Dying Sport

[BadDuck]

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

Like I said I've spent thousands and thousands of hours in the woods at night and my experiences echo those of the DNR. Now don't get me wrong if you try to approach the deer I'm sure they will scatter but i've walked with 30 or 40 yards of deer on Knox especially hundreds of times. Why would the DNR lie about their findings? I doubt they have any interest in the coonhunting industry.

Well, Like you I have spent 1000's of hours in the woods as well. Most of which were in the daytime, but over the last 25 years of hunting still managed plenty of time in the woods at night. I know that occasionally animals do unexpected things, but I have yet to walk up on a deer and it remain bedded or just walk off.

I am struggling to understand this. The same deer that will bust through the woods at mere hint of a human during the day will somehow allow a group of noisy men with dogs, shining spotlights, and guns just walk right up on them at night? This is what you are trying to tell me? Is it not?

Even if I hadnt witnessed the exact opposite of this myself, I still wouldnt believe it. It makes absolutely ZERO sense.

[predator]

Originally Posted by HotSpot

i'm a avid coonhunter and its just like any other sport a few bad apples ruins the whole batch. i am fortunate enough to have thousands of acres i have permission to coon hunt on. it just takes time and a little energy to get permission. i have to drive 45 min. to hunt these spots because some hunters (deer/coon hunter) that doesn't respect property has made it nearly impossible to hunt close to home.
i'm sure in other parts of the states coonhunting land is far and few between but get out in the day time and go meet the farmers/ land owners the worst they can do is tell u no. thats all i done then i went to all the joining farms or anywhere they could possibly get and got permission or at least asked them if my dog got on them can i go get him. u will be surprised the amount of hunting land u will aquire.

A great first post.

HotStop is doing, like it or not, what deer hunters had to start doing in the 1980s. Coon hunters, deer hunters, all hunters for that matter, are at the mercy of landowners. Land, any land, is a valuable asset these days. I worked several years for an old Real Estate Broker who would comment about these old "throw-away farms", old grown-up abandoned homeplaces that you couldn't make a living on and how they had no value. Not anymore. Land is viewed in a very different light these days and ownership of land is a source of pride. IMO, respect for another's land is the first step in gaining permission to hunt.

[slickhead slayer]

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

You're right, Slick. He probably falsified information to make coonhunters look good.

I didnt say that. I will say that I was a little perplexed by the last statement in the "study". It says...." Therefore, we recomend that coonhunters, using trained dogs, be allowed access to land that is being used for deer hunting."
That just seems awfully pointed, like someone with an agenda. I have never seen a "study" suggest land usage. They normally provide the outcome of the study, but thats it. It seemed very odd to me.
Add to that, the fact they are reporting deer activity that is the complete opposite of what most of us have witnessed, its all enough to make me skeptical.

[KYhunter79]

Originally Posted by BadDuck

Well, Like you I have spent 1000's of hours in the woods as well. Most of which were in the daytime, but over the last 25 years of hunting still managed plenty of time in the woods at night. I know that occasionally animals do unexpected things, but I have yet to walk up on a deer and it remain bedded or just walk off.

I am struggling to understand this. The same deer that will bust through the woods at mere hint of a human during the day will somehow allow a group of noisy men with dogs, shining spotlights, and guns just walk right up on them at night? This is what you are trying to tell me? Is it not?

Even if I hadnt witnessed the exact opposite of this myself, I still wouldnt believe it. It makes absolutely ZERO sense.

First of all, I don't care if you think I'm lying. I have no reason to lie to you. I have no desire to even try to acquire permission to hunt any of your property.

Secondly, Like I've already said...I didn't say you could walk up to them. But, you can walk near them. I've done it hundreds of times. I never said that you could go up and pet them. But, usually the most they might do is stand up if they were bedded, blow, stamp their foot, or hop 15 feet and stop and look at you pass then go lay back down or continue feeding. Now, don't get me wrong you will get the occasional deer that will jump. But, even then its not the same as it is in the daylight. They will jump and run 50 or a hundred yards and stop when they see you aren't interested. Of course none of this includes approaching the deer directly, stopping to admire them, giving your best mouth grunt, or anything of that nature.

Explain why poachers find it so easy to kill deer at night. There is something about the light if nothing else it intrigues them. I'm sure out of the context of poaching you've had a spotlight shined on a deer before. What did it do 90% of the time? Stood there.

Also as far as being noisy, don't forget that Coonhunters are woodsman too. And dogs? Well, if I'm walking through the woods the dogs are already treed and not with me. I'm not sure what the purpose of having a spotlight out while you were walking would do besides to drain your battery, a simple dim headlamp will do. And I'm not sure if the last comment is to imply that deer know the difference between humans with guns and humans without guns and that they feel differently about them or not?

[BadDuck]

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

First of all, I don't care if you think I'm lying. I have no reason to lie to you. I have no desire to even try to acquire permission to hunt any of your property.

Well we are on the same page about one thing, I could care less how you think as well. Its all about perception, for someone trying to validate the rationale behind coonhunters your not making any friends. While you may not care if you make any friends, you do need the landowner in order to do what you like.

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

Explain why poachers find it so easy to kill deer at night. There is something about the light if nothing else it intrigues them. I'm sure out of the context of poaching you've had a spotlight shined on a deer before. What did it do 90% of the time? Stood there.

This may have been the case 20+years ago, but it isnt now. Most if not all deer in Breckinridge, Grayson and Ohio counties have related spotlights with problems. If you shine a light on a deer around southwestern Breck county it is going to cut a ditch across whereever its standing and isnt going to stop until its safely out of sight. Dont believe me, try it.

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

Also as far as being noisy, don't forget that Coonhunters are woodsman too. And dogs? Well, if I'm walking through the woods the dogs are already treed and not with me. I'm not sure what the purpose of having a spotlight out while you were walking would do besides to drain your battery, a simple dim headlamp will do. And I'm not sure if the last comment is to imply that deer know the difference between humans with guns and humans without guns and that they feel differently about them or not?

Ha, good one. I can only assume that you're coonhunting on a golf course.

Spotlight, flashlight, dim headlamp, whatever. Guns, like the spotlight from the road or from your head, deer have learned to equate the sound of a gun going off at night as trouble. You did say most poachers do the act at night.

Deer have no natural enemies in trees but yet you see them looking up in the trees. Do you think they are admiring the scenery? Or did they learn to relate a threat to the trees? Just like they have learned about spotlights.

I can take this one step further. While hunting over a bean field I have gotten to watch a curious behavior out of the deer herd local to my area. If a vehicle comes down my gravel road (which parts of the field are obscured from the road) driving at a normal rate of speed the deer that are feeding in that field will not even look up. But if that vehicle slows down, the heads come up. Most of the time the vehicle remains unseen but you can tell by the crunching of the gravel how fast, slow or if the vehicle has stopped. How does this relate to you, because deer adapt.

[KYhunter79]

You're right about one thing. I do not care about making friends. Nor do I care to validate the rationale. Either someone will let you hunt or they wont. I'm not going to make a powerpoint.

I'm telling you in Hardin, Breckinridge and Meade counties they will stand there if you hit them with a light. You say they won't, I say they will. No need in arguing over it.

I don't know where the golf course comment is coming from. I never said we were silent, but its like a bunch of kids trapsing through the woods. These are still people that put more time in the woods than the average deer hunter throughout the year. Theres a difference between a headlamp which I can turn down to where it's like a maglight and a spotlight that I carry on my side that will make a street lamp go out by mimicing sunlight. And you said hunters with guns, not hunters shooting guns. There is a huge difference there.

[HotSpot]

i have a funny story,first off i have walked by several deer at night standing 30 -40 yards away, but this takes the cake. i was up in indiana coonhunting at autum oaks, about the 3rd drop that night we turned the dogs acrosses a field surrounded by woods and drains, dogs strike different tracks but ended up split treeing on the other side of the field. mine was treed about 50 or so yards up from the other dogs so i went on to him and handled him. i went back to the other dogs tree to help them find the coon, it was a real weedy area, probably close to waist high. as we was all shinning the tree we heard a load sqawl, one of the cast members stepped on a little doe while shinning. it had been bedded down in that grass about 20 yards from the tree and the dogs. i had done walked passed this deer twice not seeing it. u want to talk about scaring a group of grown mean.

[HotSpot]

we all as sportsman and hunters need to get along. dividing ourselves with all this beckering doesn't solve a thing, it just gives the anti's ammunition. if u as a landowner have problems with tresspassers call the game warden, i bet after paying that 360.00 tresspassing fine they won't be back. people is just going to have to realize times are changing, all these dopers and pillheads running around people wants to know who is sturring around there place. i know sometimes dogs/wounded deers get in spots that u have no control over but if u do the homework nessacary u can avoid alot of problems with land owners.

i'm not taking no sides here but believe me back in my younger days i had been shot at multiple times and held gun point a couple times for tresspassing. its just not worth it to me anymore to risk my life or my dogs life. so now i just put a little more effort into where i hunt and it works out good for me. i only own 3 acres of land but if someone came walking through it at night i'd sure want to know who it was and what was going on, these pillheads anymore will still anything that ain't nailed or bolted down for a quick fix.

[BadDuck]

Originally Posted by KYhunter79

I'm telling you in Hardin, Breckinridge and Meade counties they will stand there if you hit them with a light. You say they won't, I say they will. No need in arguing over it.

Cant speak alot about meade or hardin, although I did live in meade for several years. I wont argue about Breck. You're wrong, I can prove it.

[KYhunter79]

Originally Posted by BadDuck

Cant speak alot about meade or hardin, although I did live in meade for several years. I wont argue about Breck. You're wrong, I can prove it.

lol. I've in Meade and Breckinridge counties my entire life. And have hunted here my entire life. But, I'm glad that you can prove me wrong. You won't get a chance. I'm done arguing with you about this. Even if they did act the way that you're saying at your place it wouldn't mean a whole lot. An isolated event caused by overexposure or lack of exposure to humans means nothing in the grand scheme. Good to know that you do enough spotlighting that you know enough about the deer's reaction to lights at night around your place that you're guaranteed to prove me wrong though.

Have a good hunting season.