View Full Version : Russia considering attacking poland?
RLWEBB
08-20-2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html
Looks like Russia isn't very happy about the US placing defensive systems in Poland.
Aw man, we're headed straight for another cold war. If I was in charge of our political machine right now, I'd be kissing China's butt BIG TIME. If we could get China on our side and denounce Russia's aggressions, then we'd be in good shape. Russia is not scared of us, but they are TERRIFIED of China. If they have the US and China, along with most of Europe against them, what could they do?
quackrstackr
08-20-2008, 02:08 PM
I can fully understand Russia's displeasure.
I mean, we invade another country ourselves with the reasoning of it having WMD's and now we are placing who knows what right on the literal doorstep of Russia.
I can not for the life of me figure out what the heck this administration is trying to do on it's way out the door... other than set the stage for WW3 and have every single nuclear power on the globe ready to aim the damned things at us and push the button.
RLWEBB
08-20-2008, 02:10 PM
Aw man, we're headed straight for another cold war. If I was in charge of our political machine right now, I'd be kissing China's butt BIG TIME. If we could get China on our side and denounce Russia's aggressions, then we'd be in good shape. Russia is not scared of us, but they are TERRIFIED of China. If they have the US and China, along with most of Europe against them, what could they do?
Very interesting Art. Never thought about it like that. I wonder what the possibility of a US/China alliance would be. On the other hand, I see this as potential US/Russian conflict in the making, and a factor in the election. I do think these types of acts by another country tend to favor McCain. I know I'd feel better with him in charge versus the ruskies than osama. Seriously, this deal with Russia is very concerning to me.
Ky'sFinest
08-20-2008, 02:12 PM
I can fully understand Russia's displeasure.
I mean, we invade another country ourselves with the reasoning of it having WMD's and now we are placing who knows what right on the literal doorstep of Russia.
I can not for the life of me figure out what the heck this administration is trying to do on it's way out the door... other than set the stage for WW3 and have every single nuclear power on the globe ready to aim the damned things at us and push the button.
i hear you loud and clear. it would be no different if russia had mexico as an ally and use them strategically to place powerful weapons near our country...
we need to get out of everybody else's affairs and start minding our own.
I can fully understand Russia's displeasure.
I mean, we invade another country ourselves with the reasoning of it having WMD's and now we are placing who knows what right on the literal doorstep of Russia.
I can not for the life of me figure out what the heck this administration is trying to do on it's way out the door... other than set the stage for WW3 and have every single nuclear power on the globe ready to aim the damned things at us and push the button.
I can understand Russia's displeasure with Georgia, but not us. We have never attacked anyone without just cause. The Iraq conflict was ONLY started after a long and useless effort to handle the situation diplomatically. After all, we probably would have never been there had America not been attacked.
As you know, missile tests are becoming all too common in countries that don't particularly like us, or our allies. Russia believes we are doing this to set up an attack on them. I think that is a misconception that has absolutely NO evidence to support it. Why would we do that?
quackrstackr
08-20-2008, 02:26 PM
Would you believe that story out of Russia if the Russian/Mexico scenario that KYF mentioned actually happened?
Of course not.
The cold war and nuclear tensions between us were not that long ago. Not to mention the US seems to absolutely love sticking it's nose in everyone else's conflicts now.
bassvax
08-20-2008, 02:43 PM
I can not for the life of me figure out what the heck this administration is trying to do on it's way out the door... other than set the stage for WW3 and have every single nuclear power on the globe ready to aim the damned things at us and push the button.
It is a sad consideration but maybe the out-going is trying to "scare" the election towards McCain? Maybe they see it as the only way McCain could win. I don't want support a "vast left-wing conspiracy" ( :D ) but it might be a tactic of sorts.
I agree that making China our ally might help deter the reds, but that sure stinks of making a trip to the "hen" house......pee yew!
The bear is rustling its feathers....seems to me some reds are still sore about their cold war loss. I was in the army during the cold war and it was tense in europe (maybe not as tense at the bay of pigs...but tense for sure). I was stationed in Italy with an airborne infantry unit from 1983 - 85 and I remember the looks we got from the reds when we toured East Berlin and the likes.....
Who knows...the whole idea that Russia is now run by the mafia may play into this....
Would you believe that story out of Russia if the Russian/Mexico scenario that KYF mentioned actually happened?
Of course not.
The cold war and nuclear tensions between us were not that long ago. Not to mention the US seems to absolutely love sticking it's nose in everyone else's conflicts now.
Here's what Rice said, ""It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."
If Russia is now prone to attack it's democratic neighbors that are allied with us, then it becomes our business. I think even though it seems to many as the US being proactive, it's also very reactive.
Comparing this current stuff to the Cuban Missile Crisis is very hard to do IMO. Russia thinks we are making them weak by putting up a missile DEFENSE system, very different than aiming nukes at them.
slickhead slayer
08-20-2008, 03:03 PM
My only problem with this whole situation, is that these are for missile defense. They do nothing , but protect against incoming missiles. Why would anyone be alarmed about missile DEFENSE equipment?
quackrstackr
08-20-2008, 03:04 PM
lol...
would you guys believe Russia if they told you that they just wanted to park a defense missle bank 50 miles from our border?
heck no, you wouldn't.
lol...
would you guys believe Russia if they told you that they just wanted to park a defense missle bank 50 miles from our border?
heck no, you wouldn't.
It's not a fair comparison. The geographics are TOTALLY different.
wademup
08-20-2008, 03:13 PM
I think that this all about Russia being pissed because since steroid testing they aren't crap in the Olympics anymore or anywhere else for that matter,gotta strut every so often to show the world they can do something.
quackrstackr
08-20-2008, 03:21 PM
It's not a fair comparison. The geographics are TOTALLY different.
How so?
Supposedly, this is not just about Poland.. this is about a first line defense against Russia or Iran.
The deal, which Washington sought as a way of defending the U.S. and Europe from a hypothetical threat of long-distance missiles from Iran,
Russia could say the same thing about us by brokering a deal with Mexico.
I don't see anything to be worried about. Good luck to Russia if they try something.
How so?
Supposedly, this is not just about Poland.. this is about a first line defense against Russia or Iran.
Russia could say the same thing about us by brokering a deal with Mexico.
Well, the amount of countries and the volatility among them is much greater in Europe and the Middle East, it's as simple as that. There are no countries in North America or Central America making threats to other countries that I'm aware of.
If Russia was strong allies with Canada and Mexico was testing missiles and making threats, then yeah, I wouldn't care if they put in a defense system on the Canadian border.
RLWEBB
08-20-2008, 03:39 PM
I don't see anything to be worried about. Good luck to Russia if they try something.
Yeah, well good luck to us as well if some of those ICBm's get sent our way! This is a very serious matter. This isn't some pee ant country like Iraq where we can overrun their military in about two days. These are a bunch of nuclear armed, thugs. I'm tellin' ya, this thing is about to get bad.
Yeah, well good luck to us as well if some of those ICBm's get sent our way! This is a very serious matter. This isn't some pee ant country like Iraq where we can overrun their military in about two days. These are a bunch of nuclear armed, thugs. I'm tellin' ya, this thing is about to get bad.
How much you want to bet on that? I'll pony up whatever. May even give you odds. Russia knows exactly what is going on here. Just like we would know exactly what was going on if Russia did this in Mexico. This isn't going to be another cold war, just a little smack talk. Do you really think that Russia would take on the US, all of Europe (Poland is in the EU), Nato, and possibly China (I will bet 1000 yen that the Chinese will side with the American dollar and the rest of the world).
How much you want to bet on that? I'll pony up whatever. May even give you odds. Russia knows exactly what is going on here. Just like we would know exactly what was going on if Russia did this in Mexico. This isn't going to be another cold war, just a little smack talk. Do you really think that Russia would take on the US, all of Europe (Poland is in the EU), Nato, and possibly China (I will bet 1000 yen that the Chinese will side with the American dollar and the rest of the world).
I agree with you for the most part, BUT that doesn't mean they couldn't do something stupid and it wouldn't be pretty.
raven_over_easy
08-20-2008, 05:09 PM
China is going to assert its self as the biggest dog on the world porch very very soon and have made considerable state level economic alliances in places such as Africa, and South East Asia -in exchange for mineral rights; Oil, Copper, Uranium, and precious metals. These Joint, state level ventures are facilitated by propping up Military dictators / warlords' with coffers full of cash and cache' in the form of cheap weapons and ammo to suppress the masses.
The west questions why The Peoples Republic of China has increased its military spending in recent decades. The reason is to protect its assets and project power and influence around the globe.
When it comes to the Europeans exerting pressure on Russia there is little more they can do but talk. Because Russia is the primary energy supplier to much of Europe. Impose sanctions and Russia can "cut the power," or increase the price.
RLWEBB
08-21-2008, 09:32 AM
China is going to assert its self as the biggest dog on the world porch very very soon and have made considerable state level economic alliances in places such as Africa, and South East Asia -in exchange for mineral rights; Oil, Copper, Uranium, and precious metals. These Joint, state level ventures are facilitated by propping up Military dictators / warlords' with coffers full of cash and cache' in the form of cheap weapons and ammo to suppress the masses.
The west questions why The Peoples Republic of China has increased its military spending in recent decades. The reason is to protect its assets and project power and influence around the globe.
When it comes to the Europeans exerting pressure on Russia there is little more they can do but talk. Because Russia is the primary energy supplier to much of Europe. Impose sanctions and Russia can "cut the power," or increase the price.
Good post. Europe is helpless to do anything. This could get very interesting.
mmayes
08-21-2008, 05:44 PM
lol...
would you guys believe Russia if they told you that they just wanted to park a defense missle bank 50 miles from our border?
heck no, you wouldn't.
Didn't Russia/USSR try to do exactly that in the 60's in Cuba? Or was that offensive missles?
Didn't Russia/USSR try to do exactly that in the 60's in Cuba? Or was that offensive missles?
Those were of the offensive variety
Wildcat
08-21-2008, 10:49 PM
Look at a world map guys, I don't mean a flat map but a globe map.
The anti-missile missiles in Poland are set to stop any missiles from Iran from hitting Europe and the US. From Iran to New York the shortest way is North-Northwest, over and though Europe, the Poland base is right in the zone to pick them off.
If Russia wants to shoot it's missiles at the US they will come over the North Pole, the missiles in Poland will do nothing to stop those. Russia KNOWS this but they still do not want Poland in the US camp.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.