CWD

[Multidigits]

Manitoba issued an order that among other things ban the possession any products containing deer urine or deer scent glands. You can get the whole story on the Bowsite.com.

[Xtreme]

I heard that CWD has been found in a captive Elk facility in Minnesota....Anyone heard this?

[Strutter]

The story about Minnesota is on the bowsite whitetail conference.

[Xtreme]

I read a story in Guns and Gear from a biologist from Texas who claims that we are crazy for going hog wild and shooting all the deer in the effected counties in Wis.

He goes on to state that CWD has been in CO for 40 years and has not wiped out the Mule Deer or Elk yet.

Food for thought.

[MULESKINNER]

Same thing applies to West Nile Virus. A lot of hype but not a real threat.
CWD has been around a long time. It's here to stay. Nothing we can do. Not as big a threat as feared.
L A T E R . . .

[Multidigits]

Shogan--Let's get the discussion in the proper forum. Here's some information that backs what I've been saying. This is from the CWD web site created by the B & C Club and others:

1.-"Experiments are underway in Colorado, Wyoming and Iowa to determine if CWD is transmissible to cattle. Preliminary data have shown that it is extremely difficult to infect cattle with CWD. Only a few cattle became ill after having the CWD pathogen injected directly into their brain. Cattle that have lived in close contact with infected deer and ingesting infected deer brain matter have not developed the disease during the first five years of a ten year study. Based on this information and other research, it appears that there is a substantial biological barrier to transmission of CWD from deer to cattle."

2. Early a report surfaced that said 3 men may have died from CWd in Wisconson. This investigation showed that this did not happen.
See this link:-
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/news.detail/ID/7e1ecc5b177c43849acd01687903802f

In that text, you could find this: "Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease is a fatal degenerative brain condition of humans caused by an abnormally-shaped protein called a prion. It occurs at a rate of about one case per million people throughout the world, and was first described in the 1920s. Chronic wasting disease in deer and elk is also caused by a prion and produces brain lesions similar to CJD in humans, but the deer CWD prion is not the same agent as the human CJD prion. The CWD prion has never been shown to cause human illness."

3.-"Although CWD is a contagious fatal disease among deer and elk, research suggests that humans, cattle and other domestic livestock are resistant to natural transmission. While the possibility of human infection remains a concern, it is important to note there have been no verified cases of humans contracting CWD."

4.-"There is currently no scientific evidence that CWD has or can spread to humans, either through contact with infected animals or by eating meat of infected animals. The Center of Disease Control has thoroughly investigated any connection between CWD and the human forms of TSEs and stated "the risk of infection with the CWD agent among hunters is extremely small, if it exists at all" and "it is extremely unlikely that CWD would be a food borne hazard."

5.- Finally, here's a very detailed overview of the latest information about the disease.--http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.overview[xx(]

[shogan]

Expand your horizons and look at the big picture.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/creutzfeldtjakobdisease.html

It's called Spongiform Encephalopathy

Start looking at the stats of people and ages in Great Britian suddenly it's out of the norm. Whats that their cattle popluatioon was infected. Oh no that Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. Correlation hum maybe I'll stick my head in the sand like the British Gvt did for a while and say it's ok.

Wait it went from cows to humans why not deer to cows. Why not deer to humans. Hey how did it get out of control over there. OH they feed their animals with feed with ground up body parts. Yah we did not do that as much. Oh but wait we do it in captive deer and elk herds. Hum.

This is the same thing Government officicials are thinking and for good reason. Enough already I will never convince you until you have holes in your brain and you will never convince me. So feed your deer with feed with ground up body parts.

[Multidigits]

Your reference is to a different disease-called CJD. It is similar to CWD bu not the same. Quote from above "deer CWD prion is not the same agent as the human CJD prion"

CWD is a different disease--GB doesn't have it To date it's been found only in these areas: The disease was long thought to be limited in the wild to a relatively small endemic area in northeastern Colorado, southeastern Wyoming and southwestern Nebraska, but it has recently been found in new areas of Colorado and Nebraska, as well as in wild deer in New Mexico, South Dakota, Wisconsin and Saskatchewan.

The disease also has been diagnosed in commercial game farms in Colorado, Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota, Montana, Oklahoma, Kansas, Wisconsin, Saskatchewan and Alberta.

Another mis-conception you have is that people are feeding deer with ground up animal products. Where did that come from????? Who and where???
Most people only feed whole corn, wheat or oats--none of these contain animal parts.

[shogan]

If I'm ever on trial for anything but ecspecially murder I want you on the Jury. Because you stand your ground and don't jump to conclusions with mere circumstantial evidence.

I agree in it's natural form Spongiform Encephalopathy is not a huge problem. Though there is enough evedince for me to see that feeding animals ground up animals probably contributes to exponential growth.

[shogan]

They put it in the feed. I realize you may not be aware of this practice however animal parts are gound up and added to corn etc to increase the protein content (protein isn't prion a protein).

[Multidigits]

Shogan whole corn is shucked off the cobb, put in a bag and sewn shut--how in hell could it have animal parts added to it??????

As far the discussion, I believe the facts speak for themselves.

[shogan]

First my reference is to Spongiform Encephalopathy.

In Cattle its called Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy

In humans it's called TSE (Spongiform Encephalopathy) or Creutzfeldt-Jakob.

In sheep Scapie

In deer CWD chronic wasting disease.

They may have different names in different species but it's all Spongiform Encephalopathy. Characterized by holes in the brain and central nervous system tissue. Symptons are loss of control of motor functions and memory ((all them brain functions)). Typically naturally found in 1 in a million and generall affecting older people (not the case in GB).

All of the diseases of the mamammal nervous system a linked to a protien called a prion.

How is it transferred. Well given the tribe in Africa that consumed the brains of dead trible people and the entire tribe contracted it; given livestock of Europe were feed corn with ground up animal parts and contracted it; and given captive elk herds and wild deer herds known to have Spongiform Encephalopathy were feed with feed likely to have ground up animal parts; it's safe to assume that consumption of gournd up animal parts (brain and spinal cord) with the prions will most likely spread the prions.

If you doubt anything I mentioned about go start looking (and beyond the hunting websites). I have presented a well stated and rational hypothesis to state that CWD is not the same as PSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy) is inadequate. The prion is only a protein it is not species specific like a virus or bacteria.

Of course even if I'm wrong isn't it better to error on the side of caution. And do you know how to check if your feed has added protein or (ground up animal parts)?

[GSP]

Has anyone ever seen an answer to this question? Is there any thought given to the possibility that CWD has been around for a long time, but has only recently been discovered?

[shogan]

Multi your stance on the argument that animal products are not added to feed (corn or other) and the fact that you don't know this was common practice in Europe. And the fact that you don't believe this was most likely the case in area's where pockets of CWD exist tells a lot. And before you argue this one single point any more you really need to call someone (I would start with department of agriculture or kdfwr).

I'm not saying all corn but I'm betting the feed most guys pick up at their local hunting store with all the extra goodies in it (protein and calcium) to encourage deer growth (antler growth) have animal products in it. Right now folks are scrambling with doe urine etc (makes sense but thats not the culprit). It's the stuff you guys are feeding the deer.


You wanna give them corn plant some and save all the hassle with the feeder and batteries and so on.

[Multidigits]

Yeah, I look at the little yellow kernals and see that they are intact and haven't been tampered with. Then I pretty much know what a kernal of corn looks like, so I make the descision that "yep, that's pure corn". In the feeder it goes! A 50 lb. bag of whole corn has 875,000 kernals in it. I check all of them to be sure.

As for your well stated, rational hypothesis, these experts in the field discount it on numerous points:

Resources : CWD Experts
Chronic Wasting Diseases Experts
The following wildlife biologists, veterinarians and scientists are actively involved in CWD research, management and/or communications. They are excellent sources for credible information about chronic wasting disease.

Dr. Ermias Belay
Medical Epidemiologist
National Center for Infectious Diseases
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Rd. MS A-39
Atlanta, GA 30333
404-639-3091
ebelay@cdc.gov


Dr. Lynn H. Creekmore
Staff Veterinarian
USDA – APHIS
National Wildlife Research Center
4101 LaPorte Ave.
Fort Collins, CO 80521
970-266-6128
Lynn.H.Creekmore@aphis.usda.gov

Dr. John R. Fischer
Director
Southeastern Cooperative Wildlife Disease Sudy
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602
706-542-1741
jfischer@vet.uga.edu

Dr. William D. Hueston
Director
Center for Animal Health and Food Safety
University of Minnesota
136 Andrew Boss Laboratory
1354 Eckles Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
612-625-8709
huest001@umn.edu

Rick Kahn
Colorado Division of Wildlife
Fort Collins, CO
970-472-4342
rick.kahn@state.co.us

Dr. Terry Kreeger
Wildlife Veterinarian
Wyoming Department of Game and Fish
307-742-6638
tekreege@wyoming.com

Dr. Julie Langenberg
Wildlife Veterinarian
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources
608-266-3143
langej@dnr.state.wi.us

Dr. Michael Miller
Wildlife Veterinarian
Colorado Division of Wildlife
970-472-4348
mike.miller@state.co.us

Bruce Morrison
Assistant Director, Wildlife Division
Nebraska Game and Parks Commission
P.O. box 30370
Lincoln, NE 68503
402-471-5450
Morrison@ngpc.state.ne.us

Dr. Kerry Mower
New Mexico Department of Game and Fish
505-476-8080
kmower@state.nm.us

Dr. Katherine O’Rourke
Research Microbiologist
USDA – ARS
Animal Disease Research Unit
P.O. Box 646630, 3003 ADBF, WSU
Pullman, WA 99164
509-335-6020
korourke@vetmed.wsu.edu

Dr. Rick Race
National Institutes of health
Rocky Mountain Laboratories
Hamilton, MT

Dr. Greg Raymond
National Institutes of Health
Rocky Mountain Laboratories
Hamilton, MT

Dr. Terry Spraker
970-491-1281

Dr. Tom Thorne
Acting Director
Wyoming Game and Fish Department
307-777-4591
tom.thorne@wgf.state.wy.us

Dr. Elizabeth Williams
Pathologist
Wyoming State Veterinary Laboratory
1174 Snowy Range Road
Laramie, WY 82070
307-742-6638
storm@uwyo.edu



Dr. Glen Zebarth
Veterinarian
North American Elk Breeders Association

[Multidigits]

GSP--The disease(CWD) was first found in Colorado in the 1960's. It's known to be in the wild population for at least 40 years in the northeast part of Colorado and parts of Wyoming.

[GSP]

Has there been any large numbers of deer killed by this (by the CWD not the deer shoot)?

[Multidigits]

The number of actual cases found in the wild is very small, for example the nymber of deer found infected in Wis, was less tan 20, I believe 14 or so. Here's a map of the areas of infection and their relation to the uninfected areas

http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.map

[GSP]

I have been looking at the maps and the known history. I'm wondering if we tested every deer killed in KY this year we could still say, "we don't have it".
This stuff does not seem to be like smallpox. Though, I know that prions live "forever".
I guess my point is, this is like the sheep version of scapie (sp?) and they eat out of the same place, water out of the same place, live in confined areas and there is no shortage of sheep?

[CSS archer]

One question....what happens to the deer bones and heads that go through meat processors? Most are picked up by a "bone man" from there they get ground and put into bone meal or fertilizer, or "mineral blocks". I'm only guessing here, don't know. They are bound to be used for something?

[shogan]

Multi I love you man!

I'm not sure why we are arguing if CWD is the Same as BSE and TSE. As you indicated earlier the cure will come from the same source (the cure you spoke of was from mice). The symptoms are the same. And the concern that it can go from deer to humans must follow the rational BSE went from Cows to humans. If you don't want to consider what has happened in Europe and BSE and TSE I can't make you. If you believe it's a different prion I can't argue I have not read anything yet that identifies seperate prions for humans, cows, deer, or sheep.

If you don't believe that some feed products that is able to be purchased has animal by products in it I can't make you.

You are certainly well read. I have obviously read a bit too. We see it differently. Other than that peace! I'm still killing deer and eating them. I just not eating brain or messing with spinal cord.

[Multidigits]

Then you didn't read any of the references that I referred you too. I can't help that your looking at the facts with blinders on. You want to learn about C-W-D, research C-W-D, not C-J-D. Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges!

While your at it, look at Texas for an example. They feed pellets, supplements, and all kinds of things. They don't have C-W-D. Most people in Kentucky use straight whole corn. It's what goes through the spin cast feeders the best and causes less of a plugging problem.
Here's the link again that will INFORM you about the disease that we are talking about. It mentions the diseases that you researched also, as they are similar.

http://www.cwd-info.org

Take time to look at every page of this web site and THEN you will know what CWD is.

[Multidigits]

CSS-- Good question, if those bones present a problem and some think they do, maybe the Dept. should put a ban or restrictions on their disposal instead of infringing on property owners rights to supplemental feeding of deer.

Could be more of a threat here than two deer getting their nose together at a corn station????

[shogan]

How about this how about this country put a ban on all feed, bait, and mineral enhancements containing animal products? And still allow feeders.

[bf4cm28]

Being from Wisconsin and having attended several seminars on CWD I am with GSP on several points I think it has been around for a long time and we are finding it because we are now looking for it. People are naive to think that CWD jumped from Colorado to Wi. We have recently found CWD in another game farm in Wi and now are backtracking the deer to where they came from... another game farm etc.. I think that now that Wisconsin has it, once all the other states start really testing we will find that it is all around. Another question that no one has been able to answer is do some deer have an immunity to it? Can't answer because to test in the wild we have to kill the deer. The biggest thing we can do is to keep hunting and defend our sport!

A true hunter is ethical when someone is watching and when they are alone.

[Multidigits]

Wd information, hot off the press!

1.-Dr. Terry Kreeger of the Wyoming G & F Dept., reports that the CASE RATE of CJD is below the national average in the section of Colorado and Wyoming that is known to have had CWD within it's borders for over 20 years. [8D]

2.Kreeger has tested meat of infected deer and has not found the CWD prions in the meat of said deer. [:D]

3.Kreeger attempted to infect the disease into cattle, pronghorns, moose, and wild sheep. None came down with the disease. [:)]

4.CWD has never been found in the velvet of deer or elk or THEIR URINE

5.Common household bleach will kill the prions on your knife or other meat processing tools if they become infected while butchering an infected animal. [;)]

6.CWD only effects adult animals and has a 17 month incubation period. [B)]

7.Animals infected with CWD in the later stages rarely will be far from water and will often drink continuously and not even leave when humans approach. [:p]

8.A Wisconson man has plans to offer a test kit for CWD to the public. The cost will be about $60 each. [xx(]

[shogan]

Multi is like a wealth of information! He must spend gobbs more time on the net the me. Or he is just going to better sites (we won't go there this is a family channel).

Multi how did he go about trying to infect the other animals.

[Multidigits]

They did so with the isolated prions inan orally administated dose. When that didn't work, the prions were injected into the brain. i would guess this some sort of medical process that Doctors do?
The source for the info above was the Symposiums that were recently held in Denver, Co. and in Grand Rapids, Mn.

There is also an on going indetph study in progress to determine the human susceptibility to CWD. It's being done by the National Institues of Health Laboratory, and is lead by a Dr. Pierluigi Gamberti.

[Valley Station]

Have a question.
If bleach is all that is necessary to decontaminate and "kill" the CWD prion on a knife or deer skull cap, why couldn't Wyoming F&W decontaminate holding pens they held CWD infected deer and elk in? They treated their pens, put new animals in holding pens and they got CWD. Is that correct or did I miss something?

[Multidigits]

Why shouldn't I eat certain parts of my deer and elk?

While the infectious agent that produces Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk has not been positively identified, there is strong evidence to suggest that abnormally shaped proteins, called prions, are responsible. Research indicates that the prions accumulate only in certain parts of infected animals - the brain, eyes, spinal cord, lymph nodes, tonsils and spleen. Based upon these findings, hunters are recommended to bone out their animals and consume only muscle tissue from animals harvested in CWD areas.

How can I reduce the possibility of spreading CWD contaminated tissue when butchering my game?

Prions are concentrated in the brain, spinal cord, lymph glands, tonsils, eyes and spleen. Wear latex or rubber gloves. Bone all meat. Don't saw through bone. Removal of fatty tissue will remove all lymph glands.

How should I clean my knives, saws and other butchering equipment? What destroys prions?

The causative agent is very resistant to disinfection. The best recommendation at this time is to disinfect butchering equipment with strong chlorine bleach (household bleach works well).

[shogan]

We need to put him on jeopardy!

[Xtreme]

I don't know how he [multi] does it either Shogan. He is a veritable fountain of information[:0]

You can't hardly argue with him as he always has the facts[;)]

Now that he has these little face buttons down pat his people skills are approaching "impeccable" status.

Jepoardy be damned. Multi needs to be on "Who wants to be a Milionaire!!....[:o)][:o)][:o)][:D]

[Multidigits]

I think this is a interesting point of view:Date: September 30, 2002
Source: Minnesota Outdoor News


Contacts:
Rob Drieslein



Excerpted from the MN Outdoor News special section this week, by Rob Drieslein:

Living and working at the epicenter of chronic wasting disease (CWD) endemic area in southeastern Wyoming hasn't stopped Dr. Terry Kreeger from hunting and eating venison.

Speaking at the MN CWD Conference in Grand Rapids last month, Kreeger, a researcher and veterinarian with the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, said this:
"Forgive me if I'm somewhat nonchalant about this,... I
consider this a media-driven disease."

And perhaps most telling, rates of spontaneous Creutzfeldt-Jacob among the human population in the endemic CWD area of Wyoming and Colorado are
actually lower than the national average, he said. Three separate studies have never found the CWD prion in venison meat.

This a photo caption of Kreeger and a captive deer:
As part of his research in Wyoming, Dr. Terry Kreeger has worked very closely with animals infected with chronic wasting disease. He also lives, hunts and raises horses in the heart of the CWD-endemic area of southeastern Wyoming. From a personal standpoint, he says, "If I thought it could infect me, I wouldn't live here

[Xtreme]

See what I mean?[;)].....If I ever need to " phone a friend"...it will be Multi[:D]

Multi:...you should be a teacher. Your going to waste at Dopont/Dow!!!![;)]

[Ralph]

Well, Multi, I cut that article out of N.Am. Hunter for nothin. Least I didn't have to type it all in here. You must have a scanner & know how to use it. I have one but can't use it. Only thing I have to say here is about the feed. Shogan is talking about commercially prepared feed that is used by peole in the deer & elk-farming industries. They feed "pellets" that no one knows what contains. I know a little about this since I worked for one of the largest U.S companies that hauls the "offal" to different places to be "cooked down" & added to various feeds. It is in all dog foods, cat foods & deer & elk feed. The processors have no idea if they are cooking down a sheep,deer,elk,cow, or anything else, with any type of disease. I have seen dogs, horses, deer, cattle, hogs & about anything else you can think of, in these trucks headed to a processor.Once it is all cooked down under pressure, you have pure protein. This is then mixed in the commercial feeds & sold. I got some one time in a five-gallon bucket & gave it to my lil brother. The trucker said just feed them a little in with the feed each time & they will put on the weight. My lil brother figured if a little is good, a lot must be better. He killed the hogs in a week feeding them too much protein. Only thing that makes me think, is the fact that you cannot kill this prion with heat, so it would still be in the protein that is mixed with the commercial feed. Interesting thought. Hope I have helped & not confused. This is more a thought on how it may be spread. They know it was in the processed feed in Europe, so why is our feed supposed to be so much better??

[Multidigits]

Sorry about the hole in your magazine, Ralph. [:D]

I know what your saying about the feed pellets. I just don't think most people feed those in their feeders. I've tried Omolene pellets, which is a high protein horse feed for show horses. It kept jamming the feeder because the pellets would draw moisture and swell or stick together. Straight corn works best and is cheaper. It's the feed of choice from what I've seen and heard.

"I got some one time in a five-gallon bucket & gave it to my lil brother" [8D] How'd your brother like the taste of that stuff??? [}:)]

There is a lot not known about the disease. Their working on it as we speak. In my opinion, and in some of the experts that I've comment on this subject, this will not be the demise of whitetail deer. I saw where Dr. Kroll said that Wisconson is making a mistake with the deer kill plans. He recommends using caution but not overreacting to the potential crisis. Keep in mind that a part of Colorado and Wyoming have had this disease for 4 decades and they still have only very few cases so up each year in the wild.

[Ralph]

I hunted several years in the CO CWD area & never saw an animal that had it. It really wasn't a concern to us. As for the feed, at the commercial deer places they don't feed shelled corn all the time. It is mostly a commercial pellet. Trust me when I say to you that no one can tell you what's in that feed. Ever read ingredients & see the catch-word---- "animal by-products"? We know what that means--- everything but the squeal or the moo or the whinny or the baaaaaaaa!! or the meow or the bark of the hiss, etc. etc. etc.

[Multidigits]

Here's a pretty good response from a MD in Wis., found this on the Ind. Bowsite:


To My Deer Hunting Partners,

I have waited about as long as possible to write this and still have some validity for this season's deer hunt. The delay has been due to trying to have as many facts available as possible. One of our greatest pleasures we have enjoyed most of our productive lives was deeply hurt last Winter and Spring when Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) was found in Wisconsin's deer herd. The blame game for introduction of this disease in Wisconsin is long but this is not the topic I want to address. The disease is here and how do each one of us deal with it. The media has had the proverbial field day with this whether using pictures of people who are suspicious that "deer killed my dad, husband, father" etc. Fear, emotion, anger all were brought to a fever pitch and remains there. I am going to outline after some history and facts how I am going to deal with this disease in my life. I can only recommend all of you make your own judgement.

In 1967 CWD was found in Colorado in Deer and Elk.

Our torment began in the Winter of 2002 when Chronic Wasting disease was found in Wisconsin's deer herd near Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin over 150 miles from here.

In July, 2002 an article appeared in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal on CWD. It featured a friend of mine who was convinced at the time that deer or elk were somehow involved in his father's death. The article was very stirring and almost frightening. He came to that conclusion as two other men associated with his father died of a brain disease. One of them was diagnosed as Creuztfield- Jakob Disease (CJD), the same disease his father died of, and the other was reported to have died of a brain disease called Pick's Disease. My friend felt that the Pick's disease very well might have been misdiagnosed and actually might have had the same disease his father died of as it acted quite similarly as he observed it. To review a bit further: CWD (the deer disease) is a spongiform encephalopathy very similar to CJD ( the human disease). As well, Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy or better known as Mad Cow Disease (MCD) is similar in cows. CJD occurs in the natural human population in Wisconsin in about one for every million deaths. After reading this article, if three people new each other died of what was called CJD it would seem that this would overwhelm that usual statistic of one per million people per year and that these people died of some infective disease they mutually contracted by some activity they all enjoyed. The newspaper article implied this was hunting deer, eating deer or elk together or perhaps just cleaning deer. It seems they all did one of those things associated with each other in some way. The "evidence" was supposedly in, and conclusions were drawn by many people! If I clean deer or eat deer I might get this terrible disease. Your wives and maybe even you have outlawed deer from your table.

This article and its seemingly very convincing evidence prompted an investigation that I participated in involving the Center for Disease Control (CDC) out of Atlanta and the Wisconsin Division of Health as well.

The chief investigator was a physician specializing in infectious diseases and with an added qualification of a Masters in Public Health. He brought with him a nurse and a Senior Medical Student from the University of Wisconsin. My task was the same as many others contacted and it was to point out any associations or people involved. Places they lived, worked and played. I took him to Brule, Wisconsin and introduced him to people who were involved in the game feeds at the Waterhouse Cabin. The investigation became self sustaining after the initial introductions to the people involved was made. I have been in contact with investigators only keeping track of their progress and conclusions to date. As of this writing the following information on the above investigation has been reported:

1. There is no evidence that venison or elk hunted by those associated with the Waterhouse Group was ever hunted in the west in endemic areas for CWD.

2. They have contacted most of the members of the wild game feast group at the Waterhouse cabin and there have been no further cases of CJD or the spongiform encephalopathy like CWD in any members.

3. One of the three men previously diagnosed with Pick's Disease did not have any prion disease or CJD.

4. There has been no increase reported in CJD in Wisconsin in Ten years.

5. Mr. Botts another of the three men was not a frequent visitor to the Waterhouse Cabin. ( in fact the investigators think he only ate wild game once at the cabin)

7. Muscle tissue in infected venison has not been shown to harbor prions.

8. Since 1967 scientists have searched for connection between CWD and humans and have not found it. There was a recent article in an Outdoor Journal in Wisconsin reporting a man with terminal CJD in the West who had a brain biopsy while alive. Physicians could not connect the CWD prion with the human prion form of the disease he had- CJD. His daughter is still convinced the deer is killing her dad. This is powerful stuff to print.

9. What is the proven incidence of CWD in Man? The answer is zero.

I can give the incidence of you getting struck by lightening and you are comforted that you are fairly safe.

I can give you the incidence of you getting West Nile Virus and in fact 46 people have died of this in US so far and yet- you don't keep your kids or yourself from going outside on warm days.

There is an incidence of you getting the dreaded E Coli bacteria from eating meat and yet you don't stop eating meat either at home or in restaurants.

There is, indeed, an incidence of you developing MCD (Mad Cow Disease) as you are residents of the world and yet you freely and without fear, eat beef.

As of October 11, 2002, based on evidence so far there is no reason to conclude that there is evidence to link Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) to humans or the human form of the disease-CJD.

All the above being said then why does the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources ( DNR) make a big thing about cleaning and processing deer to the point of making you almost afraid to be near a deer. The statements have convinced some hunters and spouses to not let the meat in the house despite the above findings. What is going on here?

To explain the last statement you're going to have to read a bit more. I hope I can explain clearly for you.

Mad Cow Disease(MCD) is the Spongiform Encephalopathy-the prion disease- in cows. It is the brain disease similar to CWD in deer and CJD in humans. About 1995 a variant form of MCD was discovered in humans in England. Most of us remember the sights of the infected cows being destroyed or in their final stages of the disease on television. It was not a pretty site. How was this isolated? No prions were found in meat.

In England as in many places in the world people eat brain tissue. In the English locality where the disease was first isolated there were two butchers. One of them made head cheese- brains for sale and another did not. The people who contracted this variant form of the MCD all bought their meat at the butcher who worked with and sold brains for food. This is where the infective tissue is and where the prion resides. It appears these people got their infection from eating brains or from contaminated meat from equipment used to process brains. The most recent statistic I have seen is over 150 people have died of this disease and the disease is in over 18 additional countries. None has been found in this country to date, but our testing has been only recently getting up to speed. There is an incidence for any of us to get MCD as we are residents of the world.

Even though, since 1967 we have worked to prove or find CWD in humans it has not been found. Yes, there has been one prion disease transferred to humans and it was from the cow not a deer despite constant surveillance and searching. With that being said does it make sense to wear gloves when you clean a deer? Yes. Does it make sense not to eat sick deer? Yes. Does it make sense not to eat deer brain? Yes. Does it make sense not to eat eyes, tonsil or lymph tissue? Yes. Does it make sense to bone out your deer and not get spinal tissue on your meat? Yes. It is impossible to say you will never get CWD but this is as close we can get to saying a zero chance. You can "Never say never" in medicine.

I hope this has put some perspective on this topic that involves most all of us who live in the North and treat deer as a very big part of our lives. I am going to hunt and eat venison killed in Wisconsin.

Fred Bannister, M.D. Chetek, WI