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View Full Version : LBL selected for a cougar study



billproxs
01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
http://www.easterncougar.org/newltr_pdf/ecfnew_jan07w.pdf

A few years ago,Trail cameras were set up in Land between the lakes, trying to confirm cougars.

Do you know if they got any cougar pictures?

keith meador
01-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Dude, did you read the memo? Since you are posting up something from THREE years ago, why not just post up the results of the survey.....Surely in THREE years they could have gathered at least 200,000 trail cam pics of cougars running crazy within the confines of the rivers:rolleyes:

Jimmie in Ky
01-10-2010, 08:05 PM
They are waisting trheir time unless they know more about whats going on up there than I do. Cougars are not using normal trails. I found the tracks by accident as have some others I have talked with. They spend more time avoiding the coyotes than they do travleing. Jimmie

quackrstackr
01-10-2010, 08:08 PM
That release is from 2007 and they never got a single picture of a cougar.

GrandSlammer
01-10-2010, 08:08 PM
Come on now Bill...that article is 3 years old!!!

philipfleek
01-10-2010, 08:09 PM
He wants it to be true so bad he cannot stand it! Get hold of yourself son!!!!

billproxs
01-10-2010, 08:13 PM
Dude, did you read the memo? Since you are posting up something from THREE years ago, why not just post up the results of the survey.....Surely in THREE years they could have gathered at least 200,000 trail cam pics of cougars running crazy within the confines of the rivers:rolleyes:


I see your point, but I bet they did not get any pictures of any 170 inch or bigger bucks either. But we all know they live in LBL.

If there were only 5 or 6 cougar in the place, or roaming in and out of the place, the odds of a few trail cams getting photos would be pretty rare.

Even if you put up 100 trail cams, they would only cover 100 trails, so really by them only putting up a few cameras, the odds of them getting any pictures is very rare.

There may not be any cougar on lbl, but then again anything in nature is possible, who knows, if their are cougar in Kentucky, they are probably like 200 inch bucks, most people never see them and they are secretive.

I know a guy in Illinois who has hunted, trapped, and fished for over 40 years, he has never seen a cougar, he used to laugh when people would report them in illinois, but a few years ago a wild cougar was confirmed 2 counties west of where he lives and hunts.

predator1
01-10-2010, 08:18 PM
WOW...Guess some things just keep coming back like a bad case of heartburn:p:p

billproxs
01-10-2010, 08:18 PM
I see that this article was from 2007, but I think they only had the trail cameras out during the summer and spring.

I read on another website that they were going to set up trail cameras each spring and summer from 2007 untill around 2011.

So really the cameras were only up for a few months each year.

keith meador
01-10-2010, 08:22 PM
I see your point, but I bet they did not get any pictures of any 170 inch or bigger bucks either. But we all know they live in LBL.

If there were only 5 or 6 cougar in the place, or roaming in and out of the place, the odds of a few trail cams getting photos would be pretty rare.

Even if you put up 100 trail cams, they would only cover 100 trails, so really by them only putting up a few cameras, the odds of them getting any pictures is very rare.

There may not be any cougar on lbl, but then again anything in nature is possible, who knows, if their are cougar in Kentucky, they are probably like 200 inch bucks, most people never see them and they are secretive.

I know a guy in Illinois who has hunted, trapped, and fished for over 40 years, he has never seen a cougar, he used to laugh when people would report them in illinois, but a few years ago a wild cougar was confirmed 2 counties west of where he lives and hunts.


I am not an antler worshiper, so I don't have the numbers but I would wager one fine Shlitz beer against whatever you are drinking that there have been 170" deer taken on LBL, with a frequency surpassing your cougar kills.

JDMiller
01-10-2010, 08:25 PM
I see that this article was from 2007, but I think they only had the trail cameras out during the summer and spring.

I read on another website that they were going to set up trail cameras each spring and summer from 2007 untill around 2011.

So really the cameras were only up for a few months each year.

Lots of luck with that... (not with finding a cougar)... but leaving cameras out for more than one day in LBL. :D

Might be the reason they have'nt got any pics.:eek:

billproxs
01-10-2010, 08:31 PM
I am not an antler worshiper, so I don't have the numbers but I would wager one fine Shlitz beer against whatever you are drinking that there have been 170" deer taken on LBL, with a frequency surpassing your cougar kills.


There may not be any cougar in lbl or in kentucky, who knows.

Yes you are right, there have been several deer taken at lbl that score 170 or higher.

However, I talked to staff at mamouth cave national park a few months ago, they said that dnr staff at mamouth cave had reported seeing cougar inside the park.

The woman I was talking to said, they could of been released pets, or WILD COUGARS that are roaming into kentucky looking for new habitat.

Another of her ideas was that a wild remenant population could have survived in the appalachian mountains, and over time their numbers have grown, and they may be expanding their range.

predator1
01-10-2010, 08:37 PM
However, I talked to staff at mamouth cave national park a few months ago, they said that dnr staff at mamouth cave had reported seeing cougar inside the park.

The woman I was talking to said, they could of been released pets, or WILD COUGARS that are roaming into kentucky looking for new habitat.

Another of her ideas was that a wild remenant population could have survived in the appalachian mountains, and over time their numbers have grown, and they may be expanding their range.
I think they may have stumbled into some one's "patch" and smoked a little while wondering around in there.;)

philipfleek
01-10-2010, 08:44 PM
billproxs
Fawn


I would love to see everything in this guys favorites on his PC.
Bet it would blow our minds!!!:D

predator1
01-10-2010, 08:50 PM
billproxs
Fawn


I would love to see everything in this guys favorites on his PC.
Bet it would blow our minds!!!:DI would bet "Big Bucks" and "Cougars"....lol...amongst other things:eek:

Cantmisum
01-10-2010, 09:51 PM
I think they may have stumbled into some one's "patch" and smoked a little while wondering around in there.;)
predator1,

I was talking to one of my neighbors,while eating lunch in SummerShade yesterday.During our conversation about the Big Grey Blue coyote that we have both seen the last few years out in his pasture. He mentions that he has seen a big Black Panther out back of his place. His wife also said that something big long and black jump the entire road in front of her car one night around Marrowbone.
From the impression that I get from him. I see no reason for him to be telling me a story . He doesn't hunt and does not come across, to me as the kind of person that would say something just for the sake of conversation.
I wont mention his name but being that you are from around this neck of the woods you my very well be acquainted with him.

kymailman98
01-11-2010, 07:16 AM
All of life, and I'm older than dirt, I've heard these "big cat" stories. I'm certain, that cougars have in the past, and will continue in the future, to show up in areas, in which they are not a native species. That means, some have almost assuredly been in Kentucky, of that, I have no doubt. But, if they had took up a permanant residence here, then there would be cougars getting shot, getting run over, and leaving positive evidence that they are here. So far, I don't think that has been the case.

DUCKY41051
01-11-2010, 07:57 AM
I hate to say this to burst any bubbles, but some yrs back me and duckster2 were drawn to hunt lbl. And i was sitting on a buck only tag, and watched a doe travel down the hill to my right. A few seconds later watched a cougar following her. I remember how shook up i was, having never seen one before. I sat there with a 45 colt and a 300 weatherby hoping that it would just keep going. I wanted to kill it cause it was the most beautiful thing that i had ever seen, but thought i would end up in the pokie if i had pulled the trigger, the cougar was only about 30 yards away. I'll never forget it.

Semp
01-11-2010, 10:47 AM
......but thought i would end up in the pokie if i had pulled the trigger, the cougar was only about 30 yards away.


Pokie or no pokie if I am 30 yards away from a cougar, its gonna get shot.

DUCKY41051
01-11-2010, 10:51 AM
I guess i just didnt realize how big they were, kinda scaredd the s!#t out of me, it just kinda showed up, it looked at me and went on trailing the doe, but made my heart race quite a bit.

billproxs
01-11-2010, 03:11 PM
I am not an antler worshiper, so I don't have the numbers but I would wager one fine Shlitz beer against whatever you are drinking that there have been 170" deer taken on LBL, with a frequency surpassing your cougar kills.


The article does say they found COUGAR TRACKS in LBL.

billproxs
01-11-2010, 03:16 PM
READ THE 2ND PARAGRAPH

They found cougar tracks in LBL

You are all saying there are no cougar, I guess you did not actually read the article,

The second paragraph talks about cougar tracks in LBL. And biologist from the cougar network, agreed that it was Cougar tracks.

wademup
01-11-2010, 03:16 PM
predator1,

I was talking to one of my neighbors,while eating lunch in SummerShade yesterday.During our conversation about the Big Grey Blue coyote that we have both seen the last few years out in his pasture. He mentions that he has seen a big Black Panther out back of his place. His wife also said that something big long and black jump the entire road in front of her car one night around Marrowbone.
From the impression that I get from him. I see no reason for him to be telling me a story . He doesn't hunt and does not come across, to me as the kind of person that would say something just for the sake of conversation.
I wont mention his name but being that you are from around this neck of the woods you my very well be acquainted with him.

Only problem is there is no such thing as a black panther,mountain lions yes,black jaguars yes,black panthers no.They do not exist-period.

wademup
01-11-2010, 03:21 PM
Dont forget LBL has also been home to an extensive search for Bigfoot,if I am not mistaken the group "Leprechauns are real" is scheduled to do a trail cam study in 2010 and "KY Lake Mermaid Foundation"is coming in 2011,an exciting time to live in West Ky for sure.

quackrstackr
01-11-2010, 03:24 PM
READ THE 2ND PARAGRAPH

They found cougar tracks in LBL

You are all saying there are no cougar, I guess you did not actually read the article,

The second paragraph talks about cougar tracks in LBL. And biologist from the cougar network, agreed that it was Cougar tracks.

You must be reading a different article than the rest of us. :confused:




LBL staff loaned her a slide picture of a possible cougar track taken in LBL after a maintenance worker reported seeing a cougar in December of 1992. She and Mark Gumbert presented their research techniques as well as the slide picture at the first Eastern Cougar Conference. Jay Tischendorf and Bob Downing reviewed the slide and concurred the slide was likely to be cougar.

I don't see anything that says they 100% identified it as anything.

Xi Bowhunter
01-11-2010, 04:33 PM
That release is from 2007 and they never got a single picture of a cougar.


They did get some pics of a BIG fallow deer though.

keith meador
01-11-2010, 05:28 PM
Dont forget LBL has also been home to an extensive search for Bigfoot,if I am not mistaken the group "Leprechauns are real" is scheduled to do a trail cam study in 2010 and "KY Lake Mermaid Foundation"is coming in 2011,an exciting time to live in West Ky for sure.


When is the Nesse Festival? I would love to have some real WKY BBQ-ed Loc Ness Monster with a side of tater salad and corn on the cob....Man, all this critter finding has got my tummy hungry!:cool:

billproxs
01-11-2010, 07:26 PM
You must be reading a different article than the rest of us. :confused:

[/LEFT]

I don't see anything that says they 100% identified it as anything.

It is still pretty cool, though that they claim to have found cougar tracks.

billproxs
01-11-2010, 07:31 PM
As state wildlife officials discount rumors of the cougar's existence in Tennessee, the Eastern Puma Research Network has confirmed the existence of cougars in the state.

"There is a population of wild cougars in the Smokey Mountain National Park," said Lutz. "It was confirmed in 1976 that there were between 50 and 70 in East Tennessee and western North Carolina."

But, a closer locale to Dyer County, where a positive identification has been made is at Land Between the Lakes.

The positive identification was made through video and tracks of the animal.

The same man who studied the track from the Cloverdale area made the confirmation.

He is biologist John Vinroot, a graduate of Tom Brown Jr.'s Tracking, Nature and Wilderness Survival School in New Jersey.

Vinroot is a professional and certified tracker as well as an animal identification specialist.

Along with Vinroot, Lutz has two other professionals working Tennessee sightings.

"Seventy percent of sightings turn out to be cats, wolves or coyotes," said Lutz. "However, 30 percent are positive IDs of pumas."

The Eastern Puma Research Network is asking that anyone with a recent or past sighting, as far back as the 1950s, to contact them at 304-749-7778 or by e-mail at epuma@hardynet.com or visit their Web site at www.easternpumaresearch. com


http://www.stategazette.com/story/1490773.html

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Comments

billproxs
01-11-2010, 07:41 PM
As state wildlife officials discount rumors of the cougar's existence in Tennessee, the Eastern Puma Research Network has confirmed the existence of cougars in the state.
"There is a population of wild cougars in the Smokey Mountain National Park," said Lutz. "It was confirmed in 1976 that there were between 50 and 70 in East Tennessee and western North Carolina."
But, a closer locale to Dyer County, where a positive identification has been made is at Land Between the Lakes.
The positive identification was made through video and tracks of the animal.
The same man who studied the track from the Cloverdale area made the confirmation.
He is biologist John Vinroot, a graduate of Tom Brown Jr.'s Tracking, Nature and Wilderness Survival School in New Jersey.
Vinroot is a professional and certified tracker as well as an animal identification specialist.
Along with Vinroot, Lutz has two other professionals working Tennessee sightings.
"Seventy percent of sightings turn out to be cats, wolves or coyotes," said Lutz. "However, 30 percent are positive IDs of pumas." The Eastern Puma Research Network is asking that anyone with a recent or past sighting, as far back as the 1950s, to contact them at 304-749-7778 or by e-mail at epuma@hardynet.com (epuma@hardynet.com) or visit their Web site at www.easternpumaresearch (http://www.easternpumaresearch/). com

Comments
http://www.stategazette.com/images/icons/blog-report.gif Note: The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every

philipfleek
01-11-2010, 07:46 PM
philipfleek shakes his head and walks away!

Get a grip!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

billproxs
01-11-2010, 07:49 PM
philipfleek shakes his head and walks away!

Get a grip!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

This is proof of the existance of cougar in LBL

John Vinroot is a trained Wildlife Biologist he confirmed a cougar in LBL.

Buford
01-11-2010, 07:51 PM
Tom Brown Jr.'s Tracking, Nature and Wilderness Survival School in New Jersey...
That's some pretty strong credentials...;)
not

wademup
01-11-2010, 07:52 PM
[QUOTE
He is biologist John Vinroot, a graduate of Tom Brown Jr.'s Tracking, Nature and Wilderness Survival School in New Jersey.

Is that kinda like the Harvard of cougar tracking?

Please give us a link of the video,of course I am sure it will be dark and fuzzy,oh wait does the cougar have a buck in his mouth in front of a deer feeder?:D

quackrstackr
01-11-2010, 08:01 PM
I have personally seen LBL's cougars.

They seem to congregate between Hillman's Ferry campground and Pisgah Bay around the 4th of July every year and show a particular affinity for expensive boats.

You usually see them sunning on the decks or frolicking in the water with packs of young wolves.

I suspect a few of them may have even been video'd. :eek:

predator1
01-11-2010, 08:16 PM
predator1,

I was talking to one of my neighbors,while eating lunch in SummerShade yesterday.During our conversation about the Big Grey Blue coyote that we have both seen the last few years out in his pasture. He mentions that he has seen a big Black Panther out back of his place. His wife also said that something big long and black jump the entire road in front of her car one night around Marrowbone.
From the impression that I get from him. I see no reason for him to be telling me a story . He doesn't hunt and does not come across, to me as the kind of person that would say something just for the sake of conversation.
I wont mention his name but being that you are from around this neck of the woods you my very well be acquainted with him.
Never seen a black panther, but I do have a farm down towards your neck of the woods loaded with black coyotes:D

billproxs
01-11-2010, 08:32 PM
On the other side of the aisle, state Conservation Officer Diana Filbeck suggests that there's an awful lot of smoke out there not to have some kind of fire. Filbeck, the conservation enforcement officer for Livingston County, said, "I get reports up here on a regular basis. I have reliable people tell me that they see big cats, and I have never heard of anyone in the county having a captive cougar. This just isn't the kind of place where people keep cougars as pets."
Filbeck said some older residents indicate that mountain lion sightings have filtered out of the area for decades. "Some of them say that cougars never were eliminated, that there might not have been many, but that they've always been around in this part of the state."
A flurry of mountain lion reports arose in the Tiline area of Livingston County earlier this year. A few instances of eyewitnesses to big tawny lions crossing roads and appearing in fields emerged.
One incident from the area that was attributed to a big cat got more personal. A Tiline area resident reported that a newly born horse foal was seized where it was dropped and carried a short distance before two dogs on the farm routed the predator. The newborn horse, badly mauled with deep cuts from fangs and/or claws, died as a result.
"As soon as the foal hit the ground, something grabbed it and carried it off maybe 30 yards before two German shepherds got after it, and it dropped the foal and ran," said Filbeck, who investigated. "I looked at the foal and it was severely injured by what appeared to be a big cat. From the depth of the cuts and size of the bite marks, it was no dog or no bobcat." Filbeck has never seen such an animal, but she has fielded enough reports from others that she has a hard time discounting public experiences. "I'd really like to see one sometime from a comfortable distance away," she remarked.

wademup
01-11-2010, 08:51 PM
Big cat threads are a dime a dozen on here,why should we believe yours over the other 50 or so a year.
Proof is all we want,nothing less.

predator1
01-11-2010, 08:54 PM
I'm not calling anyone a liar, nor do I think anyone is crazy. However, I can't help but doubt that there is a thriving population of Mtn lions in Ky. Sure it is possible one may have wondered thru once upon a time, maybe wondering thru right now as we speak. BUT, if one was living here, how come there are NO PICTURES, NO VIDEOS, and NO CARCASSES?? Are they vegetarians that never eat meat? There are to many people out and about on a regular basis stomping all over this fine state for no one to have come across concrete evidence!! How many times have you been out hunting and spotted a big buck, for it to turn out to be a stump?? How many times have you looked up and seen a coyote, for it to end up being a tall patch of dead grass?? BELIEVE NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR, AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE!!!

JDMiller
01-11-2010, 09:02 PM
I have personally seen LBL's cougars.

They seem to congregate between Hillman's Ferry campground and Pisgah Bay around the 4th of July every year and show a particular affinity for expensive boats.


Me too...

A few years ago.... had one try to get in the boat with myself & BIL at Fenton. We decided it was in both of our best interest to resist the attack. However... this was a meager john boat. :D

billproxs
01-11-2010, 09:10 PM
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-146853716.html

CSS archer
01-11-2010, 09:12 PM
When is the Nesse Festival? I would love to have some real WKY BBQ-ed Loc Ness Monster with a side of tater salad and corn on the cob....Man, all this critter finding has got my tummy hungry!:cool:

I photographed her last week...


http://joelacefield.com/data/509/medium/otter_in_water.jpg

predator1
01-11-2010, 09:15 PM
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-146853716.htmlAgain, all talk and no proof!! :cool:

wademup
01-11-2010, 09:16 PM
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-146853716.html

Photo's but unconfirmed sightings?

scratch
01-11-2010, 10:48 PM
I photographed her last week...


http://joelacefield.com/data/509/medium/otter_in_water.jpg

Nesse needs a shave:D

F250Stroke
01-12-2010, 05:29 PM
Dont forget"Leprechauns are real" exciting time to live in West Ky for sure.
They are real and their cereal is GREAT.

ky_limb_hanger
01-12-2010, 08:40 PM
I have personally seen LBL's cougars.

They seem to congregate between Hillman's Ferry campground and Pisgah Bay around the 4th of July every year and show a particular affinity for expensive boats.

You usually see them sunning on the decks or frolicking in the water with packs of young wolves.

I suspect a few of them may have even been video'd. :eek:

Sign me up Quackrstackr!

I think the videos have been edited for an ABC show... Cougartown?

eleaf
01-12-2010, 09:10 PM
All of life, and I'm older than dirt, I've heard these "big cat" stories. I'm certain, that cougars have in the past, and will continue in the future, to show up in areas, in which they are not a native species. That means, some have almost assuredly been in Kentucky, of that, I have no doubt. But, if they had took up a permanant residence here, then there would be cougars getting shot, getting run over, and leaving positive evidence that they are here. So far, I don't think that has been the case.

Cougars, Mountain Lions and Florida Panthers are all the same species that vary in size depending on habitat (think white tail where those in South Florida are really small on average, while those in Wisconsin are HUGE in comparison). Being that there are cats which are the same species spread out across the US (the Everglades and out west), you can bet with all certainty that those same cats at one time called KY home. They certainly didn't fly over the southeast on their way to/from Florida.

IF there are cougars in KY I wouldn't be too surprised. That said, even in environs where they are known to live, the Everglades for instance, to see one is extremely rare, even for those who seek them out for a living. Even rangers who work in the Everglades who's job is to look for signs of them very rarely ever see them. Some never see one at all, but do see signs that they are around.