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CanisMajor
04-18-2009, 08:26 PM
My liberal brother-in-law in Pennsylvania recently inquired of me via email the reason I desire to carry a concealed deadly weapon. He found out about this because I revealed in our weekly family email letter that I had spent an entire Saturday in the classroom and on the range in order to fulfill the licensing requirements for CCDW in Kentucky. So, I wrote this response to him (and to my equally liberal sister). It is admittedly a condensed explanation of the issue. As it is, I doubt that they will read beyond the first paragraph or two. I present it here for y'all to use for a similar purpose, should you so desire. Enjoy.

Why do I feel the need to carry a concealed deadly weapon (a.k.a. "firearm")?

Principle and Undeniable Fact #1:
There is a small percentage of evil people who are predatory in nature and seek to injure and kill other people, i.e. we live in a fallen and dangerous world.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #2:
God does not want us to be victims of mayhem and violence. The 6th Commandment tells us not to murder, it does not tell us we cannot kill in self-defense or in defense of another.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #3:
Evil-doers will always have access to the tools of their trade, i.e. deadly weapons. Law-breakers by their very title and their very nature don't follow laws. Therefore there is no law that will keep these people from getting deadly weapons, including firearms, and there is no law that will prevent them from using these weapons on innocent citizens.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #4:
The average individual cannot defend themselves with bare hands against a knife or a firearm attack and expect a reasonable chance of a positive outcome.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #5:
It is not the police department's job to protect citizens from evil-doers 24/7. Call your local police department and request a personal bodyguard 24/7. Let me know what they say. The job of the police is to catch evil-doers after the fact. Occasionally they do prevent assaults on citizens before they happen, but that is not their primary job.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #6:
The founders of our Republic wisely spelled out the right of self-protection (using weapons) in the Bill of Rights, with the inclusion of the Second Amendment*.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #7.
In a life or death confrontation, a firearm is a proven deterrent to evildoers. In the hands of a trained and practiced person, a firearm gives the law-abiding citizen an excellent fighting chance for survival against predatory evil-doers.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #8:
I refuse to let myself and my loved ones become victims of these evil predators. It is my responsibility to myself, my family, and my community to carry a deadly weapon (a.k.a. "firearm") for protection. In short, by carrying a concealed firearm, I am being a responsible citizen, rather than a victim-in-waiting.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #9:
While Kentucky is an open-carry state, carrying a firearm in plain view would give an advantage to the bad guys. They would know who to come after first if there were multiple prey available to them. Or, if an individual is the sole prey, they would use different tactics if they knew for sure a person was armed, and his too would give the bad guy(s) an advantage.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #10:
While Kentucky is an open-carry state, there are enough ignorant or hoplophobic people around that someone is bound to call 911 when they see a plain-clothes person openly carrying a firearm in a public place. While open carry is legal, a person could be charged with any number of things, such as inciting a panic, disorderly conduct, and menacing, just to name a few. Take that same person and that same firearm and hide it, and the ignorant and hoplophobic will be as calm as the sheep that they are.

*Contrary to popular belief, the Second Amendment does not "give" us the right to keep and bear arms. If it did, that would mean that this right comes from the government, and therefore the government could take this right away. The Second Amendment spells out the fact that we have this right, and that it cannot be taken away. The right to keep and bear arms is a God-given (or "natural") right. Since it is given by God, and not by men (government), it can never be taken away by men. Also, the Second Amendment, known to the founders as "Liberty's Teeth", was primarily designed to instill a healthy sense of fear in elected government officials, who are supposed to be servants of "We the people", and accountable to "We the people". By "Liberty's Teeth", they meant that the Second Amendment protects and ensures ALL of our other rights. The Second Amendment protects and ensures our freedom and liberty.

Now, I have a few questions for you:
Why do you feel the need to speak freely without fear of reprisal by the government? Why do you feel the need to be safe in your home without fear of warrantless searches and seizures by the government? Why do you feel the need to worship (or not worship) as you chose? Shall I go on? I will tell you why you feel all these needs and more. You desire these things because you, like all people everywhere and in every age, inherently yearn for freedom and liberty. And that is a good thing.

“Carrying a gun is a social responsibility...A citizen who shirks his duty to contribute to the security of his community is little better than the criminal who threatens it...”
--Robert Boatman

“… one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence.”
--- C. A. Beard

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”
--- Thomas Jefferson

“To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
--- Richard Henry Lee writing in letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
--- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764

“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
--- Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution

“The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
--- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

“That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms...”
--- Samuel Adams

“No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
--- Thomas Jefferson, proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334

“Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense...”
--- John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions (1788)

“. . . a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen . . .
--- D.C Appellate Court, Warren v. District of Columbia

“There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.”
--- 7th Circuit Court, Bowers v. DeVito (1982)

StaleyEMT
04-18-2009, 10:02 PM
Very good.:cool:

killinmammals
04-18-2009, 11:22 PM
My usual response to that question in class is "Why do you feel the need to speak out in public about your opinions" To which they really don't know how to reply...then I tell them why in a short few sentences

Docknboatlift
04-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Three words.

Because I can.

mwezell
04-19-2009, 09:11 AM
Good post!

The chances that you will ever NEED a gun for personal protection are VERY slim. The consequences of not having one if you do need one, could very well be the life of you or your family! It's not the risk...it's the value of what one might lose if without a reasonable means of meeting a threat with an equal or greater defence. Banks require most mortgaged homes be protected against loss to protect themselves from monetary loss with insurance. So it's o.k. for them to require us to pay to protect them and ouselves from losing property/money but many see it as "radical" to carry a weapon to protect our lives with.:confused: This country has always been more about money than it's people. Just ask the Indians. The Indians saw the land as a resource for life. White men saw it as resource for industry. The indians belonged to the land. Settlers soon owned the land...Money!
Legislators don't care if you can protect yourself, but don't let your insurance run out.:rolleyes::mad: I choose to insure that both my safety and my property are protected...and my premiums are paid---Mike:)

big300mag
04-19-2009, 09:22 AM
Very well said!! Thank you for the permission to use your words. They will come in handy with some of my liberal acquaintances. (It's hard to call them friends when they desire to see my freedoms and liberties stolen from me!!)

etownhunter
04-19-2009, 05:50 PM
Got my notice in the mail yesterday. Gettin my permit monday morning, Like previously stated, Because i can!!!!

biggun
04-19-2009, 11:51 PM
Tell them because you never know when you might need it.

yote_blaster
04-20-2009, 12:19 PM
It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

killinmammals
04-20-2009, 01:16 PM
It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


So true...although we hope we NEVER have to use it

RocketRider
04-20-2009, 09:14 PM
I've had a CC permit since I was 21 or so. Saved my bacon more than once. It is amazing how one's attitude changes when you hold an ace in their face. :eek:

'Nuff said....



RR~

Graybeard
05-02-2009, 08:43 PM
My liberal brother-in-law in Pennsylvania recently inquired of me via email the reason I desire to carry a concealed deadly weapon. He found out about this because I revealed in our weekly family email letter that I had spent an entire Saturday in the classroom and on the range in order to fulfill the licensing requirements for CCDW in Kentucky. So, I wrote this response to him (and to my equally liberal sister). It is admittedly a condensed explanation of the issue. As it is, I doubt that they will read beyond the first paragraph or two. I present it here for y'all to use for a similar purpose, should you so desire. Enjoy.

Why do I feel the need to carry a concealed deadly weapon (a.k.a. "firearm")?

Principle and Undeniable Fact #1:
There is a small percentage of evil people who are predatory in nature and seek to injure and kill other people, i.e. we live in a fallen and dangerous world.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #2:
God does not want us to be victims of mayhem and violence. The 6th Commandment tells us not to murder, it does not tell us we cannot kill in self-defense or in defense of another.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #3:
Evil-doers will always have access to the tools of their trade, i.e. deadly weapons. Law-breakers by their very title and their very nature don't follow laws. Therefore there is no law that will keep these people from getting deadly weapons, including firearms, and there is no law that will prevent them from using these weapons on innocent citizens.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #4:
The average individual cannot defend themselves with bare hands against a knife or a firearm attack and expect a reasonable chance of a positive outcome.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #5:
It is not the police department's job to protect citizens from evil-doers 24/7. Call your local police department and request a personal bodyguard 24/7. Let me know what they say. The job of the police is to catch evil-doers after the fact. Occasionally they do prevent assaults on citizens before they happen, but that is not their primary job.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #6:
The founders of our Republic wisely spelled out the right of self-protection (using weapons) in the Bill of Rights, with the inclusion of the Second Amendment*.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #7.
In a life or death confrontation, a firearm is a proven deterrent to evildoers. In the hands of a trained and practiced person, a firearm gives the law-abiding citizen an excellent fighting chance for survival against predatory evil-doers.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #8:
I refuse to let myself and my loved ones become victims of these evil predators. It is my responsibility to myself, my family, and my community to carry a deadly weapon (a.k.a. "firearm") for protection. In short, by carrying a concealed firearm, I am being a responsible citizen, rather than a victim-in-waiting.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #9:
While Kentucky is an open-carry state, carrying a firearm in plain view would give an advantage to the bad guys. They would know who to come after first if there were multiple prey available to them. Or, if an individual is the sole prey, they would use different tactics if they knew for sure a person was armed, and his too would give the bad guy(s) an advantage.

Principle and Undeniable Fact #10:
While Kentucky is an open-carry state, there are enough ignorant or hoplophobic people around that someone is bound to call 911 when they see a plain-clothes person openly carrying a firearm in a public place. While open carry is legal, a person could be charged with any number of things, such as inciting a panic, disorderly conduct, and menacing, just to name a few. Take that same person and that same firearm and hide it, and the ignorant and hoplophobic will be as calm as the sheep that they are.

*Contrary to popular belief, the Second Amendment does not "give" us the right to keep and bear arms. If it did, that would mean that this right comes from the government, and therefore the government could take this right away. The Second Amendment spells out the fact that we have this right, and that it cannot be taken away. The right to keep and bear arms is a God-given (or "natural") right. Since it is given by God, and not by men (government), it can never be taken away by men. Also, the Second Amendment, known to the founders as "Liberty's Teeth", was primarily designed to instill a healthy sense of fear in elected government officials, who are supposed to be servants of "We the people", and accountable to "We the people". By "Liberty's Teeth", they meant that the Second Amendment protects and ensures ALL of our other rights. The Second Amendment protects and ensures our freedom and liberty.

Now, I have a few questions for you:
Why do you feel the need to speak freely without fear of reprisal by the government? Why do you feel the need to be safe in your home without fear of warrantless searches and seizures by the government? Why do you feel the need to worship (or not worship) as you chose? Shall I go on? I will tell you why you feel all these needs and more. You desire these things because you, like all people everywhere and in every age, inherently yearn for freedom and liberty. And that is a good thing.

“Carrying a gun is a social responsibility...A citizen who shirks his duty to contribute to the security of his community is little better than the criminal who threatens it...”
--Robert Boatman

“… one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence.”
--- C. A. Beard

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”
--- Thomas Jefferson

“To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
--- Richard Henry Lee writing in letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic (1787-1788)

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
--- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764

“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
--- Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution

“The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
--- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

“That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms...”
--- Samuel Adams

“No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
--- Thomas Jefferson, proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334

“Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense...”
--- John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions (1788)

“. . . a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen . . .
--- D.C Appellate Court, Warren v. District of Columbia

“There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen.”
--- 7th Circuit Court, Bowers v. DeVito (1982)

You were doing a great job until you hit #9 & #10. If you want to carry concealed that's fine with me, but I prefer to carry openly. Don't forget that concealed carry is a privilege that government can take away with the stroke of a pen. I don't believe that open carry puts me at a disadvantage at all. I believe that the open carry of a firearm will discourage any unlawful activities and send criminals looking for easier prey. Therefore, I am protected and everyone around me shares that protection.
When was the last time you saw a criminal carrying a gun openly in a holster. The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Kentucky guarantees us the right to openly carry a firearm. No overly frightened citizen or over zealous policeman or politician can take it away. The peaceful carry of a firearm in the open does not constitute disorderly conduct or any other violation of the law no matter how many people may be terrified or offended. I may be offended by what you say, but that doesn't make it a crime for you to say it. I may be frightened by way you worship your chosen god, but you can't be legally arrested for it, not in Ky. These issues were settled long ago by the courts of the Commonwealth. See Holland v Commonwealth. Appeals court Judge Moremen wrote “If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one may question the wearer’s right so to do”.... This has been controlling law in the Commonwealth for more than 50 years. The Constitution is clear, the law is clear and court decisions are clear. If politicians, administrators and law enforcement officers refuse to abide by that they become the criminals and can be held accountable.

rock802
05-02-2009, 09:08 PM
i have a cc permit and i mainly carry at work, most of the time there are only one or two of working together, ad we are in alot of secluded places, with no cell service, this day and time one never knows what he my stumble up on.

mrdux
05-02-2009, 09:24 PM
I would have told my BIL and sister that it's none of your $%^#&*^business!! Tell them to call a cop! They are only minutes away when seconds matter.

I have decided as I get older that I don't have to justify the way I feel, the reasons I feel a certain way or the actions I might take to react to bad situation to ANYONE but GOD as long as my actions are lawful! Anybody else can KMA!!!

Colorado_Hunter
05-02-2009, 11:58 PM
Three words.

Because I can.

In a nutshell, that pretty much covers it in three words.

Colorado_Hunter
05-03-2009, 12:00 AM
Good post!

The chances that you will ever NEED a gun for personal protection are VERY slim.

It is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

weedwalker
05-03-2009, 01:31 PM
A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
Responce time for a cop, 20 minutes.
Responce time for a .357, 1400 feet per second.

rock802
05-03-2009, 05:32 PM
A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
Responce time for a cop, 20 minutes.
Responce time for a .357, 1400 feet per second.

a good one, very true and sometimes even longer in the mountains.

Kentuckyshiner
05-27-2009, 07:25 PM
You were doing a great job until you hit #9 & #10. If you want to carry concealed that's fine with me, but I prefer to carry openly. Don't forget that concealed carry is a privilege that government can take away with the stroke of a pen. I don't believe that open carry puts me at a disadvantage at all. I believe that the open carry of a firearm will discourage any unlawful activities and send criminals looking for easier prey. Therefore, I am protected and everyone around me shares that protection.
When was the last time you saw a criminal carrying a gun openly in a holster. The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Kentucky guarantees us the right to openly carry a firearm. No overly frightened citizen or over zealous policeman or politician can take it away. The peaceful carry of a firearm in the open does not constitute disorderly conduct or any other violation of the law no matter how many people may be terrified or offended. I may be offended by what you say, but that doesn't make it a crime for you to say it. I may be frightened by way you worship your chosen god, but you can't be legally arrested for it, not in Ky. These issues were settled long ago by the courts of the Commonwealth. See Holland v Commonwealth. Appeals court Judge Moremen wrote “If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one may question the wearer’s right so to do”.... This has been controlling law in the Commonwealth for more than 50 years. The Constitution is clear, the law is clear and court decisions are clear. If politicians, administrators and law enforcement officers refuse to abide by that they become the criminals and can be held accountable.


I must agree. Just the presence of a firearm detures most criminals. but any person must always be vigilant. This applies to cc and oc. If you have any Q's check out opencarry.mywowbb.com please excuse my spelling I'm from KY. HA HA

BowOnly
05-27-2009, 11:21 PM
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”
--- Thomas Jefferson


One of the few quotes I'll always remember. T.J. is the man.

CanisMajor
05-28-2009, 07:04 AM
You were doing a great job until you hit #9 & #10. If you want to carry concealed that's fine with me, but I prefer to carry openly. Don't forget that concealed carry is a privilege that government can take away with the stroke of a pen. I don't believe that open carry puts me at a disadvantage at all. I believe that the open carry of a firearm will discourage any unlawful activities and send criminals looking for easier prey. Therefore, I am protected and everyone around me shares that protection.
When was the last time you saw a criminal carrying a gun openly in a holster. The Constitution of the Commonwealth of Kentucky guarantees us the right to openly carry a firearm. No overly frightened citizen or over zealous policeman or politician can take it away. The peaceful carry of a firearm in the open does not constitute disorderly conduct or any other violation of the law no matter how many people may be terrified or offended. I may be offended by what you say, but that doesn't make it a crime for you to say it. I may be frightened by way you worship your chosen god, but you can't be legally arrested for it, not in Ky. These issues were settled long ago by the courts of the Commonwealth. See Holland v Commonwealth. Appeals court Judge Moremen wrote “If the gun is worn outside the jacket or shirt in full view, no one may question the wearer’s right so to do”.... This has been controlling law in the Commonwealth for more than 50 years. The Constitution is clear, the law is clear and court decisions are clear. If politicians, administrators and law enforcement officers refuse to abide by that they become the criminals and can be held accountable.

Graybeard, I just got around to reading Holland vs Commonwealth. You stopped your quote of the case too soon. If you go on, you find ..."The heavy emphasis, we suppose, is upon the undue advantage given to a person who is able suddenly to expose and use a weapon,". In other words, the person with the weapon carried openly is at a disadvantage relative to the person who carries concealed. I prefer not to show my hand until absolutely required to by the situation. Advantage, me. Just a matter of personal preference my friend.

westkybanded
05-28-2009, 08:37 AM
Graybeard, I just got around to reading Holland vs Commonwealth. You stopped your quote of the case too soon. If you go on, you find ..."The heavy emphasis, we suppose, is upon the undue advantage given to a person who is able suddenly to expose and use a weapon,". In other words, the person with the weapon carried openly is at a disadvantage relative to the person who carries concealed. I prefer not to show my hand until absolutely required to by the situation. Advantage, me. Just a matter of personal preference my friend.

Yep. What he said.

Say you're in a situation where a group of people are standing together (maybe in line at a convienience store). One is carrying openly. Bad guy comes in hopped up on PCP and looking for cash to score some more. Sees the cowboy with his 1911 exposed and shoots him in the ear before he does anything else. That's actually kind of logical for the bad guy. Take out the most obvious threat.

corndogggy
05-28-2009, 11:12 AM
I've read alot about this recently and can see both sides, but I have to agree with one argument the most: open carry frightens the public, and that's not good. Plus, you're advertising that you have something to steal and may actually be more likely to be attacked.

How many situations would you be in where you would just be standing around in the open and broad daylight long enough for a would-be criminal to thoroughly scope out and assess the situation then decide that you're not worth messing with? Probably none, usually doesn't work that way at all.

It is much more likely that if you ever were in a situation where a firearm is needed, it would be dark, or you'd be sitting down, or you'd be around others, or in the next room, or it would just happen extremely quickly with no regards to who is openly carrying, or any number of other factors that would prohibit the attacker from even seeing your gun in the first place, making it a moot point.

The people who will see it though, are lots of innocent people, many of which will feel more threatened, not safer, and may complain to their employers who can then post signs that prohibits weapons, or even call the authorities. Yeah the cops can't do anything to you, but is it really worth all that? Keep it concealed and avoid all that and everybody wins.

corndogggy
05-28-2009, 11:14 AM
Say you're in a situation where a group of people are standing together (maybe in line at a convienience store). One is carrying openly. Bad guy comes in hopped up on PCP and looking for cash to score some more. Sees the cowboy with his 1911 exposed and shoots him in the ear before he does anything else. That's actually kind of logical for the bad guy.

Yep, because all nervous gangsta wannabe bad guys hopped up on PCP who robs convenience stores uses perfect logic. :rolleyes:

westkybanded
05-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Yep, because all nervous gangsta wannabe bad guys hopped up on PCP who robs convenience stores uses perfect logic. :rolleyes:

Just my take. Your mileage obviously varries greatly.

ptbrauch
05-28-2009, 01:25 PM
I have to agree with one argument the most: open carry frightens the public, and that's not good.

Wouldn't that be a good argument for more people to open carry-- kind of "desensitize" the public?

westkybanded
05-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Wouldn't that be a good argument for more people to open carry-- kind of "desensitize" the public?

Wouldn't ever happen. You'd need public figures and celebs carrying to change public opinion, and that's not going down.

Davidlondon4
05-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Another saying that makes a lot of sense---"Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6."

JohnChops
05-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Another saying that makes a lot of sense---"Its better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6."

Awesome. ;)

corndogggy
05-28-2009, 06:02 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/39722082.html