quiet change

[Ralph]

I have been following the new regs & season changes & date changes & fee changes & all the other associated BS at F&W for quite a few years now & can't understand how this one got by me. When did the law change so that you are allowed to shoot a BUCK with a crop deprivation tag? I found this out at the commissioners meeting in March. It was never mentioned before this, that I know of. I don't like it one bit & was wondering if anyone knew about it before someone (I don't know who) changed it? Did this come from the Wildlife Committee meetings or what? Usually a change is considered because someone asks for it. I really would like some info or background on this so I won't be so upset:(

[GSP]

Ralph, It has not been changed that I have heard. It would require a statue change to make it so.

In part:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">301 KAR 2:176. Deer control tags.


RELATES TO: KRS 150.010, 150.105 150.170, 150.175, 150.340, 150.360, 150.390, 150.395, 150.990

STATUTORY AUTHORITY: KRS 150.025, 150.105

NECESSITY, FUNCTION, AND CONFORMITY: KRS 150.105 allows the commissioner to authorize the destruction of wildlife that is causing damage. KRS 150.025 authorizes the department to promulgate administrative regulations regulating the taking of wildlife. This administrative regulation establishes the procedures under which deer may be taken to alleviate localized agricultural and wildlife habitat damage until it is appropriate to apply deer herd stabilization or reduction measures on a county-wide basis through regular hunting seasons.


Section 1. Definitions. (1) "Damage to wildlife habitat" means:


(2) "Deer control tag" means a tag issued by the department which authorizes a hunter to take <b>antlerless deer </b>during an open deer season.



(In-part)
Section 6. Use of Deer Control Tags. (1) A deer control tag shall not be valid except on the landholding for which it was issued.


(d) Shall abide by the provisions of 301 KAR 2:172, except that he shall:


<b>1. Not take antlered deer;</b>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This can not be changed by the Commission or Committee's.

[Xtreme]

Ditto on GSP's post Ralph. I have heard NOTHING on this. I'm not saying we are wrong but I think you may have misunderstood something.[I hope you did]. I'll find out.

[Ralph]

I ask specifically if HE was wrong & the person (either Jon Gasset or someone named Dave) turned around in his chair & looked at me & said "yes,they can shoot a buck but the antlers have to be turned in to F&W". This was at the March meeting. Now, I didn't think this could get by me but I can't go to every da** meeting down there. Do they have any other tag that would allow a person to shoot deer out of season? Maybe they do but I don't know about it. I will hold my tongue & give reasonable doubt a chance here, but I think I heard him correctly.thansk for the help. This was the same person I queried when he said that compound bows would be removed from the Pioneer Weapons Area at Cave Run. I questioned him on that but I see they (thankfully) did a little CYA & fixed it. Man, I get riled easy, don't I? [:I][}:)]

[Multidigits]

I may be wrong, but I think a farmer doesn't need a tag to kill an animal doing damage to his crops, wheather it be a buck or doe. The farmer that sees this happening can take action, or later disprese the crops tags to anybody he wants to use as designed. This then makes the deer a legal animal for the holder to dispose of as he sees fit. In other words, yes a buck doing damage on a farm can and does get shot the same as a doe would.

[Xtreme]

I E-mailed Roy G. on this and he did not answer today. I'll call tommorow and get a solid answer from someone at F&W. Myself personally all I have ever heard as far as crop damage has been antlerless only.

I just can't see this happening as it would be genocide for bucks as long as you owned cropland.

I will get confirmation on this.

[Ralph]

I agree with you , Xtreme[^]I just read the KRS. that was posted above by GSP& it clearly states that #1. antlered deer may not be taken & #2. I believe it states that these tags shall only be issued until a LEGAL DEER SEASON HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IN THAT COUNTY. Read it & see if that isn't what it says. That's what it looks like IMO[;)]

[RutNBuck]

Ralph, i guess i can understand your question....but we always got crop damage tags that were clearly marked "antlerless only" and since where i hunt the does probally out number the bucks 5-10 to 1 i can see the states point...i have heard that a farmer can shoot deer to control them but must leave them lay...i personally agree 100 % with the 1 buck policy...i did hear that the state was no longer gonna print any kind of crop damage tags to help reduce the cost they had to pay for them..

"A wise indian once said,the more you move the less you will see,the less you move the more you will see"

" I live to hunt, but my wife says i may hunting a place to live"

[Multidigits]

Crop damage tags ARE for antlerless deer only. This DOES NOT prevent a farmer from shooting a buck that is doing damage to his property.

[Big58cal]

Guess the buck that killed our willow trees by the lake last year is fair game if he does the same this year!

That size of willow tree costs about $50! Dang deer trashed two of them last year!

[GSP]

Multi, What are you basing this on? I have yet found a statue that allows this. If you are in an area that does not allow hunting. You can take a buck with a disposal premit, but the Dept gets the antlers.

[Multidigits]

I'm basing it on the fact that deer of both sexes can and do cause damage. A deer causing damage can be removed. If you have 10 bucks in a corn field eating, and 1 doe, your not helping yourself much by removing just one doe.

Crop damage tags(deer control tags) are used to futher drop the deer numbers, in access of what the legal limit is. Farmers don't need tags to kill a deer, no difference if it's doing damage or not.

[Multidigits]

Notice the difference between a DEER DESTRUCTION PERMIT and a DEER CONTROL TAG.

Also, be sure to read this part:

(6) Nothing in this administrative regulation shall prohibit a landowner or tenant from taking action to control deer that are posing a direct and immediate threat to life or property



301 KAR 2:176. Deer control tags.


RELATES TO: KRS 150.010, 150.105 150.170, 150.175, 150.340, 150.360, 150.390, 150.395, 150.990

STATUTORY AUTHORITY: KRS 150.025, 150.105

NECESSITY, FUNCTION, AND CONFORMITY: KRS 150.105 allows the commissioner to authorize the destruction of wildlife that is causing damage. KRS 150.025 authorizes the department to promulgate administrative regulations regulating the taking of wildlife. This administrative regulation establishes the procedures under which deer may be taken to alleviate localized agricultural and wildlife habitat damage until it is appropriate to apply deer herd stabilization or reduction measures on a county-wide basis through regular hunting seasons.


Section 1. Definitions. (1) "Damage to wildlife habitat" means:

(a) The existence of a browse line caused by deer; or

(b) Damage to more than thirty-five (35) percent of native plant species preferred by deer.

(2) "Deer control tag" means a tag issued by the department which authorizes a hunter to take antlerless deer during an open deer season.

(3) "Deer destruction permit" means written authorization from the department, pursuant to KRS 150.105, to take deer outside the regular hunting season framework.

(4) "Deer food plot" means a crop grown to attract and feed deer.

(5) "Department representative" means a department employee who is qualified and authorized by the commissioner to assess deer damage.

(6) "Landowner" means the person who has title to a particular property.


Section 2. Qualifying for Deer Control Tags. (1) A landowner with fewer than 1,000 contiguous acres shall qualify for deer control tags if:

(a) He has permitted deer hunting on the property during the previous deer season;

(b) Standard deterrent measures recommended by a department representative have proven ineffective or are impractical; and

(c) A department representative certifies deer damage to crops, gardens, property or wildlife habitat.

(2) A landowner with 1,000 contiguous acres or more shall qualify for deer control tags without evidence of damage if:

(a) He has permitted deer hunting on the property during the previous deer season;

(b) According to the judgement of the department representative, regular deer seasons are inadequate to control deer populations on the property; and

(c) The landowner agrees to:

1. Follow the deer management practices recommended by the department representative; and

2. Supply the department with weight, age and condition data on deer taken from his property.

(3) A department representative shall make an on-site inspection of each property for which a request for deer control tags has been made, unless the property:

(a) Has been previously inspected by the department and the landowner affirms that deer damage still exists; or

(b) Is immediately adjacent to property assessed by a department representative as having severe deer damage.

(4) A landowner whose property is immediately adjacent to property assessed by a department representative as having severe deer damage shall be issued damage control tags upon request of the landowner, even if there is no evidence of deer damage on their property.

(5) The department shall not issue deer control tags to a landowner whose only damage is to a deer food plot.


Section 3. Applying for Deer Control Tags. (1) A landowner wishing to apply for deer control tags shall contact the department through:

(a) A conservation officer;

(b) The appropriate district wildlife biologist; or

(c) The Division of Wildlife in Frankfort.

(2) If required by Section 2 of this administrative regulation, a department representative shall visit the property and assess the nature and extent of deer damage.

(3) A request for an assessment shall be made on or before September 30 to be eligible for current year damage control tags.

(4) A request for an assessment made after September 30 shall be considered for the following year.


Section 4. Number of Tags Issued. (1) The department shall determine the number of deer control tags to be issued for each landholding based on the recommendation of the department representative.

(2) Except as provided in Section 2(2) or (4) of this administrative regulation, the department shall not issue a deer control tag if:

(a) The county deer season is adequate to achieve the desired reduction in deer numbers; or

(b) Crop or environmental damage is not present.


Section 5. Transfer of Deer Control Tags. (1) Deer control tags shall be issued in the landowner’s name.

(2) A landowner:

(a) May transfer a deer control tag to another person;

(b) Shall not issue more than five (5) deer control tags to an individual;

(c) Shall require hunters to sign a deer control tag at the time of transfer; and

(d) Shall return unissued tags to the department before January 25.


Section 6. Use of Deer Control Tags. (1) A deer control tag shall not be valid except on the landholding for which it was issued.

(2) A deer control tag shall expire after license year for which it was issued.

(3) A person using a deer control tag:

(a) Shall have in his possession:

1. A deer control tag with his signature; and

2. A valid hunting license and the receipt portion of a current deer permit, unless exempt from license or permit requirements by KRS 150.170;

(b) May use deer control tags during archery, gun or muzzle-loader seasons to take antlerless deer;

(c) Shall not take more than five (5) deer per license year with deer control tags; and

(d) Shall abide by the provisions of 301 KAR 2:172, except that he shall:

1. Not take antlered deer;

2. Tag deer with the deer control tag rather than the carcass tag portion of the deer permit.

(4) Deer taken with a deer control tag shall not count toward the annual limit as specified in 301 KAR 2:172.


Section 7. Deer Destruction Permits. (1) The department may issue a deer destruction permit:

(a) To a landowner:

1. Who continues to experience damage after being issued deer control tags; or

2. Whose property cannot legally be hunted; and

(b) Where deer are posing a public safety or environmental threat.

(2) A deer destruction permit shall specify:

(a) The number and sex of deer to be destroyed;

(b) The method of destruction;

(c) The name of the person who will destroy the deer; and

(d) The dates during which the destruction will take place.

(3) A deer destruction permit shall not be issued without the recommendation of a representative of the department and the approval of the commissioner.

(4) A person destroying deer shall:

(a) Attach a disposal tag provided by the department to each carcass;

(b) Not remove the disposal tag until the carcass is processed or disposed of; and

(c) If an antlered deer was taken, turn the antlers in to the department.

(5) A deer destruction permit shall not be used except as specified on the permit.

(6) Nothing in this administrative regulation shall prohibit a landowner or tenant from taking action to control deer that are posing a direct and immediate threat to life or property.


Section 8. Denial or Revocation or Deer Control Tags or Destruction Permits and Appeal Procedures. (1) The department may revoke a deer control tag or destruction permit and deny a future tag or permit to a person who:

(a) Fails to comply with the requirements of this administrative regulation;

(b) Is convicted of a deer administrative regulation violation; or

(c) Otherwise abuses the Deer Control Tag Program.

(2) An appeal of a revocation or a denial of eligibility shall be submitted:

(a) In writing to the commissioner; and

(b) Within sixty (60) days of the date of the revocation or denial.

(3) An appeal of the commissioner’s decision shall be made in writing to the Fish and Wildlife Resources Commission within sixty (60) days of the commissioner’s decision.

(4) The Fish and Wildlife Resources Commission shall hear the appeal at its next regularly scheduled meeting. (23 Ky.R. 217; eff. 9-11-96; Am. 24 Ky.R. 2745; 25 Ky.R. 302; eff. 8-17-98; 26 Ky.R. 2300; 27 Ky.R. 490; eff. 8-14-2000; 28 Ky.R. 2420; eff. 7-15-02.)

[Xtreme]

I got in contact with FEW and Jonathon Day is going to contact me later. The gist of it is as what Multi posted. Crop Damage are ANTLERLESS only. DEER DESTRUCTION are as it reads. I will post later after speaking with Mr. Day.

It can be confuseing as most folks don't even know about DEER DESTRUCTION permits.

[Ralph]

Well, I'm getting a lot of good info here & would think that very soon most CyberHunter members will be more knowledgeable than most other people in this Commonwealth. I am going to print this stuff out for future reference[:)]However, I do have a problem with Deer "Destruction" Permits. Who keeps tabs on this permit & are any records kept? I could see where a vineyard or an orchard or a tree farm might have a problem--- wait a minute-- I think we have to take tree farms out of this don't we? Aren't they an agriculrural practice? Now that's a sticky question. Man, I opened up Pandora's Box here [}:)]Back later.

[Xtreme]

Ralph:

You are not the only one who has a key to Pandora's box. As a matter of fact that is what we are about. Accurate info at Cyber speed.

Jonathan Day got in touch with me and indeed....Crop damage are ANTLERLESS only.

DEER DESTRUCTION are EITHER SEX but are VERY RARELY issued and the horns go to F&W. There are several hoops to jump through to get a destruction tag.

Hope this clears things up and keep your ears open Ralph.

[Multidigits]

I agree and suspect that most farmers don't bother getting the permits. Last year only 1900 or so crop tags were used. Most farmers having problems take care of it and that's that. No permit needed at that point.

[GSP]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Muli, I agree and suspect that most farmers don't bother getting the permits. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You are correct on this one. I know of it happening. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve, but I can understand. I know some folks that make only $10,000 - $12,000 a year (a good year) on their farm growing produce. This is their only income and 6 deer can wipe out 25% of their annual income in less than a week. It is a different matter when a deer starts taking food off your supper table and money out of your wallet. Also farmers understand that the population grows from the females, not the males.
Again, I am in no way defending breaking the law. But, I really think the damage done to the the BUCK population in this state by farmers taking matters in their own hands is a very small, drop in the bucket compared to the numbers of bucks shot with a spotlight or "just for the hell of it". Another observation I've noticed about a lot of farmers. The ones that seem to have the biggest problems are the ones that don't allow hunting?????? Those folks, I really don't feel their pain.