Hard to believe

[ril7572]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KY_PARTIAL_PARDONS_KYOL-?SITE=KYBOW&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

At least 8 murderers get partial pardons in Ky.







FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) -- Gov. Steve Beshear has granted partial pardons to at least eight convicted murderers and 14 rapists over the past five months, a move that allows them to vote and run for public office.

Records obtained by The Associated Press from the Kentucky Department of Corrections show Beshear also granted partial pardons to 23 people who had been convicted of felony sexual abuse.

Beshear has granted partial pardons to 747 people since March when he streamlined the process for felons seeking to have their civil rights restored. The governor defended his actions in a written statement, saying all the people have completed their sentences and paid their debts to society.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy.

[MikeKy]

Absolutely amazing. I guess this means the convicted felons can legally arm themselves now in addition to voting. Sounds like 747 new Dems and counting to me.

[drakeshooter]

.....I guess this means the convicted felons can legally arm themselves now in addition to voting......

So, you have a problem with somebody arming themselves after they have paid their debt and have been pardoned? I happen to know a guy who had a felony drug possession charge 15 years ago. Never harmed anybody or stole anything. He just made a bad decision and paid for it with jail time, probation and a felony record. His record was finally expunged and he once again can vote and own a firearm. I've got no problem with that.

[killinmammals]

So, you have a problem with somebody arming themselves after they have paid their debt and have been pardoned? I happen to know a guy who had a felony drug possession charge 15 years ago. Never harmed anybody or stole anything. He just made a bad decision and paid for it with jail time, probation and a felony record. His record was finally expunged and he once again can vote and own a firearm. I've got no problem with that.
Good for him...how many felons actually turn there lives around like that though...NOT MANY. Why take a chance

[MikeKy]

So, you have a problem with somebody arming themselves after they have paid their debt and have been pardoned? I happen to know a guy who had a felony drug possession charge 15 years ago. Never harmed anybody or stole anything. He just made a bad decision and paid for it with jail time, probation and a felony record. His record was finally expunged and he once again can vote and own a firearm. I've got no problem with that.

Yes I do have a problem with it. If you don't, fine.

[KYBOY]

...how many felons actually turn there lives around like that though...NOT MANY.
Less than 40% according to the recidivism rate...

[westkybanded]

Absolutely amazing. I guess this means the convicted felons can legally arm themselves now in addition to voting. Sounds like 747 new Dems and counting to me.


No, they can't and it's a shame.... When you commit a felony, you are no less of an American Citizen than anyone else. Felons are stripped of their rights to vote, and own firearms after their sentences are up and that's awful. People make mistakes in life, and are punished for it. Yes, there are unforgivable crimes (murder, rape, child abuse, etc.) but folks that have business related felonies (insider trading, money laundering), drug offenses, felony DUI, among a host of many many others are treated the same as murderers.

Do the crime, get punished. Then I think all should be forgiven.

Their right to own firearms is a federal deal, not states. You'll notice that the Gov is only giving them partial pardons. The way the law stands now, he would have to give them complete pardons to give them all of their rights as American citizens back. That's not right.

[lab]

So, you have a problem with somebody arming themselves after they have paid their debt and have been pardoned? I happen to know a guy who had a felony drug possession charge 15 years ago. Never harmed anybody or stole anything. He just made a bad decision and paid for it with jail time, probation and a felony record. His record was finally expunged and he once again can vote and own a firearm. I've got no problem with that.

This guy did not take the life of another human, rape some woman, or even worse, a child either.

[raktrakr]

Absolutely amazing. I guess this means the convicted felons can legally arm themselves now in addition to voting. Sounds like 747 new Dems and counting to me.Job security:rolleyes:

[AteUp]

Before committing a felony one should think what their voting and gun ownership rights mean to them. Felonies are not normally committed by accident. What's wrong with a lifetime punishment after serving their prison sentence? It was a felony, not a speeding ticket.

[maxcam]

Before committing a felony one should think what their voting and gun ownership rights mean to them. Felonies are not normally committed by accident. What's wrong with a lifetime punishment after serving their prison sentence? It was a felony, not a speeding ticket.

This is a well known way for the Dems to expand their base.....come on Terry you knew that already.....They would loose every election if it werent for felons and illegals.....

[skin_dog1]

I'm on board with lab and ateup. These guys were murders and rapist! I also agree that I have to live with the decisions I make in life! Some have been good decisions, others have been bad. I don't neccesarily think that an 18 year old that steals a car radio should pay for a felony for life but a guy that takes the life of someone else or rapes a person shouldn't get out of prison, let alone beable to own a weapon or vote.

[cornbread]

:mad: How in the hell does anyone that commits murder or rape ever pay their debts to society.:mad: It seems that the dems are always concerned about protecting the rights of these scum bags. What about all the people that had their lives turned upside down by their crimes. Who is looking out for the victims and their families. Murder or rape someone and you deserve the chair.

[ptbrauch]

So we have murderers, rapists, and politicians. What's that saying about birds of a feather?

[Bray]

When Fletcher pardoned those people right before he left office there was a huge stink raised in the media. Now, I wouldn't have known it if I hadn't came here.

I don't see why you guys think it is ok for a convicted Murder or Rapist to be able to vote or own firearms. Sure people make mistakes, but we aren't talking about a DUI or Drugs here we are talking killing someone or raping them.

[buckfever]

Felonies are not normally committed by accident.

Under the Constitution, felonies can never be committed by accident.

So, you have a problem with somebody arming themselves after they have paid their debt and have been pardoned? I happen to know a guy who had a felony drug possession charge 15 years ago. Never harmed anybody or stole anything. He just made a bad decision and paid for it with jail time, probation and a felony record. His record was finally expunged and he once again can vote and own a firearm. I've got no problem with that.\

That cannot be correct. Only misdemeanors can be expunged. Felonies can never be expunged, only pardoned by the Governor.

Also, how do you know that your buddy "never harmed anybody"? A felony drug possession conviction usually means that there are enough drugs there to imply drug dealing (even though you didn't catch the bad guy trying to sell the drugs). If that's the case with your buddy, how do you know that his drug trade didn't result in the death of an 8th grade customer?

[trust me]

It irks me when people say that criminals "made a mistake". A mistake is when you miss your exit on the freeway or put a tablespoon of sugar in a recipe instead of a teaspoon. Those are mistakes. To use or deal drugs, to commit a felony, , those are willful commissions. You think about it, weigh the risks, and then decide, "I think I can get a way with it." That does not constitute a mistake.

People that commit felonies do so knowing what the punishment could be. Loss of rights, such as voting and gun ownership, is part of it. The felon may serve his time but he should still have to bear a burden afterward, if for no other reason than to serve as a warning to others that bad actions have bad consequences.

[Snareman2]

It irks me when people say that criminals "made a mistake". A mistake is when you miss your exit on the freeway or put a tablespoon of sugar in a recipe instead of a teaspoon. Those are mistakes. To use or deal drugs, to commit a felony, , those are willful commissions. You think about it, weigh the risks, and then decide, "I think I can get a way with it." That does not constitute a mistake.

People that commit felonies do so knowing what the punishment could be. Loss of rights, such as voting and gun ownership, is part of it. The felon may serve his time but he should still have to bear a burden afterward, if for no other reason than to serve as a warning to others that bad actions have bad consequences.


What a shame! Turning these thugs out and giving back their rights. Where is the accountability? This streamlining and money saving plan of this dork in Office is a sham. History proves that the majority of these jail birds with be back in. That whole process will tie up our court system, police, jail, and end up costing the tax payer. What BS, endangering society, and saying he is saving money, when infact he is screwing the system and us.:mad:

[redneck1377]

the news this month are about a man sent to the bighouse 20 something years ago for murder and raping a woman but he deny the rape all along and now a man are charge with her rape after the body reach the undertaker, what type of human can rape a corpse

[GSP]

It irks me when people say that criminals "made a mistake". A mistake is when you miss your exit on the freeway or put a tablespoon of sugar in a recipe instead of a teaspoon. Those are mistakes. To use or deal drugs, to commit a felony, , those are willful commissions. You think about it, weigh the risks, and then decide, "I think I can get a way with it." That does not constitute a mistake.

People that commit felonies do so knowing what the punishment could be. Loss of rights, such as voting and gun ownership, is part of it. The felon may serve his time but he should still have to bear a burden afterward, if for no other reason than to serve as a warning to others that bad actions have bad consequences.

I agree with this 100%!

I don't buy into the the, "he just committed a white collar crime" either. Someone that embezzles a couple of million with full intent of never being caught can not say that it did not hurt anyone. Just as Buckfever spoke about the drug dealer may have harmed others. This money that was stolen could have easily wrecked other peoples lives. There could be innocent people that lost their jobs, security etc.
Just because someone sits a few years in a country club prison, I don't think that should erase all they have done.

[deadaim]

Beshear will go down in history as the absolute worse Governer in Ky ever..........he is unbelievable.

[Foam Steak]

It irks me when people say that criminals "made a mistake". A mistake is when you miss your exit on the freeway or put a tablespoon of sugar in a recipe instead of a teaspoon. Those are mistakes. To use or deal drugs, to commit a felony, , those are willful commissions. You think about it, weigh the risks, and then decide, "I think I can get a way with it." That does not constitute a mistake.

People that commit felonies do so knowing what the punishment could be. Loss of rights, such as voting and gun ownership, is part of it. The felon may serve his time but he should still have to bear a burden afterward, if for no other reason than to serve as a warning to others that bad actions have bad consequences.

Everytime I want to say something Trust Me says it better with less words and more to the point. From now on my only responce is going to be "whatever Trust Me said"

[buckfever]

Beshear will go down in history as the absolute worse Governer in Ky ever..........he is unbelievable.

Really??? :confused:

. . . .but every day when I get up and read the Courier-Journal, our fine newspaper keeps telling us that Ernie Fletcher was the worst governor in Kentucky history.

The wise and oh-so-smart-much-smarter-than-the-rest-of-us people running the CJ also have column after column informing me that George W. Bush is the worst president in U.S. History, David Williams is the worst Kentucky state senator in state history, and Mitch McConnell is the worst U.S. senator in U.S. history. In fact, I'm sure the CJ will run an editorial in the paper in a day or two telling us that Bershear is only doing the right thing by pardoning all those noble murderers and child rapists that were unjustly imprisoned by the a judicial system that was constructed by those divisive republicans (whom clearly are racists for creating a system that sends a proportionally larger % of people of color to our prisons) such as David Williams and Mitch McConnell.

Surely, you're not telling me that I can't believe what I read in the CJ, are you? ;)

[semperhunting]

:mad: How in the hell does anyone that commits murder or rape ever pay their debts to society.:mad:

That's the best statement I've seen yet. In my opinion, never. Bullets are cheap, lethal injections and life sentences are expensive.

[KY_Fried]

If a convicted criminal, felon or not, can't be trusted to own a gun then they shouldn't be let out in the first place. If they're going to commit another crime once they get out it's not like taking away their right to own a gun is going to stop them from getting one. IMO, once you've done you're time, you should be given back all your rights. The problem is they let too many people out that have no business being let out.

[trust me]

If a convicted criminal, felon or not, can't be trusted to own a gun then they shouldn't be let out in the first place. If they're going to commit another crime once they get out it's not like taking away their right to own a gun is going to stop them from getting one. IMO, once you've done you're time, you should be given back all your rights. The problem is they let too many people out that have no business being let out.

It's not a question of being able to trust them. It's a matter of punishment. Taking away certain rights is a long-term punishment, because they abused their rights as citizens and will always bear the reminder.

[CUZZIN]

Beshear will go down in history as the absolute worse Governer in Ky ever..........he is unbelievable.
DeadAim you seem like a pretty good guy but you realy seem to dislike the Demos dont ya:rolleyes:

[naturalelite]

DeadAim you seem like a pretty good guy but you realy seem to dislike the Demos dont ya:rolleyes:


Seems to me like he just calls em like he sees em. You can put a new suit and smelly good on a piece of crap but it is still a piece of crap.

[deadaim]

DeadAim you seem like a pretty good guy but you realy seem to dislike the Demos dont ya:rolleyes:

Liberal, Republican, Dem whatever they all have there turds and Beshear floats with the best of them;)

[drakeshooter]

It's not a question of being able to trust them. It's a matter of punishment. Taking away certain rights is a long-term punishment, because they abused their rights as citizens and will always bear the reminder.

So, you really believe that one of the Enron guys should never again have the "right" to defend his home, property and most importantly his family with a firearm? KY Fried was dead on, in my opinion, and said what I was trying to. Murderers, rapists and child molesters should never again see the light of day and therefore shouldn't even be a part of this conversation. Of course I take exception to Beshear restoring rights to people who shouldn't even be outside a prison wall. However, if you haven't been shown to be a violent offender, have completed your prison sentence/parole, then you should have paid your debt and should be allowed to own a firearm and vote.

See, my point is better illustrated by this one little part of the entire equation: "No taxation without representation." Let's say a guy who has been convicted of a felony offense of insider stock trading. He did his time and then is released. He can't vote for who is going to represent him in the House or Senate, yet I'll guarantee you he will still pay taxes on any wages/salary he earns. That ain't right in my opinion. Thank God He won't judge you by the same standards some of you guys use.

[GSP]

So, you really believe that one of the Enron guys should never again have the "right" to defend his home, property and most importantly his family with a firearm? KY Fried was dead on, in my opinion, and said what I was trying to. Murderers, rapists and child molesters should never again see the light of day and therefore shouldn't even be a part of this conversation. Of course I take exception to Beshear restoring rights to people who shouldn't even be outside a prison wall. However, if you haven't been shown to be a violent offender, have completed your prison sentence/parole, then you should have paid your debt and should be allowed to own a firearm and vote.

See, my point is better illustrated by this one little part of the entire equation: "No taxation without representation." Let's say a guy who has been convicted of a felony offense of insider stock trading. He did his time and then is released. He can't vote for who is going to represent him in the House or Senate, yet I'll guarantee you he will still pay taxes on any wages/salary he earns. That ain't right in my opinion. Thank God He won't judge you by the same standards some of you guys use.

With that logic there, you are saying the rapist, murderers, pedophiles etc should get issued a voter ID card and a six gun when they leave prison too. :eek:
After all, they will pay taxes too.

[drakeshooter]

With that logic there, you are saying the rapist, murderers, pedophiles etc should get issued a voter ID card and a six gun when they leave prison too. :eek:
After all, they will pay taxes too.

Did you even read the first paragraph?:confused: Go back and read it and I'll bet you will delete your post.

drakeshooter
So, you really believe that one of the Enron guys should never again have the "right" to defend his home, property and most importantly his family with a firearm? KY Fried was dead on, in my opinion, and said what I was trying to. Murderers, rapists and child molesters should never again see the light of day and therefore shouldn't even be a part of this conversation. Of course I take exception to Beshear restoring rights to people who shouldn't even be outside a prison wall. However, if you haven't been shown to be a violent offender, have completed your prison sentence/parole, then you should have paid your debt and should be allowed to own a firearm and vote.

[quackrstackr]

How many lives did the Enron execs ruin again? What about their homes and property that was ripped out from under them, possibly to never recover.

They don't have the right to anything in my book.

[GSP]

I did read it, but to argue that a person should have rights based on representation, then you can not exclude them from conversation. To say that a murderer should not be represented, but the guy that caused fraud in the tune of BILLIONS should be doesn't hold water.

[drakeshooter]

How many lives did the Enron execs ruin again? What about their homes and property that was ripped out from under them, possibly to never recover.

They don't have the right to anything in my book.

One last try here. What does that have to do with their right to keep and bear arms to defend themselves? Do the families, homes and property of of those guys not deserve to be protected after they have served their sentences? That right is inviolable, IMO.

[drakeshooter]

I did read it, but to argue that a person should have rights based on representation, then you can not exclude them from conversation. To say that a murderer should not be represented, but the guy that caused fraud in the tune of BILLIONS should be doesn't hold water.

Ugh! I'm saying that murderers, rapist and pedophiles shouldn't even be free to earn a taxable income. Get it? It holds more water than the pacific ocean,:D.

[quackrstackr]

One last try here. What does that have to do with their right to keep and bear arms to defend themselves? Do the families, homes and property of of those guys not deserve to be protected after they have served their sentences? That right is inviolable, IMO.

It's not a question of being able to trust them. It's a matter of punishment. Taking away certain rights is a long-term punishment, because they abused their rights as citizens and will always bear the reminder.


Trust me has already posted the way that I feel about it. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

I guess those Enron exec's wives can defend them if an armed intruder enters their house. Those guys took people's entire life savings and financially ruined many of them for life.

I guess I still cling to some Old Testament beliefs. An eye for an eye.

[ptbrauch]

So, you really believe that one of the Enron guys should never again have the "right" to defend his home, property and most importantly his family with a firearm? KY Fried was dead on, in my opinion, and said what I was trying to. Murderers, rapists and child molesters should never again see the light of day and therefore shouldn't even be a part of this conversation. Of course I take exception to Beshear restoring rights to people who shouldn't even be outside a prison wall. However, if you haven't been shown to be a violent offender, have completed your prison sentence/parole, then you should have paid your debt and should be allowed to own a firearm and vote.

See, my point is better illustrated by this one little part of the entire equation: "No taxation without representation." Let's say a guy who has been convicted of a felony offense of insider stock trading. He did his time and then is released. He can't vote for who is going to represent him in the House or Senate, yet I'll guarantee you he will still pay taxes on any wages/salary he earns. That ain't right in my opinion. Thank God He won't judge you by the same standards some of you guys use.

Here's an idea for you. See if you can follow it.... if you want to always vote and/or always be able to own a gun, DON'T COMMIT A FELONY!!!!!

Is that too hard to grasp? In both of your examples, THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS WRONG!!!!

Here's another way to put it:

Do the right thing = keeping your rights

Do the wrong thing = losing your rights

Sounds pretty simple to me.

Now, if someone can get all of that changed--especially the part about prison time, etc, let me know. And what bank you use--I'll start there.;)

[RLWEBB]

I am very glad that the Lord does not hold us to the same standards as we do each other. Don't get me wrong, I support harsh punishments for criminals, the death penalty, heck I'm all for bringing back public execution, but at the same time we need to keep in mind that the Lord commands us to forgive. Heck, we're all sinners and we're all headed for hell unless we're born again believers. Look at Paul, Moses, King David, they were all murders and look what great things the Lord did through them after they had murdered. They all suffered the consequences of their actions as we all do, and should do. All I'm saying is that the same measure you use will be used towards you at the last day. How about a little compassion? How about remembering the bad things you have done, maybe not towards your fellow man, but against the God of heaven. I for one am thankful that he forgets my sin, and that it will in no way be held against me.

[GSP]

Ugh! I'm saying that murderers, rapist and pedophiles shouldn't even be free to earn a taxable income. Get it? It holds more water than the pacific ocean,:D.

And I can argue that one too.:D


I agree on the hardcore ones, hang'em. But you also have to deal with 3rd degree murder (19 year old greases steering wheel of friends car, friend jumps in car, hits tree and kills himself). Rape. 18 year old boy gets picked up by 20 year old girl that happens to be 15.
There is always a lot of issues to deal with and seems we as society have come up with a pretty good set of rules. Don't commit a felony or you will lose your right to vote, your right to own fire and you get spend time in prison.

[quackrstackr]

I am very glad that the Lord does not hold us to the same standards as we do each other. Don't get me wrong, I support harsh punishments for criminals, the death penalty, heck I'm all for bringing back public execution, but at the same time we need to keep in mind that the Lord commands us to forgive. Heck, we're all sinners and we're all headed for hell unless we're born again believers. Look at Paul, Moses, King David, they were all murders and look what great things the Lord did through them after they had murdered. They all suffered the consequences of their actions as we all do, and should do. All I'm saying is that the same measure you use will be used towards you at the last day. How about a little compassion? How about remembering the bad things you have done, maybe not towards your fellow man, but against the God of heaven. I for one am thankful that he forgets my sin, and that it will in no way be held against me.

Not to turn this into a religious debate, but that confused the heck out of me.

[RLWEBB]

What's confusing? That I support those things that are in bold? Those things are just as biblical as forgivness and tithing.

[quackrstackr]

You support harsh punishment for criminals including public execution but turn around and say that everyone else on here that thinks a life without voting rights and firearm ownership is justifiable should have compassion.

That is the epitome of hypocritical where I come from.

I don't remember anything in the Bible that said God commanded that everyone had voting privileges and the right to a Smith & Wesson.

[RLWEBB]

You are correct that it does not say anything about voting rights and gun ownership, however I don't think that it's hypocritical to say that we can have compassion towards others. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be subject to the law, which keeps them from those things mentioned above. All I'm saying is, that we can have compassion towards our fellow man just as the Lored has compassion on us. Although we do horrible things, He still loves us and still finds us to be of worth to him.

[MikeKy]

I read the whole article in the Courier Journal this morning. The big headline in the Metro section was "790 felons can vote again". If you can believe the accuracy of the reporting (which is certainly in doubt as so eloquently pointed out by Buckfever) the partial pardon restores the right of felons to vote and run for public office but does not "erase convicts' records or permit them to own weapons." The right to run for public office makes sense to me since they have gotten remedial training in the pen to qualify them to hold office. Beashears' count is up to 790 forgiven felons so far which includes 8 murderers and 14 rapists. He has turned down 56. If he keeps up this pace of 158 a month he will be on track to pardon 7584 felons in 4 years. I don't know if we will run out of felons before his term is up or if we will have to import some from other states for him to pardon. The article also said that ex-Gov. Paul Patton, that poster child for morality, pardoned 7,254 convicts in eight years. Brereton Jones pardoned 1536. Ernie Fletcher restored the rights of 1,098 felons in 4 years and instituted steps that required the felons to obtain 3 recommendations and write a letter explaining why they deserved to have their rights restored. Beshear did away with Fletcher's requirements so it seems to me like just a phone call is required now although the article said that Beshear requires confirmation that the felon has fulfilled all sentencing requirements. He has also extended the time a prosecutor has to object to the pardon from 15 days to 30 days so I guess pardons aren't handed to the convicts that Beshear is releasing early on their way out the door. They have to wait a month and try not to get arrested again during that time. The article also pointed out that a bill to allow "voters to decide whether to amend the constitution to restore voting rights automatically upon completion of a criminal's sentence" passed the House this year but died in the Senate. The article did not report on the political party of those that have been pardoned but I would sure like to know.

[drakeshooter]

I guess I'm just a softie.:D

[KYBOY]

And I can argue that one too.:D


Rape. 18 year old boy gets picked up by 20 year old girl that happens to be 15.
.
You know that does happen, not real often but Ive read it a couple times in a young inmates jacket..Even the girl said she lied but the law dosnt care...Bad mojo right there..A buddy of mine in high school damn near got arrested for it and to this day anyone of us would have thought she was 18 as well:eek:

[AteUp]

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080730/NEWS0106/807301082

Raoul Cunningham, president of the Louisville branch of the NAACP, said the organization has been running ads on black radio stations encouraging convicted felons to apply to have their rights restored. The ad also notes that they should apply soon so the process can be completed before the Oct. 6 deadline for registering to vote in the general election.

"If even a person convicted of murder has served his time, and is off probation and parole and completed all provisions of his sentence, then he is entitled in my opinion to vote," Cunningham said. "They start paying taxes immediately. Once they come out of the institution they are participating in society. Why not give them full participation?"

[westkybanded]

With the logic of most here, why aren't we revoking their citizenship? We'll deny them rights guaranteed to ALL AMERICANS by the constitution, but we'll still take their taxes right?

[quackrstackr]

1868 - Amendment XIV
The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution defines the U.S. citizen, and thus clarifies who may vote: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Children of immigrants, even illegal immigrants, are citizens and may vote when they come of age. However, this amendment does not expressly grant suffrage to non-whites and women. It does set the legal age for voting at 21. This amendment also allows a state to remove the right to vote for "participation in rebellion, or other crime." As a result, most states still ban incarcerated felons from voting, and several states extend that ban to ex-felons.

[lonesomepine]

1868 - Amendment XIV
The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution defines the U.S. citizen, and thus clarifies who may vote: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Children of immigrants, even illegal immigrants, are citizens and may vote when they come of age. However, this amendment does not expressly grant suffrage to non-whites and women. It does set the legal age for voting at 21. This amendment also allows a state to remove the right to vote for "participation in rebellion, or other crime." As a result, most states still ban incarcerated felons from voting, and several states extend that ban to ex-felons.


Didn't the colonists who started the USA participate in a "rebellion"? If some of you think harsher penalties should be applied to a crime,that's fine,but if a man (or woman) serves out his sentence as directed by the laws of this state,then why should they continue to be punished for the rest of their lives? I only hope some of you never make a mistake and are all perfect.You wonder why there are so many repeat offenders,but once convicted it is nearly impossible for someone to become a useful part of society again due to inability to get a decent job because of discrimination,loss of rights to vote,hold office,or otherwise serve your community,of course it's okay for the politicians running this country to rape and rob us daily for their own benefit.It would be more human to kill everyone who makes a mistake in life.

[AteUp]

I only hope some of you never make a mistake and are all perfect.

If the definition of perfect is "won't ever be a felon" then yes, I guess I am.

[redneck1377]

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080730/NEWS0106/807301082

Raoul Cunningham, president of the Louisville branch of the NAACP, said the organization has been running ads on black radio stations encouraging convicted felons to apply to have their rights restored. The ad also notes that they should apply soon so the process can be completed before the Oct. 6 deadline for registering to vote in the general election.

"If even a person convicted of murder has served his time, and is off probation and parole and completed all provisions of his sentence, then he is entitled in my opinion to vote," Cunningham said. "They start paying taxes immediately. Once they come out of the institution they are participating in society. Why not give them full participation?"


how can they start paying taxes before they find work ?
are the inmates guarantee a job before they are release

[AteUp]

how can they start paying taxes before they find work ?
are the inmates guarantee a job before they are release

I think he means when they find a job.

[redneck1377]

lonesomepine, your statement " it would be more human to kill everybody who made a mistake " made sense for some of the inmates, the problem is that no body wants to execute a innonect inmate, making someone to stay on death row for years after years is not very humana

[redneck1377]

I think he means when they find a job.


of course that is what he meant,,,,, if a inmate can not find work within 6-12 months will they be knocking on the prison door to get back in ?????

[lonesomepine]

If the definition of perfect is "won't ever be a felon" then yes, I guess I am.

Hopefully you won't,but you never know.

[lonesomepine]

While I'm no Beshear fan,the OP aimed this thread at him,yet forgot to mention this =
http://polwatchers.typepad.com/pol_watchers/2007/12/fletcher-issues.html


If someone serves their sentence as required by law,then there is no legitimate reason to continue punishing them forever.8 out of every 100 people in Kentucky have committed a felony.What good does it do to permanently ban them from being a part of society?

[quackrstackr]

While I'm no Beshear fan,the OP aimed this thread at him,yet forgot to mention this =
http://polwatchers.typepad.com/pol_watchers/2007/12/fletcher-issues.html



I highly disagreed with that one too and said so publicly right here. The governor needs to concern himself with the job that he was elected to do, not political favors to further his own interest. It doesn't matter what capital letter he has beside his name.

None of them are worth the water it would take to drown them.

[MsgMills]

Here's a good one for you people who feel that Felons should have their rights restored....

Just a couple of weeks ago....A Former Felon Woman, shows up at a Hospital with a new born baby...Things don't seem right at the Hospital, so they call the law. Tests show the woman is not the babies mother....The police verify that this woman kidnapped a baby within the last 5 years prior and has been out of Prison for the crime not even a year.... Police investigate and find a decomposing female body in the woman's apartment...Seems the woman had been disemboweled and her uterus had been cut open and a baby had been removed. The woman had her hands tied behind her back, while the cutting was done to her stomach.

So does this woman deserve to have her rights restored once she has done her time...cause I do believe the Court System will let this woman walk with being sent to a Mental Institution over her crime. Since she has a past history of a felony over kidnapping a child.....

This woman should receive the exact thing she did to the woman she killed...

Also the woman's sister has been implicated in the whole scheme as well, so does her rights get restored as well after she does her time too? :mad:

[redneck1377]

Here's a good one for you people who feel that Felons should have their rights restored....

Just a couple of weeks ago....A Former Felon Woman, shows up at a Hospital with a new born baby...Things don't seem right at the Hospital, so they call the law. Tests show the woman is not the babies mother....The police verify that this woman kidnapped a baby within the last 5 years prior and has been out of Prison for the crime not even a year.... Police investigate and find a decomposing female body in the woman's apartment...Seems the woman had been disemboweled and her uterus had been cut open and a baby had been removed. The woman had her hands tied behind her back, while the cutting was done to her stomach.

So does this woman deserve to have her rights restored once she has done her time...cause I do believe the Court System will let this woman walk with being sent to a Mental Institution over her crime. Since she has a past history of a felony over kidnapping a child.....

This woman should receive the exact thing she did to the woman she killed...

Also the woman's sister has been implicated in the whole scheme as well, so does her rights get restored as well after she does her time too? :mad:


this post are confusing , was the sister kin to the woman that got murder or to the woman that commit the murder

[lonesomepine]

Here's a good one for you people who feel that Felons should have their rights restored....

Just a couple of weeks ago....A Former Felon Woman, shows up at a Hospital with a new born baby...Things don't seem right at the Hospital, so they call the law. Tests show the woman is not the babies mother....The police verify that this woman kidnapped a baby within the last 5 years prior and has been out of Prison for the crime not even a year.... Police investigate and find a decomposing female body in the woman's apartment...Seems the woman had been disemboweled and her uterus had been cut open and a baby had been removed. The woman had her hands tied behind her back, while the cutting was done to her stomach.

So does this woman deserve to have her rights restored once she has done her time...cause I do believe the Court System will let this woman walk with being sent to a Mental Institution over her crime. Since she has a past history of a felony over kidnapping a child.....

This woman should receive the exact thing she did to the woman she killed...

Also the woman's sister has been implicated in the whole scheme as well, so does her rights get restored as well after she does her time too? :mad:


If the laws of this state allow such a person to walk outside again then the laws need to be changed,every felon does not commit crimes of this nature,for every terrible crime you point out I can show one that was more of a mistake in judgment or caused by alcohol/drug related causes.My argument is that 85% of these people are going to walk back into society again,some quicker than others,but what good does it do to permanently chastise them? If they can't get a decent job,can't vote or hold a position in their community,can't get a student loan to learn a new career,are prejudiced against everywhere they turn,then what do you expect they will do? Repeat,repeat,repeat to survive.I for one am tired of paying to keep the revolving doors going.It's already been proven in Federal Prisons that felons receiving drug and alcohol education,career education,etc are 73% less likely to become a repeat offender.Of course putting half the judges and lawyers out of a job would be a bad thing too,right?

[MsgMills]

this post are confusing , was the sister kin to the woman that got murder or to the woman that commit the murder

The sister was the related to the woman who cut the baby out of it's mother....:mad:

[GSP]

If the laws of this state allow such a person to walk outside again then the laws need to be changed,every felon does not commit crimes of this nature,for every terrible crime you point out I can show one that was more of a mistake in judgment or caused by alcohol/drug related causes.My argument is that 85% of these people are going to walk back into society again,some quicker than others,but what good does it do to permanently chastise them? If they can't get a decent job,can't vote or hold a position in their community,can't get a student loan to learn a new career,are prejudiced against everywhere they turn,then what do you expect they will do? Repeat,repeat,repeat to survive.I for one am tired of paying to keep the revolving doors going.It's already been proven in Federal Prisons that felons receiving drug and alcohol education,career education,etc are 73% less likely to become a repeat offender.Of course putting half the judges and lawyers out of a job would be a bad thing too,right?

So giving them the right to vote will fix all this?
I've hired over 100 people in past years. Never was it asked, "can you vote"?
It IS asked, have you been convicted of a felony. Seems most companies (and people) entrust their money to people that have NOT been convicted of fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, theft and others more freely that people that have a record of these things. Right or wrong, it's just the way it is.

[lonesomepine]

So giving them the right to vote will fix all this?
I've hired over 100 people in past years. Never was it asked, "can you vote"?
It IS asked, have you been convicted of a felony. Seems most companies (and people) entrust their money to people that have NOT been convicted of fraud, money laundering, embezzlement, theft and others more freely that people that have a record of these things. Right or wrong, it's just the way it is.
You just listed almost every banker and politician in the state of Kentucky,convicted or not 95% are guilty,It's not strictly about voting,it's about having all your civil rights returned after you pay your dues for whatever you did.

[drakeshooter]

...it's about having all your civil rights returned after you pay your dues for whatever you did.

That's my point too lonesomepine. Murder, rape and child molesting are about the only crimes I can think of that demand a lifetime of punishment. Writing a bad check for over $300 when you are 18 years old and paying for it with a lifetime loss of God given civil rights is a bit much, IMHO. That is an extreme example, but that crime is also a felony in the state of Kentucky. You can't hang everybody, but our nation leads the world in incarcerating people and KY is one of the leaders in the U.S. ....that is why dangerous felons like murderers, rapists and child molestors are being released in the first place.

[GSP]

You just listed almost every banker and politician in the state of Kentucky,convicted or not 95% are guilty,It's not strictly about voting,it's about having all your civil rights returned after you pay your dues for whatever you did.


Spending time in jail is not all your dues. Society set the rules that your dues are, you will spend time, pay fines, lose rights and you will have a record. We can go off the tangent that society has failed them, their parents failed them, the government failed them, bottom line is to be convicted of a felony, they made a predetermined choice to do so.

There is a sign that hung in my daughters classroom. Her teacher pointed to it every day.

Every choice has a consequence.

The consequence is if you make the wrong choice is you will do time, pay fines, lose rights and you will have a record. I have no problem with that. If they catch the sorry SOB (or SOBs) that stole my dad's tools, wrecked his house, stole everything he had when he was in the hospital to probably to buy drugs? I won't have a problem with him spending 10 years, $10,000 fine, losing his right to vote, losing his right to own a gun, losing his right to a free government education and I care not that this record for all to see would hopefully shame him through the rest of his life.
Hell, I don't have a problem with them rolling him in molasses and feeding him to the hogs.

[lonesomepine]

Spending time in jail is not all your dues. Society set the rules that your dues are, you will spend time, pay fines, lose rights and you will have a record. We can go off the tangent that society has failed them, their parents failed them, the government failed them, bottom line is to be convicted of a felony, they made a predetermined choice to do so.

There is a sign that hung in my daughters classroom. Her teacher pointed to it every day.

Every choice has a consequence.

The consequence is if you make the wrong choice is you will do time, pay fines, lose rights and you will have a record. I have no problem with that. If they catch the sorry SOB (or SOBs) that stole my dad's tools, wrecked his house, stole everything he had when he was in the hospital to probably to buy drugs? I won't have a problem with him spending 10 years, $10,000 fine, losing his right to vote, losing his right to own a gun, losing his right to a free government education and I care not that this record for all to see would hopefully shame him through the rest of his life.
Hell, I don't have a problem with them rolling him in molasses and feeding him to the hogs.





Good for you,may God allow you to continue in your sinless life.

[GSP]

Good for you,may God allow you to continue in your sinless life.


Never said I had a sinless life, far from it, but I am responsible for the decisions I make.

If I choose to commit a felony, I know beforehand the consequences I face.

[drakeshooter]

That's a hardcore stance there GSP. I'm glad that some of the bad choices I made as a teen/young adult didn't haunt me forever. There are enough that do. You made decisions too at a young age that you wouldn't do now for anything. In fact, I'd wager you look back and shake your head at the difference in your mindset then, as opposed to now. I know I do.

Let me ask you guys this: How many of you drove your vehicles in an unsafe and reckless manner? I know I did and am damn lucky I didn't kill myself, a passenger, a bystander or another driver. If I had, I could have faced a vehicular manslaughter charge, which is a felony. Now imagine that mistake (yes Trustme, a mistake) following you by loss of your civil rights for the rest of your life. Stuff happens every day. There has to be some chance at redemption. If 60% of felons reviolate, fine, they most likely will mess up before they complete their parole/probation and the point is moot. However, everybody deserves a chance to clean up their act and live right. That should be rewarded.

[AteUp]

I just don't get it these days. If you think someone should have to actually serve every bit of his sentence you're considered a hard ass who's never made a mistake? Whatever happened to "RIGHT AND WRONG" and "IT"S THE LAW?"

[AteUp]

How many of you drove your vehicles in an unsafe and reckless manner? I know I did and am damn lucky I didn't kill myself, a passenger, a bystander or another driver. If I had, I could have faced a vehicular manslaughter charge, which is a felony. Now imagine that mistake (yes Trustme, a mistake) following you by loss of your civil rights for the rest of your life. Stuff happens every day.

Wow. Stuff happens every day huh? You've killed someone in a car crash (hypothetically) and you're worried about losing your voting rights??

[drakeshooter]

Wow. Stuff happens every day huh? You've killed someone in a car crash (hypothetically) and you're worried about losing your voting rights??

Are you a lawyer or something ateup?:D Cause you are twisting the heck out of my words and turning them into something entirely different. Come on, you are smarter than that and know what I mean.

Answer the question I asked above Ateup. Did you ever drive like a freaking idiot when you were a young buck? You could have committed a felony right there if you did and by the mercy of God you didn't.

If the law said to chop off your head for writing a bad check would you exclaim, "It's the law!" The law isn't always right, like those bad gun laws you and I hate so much, i.e. like the one Obama voted against in his home state.

[buckfever]

Good for you,may God allow you to continue in your sinless life.

Heck, since we're playing the "sinner" card now, why don't you offer to hire a handful of these freshly pardoned murderers and rapists to do some odd jobs and chores around your farm.

That way, you'll really be practicing what you preach about trying to do the Lord's bidding, and to a lesser degree, you'd really be fulfilling your civic duty by helping these unfortunate souls turn their life around and get back on their feet with a decent job.

You can give each one of 'em a big hug every day to show 'em how much you care about 'em.

Of course, a lot of 'em might actually prefer to get their hugs from your wife, daughter or maybe even your grandson. ;)

[trust me]

If you want to argue over semantics, we can do that.

When I was 22 and turned my Mustang on to Main Street doing about 30 mph, dropped in down into 2nd and burned rubber half way through town while fishtailing in both lanes, that was not a mistake. That was reckless and wanton disregard for the laws and safety of me and everyone around me. That was a really bad decision that could have had long lasting consequences if I'd hurt someone or gotten caught. I did it because I studied the fun vs. the risks and decided the fun was worth it.

For the record, I didn't hurt anyone and I didn't get caught, although the town cop met me on a dark street about 2 weeks later and chewed my arse and let me know he was watching my every move from then on. At the time, I judged the fun was worth the risks. Looking back, I was a brainless idiot that should have had his butt kicked up around his neck.

Now I'm in my 40's and as I cruise down the road in my minivan obeying the speed limit, I occasionally drift over and unintentionally cross the yellow line. If I hit oncoming traffic, that can have long lasting consequences for me and the others, but if it happens I haven't committed a willful crime. It would be a tragic mistake, however.

Much of our laws are based on the ages-old "Prudent Man" theory; i.e., our actions are judged by what a Prudent Man would do in our situation. Prudent people don't commit felonies.

Nobody here has claimed to lead a sinless, blameless, perfect life. It's asinine for you to imply that we have made that claim. We all make mistakes, but we don't all commit felonies.

[drakeshooter]

Hey, I'm not saying every case should result in a return of civil rights...just a case by case review. I'm glad we have that by governors and presidents having the power to pardon/commute injustices. One of Fletcher's pardons hit home to me and made me feel the way I do about redemption. A black man in Hopkinsville was convicted on wanton murder charges for running a red light. I've done it before myself, though, like you Trustme, I've slowed it down a lot. Anyway, the man got 20 years and a felony conviction. Fletcher did the right thing. We can debate each instance case by case and I believe Beshear dropped the ball big time in a lot of those cases. However, I believe that somebody should have the power to right a wrong. This has been a good debate.

[quackrstackr]

I think the daughters of the woman that the Yonts boy ran over in Murray (then tried to cover up) would probably disagree with you on that one.

[buckfever]

Now I'm in my 40's and as I cruise down the road in my minivan obeying the speed limit

. . . . and jamming to Neil Sedaka crooning "Breaking Up is Hard to Do" on the oldies station.

OMG, Really??? a minivan???? :eek:

[lonesomepine]

Heck, since we're playing the "sinner" card now, why don't you offer to hire a handful of these freshly pardoned murderers and rapists to do some odd jobs and chores around your farm.

That way, you'll really be practicing what you preach about trying to do the Lord's bidding, and to a lesser degree, you'd really be fulfilling your civic duty by helping these unfortunate souls turn their life around and get back on their feet with a decent job.

You can give each one of 'em a big hug every day to show 'em how much you care about 'em.

Of course, a lot of 'em might actually prefer to get their hugs from your wife, daughter or maybe even your grandson. ;)

Just so you know I work with recovering alcoholics and drug addicts daily,some are felons,some aren't.One thing I do know is that a huge percentage turn out to be decent,honest people when they turn their lives around,most have a better understanding of forgiveness and making amends than most of you self proclaimed witch hunters.The problem I see is that most of you aren't intelligent enough to differentiate the word felon from Child Molesters and Murderers,there appears to be a whole list of other crimes considered felonies that don't involve sex or murder.Once again 85% of these people will be out on the street again whether you like it or not,why help add to the problem by making it impossible for these people to lead a normal life instead of giving them the skills and a fair shake after they have completed their sentence as required by the laws of your state?Geez,and you wonder why Ky has the highest % of incarceration and returns in the country,yet you b*tch about paying for them,in the long run wouldn't it be more cost effective to change their outlook?

[lonesomepine]

I just don't get it these days. If you think someone should have to actually serve every bit of his sentence you're considered a hard ass who's never made a mistake? Whatever happened to "RIGHT AND WRONG" and "IT"S THE LAW?"


Who said anything about not serving the sentence out? It's not the punishment that's a problem,punish away,it's the fact that these people will return to our communities some day and when they do the face this continued hatred and everlasting punishment that only contributes to the cause.

[buckfever]

Could you type a little slower lonesome? All us ignorant, mean-spirited folk are having a tough time keeping up with all that intellectual enlightenment your shining down upon us. :)

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KY_PARTIAL_PARDONS_KYOL-?SITE=KYBOW&SECTION=STATE&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
At least 8 murderers get partial pardons in Ky.


Anyhoo, I believe that this was the original comment that opened this thread, and I also believe the article mentioned the pardoning of 8 murderers and 14 rapists.

Now, I've never been convicted of a felony (and I intentionally used the phrase "never been convicted" one ;)). I don't associate with as many known felons as you do, and I may not be intelligent enough to keep up, but could you explain to me again exactly how society would benefit from having people, who clearly made some very, very, very bad choices in the past (i.e. dare I say committing felonies), participating in electing our governmental leaders?

[lonesomepine]

Could you type a little slower lonesome? All us ignorant, mean-spirited folk are having a tough time keeping up with all that intellectual enlightenment your shining down upon us. :)



Anyhoo, I believe that this was the original comment that opened this thread, and I also believe the article mentioned the pardoning of 8 murderers and 14 rapists.

Now, I've never been convicted of a felony (and I intentionally used the phrase "never been convicted" one ;)). I don't associate with as many known felons as you do, and I may not be intelligent enough to keep up, but could you explain to me again exactly how society would benefit from having people, who clearly made some very, very, very bad choices in the past (i.e. dare I say committing felonies), participating in electing our governmental leaders?

Well,I seriously doubt if they'd do any worse than the idiots (like Beshear) that you puritans elect:eek:

[ptbrauch]

Let's see if I can illustrate something. Last week here in L'ville, a man decided to run from the police. In the process, he hit 2 little girls and killed them. They were just 4 and 5 years old. He sits in a jail cell, they lie in 6 ft of dirt. He might one day have the chance to vote once again. But those two little girls will never have that chance. Somehow I don't believe you'll ever convince me that giving up the right to vote, own a gun, or even making sacrifices to the right of free assembly (everyone seems to have forgotten the "associating with known felons" club that felony-committers join) comes anywhere near a fair trade for those two lives.

There there was the guy who earlier this week was found guilty of shooting his hunting partner. The shooter was a felon. Twenty five years ago he was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm. Maybe in that 25 years he never touched a gun. Maybe he touched one every day. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure I know of one guy who wishes he didn't touch a gun that day. So, which one of those two won't be voting this November?

And finally, for everyone who says "I hope you didn't ever make a mistake", but then goes on to give examples of crimes that if caught for are only misdemeanors, guess what, the law recognizes varying degrees of "mistakes". So if you drove your car recklessly and got caught for it, I have no problem with you voting or owning a gun, but if you drove your car recklessly and someone lost a limb or their life, then you are responsible for the consequences.

So its pretty simple, if you want to vote, don't commit a felony.

[lonesomepine]

By the way,I'd say these Murderers and Rapists that Beshear granted a "Partial"pardon to,where not recent incarcerations,but people who were released and made the best of their lives without further criminal acts,it's not like they regained gun rights,only the right to vote,run for office,and be protected by the constitution.
Quote from article =
"In his partial pardons, Beshear restored only the right to vote and hold public office. He did not restore the right to possess weapons or to serve on juries.
Beshear spokesman Dick Brown said Kentucky governors have been granting partial pardons for years. Beshear's predecessor, former Gov. Ernie Fletcher, issued more than 1,000 during his four-year term that ended last year."

"It's our position that one's criminal history should have no bearing on one's right to participate in a Democratic society," King said. "We believe voting is a fundamental element of any democracy."
Beshear, speaking to reporters in March, said that's also his position. He said the process had become unwieldy and time-consuming to the point of discouraging felons from applying.
Kentucky and Virginia, King said, have the most restrictive process for restoring the right to vote or hold office."

"the state's policy calls for each violent offender to supply three letters of recommendation, proof of payment of all court costs and fines, and a letter from a probation officer. An applicant must also submit a letter explaining the circumstances of arrest and detailing how his or her life has changed. Applicants must have spotless records for at least five years before requesting partial pardons."

[lonesomepine]

Let's see if I can illustrate something. Last week here in L'ville, a man decided to run from the police. In the process, he hit 2 little girls and killed them. They were just 4 and 5 years old. He sits in a jail cell, they lie in 6 ft of dirt. He might one day have the chance to vote once again. But those two little girls will never have that chance. Somehow I don't believe you'll ever convince me that giving up the right to vote, own a gun, or even making sacrifices to the right of free assembly (everyone seems to have forgotten the "associating with known felons" club that felony-committers join) comes anywhere near a fair trade for those two lives.

There there was the guy who earlier this week was found guilty of shooting his hunting partner. The shooter was a felon. Twenty five years ago he was charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm. Maybe in that 25 years he never touched a gun. Maybe he touched one every day. I don't know the answer, but I'm sure I know of one guy who wishes he didn't touch a gun that day. So, which one of those two won't be voting this November?

And finally, for everyone who says "I hope you didn't ever make a mistake", but then goes on to give examples of crimes that if caught for are only misdemeanors, guess what, the law recognizes varying degrees of "mistakes". So if you drove your car recklessly and got caught for it, I have no problem with you voting or owning a gun, but if you drove your car recklessly and someone lost a limb or their life, then you are responsible for the consequences.

So its pretty simple, if you want to vote, don't commit a felony.


Funny how we only illustrate the worst case scenarios and forget about the other possibilities,still doesn't tell me how it helps prevent these people from ending up where they started by forever punishing them even after serving what a court of law deemed to be an appropriate sentence?

[trust me]

I actually know one of the pardoned on Beshear's list. He was a drug dealer that controlled a big part of the trade in an Eastern Kentucky county. Part of the reason he was arrested was a couple of high-profile overdoses he supplied back in the early 90's. He had a little squad of young boys that did his drug running for him. He supplied them with Mustangs, Firebirds, Camaros, all late 60's or early 70's vintage, to use in the courier service. One of the young men was a National Guard member, and he started sampling the product he was carrying. He wrecked his 72 Mustang and some product was missing. The young man blew his brains out a few weeks later, either out of drug addiction or fear of what was going to happen to him that was going to be much, much worse.

The drug dealer pulled about 5 years in the pen, got out, re-established his legitimate business he'd had previously, and today is rolling in the dough, presumably it's all legal. He's a hard worker, seems to be honest, functions well in society and hasn't let his prison record hinder his life.

Now, according to the list in the first post, he's got some right restored to him. The three deaths directly attributable to him and his crimes are forgotten.

[MsgMills]

To me I see nothing wrong with the policy Ernie Fletcher had established while in Office. The People who committed crimes and had their rights revoked had to earn their Adult Rights back.... Not just given some of them back so as to appease those that have given them back....

Come On" I see nothing wrong with the following Statement:

"the state's policy calls for each violent offender to supply three letters of recommendation, proof of payment of all court costs and fines, and a letter from a probation officer. An applicant must also submit a letter explaining the circumstances of arrest and detailing how his or her life has changed. Applicants must have spotless records for at least five years before requesting partial pardons."

To me I think this would be fair and equal for all involved....If those who want their rights restored can't do what's been asked of them by law. Then they don't deserve their Adult Rights back....period.

[lonesomepine]

I want to give one case scenario and then I won't argue my point of view any further because it's not likely to get anywhere,anyhow.
I knew a man who lived on the Virginia - Kentucky line,he was an extremely honest man,never stole a penny in his life,never mistreated a sole,loved his wife and 12 kids with all his heart,gave money to churches (even though he didn't rightly belong to any),gave money to needy families and helped his community any time or way he could,during his lifetime things were pretty tough during the great depression,so this otherwise honest man went to making illegal whiskey,corn liquor,moonshine,or whatever you prefer to call it in order to support his family during extremely hard times.He went to prison for making and selling illegal whiskey and you might say he knew he was doing wrong,and deserved what happened.Basically it was a crime because he didn't want to pay the unfair taxes placed on his product by our govt and part of that time was still during prohibition (which was a huge mistake to start with). This man's ancestors came to this country in the late 1500's or just at the turn of the 1600's to escape from an unfairly taxing govt and alot of similarity's to todays govt.They fought Indians,(one killed Cheif Benge the notorious settlement raider at Big Stone Gap,Va),they fought in the Revolutionary War,The War of 1812,The Civil War(on both sides) and every war since for the freedom of this country.This man himself fought in 8 major battles of WWI,yet he was a convicted felon who received a pardon from the governor,I know this person very well,he was my Uncle.

[GSP]

Funny how we only illustrate the worst case scenarios and forget about the other possibilities,still doesn't tell me how it helps prevent these people from ending up where they started by forever punishing them even after serving what a court of law deemed to be an appropriate sentence?


OK, fair enough. I'll give you one. My dad had a stroke July 17th, year before last. The next night some local punk or punks knowing he was in hospital hanging on to life thought he no longer needed his possessions. The broke into his house, wrecked it, took the easy to carry pawn items. Broke into his tool shed, took the items too. After adjustment from insurance it totaled $2600. Not that much to show for a persons "estate". Dad did not have much, but it was his. When he was released he went to a nursing home suffering from stroke issues and onset of dementia. I visited him every week and took him to his farm. All he asked about was where his things were. I tried to replace as best as I could but he knew his stuff and had a fixation over it. I watched at least 3 out of 4 times him wandering and constantly asking about his items and why his house was different. He many times was child like and making him understand was impossible. I watched this until he died at the beginning of this year.
Now for me to sit hear and hear that in a few years we should just "forget" about this petty little crime that only amounted to $2600 because the poor fellow may needed those things to pawn?
I'll give you my opinion on that fellow one more time. I hope he is caught, he is fined, he loses rights and I hope bubba makes him cry 10 times for each time he made my dad upset. After he is released I hope the World knows what this person did. Also, I really hope I get to write an opinion to whomever thinks this poor soul should have his past swept under a rug. Heck, after all it's only $2600 bucks we are talking about. Not like anyone got hurt or anything.:rolleyes:

[cornbread]

I just don't understand how we have gotten to a point where people make excuses for criminals. We tolerate bad behavior and make excuses for those that commit crimes. A mistake is what happens when I write down the wrong amount in my check book. Commiting a crime is a choice. I have no faith in our legal system.

[lonesomepine]

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk178/kghighroller/porn.jpg

[MikeKy]

[quote=lonesomepine;614695]By the way,I'd say these Murderers and Rapists that Beshear granted a "Partial"pardon to,where not recent incarcerations,but people who were released and made the best of their lives without further criminal acts,it's not like they regained gun rights,only the right to vote,run for office,and be protected by the constitution.

Lonesome you might be right on this but with the numbers Beshear is putting up I get the feeling that it's pretty much automatic. Just fill out the form and get pardoned. Almost 800 pardoned and only 56 refused. I also get the feeling that our Gov isn't issuing the pardons out of compassion for the felons. He's a political animal and wouldn't take the time to rubber stamp the pardons if he didn't think there was some benefit, either directly or indirectly, to him or his beloved party. IMO, all he is doing is trying to round up more registered Dems, more supporters for his casino agenda and more folks that might be interested in selling their votes.

[buckfever]

\By the way,I'd say these Murderers and Rapists that Beshear granted a "Partial"pardon to,where not recent incarcerations,but people who were released and made the best of their lives without further criminal acts,it's not like they regained gun rights,only the right to vote,run for office,and be protected by the constitution.

Right to Vote - Hmmm. . . .I wonder whom those 800 felons who were pardoned by Bershear will vote for in the next governor's election. Something tells me that the Guv will pardon a whole lot more before 2010 rolls around. :rolleyes:

Right to Run for Office - LMAO. . . :D. . . .Now, there's really something that we all should want our ex-con felons to aspire to.

Right to be protected by the Constitution - Well, if they still can't own a firearm, how are their 2nd Amendment rights being protected?

I also don't understand the logic of letting them vote and hold office, but not letting them have guns. After all, if they've turned their life around enough to run our government or vote, then surely we oughta be able to trust them with a handgun, shouldn't we???? :cool:

[KYBOY]

Ive seen plenty of old men in prison that have been there for years and years over robbery..I mean 70+ year old men..Now is it really fair that a gang banger will plead down to manslaughter and gets out in 10 years or so??.. Yet this 70 year old man who has already served 25,30 or even 40 years over that robbery will die in prison....Felons use to get life for armed robbery all the time it seems..That 70+ year old man has to pull his time, why not the punks of today??

[kytrapper]

Back when they were sentenced words meant things. Life was life. Now life is 36 months and released.

[Snareman2]

Back when they were sentenced words meant things. Life was life. Now life is 36 months and released.

Yeah, I don't like it either. Those same thugs can kill your family, and not even blink an eye. Society is the victim here. Word should be the word, you get life, you do life. You get death, they should die, not go through twenty years of appeals. Do the victims get to appeal? No!:mad:

[Feedman]

Wasn't there an article a few months ago in the CJ about 3 men who had been let out of jail early on shock probation had committed murder in 2007!!
Prosecutors and judges were blamed!! They met the criteria for early release yet still committed murder!!
Criminals are not afraid to go to jail!! We have no deterrents (sp). We should start making examples of some of these violent criminals so that others maybe won't commit a crime.:mad:

[MikeKy]

Really??? :confused:

. . . .but every day when I get up and read the Courier-Journal, our fine newspaper keeps telling us that Ernie Fletcher was the worst governor in Kentucky history.

The wise and oh-so-smart-much-smarter-than-the-rest-of-us people running the CJ also have column after column informing me that George W. Bush is the worst president in U.S. History, David Williams is the worst Kentucky state senator in state history, and Mitch McConnell is the worst U.S. senator in U.S. history. In fact, I'm sure the CJ will run an editorial in the paper in a day or two telling us that Bershear is only doing the right thing by pardoning all those noble murderers and child rapists that were unjustly imprisoned by the a judicial system that was constructed by those divisive republicans (whom clearly are racists for creating a system that sends a proportionally larger % of people of color to our prisons) such as David Williams and Mitch McConnell.

Surely, you're not telling me that I can't believe what I read in the CJ, are you? ;)

Their editorial in support of Beshear's pardons was on page A6 of the Thursday, July 31 issue of the C-J. The title was Beshear gets it. You must be clairvoyant or just used to the C-J rag being slightly biased. It ought to be called the Democrat Party Daily.

[drakeshooter]

Their editorial in support of Beshear's pardons was on page A6 of the Thursday, July 31 issue of the C-J. The title was Beshear gets it......

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080731/OPINION01/807310359/1016/OPINION

[MikeKy]

Thanks Drakeshooter. Found it on paper but couldn't find it online. Appreciate the help.

[lonesomepine]

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