I think this is BS [Archive] - Kentucky Hunting Forums

drakeshooter

08-31-2009, 08:26 AM

Isn't there enough real crime going on that there is little need in creating it? I think this is just plain stupid and very wrong.

I believe wholeheartedly that local police have much better work to do than this pile of crap:

From the Paducah Sun, Monday, Aug. 31, 2009 edition:

Ethical operation or entrapment?
Police exercise results in five theft arrests

By Shelley Byrne sbyrne@paducahsun.com--270.575.8667

Monday, August 31, 2009

Paducah police say an operation where they planted a purse in a busy parking lot generated a lot of interest from passersby, but only a handful of cases led to theft charges being filed.

Paducah police Sgt. Brian Laird said that in 77 of the 82 cases where people picked up the purse, no charges were filed. But five cases did result in arrests for theft.

An attorney for one of those five people says he believes the planted purse was police entrapment.

How the operation worked

Over two weeks, police placed the purse in a shopping cart in a return rack outside two Wal-Mart stores and two Kroger grocery stores. The purse contained $50 in cash, a gift card as well as multiple other items, several of which had the owner’s name on them, Laird said. Undercover officers then watched the purse to see what would happen.

“In these situations what we would like to have seen is what the 77 people did,” Laird said. “They took it into Wal-Mart and turned it in, or they took it into Kroger and turned it in.”

The person could also have attempted to call the owner of the purse or police, Laird said.

The police department chose the stores because they have busy parking lots that include shopping cart return racks, Laird said. They developed the idea for the operation after talking about ways to deter check forgeries, credit card thefts and identity thefts. Petty thefts tend to increase as it gets closer to the holiday season, so police saw the operation as a chance to deter those kinds of crimes early, he said.

“We’ve had a few cases where a purse or wallet was stolen when a person was shopping somewhere, and by the time they got home that card had already been used for well over $1,000,” Laird said. “Unfortunately, a lot of times, by the nature of police work, we are reactive to situations. In this instance it was a way we were trying to be proactive and try to stop some of this from happening.”

Laird said police were thorough and cautious about situations in which they arrested people. One case that did not result in an arrest involved a woman who took the purse to her house, he said. Police followed her to her home, where they stopped to question her. The woman told them she was taking it home and planned to try to track down the person whose name was in the purse.

Police looked inside the purse, and the money was still there. “It hadn’t moved,” Laird said. “She hadn’t touched it.”

Police were not out to charge people who thought they were doing the right thing, Laird said.

“Each person who was charged with this took it a substantial step further and took money out of purse,” he said.

The arrests

Laird explained what he said police believe happened in the five cases where people were charged with theft.

Heather M. Warwick, 28, of Metropolis, Ill. Police allege that Warwick carried the purse into a Wal-Mart bathroom, where she took out the money and gift card and placed them in her bra. She then handed the purse to a store employee and said she had found it in the bathroom, Laird said.

Joe N. Sanders, 55, of Grantsburg, Ill. Police allege Sanders took the money out of the purse, left the purse behind in the parking lot and got in his truck to leave.

Rebecca V. Joslyn, 27, and William E. Widmer Jr., 33, both of Benton. Police allege they put the purse into their vehicle, covered it with a jacket and went into the store. When they came out, they went through the purse. Police caught up to them at a gas station where they tried to spend the money inside on a lottery ticket, Laird said.

Jane A. Ely, 26, of Paducah. Police allege Ely took money out of the purse in the parking lot, walked inside the store and only turned in the purse.
Attorney Jeremy Ian Smith represents Ely, and he contests the police allegation against her is false. He said he plans to contend in court that police entrapped Ely.

Smith said Ely told him she did not see an owner’s name anywhere inside the purse. She said she took the money out of the purse, but when she realized she still had it, she turned to go back to a customer service desk where she had turned in the purse. Before she could return with the money, police arrested her, Smith said.

Ely’s arraignment is set for 9 a.m., Tuesday. Widmer’s is set for the same time. An online court docket database had not yet listed the other cases.

What the law says

Kentucky Revised Statute 505.010 defines entrapment. It says a person is not guilty of a crime if “he was induced or encouraged to engage in that conduct by a public servant or by a person acting in cooperation with a public servant seeking to obtain evidence against him for the purpose of criminal prosecution.”

The person must not have been disposed to engage in the crime, according to the statute. It continues, however, that the law does not consider it entrapment if a public servant merely affords the defendant an opportunity to commit an offense.

Tom Glover, a retired criminal defense attorney who teaches constitutional law at Murray State University, explained the difference by using an example.

If an undercover police officer went to a house where he suspected drugs were sold and asked to buy drugs, but was refused, then returned over and over until someone inside gave him drugs just to make him go away, that would be entrapment, Glover said.

“The idea of entrapment is we have enough crime in the world without the police going out and creating crime,” Glover said.

Glover said he knew nothing about the case other than what a reporter told him. Under the circumstances as explained, he said he did not believe the case represented entrapment because it only created an opportunity for someone to steal an unattended purse.

“If the police had someone out there and said, ‘There’s a purse. Why don’t you go steal it?’ That would probably be entrapment,” Glover said. “But it would still be up to a jury.”

An entrapment defense places the burden of proof of entrapment on a defense attorney, Glover said. The attorney must prove entrapment to the extent a judge orders a jury to consider the possibility as part of jury instructions.

Smith, Ely’s attorney, disagrees with Glover.

“I just don’t know if the public likes the idea of police just throwing purses out there just to try to get people to come take them,” he said.

He said the case is not just affording people an opportunity to steal.

“It’s still enticing people to commit low-level theft,” he said.

Mark Bryant, a defense attorney and former prosecutor, has a different perspective.

“The real issue in these kinds of cases is what’s the person’s intention when they get that purse?” he said.

Bryant said he knew little about the cases, but saw no evidence of entrapment. The key is police had to give people time to do what is right, not just move in the minute someone picked up the purse, he said.

Operations like the police department’s can, however, make people hesitant when they do come across a purse or wallet that apparently has been misplaced, Bryant said.

“Nice people have a real tendency to get in trouble over this kind of stuff,” he said.

BadDuck

08-31-2009, 08:38 AM

Sounds like to me the paducah police have too much time on their hands.

westkybanded

08-31-2009, 08:53 AM

Entrapment. I'll be surprised if any of these lead to a conviction.

Not a smart move on the part of the Paducah PD.

smashdn

08-31-2009, 09:01 AM

Finders keepers coppers.

Manzanita

08-31-2009, 09:03 AM

Earlier this year I had just left Orscheln's (farm store) in Murray, loaded a couple bags of feed in the truck, and saw a purse sitting a few feet away in a cart. I rolled the cart and the purse back to the store and gave the purse to the cashier.

Exact same situation as the set up in Paducah. Looking back, it's kind of amusing to think that could possibly have been a sting and I was being watched. Probably wasn't (and I imagine someone was happy to get their purse back) but if it was I guess I disappointed someone.

ptbrauch

08-31-2009, 10:45 AM

Depending on what kind of a hurry I was in at the time, I'd probably take the purse with me and try to call or locate the owner once I got home.

A few years ago, there was a church in the area that left purses laying around at bus stops and phone booths, etc. There was no money in there but an invitation to come to some special service. I don't know how effective it was, but I thought it was a good idea.

wprebeck

08-31-2009, 11:35 AM

Entrapment. I'll be surprised if any of these lead to a conviction.

Not a smart move on the part of the Paducah PD.

Did you learn that from Daddy?

Because it's not. The definition of entrapment is coercing someone to do something they would not ordinarily do, and then arresting them for it.

Example - I stick a gun in your face and tell you to buy crack cocaine from me. You buy the crack, and I then arrested you for possession of a controlled substance. That's entrapment. Merely providing the opportunity for someone to commit a crime is NOT entrapment. You might want to understand the definitions of legal terms before you throw them around, and make such bold statements. Just ask Daddy...he's a lawyer, right?

Of course, apparently the possession of a law degree and KY bar card doesn't mean you understand legal terms, either. I recently had to explain the above to my sister, who has both of the aforementioned items. Seems she bought the urban myth that it's illegal for police to run radar at night without their parking lights on. Idiots are everywhere, even among those possessing a JD.

Now that the legal lecture is over....surely there are better things PPD could be doing. Perhaps working a detail to help prevent thefts from cars, or even the theft of cars themselves. Hooking somone for "Theft of property mislaid....etc" is just a silly detail to have. It's understandable if you catch someone in the act of picking up a wallet that was just dropped by someone and stealing from it (which is the intent of the charge), but actually setting up a detail is ridiculous. That is, unless they were told to do this by their political masters (you know, the chief and mayor).

For the record, here's the charge the suspects were likely arrested for -

514.050 Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
(1) Except as provided in KRS 365.710, a person is guilty of theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake when:
(a) He comes into control of the property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient; and
(b) With intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
(2) Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake is a Class A misdemeanor unless the value of the property is:
(a) Five hundred dollars ($500) or more but less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), in which case it is a Class D felony; or
(b) Ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or more, in which case it is a Class C felony.

Edited to add -

This is no different than doing controlled drug buys or prostitution stings. In both of those, the suspects actually commit the crime. The police merely afforded them the opportunity to do so. In this detail, the police merely left a purse laying around. As you can see by reading the above statute, it IS illegal to take the money from a purse that you find, "finders keepers" aside. The mention of KRS 365.710 refers to unsolicited goods, like a package that was sent to you at your home, that you didn't ask for. That's considered a gift, and isn't relevant to the subject at hand.

What's really funny is, a lot of the people complaining about this would be raising ten kinds of hell if they lost a wallet, and then got it back with all their cash and credit cards missing. I'm sure we'd hear about "damn thieves" and other nice things on the forum. But, when a PD does a sting (which I'm already on record as saying it's silly) to catch those type of people, it's all "entrapment", etc. And you wonder why the police get tired of doing their jobs. Thanks to the wonderful support of people in the community like some of you, they lose the desire to actually do anything but take a report now and then. They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

mwezell

08-31-2009, 11:58 AM

I think it's great and I don't see it as entrapment. Wouldn't it be the same as if a cop left his keys in the ignition of his personal car to see if someone steals it? Oppurtunity is NOT an excuse to be a low life thief! I can't stand a thief. I wish they would do that more often and I hope that it sticks.---Mike Ezell

itallushrt

08-31-2009, 01:31 PM

Sounds like the department trying to easily bolster their stats or arrest numbers. I don't get it really. Crime isn't hard to find so why are these cops trying to generate it?

quackrstackr

08-31-2009, 04:36 PM

Why do you guys care what the Paducah police are doing? :confused:

I had just as soon see them doing that as driving around in circles for an entire shift or sitting in a parking lot watching traffic go by... but I don't live there so what business is it of mine?

Paducah is not exactly a hotbed of crime activity once you get a block or two away from "the set".

yote hunter

08-31-2009, 05:29 PM

i bet these as#hol@s think twice before they take some bodies stuff.its not entrapment.if you take something that doesnt belong to you its called stealing.these purses belonged to the cops.what would be the differance in takeing the purse laying in a shopingcart or taking a bike leaned up aginst the wall?

Auk1124

08-31-2009, 05:35 PM

Because it's not. The definition of entrapment is coercing someone to do something they would not ordinarily do, and then arresting them for it.

Example - I stick a gun in your face and tell you to buy crack cocaine from me. You buy the crack, and I then arrested you for possession of a controlled substance. That's entrapment. Merely providing the opportunity for someone to commit a crime is NOT entrapment. You might want to understand the definitions of legal terms before you throw them around, and make such bold statements. Just ask Daddy...he's a lawyer, right?

Idiots are everywhere, even among those possessing a JD.

Sorry but this idiot with a JD thinks coercion = duress; inducement/encouragement = entrapment. Sticking a gun in someone's face and forcing them to commit a crime is more likely the defense of Duress

limbhanger

08-31-2009, 05:54 PM

Paducah Police need something to do anyway. If you've ever seen anybody pulled over after dark, doesn't matter if they are 18 or 80, there will be 2 cop cars, if not more. Why not save some $$ and put 2 cops in 1 car?

ptbrauch

08-31-2009, 06:28 PM

Seems she bought the urban myth that it's illegal for police to run radar at night without their parking lights on. Idiots are everywhere, even among those possessing a JD.

FWIW, when I attended Boys State about 16 years ago, we were told this by whatever representative the KSP sent. And around the time, I noticed that I never saw a cop on the side of the road without headlights or parking lights on--I had never paid attention until I was told that. However, I've noticed that for the last 10 years or so, that's not been the case and rarely do you see a cop sitting with any lights on. Like I say, FWIW.

Foam Steak

08-31-2009, 06:39 PM

I am going to side with the cops on this one. Do the cops have anything better to do than ticket criminals? I don't think so.

Deer Hunter

08-31-2009, 06:55 PM

LOL ! :D Well to me that seems to be kind of a silly thing for a cop to be doing and the first thing that comes to mind is Barney on the Andy Griffith show. :D I just can not picture cops in real life doing something like that. LOL that is funny !

I remember doing something similiar to that when i was a kid and a very young kid at that. Me and a few of my buddys would get a old purse and tie some fishing twine to it and hide behind the hedge row along the road and when someone would get out and bend over to pick it up. We would yank that old purse into the ditch and run like the devil. LOL

I bet that is where that cop that came up with the idea to do that got it from. :D He must have been one of the ones we pulled that on as a kid. Heck i did not know it as a kid but i wound up teaching todays police force how to nab purse snatchers ! :D

I am all for preventing crime and all but that deal with the purse has to be a Barney original. LOL

yote hunter

08-31-2009, 06:59 PM

for the people who think its entrapment >what do you all think of the robo deer used by the F&W?

mwezell

08-31-2009, 07:07 PM

I am going to side with the cops on this one. Do the cops have anything better to do than ticket criminals? I don't think so.

Personally, I'd rather see them nabbing thieves with the purse trick than to ticket someone for minor traffic stuff. But that's just me.--Mike

BurleyDog

08-31-2009, 07:23 PM

Sounds like they were bored to me. I am sure they have bigger fish to fry...

I'll tell you something though. If I were a cop in Lexington I would sit outside the hospital and ticket everyone who threw a cigarette butt on the ground for littering.. :D

mwezell

08-31-2009, 07:30 PM

drakeshooter

08-31-2009, 09:08 PM

for the people who think its entrapment >what do you all think of the robo deer used by the F&W?

No, I don't think the purse thing is entrapment, just that with all the drug use in McCracken County, you'd think they had better things to do than sit for hours and watch a stinking purse that they planted.

As far as the robo deer, I don't believe the game wardens have better things to do than catch poachers, so I'm all for it. If catching purse snatchers was one of the big problems in Paducah, then I'd be all for it. I'd call it apples to socks.

skin_dog1

08-31-2009, 10:19 PM

Sounds like the department trying to easily bolster their stats or arrest numbers. I don't get it really. Crime isn't hard to find so why are these cops trying to generate it?

Most PD's do not go out of their way to bolster their arrest numbers.I was never briefed that we weren't making enough arrests. I was however told a time or 2 that we were making too many.... That usually came form one of the Sgt.s that was too lazy to do his job. This is one of the silliest details I've ever heard of, but who knows, they may have been having a problem with this sort of crime. Some councilwoman probably had her purse ripped off after leaving it in a buggy at the mall and this was the PD's answer to the problem.

cz.223

09-02-2009, 01:37 PM

so people are not encouraged to take something that is just laying around. entrapment also includes being encouraged Did you learn that from Daddy?

Because it's not. The definition of entrapment is coercing someone to do something they would not ordinarily do, and then arresting them for it.

Example - I stick a gun in your face and tell you to buy crack cocaine from me. You buy the crack, and I then arrested you for possession of a controlled substance. That's entrapment. Merely providing the opportunity for someone to commit a crime is NOT entrapment. You might want to understand the definitions of legal terms before you throw them around, and make such bold statements. Just ask Daddy...he's a lawyer, right?

Of course, apparently the possession of a law degree and KY bar card doesn't mean you understand legal terms, either. I recently had to explain the above to my sister, who has both of the aforementioned items. Seems she bought the urban myth that it's illegal for police to run radar at night without their parking lights on. Idiots are everywhere, even among those possessing a JD.

Now that the legal lecture is over....surely there are better things PPD could be doing. Perhaps working a detail to help prevent thefts from cars, or even the theft of cars themselves. Hooking somone for "Theft of property mislaid....etc" is just a silly detail to have. It's understandable if you catch someone in the act of picking up a wallet that was just dropped by someone and stealing from it (which is the intent of the charge), but actually setting up a detail is ridiculous. That is, unless they were told to do this by their political masters (you know, the chief and mayor).

For the record, here's the charge the suspects were likely arrested for -

514.050 Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake.
(1) Except as provided in KRS 365.710, a person is guilty of theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake when:
(a) He comes into control of the property of another that he knows to have been lost, mislaid, or delivered under a mistake as to the nature or amount of the property or the identity of the recipient; and
(b) With intent to deprive the owner thereof, he fails to take reasonable measures to restore the property to a person entitled to have it.
(2) Theft of property lost, mislaid, or delivered by mistake is a Class A misdemeanor unless the value of the property is:
(a) Five hundred dollars ($500) or more but less than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), in which case it is a Class D felony; or
(b) Ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or more, in which case it is a Class C felony.

Edited to add -

This is no different than doing controlled drug buys or prostitution stings. In both of those, the suspects actually commit the crime. The police merely afforded them the opportunity to do so. In this detail, the police merely left a purse laying around. As you can see by reading the above statute, it IS illegal to take the money from a purse that you find, "finders keepers" aside. The mention of KRS 365.710 refers to unsolicited goods, like a package that was sent to you at your home, that you didn't ask for. That's considered a gift, and isn't relevant to the subject at hand.

What's really funny is, a lot of the people complaining about this would be raising ten kinds of hell if they lost a wallet, and then got it back with all their cash and credit cards missing. I'm sure we'd hear about "damn thieves" and other nice things on the forum. But, when a PD does a sting (which I'm already on record as saying it's silly) to catch those type of people, it's all "entrapment", etc. And you wonder why the police get tired of doing their jobs. Thanks to the wonderful support of people in the community like some of you, they lose the desire to actually do anything but take a report now and then. They're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

RLWEBB

09-02-2009, 02:31 PM

But what if the person who found it was actually going to take it home and call the person who lost it? Is that a crime? Does the law state you have to actually take it into the store?

itallushrt

09-02-2009, 04:00 PM

But what if the person who found it was actually going to take it home and call the person who lost it? Is that a crime? Does the law state you have to actually take it into the store?

Exactly unless the person opened the purse, pulled out the cash or a credit card and then throw the purse back on the ground I don't see any way to prosecute the individuals here.

Cornmonkey

09-02-2009, 05:42 PM

I'd a soon shoot a thief as look at them. But this B.S. is entrapment period. They are watching to much reno 911.

wprebeck

09-03-2009, 12:00 AM

Snareman2

09-03-2009, 09:19 AM

theft is theft, if it's not yours, don't take it.

KYCatBirdHunter

09-03-2009, 01:13 PM

You guys kill me.

There is NO encouragement. They leave a purse lying around, and watch who takes it. RLWEBB - the article, if you read it, included just the situation you described.

No money was taken from the purse, and the woman who picked it up wasn't charged.

This detail consisted of a purse being placed in a public area, with money in it. The ONLY people who were charged with a crime were those who took the money FROM the purse. That's illegal, and I've already posted the statute relevant to the story. For the police haters, which (as always) seem to number in the majority -

If this was YOUR wallet (or your wife's purse) that you left in a shopping cart at the local Kroger/Family Dollar/Wal Mart, and someone stole your money out if it, what would be your response?

If you consider that theft, then you should feel the same about this detail that PPD performed. BECAUSE IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING!!!! I know it's hard to understand, since the big bag meanies in the police department set people up to do it, instead of the thieves stealing money from unsuspecting people, but it's the same damn thing.

Wow, you seem like a real friendly fella. Let me throw a penny in here. If it was MY wallet or purse, I would kick myself for losing it and consider myself lucky if someone was nice enough to give it back. To me, that money's gone. I would return it if I found it, but I also understand that you can't require people to do that. Finder's keepers, as they say.

And you are correct. Most of the general population HATES the police. Do you know why? Because the police hate the general population. They have been on a steady trend of militarization and enmity towards the very people they are supposed to protect and serve for decades. When I see someone walking around with automatic weapons and body armor, knowing full well that they would be more than happy to point that weapon at me or taze me given the first opportunity (God forbid I have some piece of plant material they deem objectionable), then yes I will tend to dislike that person, and their entire evidence inventing force.

Don't be surprised that everyone defaults to whatever position is counter to the police.

kywallace69

09-03-2009, 01:25 PM

There just trying to stimulate the local economy. :rolleyes:

AteUp

09-03-2009, 01:28 PM

I have no problem with the military, the police, or any other weapon wielding protector of the citizens. None of my family has a problem nor do any of my friends. I respect the job they do and generally try not to give them a reason to administer a beatdown on my skull. I think maybe some people don't like LEO's, because they have a problem with authority. No problem here. Saint Xavier HS does a good job of beating that out of everyone in their freshman year.:eek:

trust me

09-03-2009, 01:48 PM

. Most of the general population HATES the police. Do you know why? Because the police hate the general population. They .

Wow. I'm glad my 'general population' is far removed from yours. I don't see hate for the police from anyone other than the usual dopers and drunks around here that get picked up regularly. Everyone else has a 'live and let live' relationship with LE.

yote hunter

09-03-2009, 05:06 PM

Wow, you seem like a real friendly fella. Let me throw a penny in here. If it was MY wallet or purse, I would kick myself for losing it and consider myself lucky if someone was nice enough to give it back. To me, that money's gone. I would return it if I found it, but I also understand that you can't require people to do that. Finder's keepers, as they say.

And you are correct. Most of the general population HATES the police. Do you know why? Because the police hate the general population. They have been on a steady trend of militarization and enmity towards the very people they are supposed to protect and serve for decades. When I see someone walking around with automatic weapons and body armor, knowing full well that they would be more than happy to point that weapon at me or taze me given the first opportunity (God forbid I have some piece of plant material they deem objectionable), then yes I will tend to dislike that person, and their entire evidence inventing force.

Don't be surprised that everyone defaults to whatever position is counter to the police.
tell the truth your really not from this planet are you?

AteUp

09-03-2009, 05:19 PM

also understand that you can't require people to do that. Finder's keepers, as they say.

It is against the law to find something and not make a reasonable effort to return said item to it's rightful owner.

wprebeck

09-04-2009, 02:49 AM

At least some people 'get it' in here.

While I would be pissed at myself for losing my wallet, and wouldn't reasonably expect that I'd get it back....that doesn't mean it's legal for someone to simply steal the money/credit cards out of it.

By the way, KyCatBirdHunter, I'd like to clear up some incorrect assumptions you seem to have with law enforcement -

The only people working in LE that I know of with automatic weapons are SWAT. You'll likely not see them pointing those guns at you (or anyone you know) unless you're involved in a major 'uh-oh'. AR-15's are more common, but not automatic. I'm sure you're aware of the difference between a semi-automatic weapon like the AR-15 and a select fire weapon such as the M4/M16 or the MP5. If not, I'll start a thread in 'Modern Firearms' and help educate you.

Next point - I'm guessing you're a willing participant with the smoking/growing/using of marijuana, based on your post about 'plant material'. Perhaps you've smoked a bit too much, as it seems you're unfamilar with the legislative process in this country. Police are the enforcement arm of the legislative/executive branch. Law enforcement doesn't make the laws, we enforce them. Yes, there are certain laws that we support and others we're against. That's our right as citizens of this wonderful country, and makes us no different than anyone who lobbies for their own particular bit of legislation they support. So, to make it simple for you, I'll sum it up in one sentence -

Don't like the drug laws, get your legislator to change them. It's not up to the police to create laws, although we do have some discretion in enforcing them. Most officers I know won't even glance at you for having a personal amount of weed. Trafficking is a different story, though. But, if you're unhappy with that particular law, get hooked up with Gatewood Galbreath and get it changed. Of course, if the community wanted it changed, I guess they'd be a bit more vocal in their support....since they're not, I would assume it's safe to say that the general public doesn't much care for the legalization of drugs. So, instead of trying to put the blame for marijuana being illegal on the police, you should talk to your cohorts in the community and your legislators.

Body armor....yeah, it's sooooo horrible seeing someone wear a completely defensive device that can do nothing to harm you. Not to mention it's saved countless lives of the officers who've been shot at, stabbed, or otherwise taken advantage of the vest's protective design. I know an officer who was saved by his vest when he was in a very bad car wreck. But, I'd guess you'd rather he be dead than wear something as offensive as a vest that you can't even see, except for the outline of it underneath the shirt of an officer.

Lastly - I've been doing this work for nearly ten years. In that time, I've not pointed my gun at anyone. Granted, I don't work the street, unless you count the 10-15 hours per week I work off duty jobs. But, the fact remains that I've never pointed my gun at anyone. The wife IS a street officer, and has come close to shooting someone, but that someone had a knife and was threatening innocent people. I guess she's just a big meanie picking on people, right? And tasers....man, I wish I had one. They beat the hell out of using OC, and facts show that the use of Tasers actually reduces both SUSPECT and OFFICER injuries. Of course, you'd rather the officer go with a beatdown to subdue a suspect that can leave permanent and sometimes crippling injuries to the suspect and the officer. That is, instead of a five second ride on the Taser, after which the pain is gone. By the way, thousands of officers around the country have taken the ride, many more than once. Not one of them has died, or suffered any type of permanent injury from their use. Go figure....the only ones who DO die from their use have something in common - illegal drug usage. Only, not a plant....more like a refined product that can be a white powder or yellow white rock.

So, enjoy your weed and I hope no one points their (non)automatic weapon at you. Since I doubt Shelbyville PD or SCSO even has automatic weapons....I could ask, since I kinda know a guy out there. But, what's the point....you'll still have your idiotic opinion and try to justify it. Usually, there's a reason for the unexplained hatred for police and it usually falls into one of the below categories -

You tried, but couldn't get hired....generally due to failing the pysch tests.

You got a speeding ticket.

A cop ran off with your old lady.

Which one are you?

KYCatBirdHunter

09-04-2009, 01:24 PM

You tried, but couldn't get hired....generally due to failing the pysch tests.

You got a speeding ticket.

A cop ran off with your old lady.

Which one are you?

Neither. I hate cops because I've met too many of them. I understand they serve a valuable role, and if they stuck to that it'd be okay. I also understand that there are very good cops. I've met some. Maybe you're one (although I suspect from your unwillingness to see the trend of militarization and abuse of power as a problem that you're not).

I'm very familiar with the legislative process in this country and I'm very familiar with the role that police are supposed to play. Part of their role is that they're supposed to be a last line of defense against abuses of the state. Problem is this particular abuse came in the guise of the "War on Drugs" which was a boom for business for police departments. This is a free chance to create more criminals, and more jobs. The legislators and police departments since this "War" began have created this monster, and now they want to say that they can be the solution. You can only stay on top of your "it's the law and that's the way it is" high horse for so long before eventually people start saying, "then screw the law." I'm sure you understand the phenomena that one bad law actively enforced creates contempt for the entire body of laws.

corndogggy

09-04-2009, 03:42 PM

yote hunter

09-04-2009, 04:47 PM

Zeb

09-04-2009, 05:10 PM

What this "sting" did is make all the responsible good non-criminal people who read the news not want to bother with picking up and turning in a REAL lost purse they find in a parking lot... giving the real criminals a better chance of finding it. :rolleyes:
I have to admit that's what I thought about. A couple of years ago while pulling away after getting gas, I noticed a wallet on the pump. I figured the owner had a better shot at getting the contents back from me than the quick stop workers. I found a number in the wallet and met the kid half way. I was happy to help out- He was getting ready for a prom and had his tickets and all of his money in it. Hate to think that I could have gotten arrested for it. I'm doubting that anyone would have believed that I was going to deliver it to the owner...

corndogggy

09-04-2009, 05:11 PM

mgpatty

09-04-2009, 05:16 PM

.... I hate cops because I've met too many of them. .....

From the tone of the hate filled rhetoric that you have spewed, one could only conclude that you met those LEOs while being on the wrong side of the law. :rolleyes:

grouser68

09-04-2009, 05:21 PM

it seems to me that there are several liberals on this site that have no problem with sticky fingers. theirs or other peoples.find a wallet unattended its finders keepers find a deer stand unattended its finders keepers.finders keepers is perfectly ok if you are a 9 year old but if you are much older its just stealing.Not a liberal, definately a Democrat, and a proud one! I was ginseng hunting and found a wallet with $90. ,now I was looking for money in the form of a root at the time.I called the boys Mother and told her I would leave it at the police station and that it had $90. in it. I went to the station and told the police the Mother was called and knows there is $90. in it, and that it had better be in there when she came to pick it up.:D That was before the days of the cell phone so I had to spend a quarter to get that boy's wallet back!:D Who knows maybe one day it will come back to me, or maybe it already has.

mgpatty

09-04-2009, 05:24 PM

My wife left a purse at a pizza place in Orlando once. We got the purse back, but all the cash had been taken out. So, yeah, it sucks. However, I still don't like the idea of police tempting people. Whether it's legally entrapment or not, they are obviously trying to temp people who may not have normally committed a crime, at Wal-Mart of all places... somewhere where people hurting for cash would frequent.

I've got the same feelings about police posing as hookers. I'm sure they know how to dance around the entrapment issue, but they're still putting out the bait in the form of a nice looking woman who is skimpily dressed and acting the part.

How is it 'tempting' anyone? If it isn't yours, it doesn't belong to you. It's that simple. They were only arresting those people who, after seeing the ID in the purse, still decided to steal the money. It's not any different than someone taking a deerstand from my property, a motorcycle from my front yard, or a CD player from my truck. I guess it comes down to a question of morals. A thief is a thief, regardless of how they come about their stolen merchandise. (I'm not saying you are immoral or a thief, so please don't take it that way;))
This wouldn't discourage me from returning a lost purse or wallet in the least. Why? Because I don't intend to keep the valuable contents and throw the rest into the trash.

wprebeck

09-04-2009, 09:58 PM