Brown Recluse Bite

[Beretta-fan]

My sister was bitten last week in her apt. After 10 days in the hospital it still looks horrible. I have never seen anything like it and had know idea a spider could do this. I don't mean to gross anyone out but I had to put a picture of her hand on here so you can see what I mean.
http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/Beretta-fan/IMG_4806.jpg

[philipfleek]

Good god man, tell us the rest of the story! Is she doing ok now? how long did she wait to seek help? And that pic is NASTY!!!!!!!

[buckdroppings]

What part of her hand is that?

[Beretta-fan]

She has to go to a hand specialist in lexington on tuesday. She has had a total of 4 surgeries so far. She can't move her fingers because of the scar tissue that is starting to form. I feel so bad for her, she cries everytime they change the bandages.
She actually didn't know she was bitten until it started swelling the nxt day. She went to the doctor and they told her it was nothing to worry about and sent her home. The following day it started hurting alot worse so she went to the ER this time and believe it or not they told her it was a boil and sent her home again! Finally it started to crack open and she went back again and they finally figured out that it was a spider bite. I know how crazy this sounds as I type it but I am telling the truth.
I am just glad they figured it out and are on the path to fixing her up. Turns out another girl in the same apartment building was bitten back in the fall. Her bite wasn't this bad though.

[Beretta-fan]

What part of her hand is that?

That picture was taken today and it is the back of her right hand.

[buckdroppings]

Are they sure it's a spider bite it looks like MRSA infection.

[philipfleek]

How old is your sister? And has she lived in that appt long?
Man That is just pure nasty. I'll send up some prayers for her and the family! We had a huge wolf spider down in the basement today and my sons were freaked out. No big deal then, but now you changed my mind on spiders!! Hope all turns out find......

[matewsq2]

Are they sure it's a spider bite it looks like MRSA infection.
My buddy got bit by one yrs ago on the leg putting on rubber boots at work an looked just like that he had all kinds of surgaries on it to.

[KYBOY]

I took an inmate to the hospital once with a brown recluse bite and it was not quite that bad, but almost..I watched another inmate that was bitten by a black widow and his wasnt as bad as the brown recluse...Spiders love those stone walls and steel bars :D

[Beretta-fan]

Are they sure it's a spider bite it looks like MRSA infection.
That is what they told her.

How old is your sister? And has she lived in that appt long?
Man That is just pure nasty. I'll send up some prayers for her and the family! We had a huge wolf spider down in the basement today and my sons were freaked out. No big deal then, but now you changed my mind on spiders!! Hope all turns out find......

She is 26. She has lived there for 2 years. Thank you for the prayers. I know that she is unlucky to have had this happen but it could have been much worse. Can you imagine if that thing would have bitten her on the neck or the face. Shewwwww I never did like spiders and now I know why.

[Beretta-fan]

My buddy got bit by one yrs ago on the leg putting on rubber boots at work an looked just like that he had all kinds of surgaries on it to.
How does it look after his bite healed up?

[Scott7m]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvPqUKTlGA

here is what spider bites can also do!

there is brown recluses everwhere here



Does anyone know what all the brown spiders in the creek beds are? I'll walk up my creek bed in the summer and literally see thousands of brown spiders from dime to quarter size

[Beretta-fan]

Yeah I've been googling alot of stuff about spider bites since sis got bit. Scares the hell out of me!
I don't know what those spiders you mentioned are but I've seen em too.

["KJ"]

Man, I hate spiders. I don't mind snakes at all, but spiders creep me out. Something the size of a dime, that can hide in your pillow case, and deliver a bite like that!:eek: I saw a show, where they did a study. I think it was in Missouri. And 70% of the homes there had brown recluse in them. Thats messed up! Hope your sister does good, Beretta.

[taximan]

My dad got bit last year on his houseboat by a recluse. It took him 7 months to get a clean blood test. He stayed on antibiotics and went to the doc about every 7-10 days. You never think about it until it hits close to home. I hate all spiders personally and try to steer clear of them. I hope she has a speedy recovery.

[JP]

Everyone responds a little differently depending on them and depending on the size of the spider. I've seen some pretty bad ones, but wow, your sister's looks rough. I was bitten on the calf a few years ago and it got quite ugly---took around 6-8 months to go away, but I was lucky that my skin never split like hers.....mine rotted instead leaving a black hole of flesh about the size of a half dollar. A pretty mild reaction from what I was told. Mine scarred, but not bad, but we are talking two completely different wounds.....I wish the best to your sis.

[slickhead slayer]

Brown Recluse bites are very easy to treat if caught early. But if not, the picture is exactly what happens. I have known several people to get bit over the years, all had different results depending on how fast they got treatment. 2 of the people I know who got bit, got bit by putting hunting boots on in the garage. Make sure you check your boots.
prayers for your sister, thats a shame they misdiagnosed her.

[KY_Fried]

A couple years ago I had a silver dollar sized sore on my hand that wouldn't heal. My doctor said it was probably a brown recluse bite but there was no way of knowing for sure at that point. He gave me some meds to put on it and within a couple weeks it was healed. Thank God it was NOTHING like what your poor sister has going on there though.:eek:
Back in the day I hardly ever heard of anyone getting bit by those things but now it seems like a pretty common occurrence. Wonder if they're getting more numerous or what?

[Snareman2]

Man, I feel for your sister, I hope she receives a speedy recovery. I'm barefooted, under my desk and I'm creeped out, keep thinking I'm going to get it on the foot.:eek:

[watermelon3308]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvPqUKTlGA

here is what spider bites can also do!

there is brown recluses everwhere here



Does anyone know what all the brown spiders in the creek beds are? I'll walk up my creek bed in the summer and literally see thousands of brown spiders from dime to quarter size that is some nasty stuff.i dont mind snakes at all.but spiders is a different story.i guess cause i dont know which ones are which.i hate when im squirrell hunting and get one of those webb hangers in the face and then you half to wonder if it fell off or is still crawling around on ya.i dont know a brown recluse from any of the other ones.

[Ky'sFinest]

I'm barefooted, under my desk and I'm creeped out, keep thinking I'm going to get it on the foot.:eek:


that's what i was thinking!!!:eek:

sorry to hear about sister. to bad we can't destroy all the poisonous spiders for good!

[KYBOY]

There is a well known trapper in IN that got bit on his leg and scrotum:eek:..He was down real bad for a while.
Ive been spider bit twice but it wasnt anything bad..Once left a big bright orange,blue purple bruise with a little hole in the middle(it healed up to nothing) and the other left a more visible sore . That one left a small scar on my hand. I saw the spider that bit my hand but it was unidentifiable after my initial reaction :D The inmates I mentioned in a earlier post looked pretty dang bad..One of them almost lost their finger..You could see their finger bone plain as day..Much like your poor sisters hand..man I hope she gets better soon.

[Beretta-fan]

Thanks for all the prayers. She will be going to lexington to get more surgeries and then start some skin grafts later on this week. I'll update this thread with another pic after her skin grafts.
On a side note: Does anyone know why a relatively small spider needs that much killing power? It's not like they need to eat a house cat.

[drakeshooter]

......She actually didn't know she was bitten until it started swelling the nxt day. She went to the doctor and they told her it was nothing to worry about and sent her home. The following day it started hurting alot worse so she went to the ER this time and believe it or not they told her it was a boil and sent her home again! Finally it started to crack open and she went back again and they finally figured out that it was a spider bite......

You think they got it right this time? I mean, they first told her it "was nothing to worry about", then it was a boil and now it's a spider bite? I read somewhere that Brown Recluse bites are actually misdiagnosed about 80% of the time. Staph is one of the culprits that gets mixed up as a spider bite. There is a test to ensure it is a Brown Recluse bite, but it's rarely used. I'd get another opinion if it were me.

[KYBOY]

Yes, the problem begins when spider bites are left to long and many times its the doctors fault for the problem :mad: "Oh, its nothing" they say :rolleyes:

[lymanl3]

My goodness!! I havent read any of the posts, only seen the picture and that was enough...man, I hope she gets better because that looked like bad news:(

[EKUgrad]

Tons, and I mean TONS of misinformation in this post. I wish her the best, she will be dealing with this for some time to come, unfortunately.

However, several inaccuracies need to be cleared up here; first off, there is NO absolutely beneficial treatment for brown recluse bites. Nothing has been proven to be universally effective, and, as such, there is no clearly agreed upon treatment. Systemic corticosteroids, dapsone, and a myriad of other treatments have been tried with no statistically significant improved results. Many will consider treatment with dapsone if there exists a high index of suspicion (i.e. someone comes in saying that they were bitten by a little brown spider), but treatment must be initiated within 48-72hrs for any hope of efficacy.

Next -- brown recluse bites remain largely a clinical diagnosis -- characteristic cutaneous findings in the setting of little brown critter exposure. Yes, the diagnosis is quite often missed initially, but this is because the tell-tale signs are later developments. The "blood test" that was mentioned is a serologic test fraught with problems. It is not widely available and is rarely used; the existence of a lab bench test does not always directly translate into a clinically useful test.

The sheer disdain for healthcare providers, doctors in particular, amongst the general public is unbelievable. It is rampant and frankly repugnant. It is a wonder that anyone continues to enter the field given its prospects and fall from grace.

[trust me]

The sheer disdain for healthcare providers, doctors in particular, amongst the general public is unbelievable. It is rampant and frankly repugnant. It is a wonder that anyone continues to enter the field given its prospects and fall from grace.

Since medical professionals get no respect, it must be the attraction of fast cars, easy money and loose women that keep the medical ranks chock full.

[EKUgrad]

Since medical professionals get no respect, it must be the attraction of fast cars, easy money and loose women that keep the medical ranks chock full.

Maybe... but the first one is dependent upon the second one (which has been gutted in large part over the past decade), and the latter are dime a dozen who still believe the fat cash lie. Med schools will always keep their seats full... there will always be someone wanting to play the role. The problem will be the quality of the hind ends in those chairs.

[rouge]

i got bit on the finger a couple mos ago. dont know what kind it was, just woke up and noticed an red itching spot and it progressed to a hole about the size of a bb. took a month to heal. i send my best wishes to your family.

[deadaim]

I does not take a rocket scientist or an EKU grad to see that Quality doctors that actually care about there patients are hard to find anymore. I am lucky to have a great doctor. But I went thru 3 quacks in the process. Its all about the money and return visits with most of the " professionals" Anyway back to the Subject at hand I hope your Sister recovers....what a terrible thing to go thru.

[slow-bow]

Man, Beretta....that's terrible! I hope everything works out for her. That just looks horrible. Has to be PAINFUL!

[Tim T]

However, several inaccuracies need to be cleared up here; first off, there is NO absolutely beneficial treatment for brown recluse bites. Nothing has been proven to be universally effective, and, as such, there is no clearly agreed upon treatment. Systemic corticosteroids, dapsone, and a myriad of other treatments have been tried with no statistically significant improved results. Many will consider treatment with dapsone if there exists a high index of suspicion (i.e. someone comes in saying that they were bitten by a little brown spider), but treatment must be initiated within 48-72hrs for any hope of efficacy.

Next -- brown recluse bites remain largely a clinical diagnosis -- characteristic cutaneous findings in the setting of little brown critter exposure. Yes, the diagnosis is quite often missed initially, but this is because the tell-tale signs are later developments. The "blood test" that was mentioned is a serologic test fraught with problems. It is not widely available and is rarely used; the existence of a lab bench test does not always directly translate into a clinically useful test.

I agree and was going to say the same thing but you beat me to it EKUgrad! :D

[buckfever]

There is a well known trapper in IN that got bit on his leg and scrotum:eek:.

The primary reason why 9 out of 10 doctors recommend that hunters wear underwear when they go afield. ;)

[slickhead slayer]

Tons, and I mean TONS of misinformation in this post. I wish her the best, she will be dealing with this for some time to come, unfortunately.

However, several inaccuracies need to be cleared up here; first off, there is NO absolutely beneficial treatment for brown recluse bites. Nothing has been proven to be universally effective, and, as such, there is no clearly agreed upon treatment. Systemic corticosteroids, dapsone, and a myriad of other treatments have been tried with no statistically significant improved results. Many will consider treatment with dapsone if there exists a high index of suspicion (i.e. someone comes in saying that they were bitten by a little brown spider), but treatment must be initiated within 48-72hrs for any hope of efficacy.

Next -- brown recluse bites remain largely a clinical diagnosis -- characteristic cutaneous findings in the setting of little brown critter exposure. Yes, the diagnosis is quite often missed initially, but this is because the tell-tale signs are later developments. The "blood test" that was mentioned is a serologic test fraught with problems. It is not widely available and is rarely used; the existence of a lab bench test does not always directly translate into a clinically useful test.

The sheer disdain for healthcare providers, doctors in particular, amongst the general public is unbelievable. It is rampant and frankly repugnant. It is a wonder that anyone continues to enter the field given its prospects and fall from grace.

Agreed that there is very little treatment for the actual bite. But treating the necrosis that stems from it is what is critical. My understanding is that if caught early, there is much better chance of not having the serious necrosis.

[lymanl3]

I doubt any corticosteroids will currently benefit this patient. Prophylactially yes but even long term use is contraindicated. People react different the toxin and its difficult to diagnosis and then bam...its too late. This trauma is a set up for a secondary/opportunistic infection. The wound MUST stay clean. The problem is so many antibiotics are used indiscriminantly resistance is rampant....selective ones could be used especially in this situation where a secondary infection is likely. I wouldnt want to touch this one with a 10 ft pole...prayers sent... Oh, and I wouldnt get that close to a camera or anything.....

Lyman

[lymanl3]

Okay I read a little more in this...after the second visit was anything prescribed? I mean antibiotics can be used for treatments of boils as well when risk of sepsis is possible. Anytime infection of that amount gets in the bloodstream it is not good. I only assume by looking at the wound, and the amount of pain she was in something had to be given.

Lyman

[EKUgrad]

Fellas,

Brown recluse bites range in severity to mild local reactions to whole body problems, complete with headaches, fevers, chills, myalgias, ect, where circulating blood cells lyse and you develop what is known as loxoscelism. Early diagnosis and initiation of dapsone treatment may result in a decrease in the severity of local reactions, but, and I stress, this remains somewhat controversial.... even if you jump in right away (meaning within a few hours of the bite) with both feet and start dapsone you very well may continue to develop the necrosis. It's simply not that great of a treatment. Even more controversial is how to address the necrosis once it begins to develop. The degree of cutaneous necrosis is related both to individual response as well as the volume of envenomation. It is actually the rare case that develops necrosis such as this. Secondary infection, while important to recognize and watch out for, is actually less of a problem than one would think. Consideration can be given to prophylactic antibiotics, but again, this is not universally accepted (and many will only treat with antibiotics if there exists a high index of suspicion for either subclinical infection, frank infection, or increased susceptibility for infection). The real problem stems from the fact that the extent of the necrosis is not fully appreciated for days, if not weeks following the bite, which leads people to inaccurately assume that it is spreading or getting worse, when, in fact, it was going to be that bad from the outset. BTW, I agree that systemic steroids, at this point, is not likely to help any either... but I would not fault anyone who tried. Basically, we don't know whether they would help or not, but they are quite unlikely to hurt or hinder the process at this point.

Best wishes.

[lymanl3]

Wanna see some real morons? I was doing a MRSA search for class and ran across "popthatzit.com"...real nice home cyst removal surgeries and spider bites. I was amazed of how stupid people are...

[turkeytalker]

:eek:Wanna see some real morons? I was doing a MRSA search for class and ran across "popthatzit.com"...real nice home cyst removal surgeries and spider bites. I was amazed of how stupid people are...


Ok with tin foil in place:), what is MRSA? Is that the staff infections going around last year? Surely they don't get that bad:eek:, otherwise my kids will never be in another locker room.

[WaterDog88]

I feel for your sister. I was bitten above my knee while asleep in my sleeping bag on a camping trip. It started to rain and we took refuge in an old farm house, "spider heaven," but I was treated quickly and it only progressed to a half dollar size puss filled black sore. I have a scar now but its gotten better over the years. The spider did not fair to well in this case. I must have crushed him in the night b/c he or what was left of him was still in the bag when we checked it a few days latter. I check my sheets every night when its warm, shake out my boots/shoes, and dont camp in old farm houses. My thoughts and prayers are with your sister...

[buckdroppings]

:eek:


Ok with tin foil in place:), what is MRSA? Is that the staff infections going around last year? Surely they don't get that bad:eek:, otherwise my kids will never be in another locker room.

MRSA is extremely dangerous and highly contagious staff infection. If not treated immediately it can cripple disfigure or even kill you. Even when treated aggressively it usually comes back several time before you are rid of it. Schools, hospitals, gyms take it very seriously.

I watched one of the sport shows on HBO where several NFL players careers were ended because of it.

[yote hunter]

Tons, and I mean TONS of misinformation in this post. I wish her the best, she will be dealing with this for some time to come, unfortunately.

However, several inaccuracies need to be cleared up here; first off, there is NO absolutely beneficial treatment for brown recluse bites. Nothing has been proven to be universally effective, and, as such, there is no clearly agreed upon treatment. Systemic corticosteroids, dapsone, and a myriad of other treatments have been tried with no statistically significant improved results. Many will consider treatment with dapsone if there exists a high index of suspicion (i.e. someone comes in saying that they were bitten by a little brown spider), but treatment must be initiated within 48-72hrs for any hope of efficacy.

Next -- brown recluse bites remain largely a clinical diagnosis -- characteristic cutaneous findings in the setting of little brown critter exposure. Yes, the diagnosis is quite often missed initially, but this is because the tell-tale signs are later developments. The "blood test" that was mentioned is a serologic test fraught with problems. It is not widely available and is rarely used; the existence of a lab bench test does not always directly translate into a clinically useful test.

The sheer disdain for healthcare providers, doctors in particular, amongst the general public is unbelievable. It is rampant and frankly repugnant. It is a wonder that anyone continues to enter the field given its prospects and fall from grace.

English only please.some of us went to public school:D

[therron258]

MRSA is extremely dangerous and highly contagious staff infection. If not treated immediately it can cripple disfigure or even kill you. Even when treated aggressively it usually comes back several time before you are rid of it. Schools, hospitals, gyms take it very seriously.

I watched one of the sport shows on HBO where several NFL players careers were ended because of it.


kenny george, that huge bball player from UNC Asheville had part of his foot amputated because of a staph infection, thats why he is no longer playing and not going to be in the NBA

[philipfleek]

Thanks for all the prayers. She will be going to lexington to get more surgeries and then start some skin grafts later on this week. I'll update this thread with another pic after her skin grafts.
On a side note: Does anyone know why a relatively small spider needs that much killing power? It's not like they need to eat a house cat.

Hey man, how's she doing now? Let us know...

[Hammer]

my condolences to beretta fan's sister. I'm sure this is a spider bite, but MRSA has been mentioned too. She didn't just develop a spontaneous infection on the back or her hand without a cause (bite probably). Nothing to say it might not be both a bite and subsequent MRSA infection too. :(

I had a post-op MRSA infection in 2006 after my neck surgery. Nasty, painful stuff. I had a 1 week hospitalization followed by 7 weeks of IV antibiotics at home, but that's getting sidetracked.

EKU grad posted some good info although it seems really cocky for whatever reason. I would guess he's either already a MD or in school now. That's a good resource to have here in community for all of us rednecks. :D The no respect part won't be well received though for already mentioned reasons. He's correct though with the lower pay, more regs, insurance woes, and litigation constantly. Why do you think we see so many foreign doctors now?? If the Americans don't want to do the work and go through all that training, I can guarantee you there are thousands of Indians and Chinese that do.

Lastly, I'm pretty familiar with recovery/rehab as that's my field. Beretta-fan, your sister is going to need TONS of therapy, and I'm afraid it's going to suck and hurt a whole lot. :o She's going to need a lot of encouragement though, and I'm sure she'll be caused financial woes by all of this too. Encourage her to go to therapy and not miss. Also, she won't do the therapy at home effectively. That's been proven over and over... An outpatient setting is where she will probably be 3-5 times a week for months. Hands are so important, and she's young and needs to get all of that function back. She'll probably have a lot of Occupational Therapy as opposed to Physical Therapy, and it would be great if she could have that therapy done by a Hand Certified Occupational Therapist. You mentioned her not moving her fingers and how much pain there is. I can get with my 2 acquaintances here in town that are Hand Certified to get you a referral name in your area if you wish.

Best wishes to her, and please keep us all updated. Thanks for posting the picture and the symptoms too. Might save one of us here some future pain if early treatment is obtained.

[EKUgrad]

Hammer,

"Informed" was my intent, not cocky... if Patterson were to say that I knew nothing of the low post and that he would whoop me on or off the court, that would not be cocky... that would be stating a fact.... ;) and I knew that commenting on the woes of the medical profession would not be well received, but political correctness and appeasing the masses have never really been a strong suit. Things get called the way that I see them (whether I am right or wrong)... it does not matter if we're talking about farm prices, UK basketball, politics, etc. The second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking that has become increasingly prevelant over the last several years undermines the delivery of effective medical care, and the internet has been the source of much misinformation that is propogated and accepted as gospel, when, in fact, it is often incorrect rubbish.

You are correct that rehab will be necessary but not fun... that was an impressive wound in a bad location from a functional standpoint to have one.... hopefully she has been doing exercises to maintain range of motion throughout the process. Even full thickness skin grafts will not prevent contracture in the absence of PT/OT.

[EKUgrad]

English only please.some of us went to public school:D

I got ya.. :o

Basically, we have tried lots o' stuff, nothing really works great, and to have any hope of benefit it needs to be started within a few hours of the bite.... which often occurs at night, is not noticed until the next morning, some time is spent debating what to do, and the window of opportunity closes... after which time we are left dealing with the aftermath. The diagnosis of spider bite is not easy and straightforward either (unless someone comes in and says "I think that I have been bitten by a little brown spider which we have crawling all over our house"... which does not happen very often.

[Beretta-fan]

Hey man, how's she doing now? Let us know...
Her hand is looking better and she can move her fingers back and forth a little bit. She is going to get some more work done on it Tuesday. I will get an updated pic up so you guys can see how much better it looks. Still very bad- but much better than the first pic I posted.
She has been lucky to not get any of those nasty infections that have been mentioned on here. She keeps it as clean as she can but with an open wound that size it seems it would be very easy to pick something up.

[maxcam]

Damnit man.....I have a hard enough time during squirrel season dealing with those darn spiders and the webs......Nothing makes me squirm worse than to have one of those gawd awful critters crawling around inside my shirt while im trying to locate the tree those durn treerats are cuttin in........Now I gotta worry about losing half my chest because they might cause my skin to rot...........:(

I pray for a speedy recovery for you sister and hope that she regains full use of her hand!

[maxcam]

EKU Grad .....While I appreciate your desire to set the record straight.....I have yet to see a damn doctor refuse payment until after the patient is fully recovered and all is well......Ild be willing to bet that the docs that saw this young girl have NOT offered to refund her money......In fact they will be sending letters from the collection agency before she can grip a pen! There in lies the huge gross negligents in our health care system........Ever studied up on the number of overbillings that are caught every year?

Sure their are a few that are in it for the betterment of mankind....I just aint met any of em yet!

[7mmx2]

You all are making me itch!!!

I hope she has a speedy recovery!!

[Hammer]

Hammer,

"Informed" was my intent, not cocky... if Patterson were to say that I knew nothing of the low post and that he would whoop me on or off the court, that would not be cocky... that would be stating a fact.... ;) and I knew that commenting on the woes of the medical profession would not be well received, but political correctness and appeasing the masses have never really been a strong suit. Things get called the way that I see them (whether I am right or wrong)... it does not matter if we're talking about farm prices, UK basketball, politics, etc. The second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking that has become increasingly prevelant over the last several years undermines the delivery of effective medical care, and the internet has been the source of much misinformation that is propogated and accepted as gospel, when, in fact, it is often incorrect rubbish.

You are correct that rehab will be necessary but not fun... that was an impressive wound in a bad location from a functional standpoint to have one.... hopefully she has been doing exercises to maintain range of motion throughout the process. Even full thickness skin grafts will not prevent contracture in the absence of PT/OT.

ha ha, and I was calling it like I saw it too! :) Of course you didn't mean to come off cocky. I really agree with you on one point; I see things that are taken as gospel that are wrong frequently too. Like I said, you can be a great source for all of us rednecks on this site. ;)