Man dies in cave while excavating for artifacts

[12 pointer]

http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/35385229.html

While this is a tradgedy, there is a cave down the road from my house less than two miles. A few years ago, while being shown this place, someone had came in and dug holes to look for artifats. Is this not illegal????????

[Scott7m]

i'm sure there is some big law against it...... but when there is money involved like for limestone quarried, they'll take miles of cliffline and caves out but that don't matter...

i like how money has a way of changing things. me and a guy who works for mem builta shaker box and have dug in around some overhangs but never in a cave......

the cave on my grandpa's place has been dug to death

[deadaim]

Illegal very much so but a risk some will take....one good clovis or Cumberland point or birdstone can bring 30-60 grand...............

" Cumberland- AMAZING!


Product Information


5” Cumberland - Amazing flutes literally 80-85% both sides.Excellent
mineralization. Beautiful black. Found in Decatur Co., Tennessee...

25,000

[therron258]

just seen it on the news, something like four hours to dig him out!

[reivertom]

I don't think it's illegal if you have permission and it's not a grave site. It is dumb however to dig an 8 foot trench without wall support and get in it.

[raktrakr]

I don't think it's illegal if you have permission and it's not a grave site. It is dumb however to dig an 8 foot trench without wall support and get in it.Nope, its a federal ban

[Tim T]

Nope, its a federal ban


So if I had a cave on my property I couldn't look for goodies? Wow, I never knew this. Oh well, I don't have any caves in my backyard anyway.

[KYHUNTER14]

Illegal very much so but a risk some will take....one good clovis or Cumberland point or birdstone can bring 30-60 grand...............

" Cumberland- AMAZING!


Product Information


5” Cumberland - Amazing flutes literally 80-85% both sides.Excellent
mineralization. Beautiful black. Found in Decatur Co., Tennessee...

25,000


What are these exactly?

[deadaim]

What are these exactly?

Cumberland Point

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/deadaim1967/cumberland2.jpg

Clovis Point

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/deadaim1967/Clovis.jpg

Birdstone

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/deadaim1967/petersburdbirdstone4.jpg


These are the type of things you are hoping to find when you are 8 foot deep in a cave..........its not worth it to be 6 foot under or doing ten to twenty;)

[Scott7m]

So if I had a cave on my property I couldn't look for goodies? Wow, I never knew this. Oh well, I don't have any caves in my backyard anyway.

yeah you should know you don't really own the land, you just pay rent and let the govt tell you what you can and can't do lol

[reivertom]

I know that native graves are federally protected, but when did artifact hunting on private property become illegal?

[WaterDog88]

Would this apply to walking plowed feilds? I've been hunting flint since I was in grade school.

[Scott7m]

i don't think you can rob graves... but i've never heard you couldn't dig for artifacts

[deadaim]

Would this apply to walking plowed feilds? I've been hunting flint since I was in grade school.
No it does not apply to surface finds...........

[deadaim]

i don't think you can rob graves... but i've never heard you couldn't dig for artifacts


http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/MANDATES/INDEX.HTM

[deadaim]

Kentucky Antiquities Act: KRS 164.705 – KRS 164.735; KRS 164.990

Kentucky Heritage Council: KRS 171.3801 – 171.395

Kentucky Cave Protection Act: KRS 433.871 – 433.885

Desecration of Venerated Objects: KRS 525.110

Violating Graves: KRS 525.115

Abuse of a Corpse: KRS 525.120

Notification of Discovery of Human Remains: KRS 72.020

Kentucky Military Heritage Commission: KRS 171.780-788

[Redlined]

I really think these are all referring to desecrating human remains or digging on state and federal land. I may be wrong, but I think you can still dig in cliffs/rockshelters on private land with permission.

[deadaim]

I really think these are all referring to desecrating human remains or digging on state and federal land. I may be wrong, but I think you can still dig in cliffs/rockshelters on private land with permission.

You can UNLESS a federal guy walks up and decides its a "grave";)

[pedigo]

Deadaim is giving yall excellent advice. You can go in a field pick up arrow heads but I have always heard not to dig for them. As far as caves go, I know people used the sell stalagmites and stalgtites and that was banned. I would guess the goverment would consider any artifact from a cave to be from a burial site as the native americans in this area used them for tombs and/or died in the caves while using them for shelter.

[deadaim]

Code Book: Kentucky Revised Statutes
Citation: §164.705 through §164.735
Section Title: Archeology

Summary:

Declares it to be the policy of the commonwealth to preserve archeological sites and objects of antiquity for the public benefit and to limit exploration, excavation and collection of such matters to qualified persons and educational institutions possessing the requisite skills and purpose to add to the general store of knowledge concerning history, archeology and anthropology. Prohibits a person from willfully injuring, destroying or defacing an archeological site or object of antiquity situated on lands owned or leased by the commonwealth or a state agency or a political subdivision of the commonwealth. Requires a person to obtain a permit from the Department of Anthropology at the University of Kentucky before exploring, excavating, appropriating or removing an archeological site or object of antiquity located on such lands, upon recommendation of the agency owning or controlling the land. Directs that permits shall be regularly granted to reputable museums, universities, colleges or other recognized scientific or educational institutions with a view to promoting the knowledge of archeology or anthropology for the public benefit. Requires that permits shall be issued upon such conditions as the department shall deem advisable for maximum effective exploration with a minimum of injury to the surrounding terrain. Directs that each permit shall terminate upon the following December 31, subject to annual renewal on or before the following January 15. Allows the department to revoke a permit at any time upon finding that explorations or excavations authorized by the permit are not being conducted lawfully or properly. Authorizes the department to designate archeological sites and objects of antiquity and cause to be posted signs or markers at the locations thereof. Requires a person who discovers an archeological site or object of antiquity in the course of construction work or otherwise to report such discovery to the department. Enables the department to enter into contracts or cooperative agreements with private landowners relating to the preservation and property exploration of any archeological site or object of antiquity situated on such private land. Authorizes the department to acquire for preservation, with funds available to it for such purposes, an archeological site or object of antiquity.


Primary Topic: Archeological Activities


Secondary Topic:
Permit / Site Investigation Authority

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code Book: Kentucky Revised Statutes
Citation: §164.990
Section Title: Penalties: archeology
Summary:

(1) Declares that a person is guilty of a Class D felony who willfully injures, destroys or defaces an archeological site or object of antiquity situated on lands owned or leased by the commonwealth or a state agency or a political subdivision of the commonwealth or who explores, excavates, appropriates or removes an archeological site or object of antiquity located on such lands without a permit obtained from the Department of Anthropology at the University of Kentucky. Requires that the violator shall forfeit to the state all equipment used in committing the offense.


Primary Topic: Archeological Activities


Secondary Topic:
Violation / Penalty / Enforcement

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code Book: Kentucky Revised Statutes
Citation: §433.873
Section Title: Wrongful disturbance or damage to cave surfaces or material found therein
Summary:

(1)(e) Prohibits a person, without the express, prior written permission of the owner, from willfully and knowingly excavating, removing, destroying, injuring, defacing or disturbing any burial grounds, historic or prehistoric resources, archeological or paleontological site, including fossils, bones, relics, inscriptions, saltpeter works, remains of historical human activity or any other such features that may be found in any cave, except those caves owned by the commonwealth or designated as commonwealth archeological sites or zones and are subject to the provisions of §164.705 through §164.735.


Primary Topic: Archeological Activities


Secondary Topic:
Cave Activity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code Book: Kentucky Revised Statutes
Citation: §433.879
Section Title: Excavation permits; requirements; supervision by state archeologist and Kentucky Heritage Council
Summary:

Requires a person to obtain a permit from the state archeologist prior to excavating or removing any archeological, paleontological, prehistoric or historic feature of a cave, in addition to obtaining the written permission of the land owner pursuant to §433.873. Authorizes the state archeologist to issue such a permit if it is in the best interest of the commonwealth and if the applicant is a historic, scientific or educational institution, professional archeologist or qualified amateur. Directs that such permits shall be issued for a period of two years and may be renewed upon expiration. Requires that all field investigations, exploration or recovery operations undertaken under this section shall be carried out under the general supervision of the state archeologist and the Kentucky Heritage Council and in a manner to ensure that the maximum amount of historic, scientific, archeological and educational information may be recovered and preserved in addition to the physical recovery of objects.

[Fat Tony]

I don't think it's illegal if you have permission and it's not a grave site. It is dumb however to dig an 8 foot trench without wall support and get in it.

Digging in a cave in KY is as illegal as you can get. No gray area.