Something Fishy. [Paddlefish]

[Xtreme]

Folks this deal goes beyond the F&W dept. As a matter of fact they are in nearly the same boat as us. They have been asked for input. This is one of those money grant deals if we are not carefull will blow by us before we know it.

I have the words of the letter already in mind [ I know this vote will pass , duh?]...I need the names of State reps. Congressmen etc. who will listen to this cause.

This cannot come to pass. Do you want the next State or World record Striper, Smallmouth, Catfish or any other trophy fish that we the Sportsmen of this state paid for to be killed in a gill net?

Never mind the 8 inch square stuff. Just watch the Discovery Channell and watch the Dolphins get caught in the "tuna" nets.

Don't get me wrong....I like fried paddlefish as much as the next person. If you want some go snag one behind Ky. Lake Dam like every one else.

[ez]

ten four.............this sport needs to be in the tough man arena......NO gill nets........if you have ever tried this sport you work for the fish and appreciate it when it's in the pan frying....if we allow this to pass it will be the same as my handle.........ez

[GSP]

You are correct Xtreme about the dept. They have to remain netural in this and gather public input per the general assembly. I have witnessed pain in their faces when the have given the spill to people concerning this. From what I can gather it seems to only have one sponser,
Representative Roger Thomas (D)
I will get conformation on this. I'm planning on getting a resolution against this from the 6th Federation LKS next Wed. I hope I can nail down more facts then.
By the way, they are saying 6" gill nets, not 8".

[mossyhorns]

TVA implemented gill netting on KY lake in the early 80's to get rid of "rough" fish. We still have plenty rough fish but I suspect a lot fewer big catfish (including paddlefish), big bass, big crappie, big stripes, etc. Gill netting is strictly a commercial venture. Sport does not enter into the equation.

[raktrakr]

if they're trying to do this in the reseviors(sp), wouldnt the army corp of engineers have some say in this? im not sure,but i believe i heard somewhere that in order to build a dock for your personal use, you have to go through the a.c.e. to get a permit or something in order to do this. and if thats the case wouldnt they have to get an o.k. to commercially catch these paddlefish from the corp... i dont know,its just a thought

[Xtreme]

The sad part about the gill nets on Ky. lake is there is a heck of a big difference between Ky. lake and a little one such as Barren, Nolin, Rough etc. We will fight this lunacy.

[Birdman]

Boys there is more behind this than has been stated here. Our agriculture department at Ky. State is behind this, as well as the state agriculture department . Their looking at alternative farming source, Now this representative Roger Thomas may be pushing the issue but the education department is where it got started. Against it, yes but when your talking alternative food sources you have a fight on your hands.

If you remember in the early 90's the catch fish programs that were started, this is a spin off of that. So if we as a group are going to fight this we better get our shit together and stand tuff, as soon as possible.

[mossyhorns]

The way to combat this is to insist to lawmakers that the funding be used for fish FARMS -- private aquaculture. This will give the state their needed benefit for alternate agriculture without jeapordizing the public fisheries.

[Xtreme]

Birdman, I intend to get caught up on some letter writing this weekend regarding some issues we have already voted on and I intend to start talking with folks about contacting local legislators regarding this issue.

Does anyone know how much time we have on this?

The good thing about dealing with politicians is they all have E-mail. You don't have to mail them letters or send faxes like some of our commisioners.

Also.....If anyone knows the list of lakes to be affected please post on here. We need to contact any guide services on these lakes as it will affect their dinner plates.

Also Ronnie or Rick A. if you could please post a brief explanation on here of what is proposed for those that are unaware of the gist of this. I think Big 58 would like a few more details and I'm sure he could shed some light on what and who we need to talk to.

[GSP]

Here is what I know, except what Tom B has told us.

Reservoir ranching is a new agricultural industry proposed for KY that involves the stocking of hatchery-reared fish into a public reservoir and allowing them to grow to a marketable size. After reaching a marketable size, the fish will be harvested only in the winter months and locally processed for commercial use.

Paddlefish reservoir ranching is being proposed for several public reservoirs in KY such as Beshear, Taylorsville, Barren River, Dewey, Herrington and Rough River lakes. A total of 20,000 acres of water over 10 years (stocking 2,000 acres/year) is being proposed for stocking.

Biological impacts to sport fish in the stocked reservoirs are not completely known, however, canidate waters will be monitored and if negative impacts are determined to be caused by the paddlefish, the paddlefish will be removed.

Paddlefish will be:
1) Produced as 3-5 pound fish on KY’s farms for reservoir stocking.
2) Stocked at 5 fish/acre and will be incapable of reproducing.
3) About 30/fish pounds in 10 years.
4) Harvested (2000 acres/year) by commercial fishermen under a special permit beginning 10 years after the stocking.
5) Prepared for distribution in KY processing plants.

Public opinion to be obtained.
The KY General Assembly passed a requirement during the 2002 lesiglative swssion for the Dept of F&W to cooperate with KY State University Aquaculture Resarch Center to determine the level of public support for commercial paddlefish ranching.

Public meetings are planned for Bowling Green, Louisville and Morehead in Sept, 2002.
A mail survey of the general public and licensed angler will be conducted in Sept also.
A report and recommendation will be submitted to a legislative committee in November 2002

[Birdman]

Rick to make sure we're correct on all the issues, I suggest you get in touch with Roy (what did I just say) and get the full story as they have it. That way we know or should know what is going on.


PS hadn't read Ricks post before posting this and I don't know how in the hell I missed it. Sorry Rick.

Edited by - Birdman on 08/29/2002 1:40:26 PM

[mossyhorns]

Here's the official KDFWR news release I just recvd:

Statewide News Release (08/29/02nm)
>From Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources

For immediate release Contact (800) 858-1549

Public Meetings Set on Reservoir Ranching of Paddlefish

Frankfort, KY, August 29, 2002 - Officials from Kentucky State
University will lead three public meetings to gauge support or opposition
for the concept of raising paddlefish in public lakes. Meetings will be
held in Louisville, Morehead and Bowling Green.
The experimental concept of reservoir ranching involves stocking
paddlefish and allowing them to grow in public lakes. A winter harvest
would occur in 8-10 years by commercial fishermen using gill nets.
The Kentucky General Assembly passed a resolution requiring Kentucky
State University, the Kentucky Aquaculture Task Force and Kentucky
Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources to hold meetings to explain how
this concept of reservoir ranching works, where it could take place and what
effects it may have on the aquaculture industry or sportfishing.
Farmers, anglers and other recreational users, processors and
retailers are encouraged to attend one of these meetings to learn more about
this proposed industry in Kentucky. Lakes that may be considered for the
experimental ranching concept are Beshear, Taylorsville, Barren River, Nolin
River, Dewey, Herrington and Rough River lakes.
The Louisville meeting will be September 10 at 7:30 p.m. in Memorial
Auditorium. From west Watterson, take I-65 north to St. Catherine. Turn
right onto 5th Street, get in left lane, go one block and turn left into
alley at light for free parking. Entrance is on 4th Street.
The Morehead area meeting is set for September 12 at 7:30 p.m. in the Carl
Perkins Building off KY 32. Take I-64 to KY 32 exit at Morehead. The
Bowling Green area meeting is slated for September 19, at 7:30 Central Time,
at the Holiday Inn on Wilkinson Trail (Scottsville Rd.), near the convention
center.
XXX

[GSP]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>X- Folks this deal goes beyond the F&W dept. As a matter of fact they are in nearly the same boat as us. They have been asked for input. This is one of those money grant deals if we are not carefull will blow by us before we know it.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

You are correct here. This is an issue that everyone that belongs to other clubs needs to take issue with and let their opinions known.

If everyone wonders why I am so hot on this one, you need to read between a few lines here. The trophey fish is an issue. The unknown biological impact is an issue.
What really sticks out if this goes is the support and enforcement of law on this and over see the operations/regulations. Who's gonna do it? You can bet your butt the CO's and fisheres dept will get nailed with this. I for one see our CO's already over worked at this time. Also the harvest season will be hitting in prime hunting seasons.
I just see this as a large burdon that is going to be placed on the Dept. and a great potential loss of LARGE fish.

[Multidigits]

This topic has made it to Jim Dicken's www.fishin.com site. Here's a link to their message boards:http://www.fishin.com/cgi-bin2/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID16&conf=DCConfID8

he Jim Strader Show on sunday night's if you haven't heard of him. i also sent him an email advising that the Cyberhunters will oppose this measure.

[shogan]

I think this stinks of rotten fish. Lets see I want some state land for free so that I can run a business. How is this creating enconomically independent farmers. Why don't we just pay them to sit on their a**. It would cost us less in the long run. This is not going to help the local land holding farmers and we certianly don't need fleets of boats coming in from some place else. Are they also going to grow replacements for all the non sterile fish that are killed. Last year I raised tobacco but this year I sold my land bought these boats and this yellow rain suit now I'm a commerical fisherman.

WHY WHY WHY. I know the prawn farmers come to us to get a loan to buy land and dig prawn ponds, catfish, chickens, etc. Why does the state have to put this wild hair idea to create more welfair recipents. Except for the full a handfull of full time farmers. Most of the land owners in this state either part time farm (cause they like it) or lease it out to some one who manages thousands of acres(that someone is a local farmer buy the way). Do you know how hard it is to get help. People don't want to work where are all the paddle fish workers going to come from. Hey if were going to have a wild idea lets have these misplaced farmers(biggest misnomer) use their land for a wild idea. Lets see they could grow elk and start a hunting ranch. They could form a coop and grow some freaking decent vegetables ((Wayne county did it)). I wan't to scream! One farmer said "I make 250,000 dollars a year after expenses but you bet I don't show a profit cause I'm not going to pay any taxes I'll go buy a piece of equipment and sit it in that shed if I have to" No Joke. then he pointed to the equipment.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!
My goat is got. "Which by the way looks more appealing than paddlefish because all the foreigners love goat meat"

[Xtreme]

Gsp , I smelled a skunk the moment I heard this proposal. It took a while to smolder to a flame but Shogan has hit this on the head. This whole deal reaks of GUV. Commodities at the fishing license buyers expense!

[GSP]

Yes he did, but he left out one more part. They are only talking a few lakes here, so who of the Guvs buddies will be awarded the contacts???

[Multidigits]

Anybody that wants to research this deal can find all the info they need and more on the link I provided above. This was a topic on the Jim Strader radio show a few weeks ago. The fishin.com guest on the show has done his homework on the issue. This is Ag Dept. driven. Seems fish farmers now have competition fron Vietnam and other Asian countries on regular catfish and their profits are suffering. This is a good potential for income. The eggs from ONE paddlefish will be worth about $200 each. Private fisherman can harvest and sell the caviar also, of course you can't use a gill net.

[Xtreme]

I also submit that the meetings and surveys are once again "where we get caught with our pants down"? The average Joe has no idea of this.

99.9% of the folks that this will affect will not be able to attend these meetings due to , work, family, geological location etc.

We must address this with the folks around us and speak for the masses that we represent.

This is what we are about and will be about!........Rick.

[Multidigits]

Anybody that wants to research this deal can find all the info they need and more on the link I provided above. This was a topic on the Jim Strader radio show a few weeks ago. The fishin.com guest on the show has done his homework on the issue. This is Ag Dept. driven. Seems fish farmers now have competition fron Vietnam and other Asian countries on regular catfish and their profits are suffering. This is a good potential for income. The eggs from ONE paddlefish will be worth about $200 each. Private fisherman can harvest and sell the caviar also, of course you can't use a gill net.

[Xtreme]

After haveing read and reread the guidelines of this it is easy to see how a "smooth talker" could slip this through. It appears as "not so bad" i.e. ten years down the road, 2000 acres a year etc. etc. Thats O.K. until the 2000 acres is a lake near one of us.

BUT....

a. In the winter time the lakes are at winter pool stage. It wont take much of a net to "dredge" a good bit of water in which several species will be contained.

b. WHO..is going to monitor and make sure the boundaries and guidelines are met?

c. Once "Bubba" finds out there is fish out there worth two hundred bucks?....Y'all get the picture.

I've just placed a phone call or two to some squeaky wheels and I am going to print up some fliers to be posted in some bait shops and boat docks giveing info about this and the meetings that are planned.

[ky_great_white_bowhunter]

Hey Xtreme, if you can get Xcutter and Myself some we can put them up here.

[Xtreme]

I will and you guys spread the word on this at Morehead. One of the meetings will be there. You two clowns better join cyberhunters to!!

[mossyhorns]

Here is the problem in a nutshell: As long as wildlife is used for sport hunting or fishing, everyone is more interested in the pepetuation of the sport and the resource. Any time wildlife (or any resource, for that matter) is used for commercial gain, the resourse WILL (not "can" or "could" or "might") be exploited for financial gain until either the resource or the demand is gone.

This is what happened prior to the 20th century when ducks and deer and elk and bison were all but wiped out. It was not because everyone enjoyed hunting so much, but market hunters could exploit the resourse for financial gain.

This was most recently demonstrated on Kentucky Lake by mussel harvesting. There have always been a few people taking mussels and selling the shells, but when the price when sky-high, everyone tried to get in on the act and in a few years wiped out the resource by harvesting mussels by every illegal method they could think of. They would not sacrifice short term gains to preserve the resource. Ask anyone who fishes KY Lake what happened to the submerged cover along the old TN River channel.

THis is exactly what will happen in this case. When it becomes profitable to harvest paddlefish, exploiters will come out of the woodwork and will wipe out the resource by hook or crook -- taking sport fishing down the tubes with them. Our goal should be in the exact opposite direction -- take away the commercial aspect of public game. Eliminate the harvest of public animals that can be sold for a profit (not talking about outfitters here).

[shogan]

multi will the paddle fish have eggs if they are sterile as indicated by someone on this post prevously

Our profits in the aquaculture are constantly in competition with the asians (crawfish in Lousiana). Thats the way of it. Thats no reason to start raping our public waters. Commerical Aquaculture needs to be funded by private commerical dollars and not left to the tax payers to shoulder the burden and then have to clean up. They need to buy/build thier own lake. Maybe lake Herington is for sale isn't that commerically owned. Maybe they should look at land along the ohio river and other rivers that could be turned into aquaducts that would allow them contolled containment etc. No reason to turn over public waters if there is so much money in it then they can get a loan and buy it.

[Xtreme]

First off...shogan, when are you going to join us? It's obvious you can think on your feet[as well as speak from your a$$]<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> humor!..

It's looking like the guys on Fishin.com are cranked up as well. There are a couple over there that could be kin to me and multi!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Let me tell you what happens when we start dicking around with "agriculture fish". I admit the paddlefish is native to Ky....BUT!!....not in the numbers that they want to stock in our lakes. They are SUPPOSED to be sterile. They are also supposed to have "caviar" sans the ability to fertilize.

How many of you have heard about the University of Arkansas "Big Head Carp" project that went awry? They had this asian fish that swims around eating plankton and algae just like a paddlefish. It tastes like Tuna. The fat content is near zilch. They had a flood and the fish got out of some of the experimental ponds and got into the Miss. river. Just a few years later we now have a foriegn fish in our rivers with a voracious appetite and some of my friends that bowfish are regularly shooting 40 plus pound fish.

They are fast replaceing native fish in the Ohio and other river food chains. There are nights that bowfishermen that I talk to report that they are almost all they see.

The problem is not "replaceing" agriculture for aquaculture but working to see that the poor old god fearing American farmer can get a decent price for WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW HOW TO RAISE!! and if the VIETNAMESE can raise fish and sell them cheaper over here then we have a problem by not chargeing enough tariff on their damn cheap fish. Make the Vietnamese pay ....not the God fearing tag and license buying sportsmen of this state!

[mossyhorns]

Xtreme, the bighead carp problem is more serious than that. You now have 10#+ fish jumping into boats on the Mississippi River. I have video tape footage of two-pound fish jumping into my father-in-laws boat 3 years ago (they showed some of the footage on Louisville TV last year). A boat passing in shallow water will trigger the carp to jump out of the water. Not just 1 or 2, but a whole school en masse. The situation is now dangerous to boaters and fishermen on the Mississippi.

[MULESKINNER]

XTREME,
H A R U M P H ! ! !

[Xtreme]

Thanks for the vote of confidence there gentlemen. You know it's a shame. We now have cleaned up the Ohio and other rivers to where fish can and do now flourish. Some of the "no eat" warnings have even been lifted. I once remember if you pulled a fish out of the Ohio it had a gas mask on!

Now it seems that a healthy river system has been invaded by a "Agricuture fish" on steroids. If they want to gill net something they ought to practice it on the big head carp and sell them back to Asia for their Sushi!

[shogan]

Who's bright idea to import carp we have so much freaking carp around here like we need more.

If we create a market for paddlefish the same way they undercut us on catfish will happen with paddlefish.

Yep it's not create new. It's maximize what we have.

Now I have to look for made in america on my catfish what next. Waitor is that american catfish you serve.

Checks in the mail

[shogan]

Who ever said they were posting flyers send me what your posting and I will do some posting of my own.

[Xtreme]

I'm going to make some flyers this weekend Shogan. I'll e-mai; you a copy and you can print it and copy it.

Welcome!.....I've got a feeling you will add a great deal to our organization not to mention some excitement.