Educating Toms by calling to them??

[kyscrapejuice]

Do we give them too much credit?? I don't believe they are that smart, just paranoid as H3!! How do you educate a gobbler to your calling, IF?

1) He didn't come in to your calling and get shot at
2) You didn't spook him when he came into your setup from which you are calling (see you, etc...) or bump him right after doing a calling sequence.
3) You walk up under him or get with in site of him on the roost, then proceed to go through your arsenal of calls.

As long as you sound like a turkey while moving through the woods, if he hears you and don't come in. Then how does he know your not a turkey? Regardless of how often you do this.

I believe that people think that birds that are not coming in to a call, tends to label them as pressured birds or call shy. Rather than the fact that he may just not want to come to that location, or he's just waiting for the hen to come to him, would rather go to another location for whatever reason, or just not in the mood. But we tend to fabricate an EXCUSE trying to make sense of it.

what do you think.

[Jerod]

the 5 i had this morning strutted for over an hour 75 yrds out. Im 99% positive it was my location"and the blowing decoys"haha. They do not like leaving there comfort zone at times

[notimlmit]

Your right about if he's not in the mood or the location isn't right he isn't coming in and the reason he gobbles is to attract hens to him not him go to them unless there is a high population of male birds and competition is high--the reason alot of birds lock up short is they know exactly where that call came from and will wait on ''the hen'' to make up the difference--now on the same note there are some I've heard that call constantly hardly ever letting up and all the turkey hunting I've done I've never seen or heard a hen go on for minutes up on end, yes they will cut and cluck for what seems like 3-4 minutes when excited but not on and on--and the call shy birds are more than not birds that have busted the hunter whether they knew it or not

[johnboy]

I believe that people think that birds that are not coming in to a call, tends to label them as pressured birds or call shy. Rather than the fact that he may just not want to come to that location, or he's just waiting for the hen to come to him, would rather go to another location for whatever reason, or just not in the mood. But we tend to fabricate and EXCUSE trying to make sense of it.

what do you think.

You are correct. a turkeys brain is not that big and they dont live forever, they are being killed by some predator (human or other wise) all the time. so it's not like they are "passing on" this info in their genes

[stratos907]

I think they are 95% instinct, and 5% intelligence. Older birds are by nature ornery. I do think we give them a little too much credit.

[Double T]

There is a hunter that I have had the opportunity to watch some this year that hunts on a neighbor's property.
He calls incessantly. He switches between an owl hoot, a crow call, and a hen call. I watched him come in the other day and set out his decoys and walk over to his blind and then hit the crow call several times. A gobbler walked by at the other end of the field and looked his way and then continued on out of the field. I have seen him run off several birds and last year I called in two jakes while hunting about 400 yards from him.
I have thought about telling him about the number of birds that he is running off and how he is educating them with his calling, but I have decided that the more birds that he runs off...well, it just leaves more birds around for me to hunt.

But I believe that they have become pretty educated to owl calls, crow calls, and hen calls... and to decoys.

[skin_dog1]

I get to hunt unpressured birds every year and I'm hear to tell you they can all be hard as heck to kill. Even a stupid 2 y/o. They can all also be easy to kill, even a wise 4 y/o. I think it depends more on the birds mood and the phase of the breeding cycle than anything. It's like the old football saying "Any given sunday" well, any bird could die any day if things work just right and he's in just the right mood. I've seen birds that gobbled on the roost for an hour one day to gather his harem turn around the next day and pitch down at barely daylight and trip over him self to run 100 yards and get killed. You just never know!

Last year we bumped a bird out of his roost tree on one side of the farm and set up there anyway cause a bird not to far away was gobblin. A bird even farther away respnded and closed the distance by 200 yards before being drug off by a hen. Next mornin we set up on that one and the one we bumped the morning before came running to the call and commit suicide while the bird we set up on would have nothing to do with it. Next morning he come slowly to 10 yards but my hunter couldn't (or wouldn't) turn and kill him. Three different birds all acting different to the basic same set up, same callin, same calls in three different days. 2 lived, 1 didn't.

[johnboy]

I think we use "educate" to broadly.
there is a difference between public land and private land birds.
and between guys who live on there property and hunt it heavy, and guys who only visit on the weekends.
if they hear me or see me over the weekend, i dont think they will remember or be educated after a week or month or certainly not the next year if they make it.

On PL i think hunting pressure and that same wanna be hen yelp that every hunter in the county uses, will probably affect the birds for sure. and the pressure can cause them to move, because it's constant.

but on my place, when we only hunt the birds on the weekends, i don't think it matters in the least.
we hunt the same spots year after year and sooner or later always run into birds in those spots and i've used the same primos glass call and decoys for 5 years in a row.
so i would say they are not educated to my calls, decoys or pressure.

[turk2di]

I have a saying" A first time turkey hunter on the right bird will humble a veteran turkey hunter on the wrong bird". By that, i mean it is simply the luck of the draw..so to speak. The bird either wants to die that day, or he doesnt. However, i think you can call with a sameness from the same spot too much & get birds wary of a particular spot!! But even then, his mood could change & ........................

[maxcam]

I have a saying too........ With enough patience any bird is killable!

You might not get him today or tomorrow but if you keep mixing it up and paying attention to what he is doing......Somewhere along the way you will put yourself between him and where he wants to be and then its game on!

I agree with Turk...... I dont think you can educate a bird to your call but I do think they can associate a location a call and seeing you mover and say, "hey that dude is over there screwing around again......"

I also give birds a bit more credit than most....... Maybe thats because I have a friend that owns some kinda tropical bird that can actually talk and give you a response to your questions...... Now I realize that the bird cannot perform rocket science.....But I believe they can recognize sounds!

[buckfever]

I agree with the others that "educate" is probably a bit of an exaggeration for most turkeys. I've hunted turkeys for about 30 years - maybe not as consistently or zealously as some other folks on here - but have had plenty of time to formulate some conclusions:

As a general proposition, I don't think calling to birds "educates" them. I simply don't believe they have the intelligence to form cognizable thoughts along those lines. Just because they hang up today doesn't mean they will tomorrow. However, I believe that "some" turkeys can develop habits over time as a result of pressure, constant calling and surrounding circumstances that has the same effect as being "educated".

For instance, there's been a lot of people complaining about toms being henned up. In these areas, I think it's fair to assume that the turkeys act like, well, turkeys. The tom gobbles either from the roost or the ground, and the hens go to him. He stops gobbling when he has hens because he instinctively understands that he doesn't need to gobble any more and draw unwanted dangerous attention to himself.

I think that some toms (and I emphasis "some") who have grown accustomed to having the hens safely come to him develop an instinctive pattern of making himself visible and then waiting on the hen (i.e. hanging up). I think this is probably more likely to happen if the tom is used to having the hens come to him, and he has had multiple past negative encounters with vocal, hidden hens (i.e. hunters). In those instances, the gobblers are more likely to stay planted where they are.

The same holds true for high pressure spots. If turkeys are subjected to heavy and/or constant human intrusion in a particular area, they simply start to avoid the area and conduct their business elsewhere. I think that when turkeys don't respond to calls in that area, it has more to do with the fact that there simply aren't any turkeys using that area anymore than it has to do with the turkeys becoming "educated" to the calls.

In Kentucky, the primary breeding is winding down. Any diminished gobbling activity is, IMO, due primarily to 2 factors. First, it's due to the fact that some of the toms in the area have been killed and thus, there are simply fewer birds to gobble. Second and more importantly, as breeding starts to naturally decline so do the associated activities such as gobbling.

I've also heard people say that they believe that turkeys won't gobble because there are too many coyotes in their area. I don't believe that's true. Yotes have been present in every place I've hunted (in sizable populations), and it's never adversely affected the gobbling. While a few toms may have instinctively developed that pattern of sparse gobbling, I think that the absence of gobbling is more likely attributable to other factors - i.e. lots of hens, weather, etc.

[deadaim]

I agree with the others that "educate" is probably a bit of an exaggeration for most turkeys. I've hunted turkeys for about 30 years - maybe not as consistently or zealously as some other folks on here - but have had plenty of time to formulate some conclusions:

As a general proposition, I don't think calling to birds "educates" them. I simply don't believe they have the intelligence to form cognizable thoughts along those lines. Just because they hang up today doesn't mean they will tomorrow. However, I believe that "some" turkeys can develop habits over time as a result of pressure, constant calling and surrounding circumstances that has the same effect as being "educated".

For instance, there's been a lot of people complaining about toms being henned up. In these areas, I think it's fair to assume that the turkeys act like, well, turkeys. The tom gobbles either from the roost or the ground, and the hens go to him. He stops gobbling when he has hens because he instinctively understands that he doesn't need to gobble any more and draw unwanted dangerous attention to himself.

I think that some toms (and I emphasis "some") who have grown accustomed to having the hens safely come to him develop an instinctive pattern of making himself visible and then waiting on the hen (i.e. hanging up). I think this is probably more likely to happen if the tom is used to having the hens come to him, and he has had multiple past negative encounters with vocal, hidden hens (i.e. hunters). In those instances, the gobblers are more likely to stay planted where they are.

The same holds true for high pressure spots. If turkeys are subjected to heavy and/or constant human intrusion in a particular area, they simply start to avoid the area and conduct their business elsewhere. I think that when turkeys don't respond to calls in that area, it has more to do with the fact that there simply aren't any turkeys using that area anymore than it has to do with the turkeys becoming "educated" to the calls.

In Kentucky, the primary breeding is winding down. Any diminished gobbling activity is, IMO, due primarily to 2 factors. First, it's due to the fact that some of the toms in the area have been killed and thus, there are simply fewer birds to gobble. Second and more importantly, as breeding starts to naturally decline so do the associated activities such as gobbling.

I've also heard people say that they believe that turkeys won't gobble because there are too many coyotes in their area. I don't believe that's true. Yotes have been present in every place I've hunted (in sizable populations), and it's never adversely affected the gobbling. While a few toms may have instinctively developed that pattern of sparse gobbling, I think that the absence of gobbling is more likely attributable to other factors - i.e. lots of hens, weather, etc.

I agree with all that except it seems to me they gobble more late in the season than early.....at least later on in the morning...

[kyscrapejuice]

I agree with the others that "educate" is probably a bit of an exaggeration for most turkeys. I've hunted turkeys for about 30 years - maybe not as consistently or zealously as some other folks on here - but have had plenty of time to formulate some conclusions:

As a general proposition, I don't think calling to birds "educates" them. I simply don't believe they have the intelligence to form cognizable thoughts along those lines. Just because they hang up today doesn't mean they will tomorrow. However, I believe that "some" turkeys can develop habits over time as a result of pressure, constant calling and surrounding circumstances that has the same effect as being "educated".

For instance, there's been a lot of people complaining about toms being henned up. In these areas, I think it's fair to assume that the turkeys act like, well, turkeys. The tom gobbles either from the roost or the ground, and the hens go to him. He stops gobbling when he has hens because he instinctively understands that he doesn't need to gobble any more and draw unwanted dangerous attention to himself.

I think that some toms (and I emphasis "some") who have grown accustomed to having the hens safely come to him develop an instinctive pattern of making himself visible and then waiting on the hen (i.e. hanging up). I think this is probably more likely to happen if the tom is used to having the hens come to him, and he has had multiple past negative encounters with vocal, hidden hens (i.e. hunters). In those instances, the gobblers are more likely to stay planted where they are.

The same holds true for high pressure spots. If turkeys are subjected to heavy and/or constant human intrusion in a particular area, they simply start to avoid the area and conduct their business elsewhere. I think that when turkeys don't respond to calls in that area, it has more to do with the fact that there simply aren't any turkeys using that area anymore than it has to do with the turkeys becoming "educated" to the calls.

In Kentucky, the primary breeding is winding down. Any diminished gobbling activity is, IMO, due primarily to 2 factors. First, it's due to the fact that some of the toms in the area have been killed and thus, there are simply fewer birds to gobble. Second and more importantly, as breeding starts to naturally decline so do the associated activities such as gobbling.

I've also heard people say that they believe that turkeys won't gobble because there are too many coyotes in their area. I don't believe that's true. Yotes have been present in every place I've hunted (in sizable populations), and it's never adversely affected the gobbling. While a few toms may have instinctively developed that pattern of sparse gobbling, I think that the absence of gobbling is more likely attributable to other factors - i.e. lots of hens, weather, etc.

I too would agree with basically everything you said. Except, later in the season, I think the gobbling will increase, especially with some birds that seem to be desperately gobbling with reckless abandonment for hours on in. Also the rate at which they close the distance to a setup can be just "crazy". I called 4 birds about 250 yards, off the roost a few seasons back, and it was still so dark I had a hard time seeing them in the scope when they got within range. It had to be too dark to see the ground when they flew out, but I guess they were racing each other to get there. Those birds are what I like to call "sticking their head in the gun barrel", or "dead on the roost". Those are the kind you hate to shoot'em once they come in, you just hate to end it.

[Ron612]

I see this same Gobbler, walk near my setup, for the last 6 hunts. I call with every thing Bass Pro Shop sell's. He, just walk's across this field, like he is either deaf or he's a Fag bird :eek:. I try, Not calling, and stay's just out of gun range. Wont even look my way. What gives here ??

[Manzanita]

I like to educate them by reading to them. They do have very short attention spans, though, so it's frustrating.