Abortion

[KyBucks10]

I wrote this a few months back, but i want to share it with you guys...This describes a conversation that i had with a lady and a guy here at UK...Its about abortion and i was defending my beliefs on the situation...feel free to comment and let me know what you think...

So today i got into an arguement with a couple of people about abortion. I wont say any names because thats not important. What i will say is some of there questions and their side of the argument and explain my feelings on the issuse.
So some things that was said to me..

-You hunt deer, and you go out and kill animals for the sport and you hang them on your wall!!
-well, yes i do hunt, i love to hunt and yes i do have a few animals on my wall. But first off, how does this compare to the killing of a human life? If you are going to lower yourself down and compare yourself to a deer, then i dont feel like you even have any right to argue with me. And if you are going to get mad at me for hunting deer, then lets look at this hypothetical situation. Ever year in the state of Kentucky alone, there are around 120,000 deer that are killed by hunters. So lets say that next year, we close down the hunting season for the entire season. That means that there are at least 120,000 extra deer that run across our highways. If you and your son are driving down one of those highways and a deer runs out in front of the car next to you, and they swerve, hit you, and kill your son thats in the car with you, you might wish, "Man i really wish Daren was allowed to go out and kill that deer instead of me loosing my son because i was being petty and greedy." And besides, Deer dont kill there babies, why should we. In fact, we are the only species that kills their offspring, except for the animals that eat their offspring.....

-Okay, well if you are going to school to be a doctor, and you are almost a doctor but you arent quite there yet, does that make you a doctor? No! its the same thing with a baby, if its not functioning yet, then its not a baby yet.
-Okay these two things are not even comparable. If i am going to school to be a doctor, i might not be a doctor yet, but i have already engaged myself in the act of becoming a doctor. Therefore, soon when i get my degree, i will be a doctor. The same with a baby. If you have sex, and you get pregnant, you engaged in the act of becoming a mother, and to make a baby. Therefore soon, you will have a baby. What your argument should compare to is a woman having a natural menstrual cycle. Because even though the egg was discharged from the womans body, it has not been engaged in the act of reproduction. Therefore it wont make a baby. The egg that is produced from a woman having a menstrual cycle is not abortion because she cant help the fact that she is made to have a menstrual cycle.

-Well if you have sex in hopes of getting pregnant, and the first time that you have sex, the egg and the sperm that met, fail to create a fetus, is that murder? And this happens 3 out of 4 times that you have sex, and you know that its going to happen. Is that murder since you know that 3 out of the 4 fertilized eggs are not going to survive?
-NO!! How can you even assume that it is murder? If the egg and sperm fail to create a fetus, the woman has nothing to do with that. She didnt go to some doctor and have that doctor forcefully stop that egg and that sperm from creating a fetus, or worse, later down the road, stop that fetus growing and developing into a baby. It was natural for that egg and sperm to not create a fetus. You cant help the fact that they might not NATURALLY survive. And how do you know that 3 out of 4 times that the sperm and egg will die? You cant assume things like this.

-Well if you was in a building that was on fire, and over in this room there are 10 microscopic eggs that had just been fertilized and had not started to function yet, and over in this room there is a new born baby, which would you try to save.
-Okay, even though there is an already living, breathing, crying, human life over in this room, i would have to save the 10 fetus'. Because even though they are not breathing and crying yet, they will eventually grow into 10 living, breathing, crying babies, and last time i checked...10 is better than 1.

-Well what if the girl is raped?
-I still dont agree with punishing the child by penalty of death, because of something terrible that happened to a woman. The child didnt do anything!!! If anything, she should take that pain and hurt and turn it into a blessing, either for herself or for another family.
-Not everyone can just give up a baby for adoption, because once you feel that baby kick, you become attached to it, and some women cant afford to raise the child.
-Soooo does killing the baby make you feel more warm and fuzzy?

-Well im pro-choice, and I believe that a woman has the right do do what she wants with her body and that no "MAN" should be allowed to tell her what to do with her body!!
-Okay, first off, you are not pro-choice. You have bought into the benign names that liberals have fed you. Tell us what you really are, your Pro-abortion!! If you are really pro-choice, then why dont you give that baby the choice to decide whether or not their life sucks!!! And me being a man, Im not telling you want to do with your body. Im defending the body and life of that baby. They have there own body ya know, and its not YOURS!!!!

Look yall, my world view is obviously not the same as every ones world view. My world view is based off of biblical views and that is where i get my opinions from. I believe in God and i believe that if you become pregnant, that is was meant to be. The bible clearly states that "I formed you in the whom," and "While you was in the whom, I knew you." That is God speaking to us as his children. So in my opinion, from what God tells us through his word, I believe that life begins as conception, not at birth, and that NO ONE should be allowed to take that away. And if anyone who reads this, believes in God and still disagrees with me, maybe you should re-evaluate what you believe, and realize that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. And for anyone who read this and doesnt believe in God and you would like to talk to me about what i believe in, please feel free to call me, message me, or get a hold of me anyway you can. Im not saying any of this to offend anyone, I am just stating what i believe is right and true.

God Bless

[CanisMajor]

Sounds like you did a good job, but there is no reasoning with these people. They are simply bent getting rid of these babies. Until their minds are opened by the Holy Spirit, they can't change.

One additional response that come to mind:
Reasoning: "10 microscopic eggs that had just been fertilized..."
Response: About 150 years ago, many people in the United States felt the same way about individuals with dark brown skin who originated from Africa. About 70 years ago Hitler and the Nazi's felt the same way about individuals who had descended from a man named Abraham. When people assign value to human life due to the shade of their skin, or their ethnic origin, or if they have cleared the birth canal, then we have depravity. What about those with mental and physical disabilities; are they not human "enough"? Should we assign value to them based on whether or not they look like you? Should we assign value to them based on whether or not they think like you? Should we assign value to them based on whether or not they can perform useful work? The fact is, God is the one who places value on human life, just because it is human life. We have no right to de-value human life.

Reasoning: "Well I'm pro-choice, and I believe that a woman has the right do do what she wants with her body..."
Response: Back in 2001 a man used that same line of reasoning to fly himself into the World Trade Center. He thought he had every right to do with his body what he wanted. Problem was, what he did destroyed the lives of thousands of other people who wished they could have exercised their right to do what they wanted with their bodies that day. Do you applaud his actions and say "He had the right to choose. After all, it was his body and nobody had the right to tell him what he could or couldn't do with it."

But again, you could shoot down every one of their arguments and show them logically how foolish their reasoning is all day, but it won't have any effect unless God works in their hearts. They need prayer more than anything

Best wishes, and keep fighting the good fight.

[yote hunter]

good post but using logic and reason with most liberals is a waste of your time.

[KyBucks10]

CM, that is an amazing way of looking at things...thanks for that...but yes i agree very much so...conversing with people like those 2 is like getting stuck in the mud...you are trying but inevitably, you are going no where...

[bowhuntermoe]

One thing they can't do, is stop us from PRAYING for them, and thats what we as christans need to do more of.:)

[mwezell]

It's not my place or yours to judge anyone for anything? You mention God and place yourself on a pedestal and then judge someone else. I don't know anyone that is pro abortion. Pro choice is another story. You can't legislate morals. Stealing is IMO, immoral and against the law too but doesn't stop alot of people from doing it. I don't want the gov't making medical or moral decisions for me. I DO NOT advocate abortion but I leave judging people for their sins to God. --Mike Ezell

[bowhuntermoe]

It's not judgement when it's writen in the book it's a fact.

[mwezell]

It's not judgement when it's writen in the book it's a fact.

You still can't legislate morals! Outlaw abortions and abortions will still happen but not in proper medical facilities, and many young women and their unborn child will die. It's not law that I "honor thy father and mother"...but I do. Teach our kids good morals at home and church and they will make the right choice.---Mike

[grousebuster]

You still can't legislate morals! Outlaw abortions and abortions will still happen but not in proper medical facilities, and many young women and their unborn child will die. It's not law that I "honor thy father and mother"...but I do. Teach our kids good morals at home and church and they will make the right choice.---Mike

There's legislation passed to prevent or punish those that steal, murder, or abuse. I believe those are moral issues. Do you suggest we do away with legislation dealing with murder and theft?

[B.M. Barrelcooker]

Christ = Love

I find it hard to live it most of the time. But if we profess to be christians we must forgive,not judge, and love. Even those whom we disagree with.

I fail at it every day several times but God still loves me and keeps on giving me chances. Keep praying for and loving them. Somewhere deep inside what they really need is someone or something(GOD) to trust.

Good luck man.

[killinmammals]

Christ = Love

I find it hard to live it most of the time. But if we profess to be christians we must forgive,not judge, and love. Even those whom we disagree with.

I fail at it every day several times but God still loves me and keeps on giving me chances. Keep praying for and loving them. Somewhere deep inside what they really need is someone or something(GOD) to trust.

Good luck man.
excellent...couldn't say it any better. And no I'm not saying I agree with abortion...I can't stand the thought of it

[duckslayer870]

How about those packers........

I dont agree with abortion personally, I would never tell any one to do it, but I cannot stop what person wants to do with thier body nor do I have the right to. But this is the difference a reasonable person with a real wide conservative streak and a liberal who thinks they have the right to tell everyone how to live.

[reivertom]

How about those packers........

I dont agree with abortion personally, I would never tell any one to do it, but I cannot stop what person wants to do with thier body nor do I have the right to. But this is the difference a reasonable person with a real wide conservative streak and a liberal who thinks they have the right to tell everyone how to live.

The Lord said he knows us even in the womb. He also said what we do to the least of us , we do to Him. If the Lord thinks it's killing babies, that's good enough for me. It's not just Christians telling folks how to live, it's not just a personal opinion.

[turkeytalker]

Abortion is murder, murder is legislated. Besides if a Christian isn't speaking out against abortion, they had better check their faith.

[matewsq2]

You still can't legislate morals! Outlaw abortions and abortions will still happen but not in proper medical facilities, and many young women and their unborn child will die. It's not law that I "honor thy father and mother"...but I do. Teach our kids good morals at home and church and they will make the right choice.---Mike
the way I see abortion is that if they have one they should be sentinced to death an not wait around do it an get it over with an the dr. them preforms it get to an after a while it will stop IMO.

[Jim in Annville]

Amen turkeytalker. Just one question for all those liberals How about the choice for the father. the child is part of him. Why doesn't he get a choice?

[Foam Steak]

I think it should be legal up until the 57th trimester. <--- Make that 75th.

[TripleGee]

What I don't get is the fact that no one anywhere mentions responsibility or even abstinance on the issue of having sex in the first place. When two people have sex they are calling upon the most powerful force created by God...LIFE! When two people have sex, they are saying YES to LIFE!!! COME ON DOWN!!!! And LIFE erupts!!!
I hear the arguments about how "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it!" True, it is your body, but you also have a responsibility to control that body. Hopefully you control your body to not murder, rape, et cetera and so on right? Then you also have a responsibility to not have sex if you are not willing to deal with the life your body is trying to create. Abortion is just a horrid copout for irresponsibility!!! IT's murder plain and simple!!!
I wager that no sane woman who has ever had a child, desires to kill the next one that comes along. Even the woman who was responsible for Roe vs. Wade is now anti-abortion.
I'll have more on this disgusting practice later on. Right now, I've got to get ready for work. I hope all of you who made it successfully past the abortionist' knife have a great day!

Trip

[Xi Bowhunter]

How about those packers........

I dont agree with abortion personally, I would never tell any one to do it, but I cannot stop what person wants to do with thier body nor do I have the right to. But this is the difference a reasonable person with a real wide conservative streak and a liberal who thinks they have the right to tell everyone how to live.

I agree. I feel that abortion is wrong, and I would NEVER condone it. We are supposed to live in a free society, and people are for the most part free to do what they want. I can do my part and try to talk to people about why I think it is wrong, but what they do is their own decision to make, and they have to live with the conquences after the deed is done. I have enough trouble keeping up with my own decisions, let alone trying to regulate someone else's.

[Landguy]

[QUOTE=duckslayer870;723940]

I dont agree with abortion personally, I would never tell any one to do it, but I cannot stop what person wants to do with thier body nor do I have the right to. QUOTE]

This is my feeling as well. A lot of people have strong feelings about this subject and I understand that but it's not up to me to tell someone else how to live their life.

[KyBucks10]

well to all you guys that talk about you dont agree with it but you dont think you should tell someone else what to do with their body, maybe you should take a look at this...in the constitution, it is written...

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
-the Preamble

"nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"
-the fifth amendment

even if you dont believe in God and agree with what he has to say about the subject, you still believe in living in a great and free nation right?? well one of the rules for living in this free nation is that NO ONE shall be deprived of life...and that word posterity, means the future of this nation...ie OUR CHILDREN!! i mean cmon guys, it is written twice in the constitution, the very rules of this nation, and you still dont think it should be outlawed...and you personally might not have the right to tell people what to do, but guess what!!!!! you have the right to vote and YES the government has the right to tell people what to do with their body, i mean they are the ones that carry out the death penalty...and speaking of the death penalty, if abortion ever was outlawed and if a girl goes into some back ally somewhere to have an abortion in the back of a van, she is not only putting her health on the line, but she would also be committing 1ST DEGREE MURDER, which means that she can get the death penalty...also if you do believe in God, thats more than enough to disagree with abortion. and like i said and was said earlier, if you are a believer and you still agree, or even remotely think it is okay, you need to reevaluate what you believe in...

[mwezell]

As I said before, I don't know anyone who is pro abortion. So far, no one here has said that they are. It's just not my place to make decisions for others or to judge them. If you don't believe in something...don't do it. Just please leave the gov't out of my religious and moral decision making. --Mike

[KyBucks10]

As I said before, I don't know anyone who is pro abortion. So far, no one here has said that they are. It's just not my place to make decisions for others or to judge them. If you don't believe in something...don't do it. Just please leave the gov't out of my religious and moral decision making. --Mike


i think that you need to go back and re read everything that was posted and figure out where you seeing that i or anyone is judging other people...if that was the case, i would have ended my post with "so if you have had an abortion, i think that you are a terrible person." now tell me, did i say that????? NO!!!! in fact i ended my post with an offer to help people...not judge them...its not my place to judge people, its Gods, and the bible tells us that he will judge us according to how we judge others...so why would i judge people for a decision that they make...

[Hammer]

this is obviously a very touch subject!

I hate abortion; the thought of it turns my stomach. However, Roe vs. Wade is NEVER going to be overturned, and arguing about it does no good.

I'm very open with my children about issues of love, sexuality, abstinence, and everything else that goes along with human development. It's up to them to make the right choices. It's up to me and everybody else to teach their children and to pray for them.

It's not up to me or anybody else to tell a pregnant woman/girl how wrong it is for them to have an abortion. It's not up to the government either. The person who has unprotected sex and gets pregnant and has an abortion I believe has sinned. So too has the person that went to the all you can eat buffet and had 4 plates of food.

James 2:10
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

I'm a sinner as we all are. I'll give my opinion and say I think abortion is wrong, but I'm not going to do it unsolicited. Teach your kids, answer when asked, and pray for others. That's what you can do. Arguing with someone who is pro abortion/choice is like spitting in the wind. :o

[reivertom]

[quote=duckslayer870;723940]

I dont agree with abortion personally, I would never tell any one to do it, but I cannot stop what person wants to do with thier body nor do I have the right to. QUOTE]

This is my feeling as well. A lot of people have strong feelings about this subject and I understand that but it's not up to me to tell someone else how to live their life.

What if they want to smother their newborn so they can "get on with their life". What's the difference? The baby is inside the womb and being murdered, or the baby is outside the womb being murdered. OR as in a "partial birth abortion", the body is outside the womb and the head is left inside and the brains are chopped up and sucked out while the baby is still kicking, so they can "get on with their lives". Sorry, I do care what others do with their life when it involves murdering babies.

[Hammer]

[quote=Landguy;724126]

What if they want to smother their newborn so they can "get on with their life". What's the difference? The baby is inside the womb and being murdered, or the baby is outside the womb being murdered. OR as in a "partial birth abortion", the body is outside the womb and the head is left inside and the brains are chopped up and sucked out while the baby is still kicking, so they can "get on with their lives". Sorry, I do care what others do with their life when it involves murdering babies.


so, what are you going to do about it?

[reivertom]

Praying and trying to convince people that babies aren't just a bunch of unwanted tissue. Supporting pro life politicians. Supporting my church. How 'bout you?

[Hammer]

Praying and trying to convince people that babies aren't just a bunch of unwanted tissue. Supporting pro life politicians. Supporting my church. How 'bout you?


I'm not trying to convince anybody for reasons I've already given, but the other 3 things yes. :)

[reivertom]

I left out contacting our Reps in DC, etc. I do try to make apathetic people look at abortion for what it is. I was one of those people once. I was brain washed by the liberal media and the "Feel Good" 70's crowd on TV and aquaintances. I looked at it like an appendix operation, much like alot of folks in my era did. I started to really look into it as it became more of a political topic and as I rediscovered my faith. About that time I became re-aquainted with a girl I knew from years past.(a friend's sister not a old flame) She had had an abortion as a 19 year old and never got over it. She nearly drove herself over the edge with guilt and mourning for her aborted child even 20 years later. This was one aspect that I hadn't experienced before and it then became very personal to me when I saw her pain first hand. The dirty little secret that the baby killers keep is that not just the baby is the victim in many cases. There are many girls and boys that get caught up in the propaganda and lies of the left, have or support an abortion and later realize what they've done. I need to stop now so I can calm down for bed time, 4:30 comes quick..

[mwezell]

i think that you need to go back and re read everything that was posted and figure out where you seeing that i or anyone is judging other people...if that was the case, i would have ended my post with "so if you have had an abortion, i think that you are a terrible person." now tell me, did i say that????? NO!!!! in fact i ended my post with an offer to help people...not judge them...its not my place to judge people, its Gods, and the bible tells us that he will judge us according to how we judge others...so why would i judge people for a decision that they make...

Until now, I have not quoted anyone or called any one person out on this, but since you have called on me...and you "wrote about" this subject, and you had an "argument " about this subject, and you started this thread... I think you should go back to your first post and YOU should re-read it. Then go here....http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgement
---Mike Ezell

[cornbread]

Abortion is WRONG plain and simple and I don't want to hear all the BS about a woman's right to choose. It makes me sick that people think that it is ok to MURDER babies. If they don't want to have a child then don't have sex. As for the goverment they already tell you what you can and can't do. They can tell you that you can't purchase alchoholic beverages until you are 21 and yet people don't want them to legislate abortion. Give me a break.

Abortion is ok but capital pushinment isn't. :mad:

[KyBucks10]

Praying and trying to convince people that babies aren't just a bunch of unwanted tissue. Supporting pro life politicians. Supporting my church. How 'bout you?


best post on here!!! amen!!

[KyBucks10]

Until now, I have not quoted anyone or called any one person out on this, but since you have called on me...and you "wrote about" this subject, and you had an "argument " about this subject, and you started this thread... I think you should go back to your first post and YOU should re-read it. Then go here....http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judgement
---Mike Ezell


okay do me this favor...go to my post and copy and paste what you think is "judgement" and then we will talk...
in my opinion, there is nothing that i said that even hints at me having an opinion on a person based on what someone has done. im just as guilty for the sins that i have committed as they are...but at the same time, i put filters on my computer that send a report to my close christian brothers, i have accountability parterns to ask me how im doing in my private life, i openly talk about what things i do that are sinful with my close christian friends and with God so that i can help myself become a better christian and a better follower of christ so that i can live a life that is an example for nonchristians. so if my brothers in christ try to help me stop with my sins, why cant i try to help my sisters in christ stop their sins?????
im not judging anyone for what they do...i love all people and i dont look down on anyone for what they do, because its not my place to...but as the bible says, help your brothers and sister live their lives for christ, and that doesnt mean sitting back and saying, "im not going to do anything because its their choice." Christ calls us to life one another up, not to look at one another and say im not going to help them because its not my place to...that my friend in ridiculous...

[justdacehayes]

I believe that we must stand against all that...would do harm to those who cant defend themselves. That would include all children ...born or unborn..........and any others regardless of age,sex, race, etc. If you saw a stanger under attack being killed would you just turn your head. I seriously doubt that Christ would. I will be for abortion when we can abort the mother and keep the baby. I do understand the pressure that comes with an unwanted pregnancy...but there are other options. The most precious thing in the world is a child. Think of the potential of any child .....whos to say which one might be the one to change the world into a better place for all. Everyone deserves a chance to live!

[Rat]

OK, so many of you talk about not judging people. Do any of you judge Hitler or the Nazi SS soldiers who killed people during the Holocaust? I sure as heck do. They were disgusting evil people. For all of your information, the Holocaust during WWII resulted in 17-22 million deaths. Why? Because the Nazi's chose to get rid of them because they were a plague, an incovenience, a problem.

Now in 2003, there were an approximate 42 million medical abortions performed. That is in 1 year. The Nazi's were considered evil because they killed ~22 million in over 10 years. Now why doesn't anyone see it as evil that there are over 40 million deaths of children each year?

I've heard the argument that people don't want to tell a woman what to do with her own body, but where is the science that the baby is her body? There is no scientific evidence to back this up. In fact scientifically, the baby and the mother are genetically different. That means that it is not part of her body. I've studied years of genetics and biology and cannot fathom how someone could make the claims that "Pro-choice" people make. People say that the baby is dependent entirely and cannot live without the mother, therefore it is her choice. Again, I know many women that breastfeed their babies. They give them no other supplements. Therefore these babies are entirely dependent on the mother to live. If these women were to kill their babies, it would be called murder. I don't understand the double standard.

Do any of you that consider yourselves "Pro-choice" think that abortions after 19 months are okay? If so, I wanted to tell you that babies have lived outside the womb at 19 months. Therefore this proves that the baby is living.

To sum up, I feel that it is my duty to not only state how I feel, but also to judge those that feel abortion is okay. I judge these people the same way I would have judged the Nazi's as they lead the Jew's, christians, and others to the death camps. Their action is evil, and they may see salvation, but they must repent for their sins are against the most innocent beings on this earth.

[KyBucks10]

OK, so many of you talk about not judging people. Do any of you judge Hitler or the Nazi SS soldiers who killed people during the Holocaust? I sure as heck do. They were disgusting evil people. For all of your information, the Holocaust during WWII resulted in 17-22 million deaths. Why? Because the Nazi's chose to get rid of them because they were a plague, an incovenience, a problem.

Now in 2003, there were an approximate 42 million medical abortions performed. That is in 1 year. The Nazi's were considered evil because they killed ~22 million in over 10 years. Now why doesn't anyone see it as evil that there are over 40 million deaths of children each year?

I've heard the argument that people don't want to tell a woman what to do with her own body, but where is the science that the baby is her body? There is no scientific evidence to back this up. In fact scientifically, the baby and the mother are genetically different. That means that it is not part of her body. I've studied years of genetics and biology and cannot fathom how someone could make the claims that "Pro-choice" people make. People say that the baby is dependent entirely and cannot live without the mother, therefore it is her choice. Again, I know many women that breastfeed their babies. They give them no other supplements. Therefore these babies are entirely dependent on the mother to live. If these women were to kill their babies, it would be called murder. I don't understand the double standard.

Do any of you that consider yourselves "Pro-choice" think that abortions after 19 months are okay? If so, I wanted to tell you that babies have lived outside the womb at 19 months. Therefore this proves that the baby is living.

To sum up, I feel that it is my duty to not only state how I feel, but also to judge those that feel abortion is okay. I judge these people the same way I would have judged the Nazi's as they lead the Jew's, christians, and others to the death camps. Their action is evil, and they may see salvation, but they must repent for their sins are against the most innocent beings on this earth.


i totally agree with your middle 3 paragraphs but to judge anyone is wrong...no matter what they did, do or will do...its not our place to judge anyone...is Gods place...Judging is not our job, helping life that person up is our job...i dont judge hilter for what he did even though what he did was sick and horrible...but he got his judgement that day that he took his life...so dont take what i just said as me thinking that what hilter and the nazis did as okay, but i still wont judge them for what they did...just as i wont judge the woman for what she did or even the doctors for what they did...judging is wrong and NOT the answer...