Your money at work

[Tim Morris]

I was reading my newfound issue of "The Caller" mag from NWTF. This is liable to be contraversial but I just cant stand it, I must speak my peace!!!

Some may know my stand on "Super Fund Groups"[:D][:D][:D]. If not then bare with me!!!

I read that the NWTF is spending $8000.00 on researching, why a turkey gobbles. It is there, and that is the heading. Now, maybe some of you or all of you are saying to yourself right now....Thats exactly what I was wondering and when they find out I will be able to kill more birds and the world will be a better place. My thinking....

This is why I raise hell about this crap!!!!! I care as much about why a turkey gobbles as why he leaves a pile of crap on a oak leave one day verses a maple the next. Come on, I wont speak for everybody, And I know its only 8 grand but this is why I dont agree with NWTF chapters. It is my example of wasted money!!!!



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[JForce]

I agree wholeheartedly. The NWTF has run its intended course. I used to be on the committie of a certain local chapter and believe you me I could tell you some things. What they are getting away with should be illegal.

[Tim Morris]

Im not sure I understand your " critizes" comment there Multi. I am all for the good, and mouthy about the bad.


As for you JFORCE.........Hot damn there are people who believe in TIMUISM!!!!!!
I did not think there was anyone who believed the way I do about NWTF. We have turkeys now!!!
Lets work on something else and not call it the NWTF. I'll give to it if you call it something different!!!



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[dgc4]

There are a lot of times that I feel my dollar is misused. Sometimes the government does this, sometimes it is my school, and sometimes my religious denomination does this. However, just because sometimes these organizations misuse my money does not mean that I won't be a part of them. If I had this attitude I'd be in a real pickle.
All in all the NWTF (DU etc) are good organizations. If they catered to just my needs than this would surely cause chaos, (I would though have a hell of some turkey and duck huntin)

I also do feel that why a turkey gobbles is worth $8,000. There have been certain animals that have had more ridiculous studies than that, and it would even be a logical guess that these studies costed way more than $8000.

[RutNBuck]

i can save them 8k
he gobbles because he can...haha
i agree with dqc4 with his views

i would like to see the NWTF take some of its $$ and offer it to farmers in an effort to have them delay their hay cutting until after June 1
its a shame how many eggs are destroyed by this practice the farmers could use the money to suppliment other food sources such as grain or purchase some already bailed hay.....(i know most hens try to re-nest and some succeed but then you risk late poults going into a possible harsh winter)

on our farm we do not let anyone cut the hay until Mid June

"A wise indian once said,the more you move the less you will see,the less you move the more you will see"

" I live to hunt, but my wife says i may be hunting a place to live"

[2hunt]

I know why a turkey gobbles, so does everyone else, to attract a mate.

Multi, you keep bringing the dove bait up? That was used to band doves to gather information on migration and mortality rates, 30+ states were doing it and it was a federal grant, not KDFWR money. If that's a waste in your opinion, then so be it.

[2hunt]

My guess is that the 20g included the bait and the man hours used for the whole dove banding project. I agree it would be a whole lot of bait.

Sure turkeys will gobble any month of the year, but to attract a hen is the main reason. I've seen them get after some pretty sorry looking decoys, so them crows better watch out too!

Why does a turkey hunter use a call? To attract a turkey? Annoy his/her spouse? Let other hunters know where he is? Call his turkey busting dog back in?

[Hunt n nut]

How much is $8K going to accomplish?? This is what, one guy working on it for 3 months without any expense fund?

I don't care if they do it or not, but $8K looks like someone is just getting paid to listen to turkeys. Not much going to be accomplished on that budget unless other funds are made available from different organizations.

[2hunt]

Maybe it's a research grant to a university. I'd rather see money spent on something with turkeys than something like how moles attract mates. 8g is not a lot of $.

[2hunt]

Me thinks they sniff for molasses? At least all of them but the first one in line.

[kyfowlplay]

As a former local chapter president & your state board of director member, in the late 90's. I can tell you where a lot of YOUR $$$$$'s was spent. It was spent on things you all would not be happy to hear. Don't get me wrong, the NWTF has done some good things, but it has gotten to BIG to FAST. It is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

[P. Beyer]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by kyfowlplay</i>
<br /> It was spent on things you all would not be happy to hear. Don't get me wrong, the NWTF has done some good things, but it has gotten to BIG to FAST. It is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


[:0] Any eloboration?

"It makes no difference whether I got anything; it has to do with how the day was spent"

Fred Bear

[T Rex]

I believe if you are giving money to a organization like this then you should have some type of say about it. But if you continue to give $$ and you dont like what they are doing with your $ then why give them money. I just dont understand that but its your $$$$ not mine.

"Put your game face on boyz, Be a predator"

[GSP]

I know how some of the $$$ is spent. You look at the real details, you will find animal crackers, balloons, clothes pins, eggs, graham crackers and paper plates. I know it is true, cause I buy them each year with your NWTF $$$$$ [:0][:0][:0].
BTW, all those things are used as targets to expose 450 kids that will never have had a chance to shoot without that chance. I will be doing it again this year too. So, next time you ask if it is worth your $$$, remember there is a big chunck that doesn't go toward turkey's. Actually that is why I put my time and trouble into the system.

[Valley Station]

Today,if you want to help in promoting elk hunting and restoration join and donate your money to RMEF.
Thirty years ago, the National Wild Turkey Federation was created by some turkey hunters for wild turkey restoration and was the major reason turkey restoration was such a success.
<u>Turkey restoration is now complete.</u>
NWTF is a major fund raiser and the original cause is complete.
Millions of dollars being spent on everything, but, wild turkey.
"Feed the little children of Bosnia" may be be a worthy cause, but, what does that have to do NWTF.[V]

[schuyler olt]

Kyfowlplay (aka Ed)--I don't know who you are, and I don't remember an Ed on the state board in the late nineties. So I'm calling you out. I worked on all the state superfund budgets in the nineties, and I signed several hundred green forms from 1999 to 2003. I never authorized the expenditure of a single cent that I would not be proud to have published on the front page of the courier journal. And oh by the way, for the last two years EVERY PENNY spent in Kentucky has been published at www.kentuckynwtf.com. Why don't you go there and tell us which ones are inappropriate?

Otherwise, keep your bull to yourself.

[Valley Station]

Multi,
Was behind your house late Saturday morning, some dang trout fishermen where were they weren't suppose to be. No luck.
Sunday mornin' me and four others set up on same ol' bird. Bird got flushed, birds shutup after fly down. Cold, windy ol morning.
No luck, yet.[:)]
Bird was shot in your area Sunday mornin'.

[Tim Morris]

Now Sky, you be nice...... I have heard that from you before have I not.... Let me throw you another one.

I also read about these donations that are being made for.....

THE BRAND NEW NWTF HEADQUARTERS BUILDING!!!!!

WOW, we really need one of those!!!!

Is it not a multi million dollar project?

Lets see if Donald Trump would like to design it so that all of these guys who work there have the best offices and accomadations.

And....... There is a NWTF show that will be on the Outdoor Channel.
This is not a show endorsed by the NWTF.... It is the NWTF!!!
They also have another one if I understand it right that will be on another channel.
Is this where you want your Turkey restoration money going. These shows cant be free.

The Kids I agree with. I would rather it all go to kids. Feed them, clothe them, I dont care what as long as its with them.


Points to ponder!!!



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[Tim Morris]

How about the money that is made every time that you buy a product at Walmart in Louisville or your hometown that has a portion that is donated to the NWTF? Add that to your total!!! Somebody is eatin' steak tonight!!!!



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[BOBCAT]

Everybody go back and read what GSP posted. Some of the stuff may sound silly to some of us but after it is explained in detail to us (like GSP did ) it's not really that bad. I think there should be a couple of "average Joes" on EVERY board that oversees that Fishing and hunting money. ALL of it !!!!!![?]

WESTERN BOBCAT

[schuyler olt]

Tim,

The new headquarters building is a capital campaign. Anyone can donate to it and no membership, Super Fund or other member related money is being used for it.

Around 300,000 net dollars (that which is left after meals, banquet facilities, etc are paid for) were raised in Kentucky each year during my term, and of that approximately $200,000 came directly back to Kentucky to be spent in Kentucky. If you want the exact numbers, write Edgefield and ask for its IRS form 990. That is the return filed each year by a 501(c)(3) with the IRS, and it is an audited return, meaning a CPA has done an audit review of the organization's books and records as opposed to simply preparing the form.

As to the TV shows, there are actually three of them, and "Turkey Call", the first one, has been on the air about ten years. They operate on a monetary profit according to the 990, and actually add money from sponsors that the membership would otherwise have to make up. What's your problem with that?

During my four years Kentucky provided Kentucky kids with over $200,000 in college scholarships. We provided approximately $30,000 to Archery in the Schools, and Nationals just put up another $100,000. We pretty much singlehandedly financed the return and expansion of 4-H shooting in this state. We held almost 80 youth events every year. During my tenure as President I worked with a very willing Commission to institute the youth weekend we just enjoyed. Tim, I didn't see you at the Commission meetings supporting that.

And that's the point. Yes, Valley, we've restored the turkey. But what's the point if we don't protect the hunting rights, the habitat, the traditions, even the second amendment? And just who has been doing that recently? Who do you really expect to do it in the future. You guys don't have to join any organization, but you better start pulling a danged oar instead of dumping on those of us who are.

[littleindian]

The NWTF gives back to the local levels as Sky has said. With out them we wouldn't have any turkeys in the state or serval other states to hunt. In reading some of the other posts, it is like our welfare system. When you need it, you have your hand stuck out, and when things are good you feel you don't need it anymore. WE are 1 generation away from loosing our hunting & shooting heritage. Yes in any organization you can find money spent on things you may not agree with, but they are few and far between. We are blessed with the success of the Wild Turkey restoration. You can see large flocks & feel that we don't need the NWTF anymore but we do. They fight for your hunting rights. What has some other organizaions done for our state at the local level? The NWTF provides scholarships, support to 4-H shooting sports, and helping the disabled get back in the outdoors. What have the others done? ( I won't point fingers & name names but you know who they are . And yes I am a member of those other organizations. I love to turkey hunt & I support the NWTF because without them I wouldn't be allowed to enjoy God's gift to spring.


"It's not what you take, but what you leave behind"

[Tim Morris]

Sweethearts, look at this... It is not my intentions to abolish or degrade into ruinment the NWTF!!! Things are rediculus!!!

How Much is the Building? 1.00? Wasted however much. We dont need it!!!
How much is the tv Shows? 1.00? Wasted however much. We dont need it!!!

How much does it cost to pay all the NWTF's employees? Why?
Wasted letters?

"Excuse me, I know you just gave us 50.00 for your memberships, but that will only pay for 10 seconds of airtime on our tv show that is showing people why turkeys gobble this week."


I am only upset about that kind of crap. Spend our money wisely. A tv show? A building? It is too damn fancy. It was not intended to be this way in the begining. Why now? I will tell you why.

THEY ARE GETTING TOO MUCH MONEY!!!!!
So much that they dont know what to do with it!!!





"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[kyfowlplay]

Tim............. your right it is all about the $$$$. i started with the NWTF about 14yrs, ago. dont get me wrong then the $$$$ were spent on the turkeys. but like you have saied & know it going in all kinds of different ways now. you know you pay for your state pres. to go to the convention each year, i sure he has a good time on the NWTF $$$$. i tell you & Sky were my beef with the NWTF started it about 5 yrs. ago when re-election was up. they (state board) desided to but ballet in the news leater, well i still looking for mine to vote for self. so how was that a fair election ?
and my local chapter not turning all its banquett $$ into the NWTF & it not showing up in the chapter account. saw wrighting on the wall so i pulled out of the NWTF.

[Tim Morris]

Okay there loud mouth. I have had enough. I havent said squat about you or your buddie Sky. Both of you have made smart remarks to hit personally. If you cant discuss it without getting personal then shut up.

You made my point so clear that its unreal!!!!

The NWTF is not a BIG BUSINESS!!!

Well I restate, it is but shouldnt be and that is the problem!!!

That is the PROBLEM!!! Whats worse you ask? People like you who defend it by trying to put people like me down for complaining about it!!!

I dont care how many of anything you or anybody else went to, spent at or whatever you wish to say to make yourself feel better, Thats the other problem, "I did this, I did that, I spent this I know jimbob and he is a good man, I sat here". BLAH BLAH BLAH



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[schuyler olt]

Nothing I like better than arguing with two people who don't know the facts.

Tim--I doubt you've been to headquarters. I have, on several occasions. Those folks are absolutely packed in like sardines and, believe me, nobody has a grand office. Keck's office is about 8X10. Besides, what business is it of yours if I choose to voluntarily donate money to enhance the headquarters? Nobody is asking you to spend a cent, and just to make sure you understand---NOT A CENT RAISED BY VOLUNTEERS IS BEING SPENT. Now quit bashing what you don't understand.

Kyfowlplay--Next time you decide to bash me you'd better have your facts straight. The NWTF has never paid a single expense for me, travel or otherwise. Under the bylaws, the state president is entitled to be given travel and lodging expenses and registration fees to the national convention. I did not take advantage of that, choosing instead to pay that out of my pocket, which I did. And I never sought reimbursement for anything else EXCEPT I asked to be repaid when I personally advanced the state chapter's dues to the League of Kentucky Sportsmen.

Now, every year I attended about twenty banquets, all of which I paid at least a dinner price. Rarely did I leave a banquet without buying something. Those banquets were in every part of the state. I made numerous trips to Frankfort on behalf of the Federation. I travelled to Edgefield to meet with the biologists there concerning conservation easements. I actively participated in LKS events. I was at the Archery competitions. I attended almost every district federation meeting. I attended dozens of JAKES days and WITO events and Wheelin' Sportsmens activities. I served on the National Shoot Committee.

ALL ON MY OWN NICKEL.

Oh yeah--when we tried to save money on our election so we could spend more on the ground, there was a problem. So during my two terms, we fixed the gripe Ed complains about. So five years later, why are you still acting like a baby? And what else about me do you wish to criticize? How about the fact that during my four years Kentucky led the nation in EVERY youth-oriented category. So maybe I didn't lead an organization of people dedicated to improving things for those who will come behind us.

So Ed and Tim, what have you done for conservation the last four years?

[RDL270]

Sky, I for one appreciate your dedication and leadership you have provided for not only the NWTF but other convservation groups. I know firsthand the long hours and sacrifice that has to happen.

I also contribute in a monatary way to many wildlife and charity organizations. I do not have privy to thier books and am sure they some expenditures I would question. I also question how my tax dollare is spent. BUT, I also see the good the organization is providing or I wouldn't contribute to it. I like to think that the dollars I sent in go towards the parts I like and believe in. It takes money to generate money. I would venture to guess, if you saw your favorite organization being run out of a trailer or a shack you would be up in arms saying the money was being siphoned off. You would not put much faith in the way that organization was being run. IMHO.

[HardinCountyHunter]

I have only been serious about turkey hunting for the last four years. However, every one of those years, I consider joining NWTF. Then I listen to the infighting and bickering from folks who are members of local chapters or folks who post on this board and other boards. All of this just gives me a headache. It seems to me that this group is coming apart here in Kentucky and that is why I haven't joined. I know this group has played a huge role, along with the KDFWR, to get our turkey flock to the resource that I and others enjoy today. However, if I want to listen to fighting and bickering, I can go home and hang out with my wife.

Salad...What food eats!

[schuyler olt]

Hardin,

It's funny, but there really isn't as much bickering as you might think across the state. There is almost none between chapters. When we have it, it seems to occur within a banquet committee at the local level. Either somebody gets an ego, or a couple folks get crosswise or, on occasion, there may be a little sumthin' goin on, whatever. And that kind of thing happens in everything from churches to rotary clubs to Kiwanis to the Ronald McDonald House.

When the women's program started a few years ago, there was a great deal of resistance to it, and there still is in some areas. On the other hand, there are people who think it's a fantastic program. There isn't one thing the NWTF or any other conservation organization does that somebody doesn't love it and somebody doesn't hate it.

I'm amused though, when somebody bitches about giving the NWTF $20 and then goes and buys $200 worth of Scent-Lok. One's doing food plots and scholarships and the other is doing ?????. Obviously, the manufacturers give the organizations wads of money for which we are very grateful, but they are making quite a tidy profit in many instances. When Bass Pro can sponsor a Nextel Cup RACE and Realtree can sponsor a cup car, you begin to worry if the bubble is getting blown too largely.

[Birdman]

I was a member of NWTF several years ago, or I should say I was a paying member. I've never turkey hunted and have no intention of doing so. I hunt grouse. I paid dues to this organization for one reason, to help other people have the opportunity to hunt turkey. I have a lot of friends that love to turkey hunt, and because of the NWTF they have plenty of birds to choose from. Because we have great numbers of turkeys is why we should back this organization to the hilt.
Begrudging any group for improving conditions is nothing more than jealousy. If some of you that are complaining about this group, were in charge, I'm betting you would be infavor of building this building. And if you had the opportunity to hunt on their show, you would be the first in line.
People that work for the betterment of others, has a hard road to hold because of jealous people. If you want a say in how your money is spent, get involved. Run for office, hell run for President. And see how much you piss and moan.

[Tim Morris]

I have got just a few words again that I guess sky did not hear...


<font size="6"><b>BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!</b></font id="size6">



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[Tim Morris]

<font size="6"><b>I did this, I did that, I am this , I am that, I spend this, I have that.</b></font id="size6">



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[Tim Morris]

Enough already, I dont care what you did or how you did!!! You do not impress me with your exact information, your expression of money that you are overflowing with, or your desire to prove that you invented mother nature. I started by making what I feel is a clear point of wasted money. Read post #1. Did I say you did it. No! I did not.



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[Tim Morris]

Oh and I almost forgot, I buy a hunting and fishing license every year, I kill only what I eat and I eat only as much as I am allowed to kill. I did not know that the law was to join every organization that exist so that I could brag about it and what I had done. Furthermore, I havent the time in life because I am too busy with work and family trying to support those who need me the most, instead of trying to impress the world with the most worthless crap of hierarchy!!!!

While you are off to your meetings, I would be more than happy to mow your lawn, or clean your gutters so that your pocket book inst so heavy!!!

I also almost forgot to tell you that while you are so busy at all of these organizations, you may not be aware of the fact that if you bend your arm too far it will break, be carefull while patting yourself on the back. And thank you for doing all these wonderfull deeds.



"If it bites my hook, It will be good to cook."

[N2MyWake]

You guys are killing me. This thread has grown pointless. It's one thing to argue facts....Someone please kill this thread.

Western Kentucky Boy

[GSP]

Guess many are wondering why this is locked. I locked it early this morning after deleting several replies using discriptions that will not be tolerated on this site. I forwarded them to the site Admin for consideration.
There is no need to name call in any conversation. I know things get heated, folks get bent out of shape and I know I am guilty at times myself. Even with that said, things can not become out of control. That exactly is where this topic went. Hopefully no major offense was taken by anyone before the topics were deleted. Also anyone considering this locking of this topic as a form of censorship my PM me their concerns. The site Admin has asked me to Delete this topic and I will tomorrow.

[Big58cal]

Tim, I used to half-way listen to some of the stuff that you had to say. After your last bombardment of useless statements, I don't think that there is anything that you have to say that I want to hear. There's a difference between voicing an opinion and belitting people in public. From what I've seen, if you would like to continue using this site and forum, you should probably clean it up a little and be less offensive.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">HardinCountyHunter Posted - 04/07/2004 : 08:44:00 AM
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However, if I want to listen to fighting and bickering, I can go home and hang out with my wife. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> When I don't get enough from my wife, I come here. Lord knows there's enough on here to satisfy any gaps in my life!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">schuyler olt Posted - 04/07/2004 : 09:25:34 AM
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I'm amused though, when somebody bitches about giving the NWTF $20 and then goes and buys $200 worth of Scent-Lok. One's doing food plots and scholarships and the other is doing ?????. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Sky, I think that the difference is that the guy who buys the Scent-Loc suit knows what it will do for his money. If I buy $50 worth of clover seed, or a $300 bow, I know that the seed or bow is going to do what I want it to do, as long as I do my part. With some people, what they have seen in the past from some organizations (not necessarily the NWTF either), they don't trust giving their money or (as in my case), the organization isn't doing what they think should be done. Nothing personal, that's just the way that some people see it.

The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

[P. Beyer]

why not just keep it locked? I was happy to see it that way.

"It makes no difference whether I got anything; it has to do with how the day was spent"

Fred Bear

[Valley Station]

Differences in opinions, are why turkeys were given spurrs.[:)]

[schuyler olt]

Big, I think you and I are making the same point--folks spend where they see worth, value and/or need, and to each his own.

[dgc4]

If someone does not want to support the NWTF thats fine, but if it were not for them then they would not be able to turkey hunt in Kentucky.

[kygoose]

Thanks Schuyler, for all the work that you & others have done to make next week special.