Why are some people against guns?

[BurleyDog]

When I was in college I knew folks that didn't like hunting and within a few minutes of talking I had them understanding my views.

But what I wonder is this- The average ignorant person who is anti-gun.. what is there rational behind their belief? Is it no experience, is it media bias, is it television programs, rap music, what?

I firmly believe that it isn't a liberal - conservative issue. Lets not go there. Lets talk about those people that are anti gun and try to figure out why they are...

Enlighten me!

[KY_Fried]

Guns are far and away the weapon of choice and are used to kill a LOT of people. Some people just think that if the guns go away then so will the violence. They obviously just don't understand that the world wasn't exactly peaches & cream before gunpowder was invented either.

[JeepComanche]

Guns kill people...........well, thats what I hear. That should open an avenue for discussion.

[wademup]

Lets face it a lot of people are trying to figure out how to keep people from dying! Fast food,cigs,guns etc.. It wont work but idiots are spending a lot of time trying anyway.

[aceoky]

Some folks live in an outright fantasy world, where when the laws don't work (murder is already illegal) more laws have to work! :D

[trust me]

In a word, it's ignorance. All they know about guns is what they learned on Law and Order.

I dated a woman that hated the NRA because, in her words, "Deer hunters don't need guns that go "brrp-brrp-brrp (full-auto sound)".

I had to explain that we don't hunt with brrp guns, it's already against the law, wastes meat, etc. All the popular misconceptions have to be patiently refuted, one at a time.

The way I do it is to get their objections down on paper. Get them to write down each objection in a single clear sentence. Then get on the internet and pull up the facts and figures that refute each one. They can call you a liar and they can dismiss the NRA as propoganda, so get your facts from an objective source.

I find that most people are fine with hunting in and of itself, but they have been brainwashed into thinking some guns are inherently dangerous or specifically designed to kill people. It opens their eyes when you show them a deadly evil 7.62x39 round next to the venerable, weak, but socially acceptable 30-30 Win. They honestly have no idea that full-auto weapons have been heavily regulated in this country since about 1928 and that no legally owned full autos have ever been used in a crime. (That was true a few years ago, I hope it still is.)

I have a co-worker that is a gun owner and hunter and he hates the NRA. He says all the defeated gun laws are common sense measures that should be enacted. He didn't know what to say when I showed him a transcript of Ted Kennedy's 2006 Senate speech, and the text of his law that was defeated. In it, "cop killer bullet" was defined as any bullet that is capable of penetrating standard body armor, and as such would be banned. That includes virtually every centerfire rifle cartridge, even the tiny 22 Hornet. "But that's not really what Teddy meant," was his reply. It sure is what he meant and wrote, and my coworker had to admit that there would room for abuse in this law. Still, he believes that the evil NRA and Dick Cheney are out to kill all the little innocent babies.

[aceoky]

no legally owned full autos have ever been used in a crime. (That was true a few years ago, I hope it still is.)


IIRC , the only instance of any "legally owned" full auto being used illegally was by a LEO (who didn't own the gun but got it from an evidence room to commit the crime with it ).........

[wademup]

I used to be in the "assault weapons" business,I dealt strictly in AR-15 parts and accesories,I also sold class 3 parts and accesories,machine guns are big dollar toys and most of my clients in class 3 stuff were wealthy,many Dr's,lawyers etc.... My wife was shocked at just how nice many of the folks I dealt were,I wish the average person who is anti-gun could have spent a few days with me at Knob Creek,they would have been shocked by the family atmosphere amongst the class 3 crowd.
Oh sure there were some strange folks around and unfortunately they are the ones who get all the attention. Not to make this political but I have a friend who is a Democrat and he does not believe that the national party is anti-gun because the local democrats are not,that scares me.Many gun owners just refuse to believe that they could ever lose their rights and that is foolish and naieve on their part.

[BurleyDog]

Well the reason I ask is because I think that we need to work on educating people and our image.

My fiance once said something negative about semi-automatic guns. I quickly schooled her and she was just shocked when she learned the facts. She felt lied to.

I am concerned about gun rights, thats all. I read about hunting in Australia this year and it just totally freaked me out!

[trust me]

I am concerned about gun rights, thats all. I read about hunting in Australia this year and it just totally freaked me out!

Next, you need to read about hunting in England. Oh, never mind. They don't hunt over there anymore, unless they are rich, royal, and own the land.

Right now, the Brits and Aussies wish like hell they'd had an NRA a few years ago. Somebody remind me again why this supposedly can't happen here in the USA?

The only reason it hasn't happened already is the NRA. Join today.

[wademup]

Well the reason I ask is because I think that we need to work on educating people and our image.

My fiance once said something negative about semi-automatic guns. I quickly schooled her and she was just shocked when she learned the facts. She felt lied to.

I am concerned about gun rights, thats all. I read about hunting in Australia this year and it just totally freaked me out!

You could not be more correct on all points,I spend a lot of time on this board trying to convince hunters that we need to put on a good face also.Many hunters could care less about full auto's or even AR-15's for that matter,they think it doesn't concern them,many on this board think it is fine to attack others who dont hunt they way they do or with the same weapon etc.. Gun owners and hunters both are suffering in our public image and we either quit killing our wounded or we all go down together.
As long as we dont care about each other politicians wont either.

[Colorado_Hunter]

Next, you need to read about hunting in England. Oh, never mind. They don't hunt over there anymore, unless they are rich, royal, and own the land.

Right now, the Brits and Aussies wish like hell they'd had an NRA a few years ago. Somebody remind me again why this supposedly can't happen here in the USA?

The only reason it hasn't happened already is the NRA. Join today.

Exactly and if someone is too cheap to join the NRA, the NRA is giving away free membership for a year.

[predator1]

Funny how everyone believes what the Media tells them is true but can't seem to believe the Bible?:confused::confused:

[killinmammals]

In a word, it's ignorance..
Yeah, basically thats it
IIRC , the only instance of any "legally owned" full auto being used illegally was by a LEO (who didn't own the gun but got it from an evidence room to commit the crime with it ).........
which would me it wasn't legally his, so it was basically an illegal weapon

If guns kill people, then I want my money back on all my guns because all of them don't work right, none of them have killed anyone

[ResidentCombo]

If guns kill people, Do pencils mis-spell words?

[wprebeck]

If guns kill people, Do pencils mis-spell words?

Better quote, that a member of another forum I frequent uses for a sigline -


"Guns cause crime, like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat."

[Ky'sFinest]

Next, you need to read about hunting in England. Oh, never mind. They don't hunt over there anymore, unless they are rich, royal, and own the land.

Right now, the Brits and Aussies wish like hell they'd had an NRA a few years ago. Somebody remind me again why this supposedly can't happen here in the USA?

The only reason it hasn't happened already is the NRA. Join today.


trust me, you always come thru with a good comment. this one is exactly correct.

even if you disagree with the tactics and strategies of the NRA its like the old saying goes...
"the enemy of my enemy is my best friend."

the second amendment to me is like a political litmus test. if you don't like the second amendment then you aren't an american imo.

[brickmaster1248]

I would like to start off by saying that I don't 'hate' the NRA. Hate is self destructive and leaves the 'hated' organisism unaffected.

I merely view the NRA thru the lenses of reality.We no longer can afford 'rose colored glasses'....we have lost entirely too many freedoms because of that. That being said....We have the right to own firearms. This, not the NRA, has served as the only deterrent to tyranny for the last 200+ years, and it is still the only deterrent today. What is so dangerous, though, is that instead of taking away the RTKBA all at once, we have a system of "incrementalism"; a slow death. The powers that be realize that an attempt to totally disolve the RTKBA would be met with a resistance that has not been witnessed on American soil since the late 18th century. Instead, they have chipped away a little at a time, with plots like "common-sense" regulation and "legitimate sporting purpose". While it is enough to make some of us frothing mad, to most gun owners, it is just mildly-irritating; therein lies the danger, the danger being apathy. Another danger born out of all this is greed, one of the hallmarks of the organization that some claim to be "our best bet for RTKBA freedom." Not only has the NRA allowed most of the "chipping away" to pass unopposed, but they have given direct support to it.

When the final blow comes to RTKBA, and believe me, it will, do you truly believe the NRA will stand behind you guys? They will not. They will leave you guys "high and dry" faster than fat kids to a bursted pinata. That's just my 2 cents, however, everyone has to make a decision on their own. You can do the research of the documented facts, and in doing so, you guys will see that i am telling you the absolute, unadulterated truth OR you can give your money to Wayne Lapierre, and help them support even more of the "chipping away" and eventual destruction of the 2nd that is to come.

Im prepared to get flamed by the board,so flame on. lol

[mrdux]

Proud NRA lifer here and I'll continue to take my chances by sending my $$ to them so they will continue to fight for 2nd Amendment rights for even those too stupid to believe they are.

[trust me]

I would like to start off by saying that I don't 'hate' the NRA. Hate is self destructive and leaves the 'hated' organisism unaffected.

I merely view the NRA thru the lenses of reality.We no longer can afford 'rose colored glasses'....we have lost entirely too many freedoms because of that. That being said....We have the right to own firearms. This, not the NRA, has served as the only deterrent to tyranny for the last 200+ years, and it is still the only deterrent today. What is so dangerous, though, is that instead of taking away the RTKBA all at once, we have a system of "incrementalism"; a slow death. The powers that be realize that an attempt to totally disolve the RTKBA would be met with a resistance that has not been witnessed on American soil since the late 18th century. Instead, they have chipped away a little at a time, with plots like "common-sense" regulation and "legitimate sporting purpose". While it is enough to make some of us frothing mad, to most gun owners, it is just mildly-irritating; therein lies the danger, the danger being apathy. Another danger born out of all this is greed, one of the hallmarks of the organization that some claim to be "our best bet for RTKBA freedom." Not only has the NRA allowed most of the "chipping away" to pass unopposed, but they have given direct support to it.

When the final blow comes to RTKBA, and believe me, it will, do you truly believe the NRA will stand behind you guys? They will not. They will leave you guys "high and dry" faster than fat kids to a bursted pinata. That's just my 2 cents, however, everyone has to make a decision on their own. You can do the research of the documented facts, and in doing so, you guys will see that i am telling you the absolute, unadulterated truth OR you can give your money to Wayne Lapierre, and help them support even more of the "chipping away" and eventual destruction of the 2nd that is to come.

Im prepared to get flamed by the board,so flame on. lol

Now, make your case. Show us how the NRA has supported this "chipping away" that you reference. You may be able to totally change my mind about them.

The way I see it, the "chipping away" has been fought tooth and nail by the NRA and they've won a few, lost a few. If there is more to the story, give us good documented evidence and we'll be better informed.

I remember Clintons Assault weapon ban of 1994. I went to bed one night and Clinton was a vote shy of passing it, and the libs were on TV blasting the NRA with everything they had. I went to bed confident it was beaten. But when I woke up, I found some congressman had changed his mind and the gun ban passed by one vote, and Ted and Bill and Hillary were all over TV, crowing about their resounding defeat of the NRA.

10 years later, Geo. Bush allowed the gun ban to expire, against the wishes of the liberals and with the full support of the NRA. If you've bought a 15 round magazine for your pistol or for your AR-15 lately, you need to send a letter of thanks to Bush and LaPierre.

If the gun banners view the NRA as the enemy, then the NRA is my friend. Maybe their motives aren't the purest, but they are big and intimidating to the enemy. I'll give them a few bucks and feel good doing it.

[trust me]

Ball is in your court. Let's see what you are talking about.

How has the NRA supported the eroding of gun rights?

[brickmaster1248]

Now, make your case. Show us how the NRA has supported this "chipping away" that you reference. You may be able to totally change my mind about them.


I appreciate the oppurtunity trustme. I want to first say that I want to support the NRA, really I do but I am a hard lined "shall not be infringed" supporter of gun rights and that is not what the NRA of today is showing me. I think we can agree on that.

Heres my summary of the reasons why I take issue with the NRA. I have compiled this info over a period of time and it is saved on my computer for reference.

Compromise = A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.
What concessions has the other side made? Our side has to agree to incremental infringements of our constitutional rights now, rather than loosing them one all at once??? Where is the “compromise” in this?

What HARM can they do or have they done?

Let us first consider the “Uniform Machinegun Act of 1932” which provided for the registration of machine guns, that was adopted in a few states which was developed with the support of the NRA, BEFORE the feds ultimately adopted the “National Firearms Act” in 1934.

The reason this stands out, is that MANY people believe that the “National Firearms Act of 1934 was the pivotal law, the first of the UNconstitutional laws. Thereby “starting” an ever widening path, allowing for further infringements. Not so, the NRA was first.

The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938, which regulates interstate
and foreign commerce in firearms and pistol, revolver ammunition.

The NRA supported legislation to amend the “Federal Firearms Act” in regard to handguns when it was introduced in August, 1963.

In 1965, the NRA continued its support of an expansion of the above legislation to include rifles and shotguns, as well as handguns.
Additionally the NRA supported the regulation of the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:
1. Requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;
2. Providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;
3. Requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;
4. Prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;
5. Providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce, and;
6. Increasing penalties for violation.

NRA HELPED WRITE the 1986 federal law prohibiting the manufacture and importation of "armor piercing ammunition" adopted standards.

The NRA has been hard at work, over the last few years, turning a RIGHT (guaranteed by our constitution) into a revocable PRIVILEGE. Many pro-gun people commend them for this. Others see it for what it really is.

“Project EXILE” IS the NRA’s very own project.
NRA'S project (EXILE) supports ALL UNconstitutional gun laws. Handgun Control Inc. supports it TOO. NRA-ILA Executive Director James Jay Baker commented, "I'm glad that the president has finally agreed with the NRA that enforcing federal firearms laws makes sense. We've been pushing for more enforcement of existing laws.

Did anyone tell them that ALL of the 20,000 gun laws are UNCONSTITUTIONAL??? OF COURSE Handgun Control Inc. supports this NRA project.

Schools
Then NRA Executive Vice President Wayne R. LaPierre, Jr., made these damaging statements during his nationally televised speech at the Denver NRA Members Meeting May 1, 1999. "First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.”

All across the country, school boards and state legislators started doing precisely what LaPierre suggested: shutting down school riflery programs, prohibiting historical firearms displays, forbidding hunter safety training with unloaded guns, and banning gun possession by teachers and other adults with carry licenses. A good example of the long range implications of what LaPierre endorsed back then, is the recent tragedy at Virginia Tech.

Making schools a “gun free zone” where lunatics can murder with impunity, was his response to the Columbine shootings? What happened to advocating responsible carry, by responsible citizens???

LaPierre also blessed gun show background checks by saying: "We will consider instant checks at gun shows when, and only when, this Administration stops (charging for NICS
checks) and stops illegally compiling the records of millions of lawful gun buyers."

The next day President Charlton Heston flatly said on ABC "This Week" that he was "in favor of" gun show background checks. Within weeks, bills for gun show background checks - and "youth gun access" bans - had been submitted in both houses of Congress!

First amendment rights?
Was it the National Rifle Association that had ONE OF IT’S OWN MEMBERS, a pro-gun activist, ARRESTED at its national convention on, April 27, 2003 in Orlando, Florida for handing out PRO-gun freedom literature from an organization known as the Free State Project, Inc. The unlucky NRA member was Timothy Condon, a Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and Director of Member Services for the rapidly growing Free State Project.


It was NRA PRESIDENT Dr. C.R. (Pink) Gutermuth, who saw "no problem with gun registration," and was head of the Wildlife Management Institute, who became NRA President in 1973.

Part of the problem began during the unlamented regime of former Executive Vice President Warren Cassidy. NRA lobbyists under Cassidy stopped opposing gun control bills and started offering NRA-approved versions of the same legislation. The NRA started WRITING ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION.

Politicians were lobbying their colleagues for the so-called "instant check?" These pro-gunners were pushing a gun control bill that the NRA was strongly supporting.

Jim Baker of the NRA was quoted by USA Today on October 26, 1993 as saying: "We already support 65% of the Brady bill, because it moves to an instant check, which is WHAT WE WANT."

NRA spokesman Bill McIntrye said that the instant background check also in the bill "will be a victory for gun owners.

From NRA Board member Tanya Metaksa.
I think this agreement was a victory for those who see flaws in the current bill. This is a much different Brady bill. This bill sunsets into what we've been supporting for several years [the instant check]. If you look at it in the long range, IT‘S OUR BILL in five years.

The NRA tried to derail a case in Washington DC. The “Parker v. District of Columbia” case. First by trying to have the case consolidated with NRA controlled litigation, which would have drug this case out for YEARS. When that failed, the NRA got behind, and was pushing for the “DC Personal Protection Act” bill, which would, in effect, remove the law that the “Parker v. District of Columbia” case was based upon. Thereby preventing the “Parker v. District of Columbia” case from going before the supreme court.

Why would they try to derail a case that ultimately DID overturned a gun ban, and potentially settle the long disputed “individual right v. the right of the militia” to keep and bear arms? Because they said it was “too good” and might actually make it before the supreme court? A supreme court (considering the make up of it at present) where we have the best chance of them handing down a favorable ruling, than we have had in decades. With the very real potential, of the democrats gaining control in the next election (thereby giving them the opportunity to choose the next judges) if not now, WHEN?


Lets look at ANOTHER bill backed by the NRA. H.R. 2640, the "NICS Improvement Amendments Act” Admittedly, as always, there are some “supposedly” pro-gun people that are in favor of this. For me, to see the first red flags thrown up, are to look at who is sponsoring/co-sponsoring this bill. Carolyn McCarthy along with Barbara Boxer. Nevermind the far reaching implications, with the potential of opening a Pandora’s box, concerning the mental health issue regarding veterans, as well as anyone else that has seen some kind of mental issue. (children diagnosed with ADD? etc). The UNconstitutional NICS check should not be EXPANDED upon, in the first place.


Lets not forget the NRA BOARD MEMBER (Joaquin Jackson) who “indicated” that “assault rifles” should only be in the hands of the military and/or law enforcement. But since they ARE legal for civilians to own, then civilians should be limited to 5 round magazines.

I hope i have been helpful. The 2 Amendment is very clear. You either support it in its entirety or you do not. There is no middle ground.

[brickmaster1248]

Ball is in your court. Let's see what you are talking about.

How has the NRA supported the eroding of gun rights?

Is that good enough? Wasnt expecting all that was you?

[trust me]

Is that good enough? Wasnt expecting all that was you?

Sadly, yes, it was what I expected. In tone, if not volume.

I have scanned your manifesto, will read it closer when I have the time, and have decided that my personal beliefs are much more closely aligned with the NRA's than with your own.

When some organization comes along that can protect my gun rights better than the NRA, I'll throw in with them. But right now, the NRA is the biggest, best organized, most feared lobbying group in DC and I'll continue to put my trust in them.

Are you really against instant background checks???

[brickmaster1248]

Sadly, yes, it was what I expected. In tone, if not volume.

I have scanned your manifesto, will read it closer when I have the time, and have decided that my personal beliefs are much more closely aligned with the NRA's than with your own.

When some organization comes along that can protect my gun rights better than the NRA, I'll throw in with them. But right now, the NRA is the biggest, best organized, most feared lobbying group in DC and I'll continue to put my trust in them.

Are you really against instant background checks???

Then you dont believe in "shall not be infringed"? You dont believe in the Constitution as it was written and intended by the Founding Fathers?

Aint America great? We all can beleive how we want(for now anyways).

Ive done my best to show my reasons that I take issue with the NRA. The NRA has my full support when it comes to their marksmaship and Eddie Eagle programs ect. Those type of progrrams is the original intent of the NRA and not a lobby group. When they made the change i dont really know.

As far as instant check is concerned......NICS is a crock of crap. See there is this thing that goes on everyday all around us its called private transactions of firearms. You have participated in it, I have participated in it, we all have more than likely. So as long as this is going on, and it will continue even after the day of total banning of guns/confiscation, what the hell does NICS stop? Now ill give it to you that it will stop certain individuals from being able to obtain a gun at a licensed FFL dealers store but how will it stop private transactions?

Even if they banned private transactions of firearms today, it will still happen in our living rooms,Walmart parking lot, at the Hunting club or amongs family members and everywhere else that people trade guns privately.

There is no law,regulation,edict or whatever that will ever stop a criminal from obtaining a weapon if he/she is hell bent on doing so. So why have any (gun-laws)of them?

A person is either in favor of guncontrol or they are not, one is in support of the constitution or they are not. There is no middle ground. Straddling the fence is rather painful isnt it? What i am saying in a nutshell is folks beleive in freedom or they hate it. Impossible to be in the middle. Communist/socialist/marxist who beleives infringments of freedoms is ok no matter how small or Freedom loving individual who just wants to pursue life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Make your decison.


Look into the the Gun Owners of America and the JPOF. They have so far best i can tell been a no compromise group. they are not as large as the NRA but are growing. Check them out. Thank you for the debate. Ill check back in later.

[trust me]

I have no problem with middle ground. Just like the First Amendment, there is a gray area in the RKBA. I believe it was Oliver Wendell Holmes that made the "Fire in a crowded theater" argument. He pointed out that I have the freedom of speech to stand out in the town square and preach any sort of inane drivel that I choose, but I can't say something that would cause harm or incite a riot. I can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, nor can I threaten, libel or slander. It's common sense.

Likewise, I have the freedom to own guns, but I don't think i should be able to freely trade full auto weapons to anyone and everyone. I don't think criminals and the mentally ill should own weapons, but I recognize that there isn't much we can do to prevent it. An NCIS instant check has it's limitations but it doesn't hinder any law-abiding citizen's ownership of guns. I'm fine with that.

You are correct; I have bought and sold guns privately. I want to continue to be able to do so. But I've never sold a gun to anyone that I suspected of having criminal intent. If the town thug wanted to buy a gun, I'd refuse the sale. It's common sense.

I agree that gun laws can be abused. My father had his FFL license for many years. He passed away in 91, and a few years later the ATF called the house and when informed that he was dead, the ATF asked my mother to forward all of his 4473 records to them. She refused. She told them they were free to drive up the holler and look at them, but she wasn't spending the postage for them. They backed down.

I don't trust the gov't as far as I can throw Ted Kennedy but I recognize that all rights come with certain responsibilities and laws are often necessary to enforce those responsibilities.

[BurleyDog]

Dang. I am not gonna read all that.

I will say this though. I think that membership in a group sometimes causes complacency. People join, feel like the group is doing its job and then stop doing their own investigating, etc.

Joining the NRA is good in my book. But more importantly its important to check into EVERY person you vote for and make sure you are supporting the right person (in terms of our rights).

What I was hoping to get at though is this. What can we do in our everyday lives to give an example to others to paint guns in a positive light?

[trust me]

What I was hoping to get at though is this. What can we do in our everyday lives to give an example to others to paint guns in a positive light?

Take a novice shooting. Give them the safety lecture, give them hearing protection, and let them blow stuff up. Kids, women, everybody likes the power of being able to reach out and touch something.

They'll discover that guns are inanimate objects and can't leap up and hurt someone.

[utkpres]

Educate everyone that their single vote in elections is the very best way to promote, or help take away, our gun rights. Mischief is disguised with laws all the time. Emboldening those that are anti gun by electing them to office is what we have to fear.

BTW I'm a life member of the NRA and proud to be so. Check out the page come election time and see who gets and A and who gets an F concerning gun owners.

[brickmaster1248]

I have no problem with middle ground. Just like the First Amendment, there is a gray area in the RKBA. I believe it was Oliver Wendell Holmes that made the "Fire in a crowded theater" argument. He pointed out that I have the freedom of speech to stand out in the town square and preach any sort of inane drivel that I choose, but I can't say something that would cause harm or incite a riot. I can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, nor can I threaten, libel or slander. It's common sense.

Likewise, I have the freedom to own guns, but I don't think i should be able to freely trade full auto weapons to anyone and everyone. I don't think criminals and the mentally ill should own weapons, but I recognize that there isn't much we can do to prevent it. An NCIS instant check has it's limitations but it doesn't hinder any law-abiding citizen's ownership of guns. I'm fine with that.

You are correct; I have bought and sold guns privately. I want to continue to be able to do so. But I've never sold a gun to anyone that I suspected of having criminal intent. If the town thug wanted to buy a gun, I'd refuse the sale. It's common sense.

I agree that gun laws can be abused. My father had his FFL license for many years. He passed away in 91, and a few years later the ATF called the house and when informed that he was dead, the ATF asked my mother to forward all of his 4473 records to them. She refused. She told them they were free to drive up the holler and look at them, but she wasn't spending the postage for them. They backed down.

I don't trust the gov't as far as I can throw Ted Kennedy but I recognize that all rights come with certain responsibilities and laws are often necessary to enforce those responsibilities.

Man we sure have hijacked this thread havent we? lol

You sound like a very reasonable man, a man i would love to sit down and have a cool beverage with.

We have over 20,000 laws currently on the books. I would think that would just about cover it, wouldnt you? You specifically adressed full-auto's above which leads me to my next question. Why wouldnt the same "common sense" that you use when you sell privately not work with a machine gun also? What is so scary about a gun that shoots fast? After all a gun is just a tool right? Is it because it has no "sporting" purpose? (sarcasm) If i told you I hunted with one of those Evil black rifles(semi-auto) would it horrify you? No need to answer any of these questions cause we are going to have to agree to disagree on the issue im sure.

By the way, your mom and the way she stood up to the man is commendable and I would praise her for it. She showed more balls than most men. She, Im sure understands what freedom is.

[turk2di]

The only people that are against guns are those that dont use one!

[trust me]

Man we sure have hijacked this thread havent we? lol

You sound like a very reasonable man, a man i would love to sit down and have a cool beverage with.

If i told you I hunted with one of those Evil black rifles(semi-auto) would it horrify you? No need to answer any of these questions cause we are going to have to agree to disagree on the issue im sure.


Well, it needed hijacked, in my view. We took the thread places it would never have gone on its own.:D

I suspect we'd get along fine. And no, I wouldn't be shocked to see you hunt with a black rifle. I'd probably ask to run a couple magazines through it. I've kinda gotten intrigued by them lately and if the cost ever comes down I may find room for one myself. I don't have a semi-auto rifle but the old Browning A-5 still will bring home supper if I need it to.

As for full auto, I've never had the pleasure. I've heard the sound once or twice back in the remote places though. Sends a tingle down the spine, to be sure. I haven't researched it thoroughly but I was always under the impression that full-auto was a real problem back in the bad old days of the Depression. Thompsons and BAR's were used to devastating effect against law enforcement. I know that a semi-auto carbine can be emptied in the blink of an eye but a full-auto has to be somewhat faster, and the trigger finger won't get tired...

[brickmaster1248]

Well, it needed hijacked, in my view. We took the thread places it would never have gone on its own.:D

I suspect we'd get along fine. And no, I wouldn't be shocked to see you hunt with a black rifle. I'd probably ask to run a couple magazines through it. I've kinda gotten intrigued by them lately and if the cost ever comes down I may find room for one myself. I don't have a semi-auto rifle but the old Browning A-5 still will bring home supper if I need it to.

As for full auto, I've never had the pleasure. I've heard the sound once or twice back in the remote places though. Sends a tingle down the spine, to be sure. I haven't researched it thoroughly but I was always under the impression that full-auto was a real problem back in the bad old days of the Depression. Thompsons and BAR's were used to devastating effect against law enforcement. I know that a semi-auto carbine can be emptied in the blink of an eye but a full-auto has to be somewhat faster, and the trigger finger won't get tired...

Browning A-5? Man i love those old shotguns. Very fine weapon!

Sounds like to me you need a full-auto experiance. I dont own any cause of all the redtape involved but i do occasionally get my hands on a legally obtained machinegun when I can get my friend to come out and shoot. I would recomend just for heck of it, for you tomake a trip to the machine gun shoot in Bullit County this spring. Hundreds of machine guns rocking and rolling all day! Funny thing is no one is ever murdered or harmed from the guns. I would venture to say that At the time of the shoot, Bullit County is the most heavily armed and safest place in the state.

I wonder why no one else joined in? Wouldve made it more fun. I figured I would get absolutely flamed by the whole board when i joined the discussion since im not a very well known contributor to this forum. I would really have like to got a better idea on how folks see the 2A and the interpretation. I know, I know....its more of a hunting forum is probably the reason. I dont get out and hunt as much anymore but i do enjoy reading about all you guys and your experiances.

Have a good hunting season and be safe!

Dan

[brickmaster1248]

Proud NRA lifer here and I'll continue to take my chances by sending my $$ to them so they will continue to fight for 2nd Amendment rights for even those too stupid to believe they are.

Somehow I missed this the otherday........Feeble attempt at a personal attack my friend. Ill leave it at that. I think I have shown how the NRA is not the "savior" of gun rights like many believe. Go ahead and try to prove my facts wrong, chances are you wont be able too....1st reason being that you are wearing the rose coloured glasses i referred to. 2nd reason being......nevermind Im going to be nice.

[brickmaster1248]

Dang. I am not gonna read all that.

I will say this though. I think that membership in a group sometimes causes complacency. People join, feel like the group is doing its job and then stop doing their own investigating, etc.

Joining the NRA is good in my book. But more importantly its important to check into EVERY person you vote for and make sure you are supporting the right person (in terms of our rights).

What I was hoping to get at though is this. What can we do in our everyday lives to give an example to others to paint guns in a positive light?

Isnt that excuse that our Congress is using when asked it they are going to read the health care bill or other long winded legislation? Remind me not to vote for you if you ever run for office.

[anvil]

This would end alot of gun laws.