Garden Question (tomato's)

[headoftheholler]

We have around 100 tomato plants that are your regular hybrid high producing type tomatos and then we have about 20 heirloom plants (black krim, mennonite, german, ect). All the plants are doing great, getting tall, plenty of blooms and lots of tomatos on the vines but the heirlooms are getting eat up by beetles while the hybrids aren't even being touched. I'm going to dust the heirlooms tonight, but why are the hybrids not being touched while the heirlooms are covered with beetles (kinda yellow with spots on them-the same ones that were eating on the potato plants earlier this year)?
On a side note, just got permission from a neighbor to garden a good 5 acre bottom next year. It hasn't been used and allowed to grow up for about 5 years now, but I figured with some good prep this fall we should be able to hedge growing food prices next year with this extra acreage.

[barney]

Sounds like Colorado potato beetles, they will eat potatoes, tomatoes, and litteraly LOVE eggplant. As to why they are just eating your heirlooms, I don't have a clue, as they have fed on every variety I have ever grown over the years. One thought, did you have potatoes in that spot last year? Because, when they emerge from the ground, if a food plant is close.........they will just dine there, instead of looking for food.

I rotate my potato crop every other year or so to keep them at bay.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Colorado_potato_beetle.jpg/800px-Colorado_potato_beetle.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Colorado_potato_beetle.jpg)

[Scott7m]

we spray the rows with a light mist of something, can't remember the name...... well anyway... it's about 120 dollars for a half pint of it, and a teaspoon will spray 1000 feet of rows.. haven't seen a bug since we started using it

[headoftheholler]

Barn,

This might explain, my potato patch is right next to the heirlooms (!). I just got into the heirlooms this year after I had planted my regular hybrid plants, so they went in a different section of the garden. Any varieties of hierlooms you reccomend? I'm really looking forward to the black krims (never tried) and the germans with the yellow/ red swirl. Tomatos are the main reason I garden, I love 'em. You know that smell from tomato vines, I could wear that as colonge.

[aceoky]

Tomatos are the main reason I garden, I love 'em. You know that smell from tomato vines, I could wear that as colonge.
__________________


Same here , i LOVE fresh , home grown tomatoes!

Picked five nice ones today for our 4th dinner :D

[C.L.Button]

Most of mine never get ripe. :o They end up fried green. :D

[aceoky]

Most of mine never get ripe. :o They end up fried green. :D

We "used to have that same problem" :D Solution? Plant 50 or so more plants!! :D :D

[barney]

Barn,

This might explain, my potato patch is right next to the heirlooms (!). I just got into the heirlooms this year after I had planted my regular hybrid plants, so they went in a different section of the garden. Any varieties of hierlooms you reccomend? I'm really looking forward to the black krims (never tried) and the germans with the yellow/ red swirl. Tomatos are the main reason I garden, I love 'em. You know that smell from tomato vines, I could wear that as colonge.
I'm like you, I don't think I have grown a tomato I didn't like. I joined Seed Savers Exchange, back in the early 90's, to have access to thousands of different varieties of heirloom tomatoes, and I have grown hundreds of different varieties over the years............I have a few fav's I continue to grow from time to time and one is Brandywine, probably the best tasting tomato in the world, hands down! Another is Radiator Charlie's Mortgage Lifter, a very flavorful and HUGE pink tomato, with an interesting history.

The following history is based on portions of our 1985 taped interview with M.C. Byles who developed this tomato in the early 1930's while in Logan, WV. Mr Byles is affectionately known as "Radiator Charlie". He earned that nickname from the radiator repair business he opened at the foot of a steep hill on which trucks would often overheat. Radiator Charlie had no formal education or plant breeding experience, yet he created this legendary tomato by cross-breeding four of the largest-fruited tomatoes he could find: 'German Johnson', 'Beefsteak', an Italian variety, and an English variety. One of the four varieties was planted in the middle of a circle. Then, using a baby's ear syringe, he cross-pollinated the center plant with pollen from the circle of tomatoes. Next year he selected the best seedlings: he planted the best seedings in the center and the rest in a circle around it. The pollination and selection process was repeated six more years until he had a stable variety. After Charlie developed and named this large tasty tomato, he sold plants for $1.00 each (in the 1940's) and paid off the $6000 mortgage on his house in 6 years. Each spring, gardeners drove asfar as 200 miles to buy Charlie's seedling tomatoes.] Fruits of 'Mortgage Lifter' can average 2-1/2lbs and may reach 4 lbs when well grown. Plants are very productive, disease resistant, and continue to bear until frost. These large, slightly flattened, pink-red tomatoes are meaty and flavorful with few seeds.

[barney]

Most of mine never get ripe. :o They end up fried green. :D
I can eat stacks an stacks of fried green tomatoes.:eek:

[KYBOY]

I have about 20 mortgage lifters right now. Then german johnsons, big boys and better boys. Several of my seeds are older than anyone on this forum(in a manner of speaking) My greasy beans have past down for the last three generations I know of. Same with the pole beans. Winter onions too..

[peckprice]

We used to have trouble with Colorado Potato Beetles, but two years ago I bought a pint of Platinum and I haven't seen a potato beetle. I gave $140 for the chemical, but it is well worth it. For a 3 gallon sprayer, You use about a tablespoon. The neat thing is that you just have to spray the plants or seed potatos when planting and you are done. Another equally effective pesticide is Admire, which is a little more expensive, but it works the same way.

[huntindawoods]

I will just be glad when my tomatoes get ripe I haven't eaten a tomatoe sice the salmolia out break and I love em' but it ain't no tomatoe taste like one right out of the garden

[Scott7m]

We used to have trouble with Colorado Potato Beetles, but two years ago I bought a pint of Platinum and I haven't seen a potato beetle. I gave $140 for the chemical, but it is well worth it. For a 3 gallon sprayer, You use about a tablespoon. The neat thing is that you just have to spray the plants or seed potatos when planting and you are done. Another equally effective pesticide is Admire, which is a little more expensive, but it works the same way.

admire is what we use... i couldn't think of that to save my life

[barney]

admire is what we use... i couldn't think of that to save my life
I refuse to feed my children any crop which has had a chemical like this applied to it. The active ingredient in Admire is systemic, and long lasting, and remains in the produce we eat. Almost every single potato.......and most vegatables we buy, has Admire or its equal, inside of it. While I am not an organic gardener, I refuse to eat any insecticide, that is inside of produce!! I don't have a clue, why cancer, autisum and other serious illness is skyrocketing?

Admire is a long-lasting pesticide that could endure for years in a farm field, and some beekeepers complain that the chemical is finding its way into the clover, and being fatally ingested by bees.
"Last year, everybody said the culprit was Admire," says Daniel Ficza, who owns 500 hives and is president of the P.E.I. Beekeeper's Co-op.
Mr. Ficza remains suspicious of Admire, but is not certain it is to blame for the high and sudden honeybee deaths in his industry.
"It's hard to tell," he says. "There are a lot of chemical sprays here on the island for potatoes. It could be anything."
The active chemical in Admire -- imidacloprid -- has been called a hazard to bees elsewhere in the world. The pesticide has been banned in parts of France for several years, ever since honeybees there began showing signs of disorientation, and subsequently died, near sunflower fields treated with the chemical.
A beekeeper in North Dakota is also suing Bayer Inc., the company that makes Admire, claiming his bees suffered high losses after foraging on crops sprayed with imidacloprid.
...............

[headoftheholler]

I refuse to feed my children any crop which has had a chemical like this applied to it. The active ingredient in Admire is systemic, and long lasting, and remains in the produce we eat. Almost every single potato.......and most vegatables we buy, has Admire or its equal, inside of it. While I am not an organic gardener, I refuse to eat any insecticide, that is inside of produce!! I don't have a clue, why cancer, autisum and other serious illness is skyrocketing?
...............
What is in the Seiven dust? We use it sparingly but it seems to do the job.

[barney]

What is in the Seiven dust? We use it sparingly but it seems to do the job.
Carbaryl, is the active ingredent, it an oldie but very safe and effective on any garden pest except........the Colorado potato beetle.

Carbaryl "may" kill the beetles in areas where its never been used before, but they build immunity very quickly, and within a couple of years they will eat it for desert!

[Rabbit Runner]

That Admire sure does a good job in the tobacco field too!!! It was $93 a pint this year.

[ptbrauch]

Could part of the reason the bugs are on the heirlooms and not the hybrids is that the hybrids you planted were bred to be pest resistant?

[headoftheholler]

Could part of the reason the bugs are on the heirlooms and not the hybrids is that the hybrids you planted were bred to be pest resistant?
Thats what I was thinking. ? ? ?

[drakeshooter]

I've heard of disease resistant plants, but how do you make a plant pest resistant?

[barney]

I've heard of disease resistant plants, but how do you make a plant pest resistant?
It has been done with sweetcorn,and a very few other vegatables by the addition of the Bt gene. But no tomatoes .........yet!

Bt-corn is a type of genetically modified organism, termed GMO. A GMO is a plant or animal that has been genetically modified through the addition of a small amount of genetic material from other organisms through molecular techniques. Currently, the GMOs on the market today have been given genetic traits to provide protection from pests, tolerance to pesticides, or improve its quality. Examples of GMO field crops include Bt-potatoes, Bt-corn, Bt-sweet corn, Roundup Ready soybeans, Roundup Ready Corn, and Liberty Link corn.

Genetically modified foods are foods derived from GMO crops. For example, corn produced through biotechnology is being used in many familiar foods, including corn meal and tortilla chips. In addition, corn is used to make high fructose corn syrup, which is used as a sweetener in many foods such as soft drinks and baked goods. While the FDA (U.S. Food and Drug Administration) regulates genetically modified foods, it considers Bt-corn to be nutritionally equivalent to traditional corn.

To transform a plant into a GMO plant, the gene that produces a genetic trait of interest is identified and separated from the rest of the genetic material from a donor organism. Most organisms have thousands of genes, a single gene represents only a tiny fraction of the total genetic makeup of an organism.

A donor organism may be a bacterium, fungus or even another plant. In the case of Bt corn, the donor organism is a naturally occurring soil bacterium, Bacillus thuringiensis, and the gene of interest produces a protein that kills Lepidoptera larvae, in particular, European corn borer. This protein is called the Bt delta endotoxin. Growers use Bt corn as an alternative to spraying insecticides for control of European and southwestern corn borer.

Bt Delta Endotoxin

The Bt delta endotoxin was selected because it is highly effective at controlling Lepidoptera larvae, caterpillars. It is during the larval stage when most of the damage by European corn borer occurs. The protein is very selective, generally not harming insects in other orders (such as beetles, flies, bees and wasps). For this reason, GMOs that have the Bt gene are compatible with biological control programs because they harm insect predators and parasitoids much less than broad-spectrum insecticides. The Bt endotoxin is considered safe for humans, other mammals, fish, birds, and the environment because of its selectivity. Bt has been available as a commercial microbial insecticide since the 1960s and is sold under many trade names. These products have an excellent safety record and can be used on many crops until the day of harvest.

To kill a susceptible insect, a part of the plant that contains the Bt protein (not all parts of the plant necessarily contain the protein in equal concentrations) must be ingested. Within minutes, the protein binds to the gut wall and the insect stops feeding. Within hours, the gut wall breaks down and normal gut bacteria invade the body cavity. The insect dies of septicaemia as bacteria multiply in the blood. Even among Lepidoptera larvae, species differ in sensitivity to the Bt protein.

Genetic Modification

Do Bt-corn hybrids differ only in that they possess the genetic code to produce the Bt protein? Not exactly. To add a trait to a crop plant, the gene must be inserted along with some additional genetic material. This additional genetic material includes a promoter sequence that, in part, determines how the new trait is expressed in the plant. For example, the promoter may cause to protein to be expressed in certain parts of the plants or only during a particular period of time. There is a marker gene that allows plant breeders to easily determine which plants have been transformed. Herbicide and antibiotic tolerance promoters are commonly used to identify transformed plants. There may also be a plasmid or vector sequence that allows for rapid multiplication of the gene of interest in a bacterial host prior to insertion in the crop plant.

[ptbrauch]

I'm not saying that I know its happened, but you very well could do it the same way Radiator Joe (or whatever his name was) did it. It would be the same idea except instead of looking for size, look for ones that bugs seem not to prefer.

[GSP]

Barney,
You have much issues with ear worms on your corn? You do any preventative work on them?

[barney]

Barney,
You have much issues with ear worms on your corn? You do any preventative work on them?
Yes and no........Most early corn will have very few worms, and only at the tip. At farmers markets I have seen but a very few people turned off by this minor damage. Most people say nothing.........But, I have had a few people shuck an ear down, and say "Theres worms in it" And I say.....Oh, but the meat is free........or, I guarantee, a worm in every ear, or your money back!:D They always go on and take it. Or I tell them I can put that "deadly poison spray" on it to keep the worms out, like they do "store bought corn".....but I didn't........and they go on and take it.

But to answer your question, Later plantings of corn say, any that will be harvested from mid to late July on, can have severe earworm damage, even going into the sides of the ear making them unmarketable. These later plantings, I spray with an insecticide, any one labled for corn will do. Any insecticide, with "Permethrin" as the active agent, don't work well when temps. are high....... upper 80's or higher, Seven, works well. Start when the silks first emerge, and spray a couple of times about 5 days apart, aiming the spray at the ear and silks. This should take care of your corn. But if your silks are turning brown......no amount of spray will do any good, as most eggs are laid on emerging silk, and the tiny worm eats his way down very quickly....and once hes in the ear, its to late!

[barney]

I'm not saying that I know its happened, but you very well could do it the same way Radiator Joe (or whatever his name was) did it. It would be the same idea except instead of looking for size, look for ones that bugs seem not to prefer.
I have grown Literally 100's of tomato varieties, some dating back to the 1880's, and up to the newest, recently released, hybrid cultivars. and I have never found one the tater bugs didn't like!

But, it could "possibally" be done by selection. The problem is, most people never selected a tomato for pest resistance, but, in favor of....... flavor, shape, color, or size.............and now recently, from how many feet, could one be dropped onto a concrete floor.........and not bruse it!:eek:

[headoftheholler]

Well, looks like I dusted just in the nick of time, will lose 2 plants that were nearly eat in half by the tater bugs, still have plenty left though. Seems like the Seiven dust worked really well, even after 3 thunderstorms there is still light dust residue on the plants.