Burning Down The House: What Caused Our Economic Crisis?

[maxcam]

Now for some of you this video might go a bit fast but there is a pause button you can use so that you can then check the facts as they appear.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4

[maxcam]

There have been a few folks that want to blame President Bush for the economic problems we are faced with......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5z9lD4C2Io&feature=iv&annotation_id=event_652267

and if that wasnt enough to make you absolutely sick....






TO ALL MY FRIENDS....LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE........FYI only.




George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.




A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) American's were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!...

But American's wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress and yes--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the PAST YEAR:




1) Consumer confidence has plummeted;
2) Gasoline is now over $3/gal!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION DOLLARS and prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT
PORTFOLIOS!


YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE...AND WE SURE GOT IT! ...




REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY CONGRESS.




AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE BETTER? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.




NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS!!!!




JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?

[kycrat]

the mccain campain is getting despirate! reminds me of the swift vote veterians movement against kerry in 04. the smoke and mirrors trick from the republican machine is over, the country just isn't buying the fast talk and scare tactics anymore. there is a reason this doesn't show up on cnn/fox/msn it has no credability. those news stations make money on advertisement and the closer the election is the more people watch and the more advertising they get to do. the conspiracy tactics doesn't hold water, but it does show despiration.

[grouser68]

the mccain campain is getting despirate! reminds me of the swift vote veterians movement against kerry in 04. the smoke and mirrors trick from the republican machine is over, the country just isn't buying the fast talk and scare tactics anymore. there is a reason this doesn't show up on cnn/fox/msn it has no credability. those news stations make money on advertisement and the closer the election is the more people watch and the more advertising they get to do. the conspiracy tactics doesn't hold water, but it does show despiration. It's been a conspiracy theory at the rate of about 3 a day against Obama for the past week. This particular one was on here last week, Maxcam just must have missed it. I think it actually came out a year or two ago, look at the gas prices! Ok, for those from New York City they may have been that price last year, but I find that hard to believe but will take a man at his word. They definately were'nt that here a year ago.

Look for many more of these in the days to come, but they wont hold water either.

[maxcam]

Should have known you two didnt know how to pause the video and use google.........:rolleyes:

Hey why dont you guys see if you can get down to Hawaii and find your fearless leaders birth certificate.......Although I would recommend you save some time and start your hunt in Kenya......

[grouser68]

Should have known you two didnt know how to pause the video and use google.........:rolleyes:

Hey why dont you guys see if you can get down to Hawaii and find your fearless leaders birth certificate.......Although I would recommend you save some time and start your hunt in Kenya......Look for many more of these in the days to come, but they wont hold water either.


See!

[CUZZIN]

Smoking mirrows slid of the hand. They always got an under the table, secret agent that knows some super secret on the democratic canidate right before election time.

This is he same group that made a congressional medal of honor winner into the bad guy, while promoting a AWOL air national guard troop to lead our army.

Even i'm smart enough to see through this crap!

[maxcam]

I posted my facts either post up your own or refute the ones that I posted.......

Or how was it you so elliquently put it grouser.....SHUT YOUR SUCK!

[maxcam]

Well I see it didnt take long for Shimp to make it to the party......

[grouser68]

I posted my facts either post up your own or refute the ones that I posted.......

Or how was it you so elliquently put it grouser.....SHUT YOUR SUCK!No Maxi, it's quit running your suck! I am not going to look up a thing Max, why should I? Everything that has come out in the last week has been proven false, your latest conspiracy theory will be also in a couple of days.

I have a couple of questions for you Max.

1.Why is this board bombarded with anything negative anyone can find on Obama, whether true or false?

2. Who's mind does anyone expect to change with these threads? Who is your target audience?

[Art]

I've got a lot of respect for our democrat brothers here, but just like I wonder with some of the far right guys here, how far will you go to prop up your man? Do you guys honestly believe Obama is perfect or are you just taking up for him based on party lines? I'm just talking....:D

[kycrat]

maxi you wont facts lets go back to the basics. you supported bush in 00, you supported bush in 04, you have supported every republican that has came across the board since the nra told you democrats are going to take your guns, and that had to be so because if it wasn't it wouldn't have been said. your more loyal than my birddog.

like i said going back to simplicity, look at the clinton (democrat) ecnomy and look at bush (republican) economy. FACT is, your boy, who you fell out with when he was going to cost mccain's election has murdered our economy. he has done this by paying more attention abroad that he has at home. he has payed more attention to their people than our people. THE ECONOMY HAS DONE BETTER UNDER DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS! that is a fact.

kenya no, but i would love a lion hunt in south africa.

[Art]

maxi you wont facts lets go back to the basics. you supported bush in 00, you supported bush in 04, you have supported every republican that has came across the board since the nra told you democrats are going to take your guns, and that had to be so because if it wasn't it wouldn't have been said. your more loyal than my birddog.

like i said going back to simplicity, look at the clinton (democrat) ecnomy and look at bush (republican) economy. FACT is, your boy, who you fell out with when he was going to cost mccain's election has murdered our economy. he has done this by paying more attention abroad that he has at home. he has payed more attention to their people than our people. THE ECONOMY HAS DONE BETTER UNDER DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS! that is a fact.

kenya no, but i would love a lion hunt in south africa.

If the economy is Bush's fault, why is the rest of the world economy tanking too? Why was your boy Barney Frank banging a man at Fannie Mae when he should have been doing his job?

[maxcam]

No Maxi, it's quit running your suck! I am not going to look up a thing Max, why should I? Everything that has come out in the last week has been proven false, your latest conspiracy theory will be also in a couple of days.

I have a couple of questions for you Max.

1.Why is this board bombarded with anything negative anyone can find on Obama, whether true or false?

2. Who's mind does anyone expect to change with these threads? Who is your target audience?

Its called viral spreading of information.....

[maxcam]

If the economy is Bush's fault, why is the rest of the world economy tanking too? Why was your boy Barney Frank banging a man at Fannie Mae when he should have been doing his job?

Now Art the fact that Barney bangs other men is no big revelation......:rolleyes:

[maxcam]

maxi you wont facts lets go back to the basics. you supported bush in 00, you supported bush in 04, you have supported every republican that has came across the board since the nra told you democrats are going to take your guns, and that had to be so because if it wasn't it wouldn't have been said. your more loyal than my birddog.

like i said going back to simplicity, look at the clinton (democrat) ecnomy and look at bush (republican) economy. FACT is, your boy, who you fell out with when he was going to cost mccain's election has murdered our economy. he has done this by paying more attention abroad that he has at home. he has payed more attention to their people than our people. THE ECONOMY HAS DONE BETTER UNDER DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS! that is a fact.

kenya no, but i would love a lion hunt in south africa.


You need to recheck your facts .....Go back and look at the Carter Administration......Then look at the Bush economy before the Democrats took control of the legislature.....

[Willie]

If you guys don't believe that one, how about Saturday Night Live?

When have they ever steered you Dems wrong?

http://msunderestimated.com/SNLBailoutSkit.wmv

[barney]

Now Art the fact that Barney (Frank) bangs other men is no big revelation......:rolleyes:
.............

[kycrat]

sorry art, it would appear i'm trying to make a prop for my man. with the exception of mayor julioni and mccain obama was CRAP. for a true economy saver we need leadership that knows how to make BIG $$$. perot and romney both have so much of it they don't want anymore, all they want now is for there name to last forever and money wont buy that. i don't know about the other issues but men like that could lead us into good economical times. they didn't make their money buying up 700 billion in bad loans.

my honest opion in obama, i belive when given a choice he could accidently trip and bump his head on the right button. mccain is too short he would just fall in the floor and get up and press the wrong one.

[Art]

sorry art, it would appear i'm trying to make a prop for my man. with the exception of mayor julioni and mccain obama was CRAP. for a true economy saver we need leadership that knows how to make BIG $$$. perot and romney both have so much of it they don't want anymore, all they want now is for there name to last forever and money wont buy that. i don't know about the other issues but men like that could lead us into good economical times. they didn't make their money buying up 700 billion in bad loans.

my honest opion in obama, i belive when given a choice he could accidently trip and bump his head on the right button. mccain is too short he would just fall in the floor and get up and press the wrong one.


Well, maybe if this was all going down during the primaries then things would have been different.

[kycrat]

Well, maybe if this was all going down during the primaries then things would have been different.you still have to choose from wat we have, mccain runs on the word CHANGE. he's been there for 38 years, did he have a revolation?

[Art]

you still have to choose from wat we have, mccain runs on the word CHANGE. he's been there for 38 years, did he have a revolation?

How much power has he had as a senator? Why hasn't Obama been able to do ANYTHING in his 140 working days if he's so great? I wouldn't cast stones at McCain as an Obama supporter.

[maxcam]

you still have to choose from wat we have, mccain runs on the word CHANGE. he's been there for 38 years, did he have a revolation?

Yeah and in those 38 years McCain has recieved very little money from lobbyist from Freddie and Fannie while your boy has recieved the most in just a year and a half..........

What do Jerry McQuire and Obama have in common......They both demand that you show them the money!

[CUZZIN]

Well I see it didnt take long for Shimp to make it to the party......Hey max you remind me alot of john,when you cant think of any thing intelligent to say you can always insult:rolleyes:

[kycrat]

maxi, they said the dow fell faster today than mccain's pole number's after a sarah palin interview.

[Art]

maxi, they said the dow fell faster today than mccain's pole number's after a sarah palin interview.

It because Obama's lead is growing. Remind me again WHY the dow fallout coincides so well with the change in the polls?

[kycrat]

art, trying to carry on an educated conversation with you and uneducated one's with others is difficult but i'm trying. obama hasn't done crap and niether has mccain. they are individual senators. the president is one man, and holds the same athority as the entire house and entire sentate. our 3 executive branchs of goverment. HE IS THE MAN. and he is the man that gets the blame. both canidates records reflect their positions. obama doesn't have many he's not been there very long. i'm not arguing he's better that mccain, i just think he has the possability. i know what mccain is and it's not "CHANGE" it's the same old s**t that has us where we are today.

now be real, if freddy or fanny offered you money wouldn't you take it???

[Art]

art, trying to carry on an educated conversation with you and uneducated one's with others is difficult but i'm trying. obama hasn't done crap and niether has mccain. they are individual senators. the president is one man, and holds the same athority as the entire house and entire sentate. our 3 executive branchs of goverment. HE IS THE MAN. and he is the man that gets the blame. both canidates records reflect their positions. obama doesn't have many he's not been there very long. i'm not arguing he's better that mccain, i just think he has the possability. i know what mccain is and it's not "CHANGE" it's the same old s**t that has us where we are today.

now be real, if freddy or fanny offered you money wouldn't you take it???

With all due respect, any semblance of an educated conversation has yet to occur in this thread. You're just funneling away any responsibility when the blame shifts to anyone who's name has a "D" in front of it. You're all over it when the blame is pointed at a "R" though.

You seem to blame Bush for our current state, and yes, he is partially to blame. However, he did not have as of a direct role in this fiasco as did some of your democrat hero's, i.e Barney "the muddy" Frank who TOTALLY refuses to admit anything was his fault even though he was telling Americans to buy stock in Fannie and Freddie just 3 months ago...

Potential? I don't know. I think they both have the potential to do some good but what about the bad? There's PLENTY of potential there for Obama.

[mgpatty]

art, trying to carry on an educated conversation with you and uneducated one's with others is difficult but i'm trying. obama hasn't done crap and niether has mccain. they are individual senators. the president is one man, and holds the same athority as the entire house and entire sentate. our 3 executive branchs of goverment. HE IS THE MAN. and he is the man that gets the blame. both canidates records reflect their positions. obama doesn't have many he's not been there very long. i'm not arguing he's better that mccain, i just think he has the possability. i know what mccain is and it's not "CHANGE" it's the same old s**t that has us where we are today.

now be real, if freddy or fanny offered you money wouldn't you take it???

I gather from your postings that you support Obama because you believe he will improve the lives of all Americans. Could you please offer 4 or 5 ideas that Obama has proposed that will improve the lives of all citizens, including you and I. Most of the supporters of Obama defend their pick by using words like 'I feel....' or 'I believe....', or they always bring up Bush (--->Bush isn't running<---). It would be really nice if someone could tie some of these proposals with actual actions that Obama has taken during his career in the senate (albeit a short career).
As far as Freddy Mac or Fanny Mae (as well as credit card companies and other lending institutions) offering people money and folks accepting it, well appartently ALOT of people did in fact accept that money. That is, in large part, to blame for the poor economic conditions that we ALL are experiencing right now. The sad fact is that many of those folks felt no amount of personal responsiblity. When I purchase my home, I was approved for ALOT more than I actually spent. However, I knew the 'free' money I was about to borrow was going to be repaid by ME.

[yote hunter]

Smoking mirrows slid of the hand. They always got an under the table, secret agent that knows some super secret on the democratic canidate right before election time.

This is he same group that made a congressional medal of honor winner into the bad guy, while promoting a AWOL air national guard troop to lead our army.

Even i'm smart enough to see through this crap!
typical liberal that thinks he knows facts .who are you saying was the congressional medal of honor winner?john kerry?would you like to wager $1000 on that?the only thing your boy kerry did was go back to america early and tell lies about his fellow soldiers.

[Wildcat]

Smoking mirrows slid of the hand. They always got an under the table, secret agent that knows some super secret on the democratic canidate right before election time.

This is he same group that made a congressional medal of honor winner into the bad guy, while promoting a AWOL air national guard troop to lead our army.

Even i'm smart enough to see through this crap!

Pray tell which Medal of Honor winner are you talking about????

[Wildcat]

the president is one man, and holds the same athority as the entire house and entire sentate.

Not true, not true at all.

There are limits set in the US Constitution for each branch of govt. The President does NOT hold the same authority as the entire House and Senate.

[yote hunter]

obamas trying to meddle in iraq even before he is elected.trying to derail bush covertlyand our soldiers.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/10/obama-sought-to-sway-iraqis-on-bush-deal/

[Manzanita]

Exhibit A:
From the New York Times dated September 30, 1999 - Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9c0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F9582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

Below are some excerpts for those with shorter attention spans:

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

[Willie]

Maybe this can explain it to you all..

This is an article written by Charlie Reese, a former columnist for the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper. Very interesting perspective on the state of our Nation!


545 PEOPLE

By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Marines are in IRAQ , it's because they want them in IRAQ .

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

*************************************************

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it is up to you, though you appear to have several choices.


1. You can send this to everyone in your address book, and hope they do something about it.


2. You can agree to vote against everyone that is currently in office, knowing that the process will take several years.


3. You can decide to run for office yourself and agree to do the job properly.


4. Lastly, you can sit back and do nothing, or re-elect the current bunch

[raktrakr]

you still have to choose from wat we have, mccain runs on the word CHANGE. he's been there for 38 years, did he have a revolation?I think thats 28 years not 38? Lets not get into the "years in Washington" when in fact Biden and Pelosi and a lot others that are backing BO have been there just as long and yet they've done nothing to ghange a thing. Now all of a sudden they want change? BO is nothing more than the same liberal garbage thats been in Washington all along, he just has a way of making you believe hes not with his smooth talking. I think a lot of people should read his book and get a feel of what BO is really all about

[Semp]

One thing is for certain about Obama. He hates guns and has voted every time for gun bans, gun restrictions and tax increases on guns and ammo.

If he gets elected, get used to hunting with a spear 'cause ya ain't gonna have your guns long.

That is reason enough not to vote for Barrack Hussein Obama.

[kycrat]

hey guys i've already said, objectivey viewing, yes i believe obama is the better of the 2 choices. how will obama will help our lives, "i believe" (i'm not a fortune teller) he can make better desissions than mccain. you guys on the other hand are not objective. you think every dem is after your guns, after all that's what the NRA told you too think. most american's don't hunt, but don't really care if we hunt. dick chaney did more damage to the way people view hunting in one day then every dem combined in the past 50 years. TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS GUY'S!

[maxcam]

This is he same group that made a congressional medal of honor winner into the bad guy, while promoting a AWOL air national guard troop to lead our army.

Even i'm smart enough to see through this crap!

Cuz you remind me alot of Barrack, when you dont know what to say you can bets a line of BS is about to follow........:rolleyes:

[maxcam]

hey guys i've already said, objectivey viewing, yes i believe obama is the better of the 2 choices. how will obama will help our lives, "i believe" (i'm not a fortune teller) he can make better desissions than mccain. you guys on the other hand are not objective. you think every dem is after your guns, after all that's what the NRA told you too think. most american's don't hunt, but don't really care if we hunt. dick chaney did more damage to the way people view hunting in one day then every dem combined in the past 50 years. TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS GUY'S!

Really....You honestly believe Obama is capable of making better decisions?

So you think associations with Rev Wright, William Ayers, Rezko, Farrakan and Khalid Al-Mansour are good decisions?

Then you have the audacity to ask that we take our blinders off? PULEEEEEZE..............

[BShooter]

hey guys i've already said, objectivey viewing, yes i believe obama is the better of the 2 choices. how will obama will help our lives, "i believe" (i'm not a fortune teller) he can make better desissions than mccain. you guys on the other hand are not objective. you think every dem is after your guns, after all that's what the NRA told you too think. most american's don't hunt, but don't really care if we hunt. dick chaney did more damage to the way people view hunting in one day then every dem combined in the past 50 years. TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS GUY'S!

Maxcam nailed it on obamas ability to make good decisions. Every dem is not after our guns - just a majority of them in the senate and congress. Look at their voting records. obamas voting record in the Illinois state senate was always anti-gun regardless of what he says now. The record is there for you to check and it is clear. The NRA does not tell us what to think, it is not hard to see how each party always votes. It is not just about hunting, it is freedom and our 2nd Amendment rights. The NRA is a strong voice to help ensure this right is not lost.

[mgpatty]

hey guys i've already said, objectivey viewing, yes i believe obama is the better of the 2 choices. how will obama will help our lives, "i believe" (i'm not a fortune teller) he can make better desissions than mccain. you guys on the other hand are not objective. you think every dem is after your guns, after all that's what the NRA told you too think. most american's don't hunt, but don't really care if we hunt. dick chaney did more damage to the way people view hunting in one day then every dem combined in the past 50 years. TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS GUY'S!

Not to sound harsh, but objectively speaking you shouldn't base your voting habits around what you 'believe' or 'feel'. At the very least, one should have a clear understanding of the issues and where the candidates stand on them. Obama's stance on the second amendment (which, by the way, doesn't have anything to do with hunting;)) has been clearly stated. He doesn't believe it is a individual right. He believes it refers to the state's right. Furthermore, a majority of Democrats (along with some Republicans) in Congress believe it refers to a state right. In the view of many, this is a very dangerous threat to the principles that our founding fathers set forth. Couple this with some of the political beliefs that Obama has espoused before and it becomes clear to many Americans that he can't be trusted with the highest elected office in America.

[Buford]

If you blame the president then you have a pretty poor understanding of government.
Blame goes first on Fannie and Freddy.
Then on Fed for the ridiculously low rates that fueled the cheap money binge.
Then, beginning with Carter, on the dems, ending with Barney Fag and Chris Dodd, for completing the "houses and credit for people who havent earned it" concept.
Enjoy your whiner economics outcome.

[Art]

If you blame the president then you have a pretty poor understanding of government.
Blame goes first on Fannie and Freddy.
Then on Fed for the ridiculously low rates that fueled the cheap money binge.
Then, beginning with Carter, on the dems, ending with Barney Fag and Chris Dodd, for completing the "houses and credit for people who havent earned it" concept.
Enjoy your whiner economics outcome.


Me and some buddies were having a political discussion last night over some drinks and we came to this conclusion... There is no such thing as reality in American anymore, just perceived reality. Obviously Bush is not to blame for the financial crisis, but if enough people believe he is then it BECOMES reality.
If you can't make people form their own opinions based on facts, then what good are the facts? Facts are no longer relevant.

[barney]

Me and some buddies were having a political discussion last night over some drinks and we came to this conclusion... There is no such thing as reality in American anymore, just perceived reality. Obviously Bush is not to blame for the financial crisis, but if enough people believe he is then it BECOMES reality.
If you can't make people form their own opinions based on facts, then what good are the facts? Facts are no longer relevant.
Ain't that the truth!

Right now people should have their very highest approval rating for Bush and congress..................Especially Bush, he has finally manned up and got oil prices dropping like a rock!:D

[daking]

A couple of random thoughts:

Could the present market run be due to institutional and big investor fear that Obama might win and tax capital gains as ordinary income? Could it be a fear that Obama's socialist proclivities would manifest themselves as draconian control over markets and investor money?

Maybe that's why it's important to look at Obama's "kitchen cabinet". Despite the protestations to the contrary, his association with Bill Ayers and Kathleen Dohrn are well documented. Leave aside, for a minute, the fact that they were mad bombers in the sixties and seventies. Let's consider the fact that if they're pissing in Obama's ear, they're suggesting socialistic policy. Look at what Ayers has written about juvenile justice and the rights of children versus parents in his professional capacity. He's going to have Obama's ear. That thought should scare the bejesus out of you.

Maybe it's important to look at the well-documented 20 year religious oddessey that Obama took with Wright. Either he believed the black separatist preaching of Wright (who has characterized white people as the devil and took the name of his God in vain in condemning America), or Obama went to the church to gain street cred. If he believed any of Wright's stuff, he's dangerous. If he went for appearnace sake, he's a hypocrite and is playing his own people for suckers. Either way, that relationship DOES matter.

There's a widely distributed video clip of Louis Farrakahn where he says about Obama "the Messiah is speaking". While no one has said anything about a close friendship or any relationship between Farrakahn and Obama, for one of the most racially divisive people in the country to give such a ringing endorsement of Obama is not a good sign.

He did do a land deal with Tony Rezko and he did represent Rezko's company, despite Obama's protestations to the contrary. Rezko's in jail for robbing the government blind and buying politicians. Obama (again despite his protestations otherwise) has taken a great deal of advice from Franklin Raines and Jim Jones, both guys who cooked the books at Fannie Mae (to the point of forging back-dated documents) to juice up their bonuses. Both of them are paying back 20 million in bonuses they essentially stole from Fannie.

ACORN and Project Vote are sister organizations. Obama's "community organizing" was for Project Vote. There is on Youtube a clip of him praising ACORN. He has represented ACORN. ACORN is under investigation for fraudulently registering voters in 12 states.

All of these things are amply doucmented by various news organizations. To say that they're untrue is ignoring the truth. Obama has formed "truth squads" to attempt to suppress any discussion of these issues. He's recruited elected law-enforcement officials (typically attornies general) to apply pressure on people who air any of these issues by threatening them with slander or libel lawsuits. Obama's lawyers sent a letter to every station that the NRA bought air time to run its anti-Obama ad, threatening them with lawsuits and complaints to the FCC if the run the NRA ads. Of course, the NRA won't buckle, but if you owned a television station and you had to have a federal license and this guy might well appoint the guy who approves your license, you might think twice about crossing him, no? He's supported an immediate withdrawl of the troops from Iraq, but met with Iraqi leaders last summer and tried to convince them not to go along with the present agreed draw-down until he was elected. Again, all of this has been reported by various news organizations who actually fact-check stuff. Denial of its veracity is disingenuous and foolish.

All of this begs a very simple question. Why is Obama so desparate to make sure the voters don't get a good look at his past, his friends and his associates? Why would he threaten people to not broadast what's well documented and true? In short, what's he hiding?

Let's face it. He has no record on which to run. His entire campaign is "hope" and "change". Look at his website. His campaign makes lot of promises, such as 4 grand for every kid to go to college. That's a lot of four grands he's going to hand out and it's got to come from somewhere. He says that he'll only raise taxes on the rich. Well, guys, what's rich? It's a moving target. On another thread here, someone was discussing the trials and tribulations of living on 80K a year. The average household income in Kentucky is half that. So to the 80K a year guy, he probably thinks the guy making 160 K is farting through silk, while the guy with Kentucky's average household income probably looks at our 80K guy Daddy Warbucks. In order for him to do half of the things he promises on his website, I got a feeling he's going to agree with the 40K guy and decide our 80K guy is rich and his taxes are going up.

You can judge a candidate's fitness in a number of ways. His record is important. Obama has very little and what he does have does not bode well for the US. You can judge him by the company he keeps. Of course, Obama's done everything possible to keep that under wraps. You can judge him on his plan. Since his stated plan is hope and change, he really doesn't have one. Hope is what you have when you don't have a plan. Change can be good or it can be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

There's a ton of discontent in this country today. Our markets are AFU. There's a lot of finger-pointing across both sides of the aisle, but it's bigger than that. We've seen these things before and we'll see them again. Most serious economists (not the talking heads on NBCCBSABC) believe that the allowing markets to run freely with little intervention are the safest and best bet. That's not what Obama is preaching. They also believe that raising taxes during such an economy is throwing a drowning man an anchor. Obama supports raising taxes. People want to blame the present administration, but the seeds for every economic collapse are sown during the very best of times. Further, if you were to plot the performance of the US economy as a sine wave, there would be periodic peaks and valleys. this deep valley corresponds with an irrationally high peak a few years ago. If you ever run for President, study that curve well and run as it starts running uphill above the base line and make sure your enemy wins office when it's beginning to turn from its peak so he ends up in the valley. Few seem to like the war (and let's face it, if you truly like war you probably are a little twisted), but there is great disagreement over its necessity. The most important thing now is the end game. Obama's end game seems to be keep 'em over there until I get into office and then bring 'em all home so that I can be a hero. Hardly a plan of military genius.

I know we're all partisan. I get a little weary of watching the same simplistic arguments going back and forth. I'm certainly no expert, but I watch this stuff pretty damn carefully. I'm making my decision for whom to vote not based on skin color, a middleeastern middle name or because Bill Ayers used to be a mad bomber. I'm making it based on the fact that he's got a thin record, he's real adamant about people not getting to the bottom of his actions or associations and because his plan simply stinks. He will give us change. Just remember going from having money to being broke is a change. Dying is a change. Getting cancer is a change. Not all change is good. Sometimes the devil known is one hell of a lot better than the devil unknown. Hope is not a plan. It's what you've got to do if you don't have a plan.

[CUZZIN]

Cuz you remind me alot of Barrack, when you dont know what to say you can bets a line of BS is about to follow........:rolleyes:Thanks so much for that great line of wisdom,I try very hard:D

[Ky'sFinest]

A couple of random thoughts:

Could the present market run be due to institutional and big investor fear that Obama might win and tax capital gains as ordinary income? Could it be a fear that Obama's socialist proclivities would manifest themselves as draconian control over markets and investor money?

Maybe that's why it's important to look at Obama's "kitchen cabinet". Despite the protestations to the contrary, his association with Bill Ayers and Kathleen Dohrn are well documented. Leave aside, for a minute, the fact that they were mad bombers in the sixties and seventies. Let's consider the fact that if they're pissing in Obama's ear, they're suggesting socialistic policy. Look at what Ayers has written about juvenile justice and the rights of children versus parents in his professional capacity. He's going to have Obama's ear. That thought should scare the bejesus out of you.

Maybe it's important to look at the well-documented 20 year religious oddessey that Obama took with Wright. Either he believed the black separatist preaching of Wright (who has characterized white people as the devil and took the name of his God in vain in condemning America), or Obama went to the church to gain street cred. If he believed any of Wright's stuff, he's dangerous. If he went for appearnace sake, he's a hypocrite and is playing his own people for suckers. Either way, that relationship DOES matter.

There's a widely distributed video clip of Louis Farrakahn where he says about Obama "the Messiah is speaking". While no one has said anything about a close friendship or any relationship between Farrakahn and Obama, for one of the most racially divisive people in the country to give such a ringing endorsement of Obama is not a good sign.

He did do a land deal with Tony Rezko and he did represent Rezko's company, despite Obama's protestations to the contrary. Rezko's in jail for robbing the government blind and buying politicians. Obama (again despite his protestations otherwise) has taken a great deal of advice from Franklin Raines and Jim Jones, both guys who cooked the books at Fannie Mae (to the point of forging back-dated documents) to juice up their bonuses. Both of them are paying back 20 million in bonuses they essentially stole from Fannie.

ACORN and Project Vote are sister organizations. Obama's "community organizing" was for Project Vote. There is on Youtube a clip of him praising ACORN. He has represented ACORN. ACORN is under investigation for fraudulently registering voters in 12 states.

All of these things are amply doucmented by various news organizations. To say that they're untrue is ignoring the truth. Obama has formed "truth squads" to attempt to suppress any discussion of these issues. He's recruited elected law-enforcement officials (typically attornies general) to apply pressure on people who air any of these issues by threatening them with slander or libel lawsuits. Obama's lawyers sent a letter to every station that the NRA bought air time to run its anti-Obama ad, threatening them with lawsuits and complaints to the FCC if the run the NRA ads. Of course, the NRA won't buckle, but if you owned a television station and you had to have a federal license and this guy might well appoint the guy who approves your license, you might think twice about crossing him, no? He's supported an immediate withdrawl of the troops from Iraq, but met with Iraqi leaders last summer and tried to convince them not to go along with the present agreed draw-down until he was elected. Again, all of this has been reported by various news organizations who actually fact-check stuff. Denial of its veracity is disingenuous and foolish.

All of this begs a very simple question. Why is Obama so desparate to make sure the voters don't get a good look at his past, his friends and his associates? Why would he threaten people to not broadast what's well documented and true? In short, what's he hiding?

Let's face it. He has no record on which to run. His entire campaign is "hope" and "change". Look at his website. His campaign makes lot of promises, such as 4 grand for every kid to go to college. That's a lot of four grands he's going to hand out and it's got to come from somewhere. He says that he'll only raise taxes on the rich. Well, guys, what's rich? It's a moving target. On another thread here, someone was discussing the trials and tribulations of living on 80K a year. The average household income in Kentucky is half that. So to the 80K a year guy, he probably thinks the guy making 160 K is farting through silk, while the guy with Kentucky's average household income probably looks at our 80K guy Daddy Warbucks. In order for him to do half of the things he promises on his website, I got a feeling he's going to agree with the 40K guy and decide our 80K guy is rich and his taxes are going up.

You can judge a candidate's fitness in a number of ways. His record is important. Obama has very little and what he does have does not bode well for the US. You can judge him by the company he keeps. Of course, Obama's done everything possible to keep that under wraps. You can judge him on his plan. Since his stated plan is hope and change, he really doesn't have one. Hope is what you have when you don't have a plan. Change can be good or it can be rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

There's a ton of discontent in this country today. Our markets are AFU. There's a lot of finger-pointing across both sides of the aisle, but it's bigger than that. We've seen these things before and we'll see them again. Most serious economists (not the talking heads on NBCCBSABC) believe that the allowing markets to run freely with little intervention are the safest and best bet. That's not what Obama is preaching. They also believe that raising taxes during such an economy is throwing a drowning man an anchor. Obama supports raising taxes. People want to blame the present administration, but the seeds for every economic collapse are sown during the very best of times. Further, if you were to plot the performance of the US economy as a sine wave, there would be periodic peaks and valleys. this deep valley corresponds with an irrationally high peak a few years ago. If you ever run for President, study that curve well and run as it starts running uphill above the base line and make sure your enemy wins office when it's beginning to turn from its peak so he ends up in the valley. Few seem to like the war (and let's face it, if you truly like war you probably are a little twisted), but there is great disagreement over its necessity. The most important thing now is the end game. Obama's end game seems to be keep 'em over there until I get into office and then bring 'em all home so that I can be a hero. Hardly a plan of military genius.

I know we're all partisan. I get a little weary of watching the same simplistic arguments going back and forth. I'm certainly no expert, but I watch this stuff pretty damn carefully. I'm making my decision for whom to vote not based on skin color, a middleeastern middle name or because Bill Ayers used to be a mad bomber. I'm making it based on the fact that he's got a thin record, he's real adamant about people not getting to the bottom of his actions or associations and because his plan simply stinks. He will give us change. Just remember going from having money to being broke is a change. Dying is a change. Getting cancer is a change. Not all change is good. Sometimes the devil known is one hell of a lot better than the devil unknown. Hope is not a plan. It's what you've got to do if you don't have a plan.

good post.

[Feedman]

Me and some buddies were having a political discussion last night over some drinks and we came to this conclusion... There is no such thing as reality in American anymore, just perceived reality. Obviously Bush is not to blame for the financial crisis, but if enough people believe he is then it BECOMES reality.
If you can't make people form their own opinions based on facts, then what good are the facts? Facts are no longer relevant.

Art,
Good Post!! I think that the news media helps to distort the facts so that they are no longer relevant also.

[Ky'sFinest]

Me and some buddies were having a political discussion last night over some drinks and we came to this conclusion... There is no such thing as reality in American anymore, just perceived reality. Obviously Bush is not to blame for the financial crisis, but if enough people believe he is then it BECOMES reality.
If you can't make people form their own opinions based on facts, then what good are the facts? Facts are no longer relevant.

the thing is that it wasn't just him but he played his part. bush is by far one of the worst presidents imo. he has abused many authorities that in some cases aren't presidential authorities. he is supposed to be the watcher of congress and congress is supposed to be the watcher over him. neither are willing to exercise their authorities to keep each other in check.

if they have a (r) or a (d) beside their name, they are the problem.

[DOGY]

If i am reading the one line right, that the president has no control over any of these issues,that only Congress does, then what difference does it make who gets to be the next president? And your next line about the Congress has done nothing (which i agree), sounds to me like all these Congress men and women should be voted out of office and put some new people in. Also how in the world does a Senator or a Congressman get to stay in office forever when the president can only stay for eight years. Forget about which party either one should stay for 25 years. No wonder they get rich because us as voters keep voting them in. Wake up America its time to vote for some new people and then maybe we can get some change. Whats it going to hurt to try?

[Art]

If i am reading the one line right, that the president has no control over any of these issues,that only Congress does, then what difference does it make who gets to be the next president? And your next line about the Congress has done nothing (which i agree), sounds to me like all these Congress men and women should be voted out of office and put some new people in. Also how in the world does a Senator or a Congressman get to stay in office forever when the president can only stay for eight years. Forget about which party either one should stay for 25 years. No wonder they get rich because us as voters keep voting them in. Wake up America its time to vote for some new people and then maybe we can get some change. Whats it going to hurt to try?

It's up to the voters. If they have a better choice then they will usually act upon it. That's why Mitch will win by double figures.

[ptbrauch]

Interesting read:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp

[slickhead slayer]

It's been a conspiracy theory at the rate of about 3 a day against Obama for the past week. This particular one was on here last week, Maxcam just must have missed it. I think it actually came out a year or two ago, look at the gas prices! Ok, for those from New York City they may have been that price last year, but I find that hard to believe but will take a man at his word. They definately were'nt that here a year ago.

Look for many more of these in the days to come, but they wont hold water either.

I have steered clear of this thread because I am burn out on politics. But I had to laugh at the two of you who mentioned that this was a conspiracy theory.:rolleyes: Good grief.
Care to tell any of us what part is a conspiracy????
The Clinton Admin mandated that lenders issue loans for people who would not normally qualify. Its documented, hell its not even debated by Democrats. These people don't qualify for loans for a reason, and now we are seeing why. They are forfeiting these loans, just as suspected. Thats why we are in this mess, because of subprime loans that the Clinton admin MANDATED.
Mccain and other Republicans have tried to pass legislation regulating Fanny May and Freddie Mac, but the legislation was voted down on party lines.(Once again, these are actual Senate bills, you can look them, and see who voted for and against). And why wouldn't Dodd and Obama vote it down? They are the two biggest recipients of campaign money from Fannie May.
Some of you are laughable.
So I will ask the two of you, what part of this is a conspiracy???????? I bet my house I don't get an answer.

[slickhead slayer]

Interesting read:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/easescredit.asp

The two people who contend that this is a conspiracy need to read this, and then tell us what part of all this is a conspiracy???

[slickhead slayer]

like i said going back to simplicity, look at the clinton (democrat) ecnomy and look at bush (republican) economy. FACT is, your boy, who you fell out with when he was going to cost mccain's election has murdered our economy. he has done this by paying more attention abroad that he has at home. he has payed more attention to their people than our people. THE ECONOMY HAS DONE BETTER UNDER DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS! that is a fact.

.

Not only is this NOT fact, its wrong. The worst economy in the past 30 years has been under Jimmy Carter, from inflation, to int rates, to unemployment, he had the worst numbers.
Now if you want to compare Clinton and Bush, thats fine. Both Presidents had good economies for the majority of their term, but both economies tanked at the end of their terms. If you compare the economies of Bush and Clinton, at their mid-term elections (when both got elected to 2nd terms) Bush had a better economy. Go look at all the numbers and economic indicators, from unemployment, to int rates, to the stock market, home ownership, etc. They were all better for Bush.
I would tell you to research your facts a little more, but without clueless people, I guess we wouldn't have a Democratic party.

[maxcam]

Well I guess Obama is feeding the conspiracy himself.....

Take a listen.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owA2geM8OGg&feature=related

[raktrakr]

Not only is this NOT fact, its wrong. The worst economy in the past 30 years has been under Jimmy Carter, from inflation, to int rates, to unemployment, he had the worst numbers.
Now if you want to compare Clinton and Bush, thats fine. Both Presidents had good economies for the majority of their term, but both economies tanked at the end of their terms. If you compare the economies of Bush and Clinton, at their mid-term elections (when both got elected to 2nd terms) Bush had a better economy. Go look at all the numbers and economic indicators, from unemployment, to int rates, to the stock market, home ownership, etc. They were all better for Bush.
I would tell you to research your facts a little more, but without clueless people, I guess we wouldn't have a Democratic party. I have to disagree with that statement as well. The way I see it, if the economy was in such shambles,Bush would not have been re-elected in 04. The Dems took control of congress in 06, so did the economy take the nose-dive in Bushs' first two years of his second term, or the last two years? Either way you look at,congress FAILED!

[reivertom]

Look for many more of these in the days to come, but they wont hold water either.


See!

You're right about that.....The truth never has held water for the Obama bunch.


I guess the NRA is lying about Obama's anti-gun record too.

[grouser68]

You're right about that.....The truth never has held water for the Obama bunch.


I guess the NRA is lying about Obama's anti-gun record too.NRA?THE NRA? Are you talking about the NRA? Wow, now theres a group for ya! Why did'nt you just say the right wing radical group in charge of scaring people thinking their weapons will be taken away if you don't donate to them, and vote for whom they say to vote?

[Art]

NRA?THE NRA? Are you talking about the NRA? Wow, now theres a group for ya! Why did'nt you just say the right wing radical group in charge of scaring people thinking their weapons will be taken away if you don't donate to them, and vote for whom they say to vote?

You could replace "guns" with welfare and call it ACORN.:D

[grouser68]

I have steered clear of this thread because I am burn out on politics. But I had to laugh at the two of you who mentioned that this was a conspiracy theory.:rolleyes: Good grief.
Care to tell any of us what part is a conspiracy????
The Clinton Admin mandated that lenders issue loans for people who would not normally qualify. Its documented, hell its not even debated by Democrats. These people don't qualify for loans for a reason, and now we are seeing why. They are forfeiting these loans, just as suspected. Thats why we are in this mess, because of subprime loans that the Clinton admin MANDATED.
Mccain and other Republicans have tried to pass legislation regulating Fanny May and Freddie Mac, but the legislation was voted down on party lines.(Once again, these are actual Senate bills, you can look them, and see who voted for and against). And why wouldn't Dodd and Obama vote it down? They are the two biggest recipients of campaign money from Fannie May.
Some of you are laughable.
So I will ask the two of you, what part of this is a conspiracy???????? I bet my house I don't get an answer.I hope you have an earth sheltered home, or at least earth berm, cause thats what I am looking for, but I will take whatever you have.

Your first Q answered- Actually, I said conspiracy theory, not conspiracy. But to answer your Q, the reps. are reaching for straw in the form of ayers,fannie n freddie,birth cert.,and whatever else they can get to start a conspiracy theory to turn people from the other ticket.It was a given being behind so close to the general election.
Your second Q-Dodd and Obama probaly did'nt vote it down for some of the same reasons the reps that did'nt! I am not a mind reader, that question would be best asked to them.BTW, Obama got abut 126k, the nearest rep to him got 108k, not alot of difference there...sorry!:rolleyes:
Your third Q- That was answered in the answer given to your first Q.

Now, your questions were answered, I am sure you wont like the answers, but THEY WERE ANSWERED! So,I would like to know where my house is, when I can take possesion, and how long it will take you to get out? I am staying true tomy word, I answered your Q's, WILL YOU STAY TRUE TO YOURS?

BTW, I probably wont live in my new house, I will sell it to build the one I really want. Do you know anyone interested in buying, and how much can I realistically expect to get out of it?

[Art]

BTW, I probably wont live in my new house, I will sell it to build the one I really want. Do you know anyone interested in buying, and how much can I realistically expect to get out of it?

That would depend on the capital gains tax. Got Obama?

[grouser68]

That would depend on the capital gains tax. Got Obama?Not yet, but hopefully by Jan. we all will!;)

[Art]

Not yet, but hopefully by Jan. we all will!;)

Grouser, I've been waiting forever to be able to use this, and you've given me the opportunity!:D:D

Turn your volume up!:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sagwesmJ6Gg

[turkeytalker]

BTW, Obama got abut 126k, the nearest rep to him got 108k, not alot of difference there...sorry!:rolleyes:


I'm pretty sure the significant numbers here would be how many years they have been in office. For obama to rank that high in the limited time he's been in office is pretty amazing.

[grouser68]

I'm pretty sure the significant numbers here would be how many years they have been in office. For obama to rank that high in the limited time he's been in office is pretty amazing.Uh..........that was the Fannie Mae lobby money, pretty sure it does'nt have anything to do with seniority

[turkeytalker]

Uh..........that was the Fannie Mae lobby money, pretty sure it does'nt have anything to do with seniority


Uh.............. does the report state the dates?The one i saw went back to 1989...........Uh............ follow me:confused:.

[grouser68]

Uh.............. does the report state the dates?The one i saw went back to 1989...........Uh............ follow me:confused:.Uh...........the report came out on all the major news networks to include FOX about a week ago.................uh................follow me?:confused:

[turkeytalker]

Uh...........the report came out on all the major news networks to include FOX about a week ago.................uh................follow me?:confused:


Uh...yeah:D. What i'm saying is that the report included lobby money all the way back to 1989 and still obama placed second. Pretty good ehh?:)

[grouser68]

Uh...yeah:D. What i'm saying is that the report included lobby money all the way back to 1989 and still obama placed second. Pretty good ehh?:)Roger that

[slickhead slayer]

Your first Q answered- Actually, I said conspiracy theory, not conspiracy. But to answer your Q, the reps. are reaching for straw in the form of ayers,fannie n freddie,birth cert.,and whatever else they can get to start a conspiracy theory to turn people from the other ticket.

So you are saying that the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac situation is a conspiracy? Did you not just witness the huge debacle this country went through? They passed a $700 bill bailout because Fannie Mae is belly up. The stock market has tanked because of this bailout. How is that a conspiracy?

The reason it went belly up is because the Clinton admin forced lenders to issue these risky loans to people who don't usually qualify for them. My question is, what part of that is a conspiracy???

[reivertom]

NRA?THE NRA? Are you talking about the NRA? Wow, now theres a group for ya! Why did'nt you just say the right wing radical group in charge of scaring people thinking their weapons will be taken away if you don't donate to them, and vote for whom they say to vote?

Spoken like a true LEFT WING RADICAL!

[mgpatty]

So you are saying that the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac situation is a conspiracy? Did you not just witness the huge debacle this country went through? They passed a $700 bill bailout because Fannie Mae is belly up. The stock market has tanked because of this bailout. How is that a conspiracy?

The reason it went belly up is because the Clinton admin forced lenders to issue these risky loans to people who don't usually qualify for them. My question is, what part of that is a conspiracy???

The only conspiracy was on the part of Dems like Obama and B. Frank to keep the Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac scam afloat. Plenty of advance warning, but of course those Democrats (like Obama and Barney Frank, Financial Services Committee chairman) who could of made a difference chose not to.

"These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

Of course there will always be those who believe that the economic meltdown in the housing market was a scheme cooked up by the Republicans to embarass Obama and his Democratic friends...Conspiracy Theories abound by left-wing liberals...:rolleyes:

[grouser68]

So you are saying that the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac situation is a conspiracy? Did you not just witness the huge debacle this country went through? They passed a $700 bill bailout because Fannie Mae is belly up. The stock market has tanked because of this bailout. How is that a conspiracy?

The reason it went belly up is because the Clinton admin forced lenders to issue these risky loans to people who don't usually qualify for them. My question is, what part of that is a conspiracy???Your Q was answered, where's my house?

[grouser68]

Spoken like a true LEFT WING RADICAL!Thank you for your opinion of me! Did you actually have a thought on topic,........any topic?

[slickhead slayer]

Your Q was answered, where's my house?

LOL, just as I thought, no answer.Pretty typical.

[reivertom]

Thank you for your opinion of me! Did you actually have a thought on topic,........any topic?

I was thinking how could any supposed gun owner and sportsman's thinking get so convoluted as to support a candidate that is on the side of "animal rights" and the "Brady Bunch" ?

[Duster]

I was thinking how could any supposed gun owner and sportsman's thinking get so convoluted as to support a candidate that is on the side of "animal rights" and the "Brady Bunch" ?

Ever think there may be more issues than that involved ?

[Willie]

Ever think there may be more issues than that involved ?

You mean like moving this great country to socialism?

Of course true socialism goes hand in hand with gun control and confiscation..

[maxcam]

If it were me, I would be affraid of the dems controlling the purse strings all the way down the line whilst I was doing battle with the Taliban......

But hey if Grouser feels more secure with Dingy Harry Reid, Nancy Palosi and Barrack Hussein Obama in control then more power to him.......

[mgpatty]

Ever think there may be more issues than that involved ?

Yea, and it's Nobama's stance on the 'other issues' that are as troubling, if not more so, than his stance on gun control..

[grouser68]

LOL, just as I thought, no answer.Pretty typical.Just as I thought, crawfishin' on your bet! Very typical!