sides. However after reading the comments here it does make you think a little harder on things in general. I'm not going to comment on the dates set on the ban....dont follow the reasoning but just wanted to add my thoughts on the subject in general.

    I think most of the posters on this thread can remember back to what hunting was like 25 years ago.... at least around these parts. Hunting was exactly what it's defined as......honest to goodness hunting. The populations of deer & turkey was nowhere near what it is today. You scouted constantly, you addapted to the deers feeding patterns and you hunted hard with little or no opportunity at success.

    The feeding patterns consisted of shifting from late beans to corn fields then on to winter wheat. These were all ag fields and no shape form or fashion were they put there to attract wildlife. I have to throw in a occasional good acorn mast to change things up a little.....in these circumstances you hunted where the deer were. You did'nt have food plots nor was money spent on feeders or shelled corn. You did have a occasional salt lick....in my case you used the left over salt from curing ham or bacon from a late November hog killing and it worked. Usually you had a lot of activity in the summer but by the time October rolled around..... never had much luck hunting around it.

    Then....all of the sudden we had lots of deer & turkeys were soon to follow. We began planting food plots...... buying / building feeders. We built shooting houses...positioned stands over these baitpiles or food plots and basically created a pattern for the deer & turkeys to follow year after year. If your neighbor wanted to attract deer .....he would have to do the same....and usually did. So you had to do a little more.

    Then hunting season rolls around.... lets say deer. We drive out to our places ....walk a short distance....get into the stand or shooting house and wait....not long we see does or bucks and we make a decision of harvest or not harvest. Not much to it anymore.....and we call it hunting. Fact being....we have several generations coming through this era...and thats what they call hunting as well.

    Now....is there anything wrong with this..... probably not and at the present I have about 5 acres of clover thats accounted for a lot of deer & turkey over the last 10 years. I got away from the feeding several years ago after a neighbor piled wheat prior to turkey season and the CO said the only way to hunt was to get rid of it and disk in the spot where it was piled. I helped on this.....it would disgust you at this site. Turkey crap was ankle deep and it reeked. A poultry house did'nt have anything on this spot. It was a act of someone with best intention of having a easier time taking turkeys in the spring.....what it was is the possibillity of disease
    destroying every flock that migrated there from our place as well.

    Gentlemen..... we need to grasp our thoughts on this. I know we have best intentions but do we want to continue to allow the potential of someone else destroying are heards & flocks with not the best intention in mind. Have we become so lax in hunting we forgotten how to addapt. Again.....just my thoughts....I know everyone wont agree.''...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
    I have 30 Acres of ALL WOODS to hunt I dont Have 500 Acres to " Hunt" it would be awsome but the reality is I have 30 acres of woods. Last year we had Acorns A plenty so hunting was good. This year we have no acorns so I have the feeders set up. My family will not give a DAMN weather or not I killed my deer over a feeder when they are eating venison this winter....without the corn the hunting would be frugle when I have no acorn crop........If I had the time and money and land I would be happy to go on week long hunts covering 100s of miles to "Hunt" for a deer.....But I do not so I do the best with what I have.......I think alot of this No corn crap comes from guys who have plenty of land to hunt and food plots ect..who look down on the little guy and want all the stinking deer to themselves...I think if we outlaw baiting for deer you will see a definate reduction in the doe harvest at least on my dinner table.......My wife and I are working hard to purchase and or lease more land to "Hunt" but in all reality its going to take awhile......
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2006
  12. CM12

    CM12 8 pointer

    769
    0
    Dec 13, 2004
    Knott Co.

    There are folks out there who don't hunt but place corn/bait out so that they can watch the deer/turkey. As a hunter, I would have to argue that these folks be targeted the same as hunters. I also don't think it would be fair to take away some folks only chance of drawing deer/turkey to their property when they're limited to this only chance to do so. For instance, hunters here in the east can't plant the corn fields, food plots, etc. that are so easily done in other parts of the state.

    Question.
    1.) If a cornfield is planted solely for wildlife, would this make it illegal under this proposal??? It wouldn't fall under the normal AG. practice.
    2.) Is it normal AG. practice to leave part of a cornfield ungathered? Doesn't seem profitable financially.
     
  13. aceoky

    aceoky 12 pointer

    13,423
    37
    Jul 14, 2003
    W KY

    Sorry you took it that way.....wasn't my intention, at all...

    As for the man I'm talking about it was BIG news around here; several years ago, in fact I believe the State of Ky had to pay him back for what occured....as I remember it......(IIRC some 2 Million $ in damages and lost property, though I think he lost more than that, and his reputation was "ruined", by what may have been an honest mistake, still they should have proven him guilty BEFORE confiscating property and ruining his life) I'd guess I'm not the only one posting here that remembers that .....:)

    They spotted severl hundred plants on the place,(from the air btw) arrested him (because HE owned that land)...and confiscated EVERYTHING he owned, his wife left him, later divorced him, took the kids (which "destroyed him) in the meantime they sold ALL his properties HE later proved he'd bought this property to help a friend and had NEVER even set foot one on the place.......but it was too late, because "back then" they confiscated and sold BEFORE proving their case, after this happened things changed on that.......

    Was that right? NO, did it happen, yes it did......it's not hard to find, I'd guess, you want the proof, either ask around about that big case or do some research, if you don't want to believe it then don't, it won't change any of what happened to him anyway......:eek:

    As for the calf feeder IF this goes into law it will be for next year, and ONLY on those dates, any other time it's still legal fwiw AND a calf feeder used to feed them would NOT be a violation, since it is a legit farming -AG practice....I don't see any of them citing farmers for legit practices.......even when the birds "help themselves" I don't see how they could cite for that???

    Any other grain, seed, or pellets NOT feeding farm animals will likley result in getting cited.....IF this remains "as is"

    Again , I apologize that you took it that way.
     
  14. aceoky

    aceoky 12 pointer

    13,423
    37
    Jul 14, 2003
    W KY
    Just a plain old legal cig.....but you're welcome to one :D

    "not true by Ky Regulations" .......that is false, No place does Ky regs say the cb is NOT archery, just NOT LEGAL archery equiptment for the entire season (and at one time not so long ago, that was changed to include the cb in case you've forgotten that fact also... fwiw :D

    IF you don't understand the rest of that, well, that's "OK" ;) Since they WERE your points, I agree though they don't make much sense.....:D
     
  15. LoweBow

    LoweBow 8 pointer

    835
    0
    Jan 10, 2003
    Shelby Co.
    Just had a call and a great legit question on this subject.

    A friend that had a 12 acre sunflower/wheat field set up for dove hunting has been mowing strips for the dove opener. He's mowed about 20% and mowed another 20% on Saturday. Saturday night it rained 3" on this fresh cut seed. I can't disagree that this seed will most deff. mold and he's been seeing turkeys along w/ a couple thousand doves feeding in this lot.

    Is this type of concentration of animals on a grain field not a concern when it comes to Alpha toxin and as Doc. Angel kept questioning the spread of Avian Flu.
    Avian Flu was brought up more than once. I would think that concentrating thousands of mourning doves into one area would be worse than concentrating a few turkeys. Doves and all other birds (from my understanding) are just as succeptible to Alpha toxins. Will "legal" baiting of loves by natural farm practices be looked at next because of these same reasons?

    I don't know...This was just the scenario asked to me.
     

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