grouse season forcast [Archive] - Kentucky Hunting Forums

grouseguy

08-28-2002, 11:03 AM

Welcome, grouegunner!

I have heard the same info as Birdman. KY doesn't do drumming surveys, brood counts or projections like a lot of the northern states do, so we're pretty much word of mouth based on our own observations.

I have a couple of buddies who are UPS and FedEx drivers in northeastern KY and they both have reported seeing rather large broods on some remote gravel roads that they travel (one hen with nine chicks just last week). I also have a quail hunting buddy from northern KY that does custom bushhogging on the side and he says the quail hatch was good on the farms he has been on, so hopefully we have had a good hatch of grouse and quail.

grousegunner

08-29-2002, 08:57 AM

Birdman & Grouseguy,
first of all I would like to say piss on those damn hawks & thanks for the info ! & second, glad to hear positive things about the upcoming season. yes I do hunt up north. were leaving on the 27th of next month to north east wisconsin. hunting up in the Nicolet National Forest. hunted up there last year for the first time & loved it. as far as Ky. goes I hunt mostley in the south east.(wolfe, morgan, breathitt,lee, magoffin, lawrence,) & some between morehead & ashland. As far as quail goes I don't persue them as much. Got about 5 different farms with a covey or two on them. we usually hunt each of them once then leave em alone for the year. Besides they just don't do it for me like Ol' Mr. Ruff does, but there wonderful to knock the dust off the dogs with & especially good for a pup to get his first taste of wild birds with. As far as the cyber hunters go, no I havn't joined but would be curious to know more about it. good luck to all who get to scratch that itchy trigger finger for the dove opener on sunday. Mine's itchin to death ! good luck & good gunnin' to all....Grousegunner

grouseguy

08-29-2002, 10:03 AM

grousegunner, when are you coming back from WI. I will be leaving for the Chaquamegon NF and Flambeau SF around Park Falls (about 1.5 hours west of the Nicolet) for two weeks beginning 10/5 and I was hoping that maybe you could give me a bird update. I have been going to northern WI for 13 years now, and I agree with you, I love it. Looks like from the WI DNR that they are showing a 9% drop in the drumming survey for the northern area, but some of my local contacts say that the hatch was pretty good, so I'm hoping for some decent numbers.

As far as KY goes, I live in Grayson right off I-64. Maybe we can get together sometime when you're up this way and "swap some lies". Birdman lives in Johnson Co. and we hunt some together, and are both setter guys. Stay away from GSP, he has some very funny ideas about bird dogs.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

GSP

08-29-2002, 11:13 AM

Well at least this fellow got his stock out of Morgan County, you can bet that increased the dogs IQ 30 points!
Grousegunner, I live up the road from you. You run your dogs in any field trials close by?
Rick _GSP

grouseguy

08-29-2002, 11:40 AM

Hey GSP, I don't know if I want a dog that smart. My wife already thinks she's smarter than me, and my 17 year old son KNOWS he's smarter than me (I remember when I knew that I was smarter than my Dad too, but he seems to have gotten a lot smarter in the last 20 years). I at least like to think I'm smarter than my dogs. (Here's a great straight line for you to make a pro-GSP / anti-setter intelligence joke)

You, Birdman and me have to get together this season so we can push each others bird dog buttons in person. It would be entertaining.

Birdman

08-30-2002, 08:26 AM

Boys it's sure nice to start talking grouse again. I went over to feed last night, my old dog was talking to my young dog about going north, they didn't know I could hear them. The young dog said where is north and what makes it so nice. The old dog said it's that way ^ and their more dawm birds than you can shake a stick at. About that time I walked around the corner and they started that dawm barking again. Lets hunt.

grousegunner

08-30-2002, 10:14 AM

Grouseguy,
I'm leaving the day your arriving. I'd be glad to give you a phone call midweek to give you a live report. My hunting buddy's got a little one on the way at the end of oct. so we have to go early. just shoot your phone # to me in an e-mail. I'd Love to get together & hunt some this upcoming season. Either you or birdman hunted much in lawrence co. any ? I've got a new place that I have yet to check out, but the feller thats put me on it said it has a lot of old reclaimed strip mines that have been put back in native grasses. Didn't know if a feller might have a chance at doubling the fun with both grouse& quail in one hunt.
GSP,
as far as trials go I don't run trials. thats for dogs that don't know how to hunt grouse. there's a special breed of dog that's ranked in the elite of the elite & that's a good grouse dog.(if I'm not mistaking the setter strains are the #1 hunted dogs on grouse) Ask any die-hard grouse hunter thats got an awesome grouse dog, then offer to buy it from him. If he's willing to sell then he's not a die-hard. I'm not knocking trial dogs at all, I've seen the amount of work & dedication thats put into a spit shined trial dog & it's a lot of hard work & dedication, & judges are way more critical than wild game will ever be. there are some out there can do it all. I'm a firm believer that a dog, just like us gets good at what it does the most. I've been warned of dogs that you break on wild birds(like mine) learning bad habits on liberated birds used in trials. That's coming from someone that does both. where do you live ? I'm on Ashgrove Pike right off 27. Maybe we could get together & train some if you want to, that is if your braniac shorthairs wouldn't be so offended to work with my llewellins. I'm usally free after 5:30 in the evenings. just shoot me an e-mail to let me know when. By the way do you hunt as much as you trial, if so whats your bag ? good gunning to all....Grousegunner

grouseguy

08-30-2002, 11:59 AM

grousegunner, thanks for the offer on the info, I'll email you my cell number. There's not a lot of cell coverage up there, but you could leave a voice mail message if I'm out of range.

My mother-in-law lives in Webbville (NW Lawrence Co.) and has 3 farms that I hunt plus I have access to 5-6 others. Not the best grouse hunting in that particular area, but it is my turkey hot-spot. I have seen or heard several covey of quail during turkey season. What area do you grouse hunt in Lawrence? Maybe we could hook up for a grouse/quail combo...some of your places and some of mine. The farm you're describing sounds like the areas where I find quail in Lawrence Co. so you probably should look into it.

We share common ideas about grouse dogs, as does Birdman. We need to keep in touch.

GSP

08-30-2002, 07:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I at least like to think I'm smarter than my dogs. (Here's a great straight line for you to make a pro-GSP / anti-setter intelligence joke)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I'm trying not to do that anymore, it's too easy!!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

GSP

08-31-2002, 08:21 AM

Grouseguy & Birdman,
Post some info about the Grouse Hunting Society. I talked with Grousegunner last night. We do need to get up with one and another this season. I have access to some hunting in Morgan & Wolfe counties.

MULESKINNER

08-31-2002, 11:37 PM

Any of you guys hunt in Ohio. I just swapped a deer hunt for a quail hunt in Ohio (somewhere just past Columbus). I havent given a date yet and was wondering what a good time would be up there. I also will be shooting pheasant (never done that). Any tips?

L A T E R . . .

Still don't have a Llewelin yet. Probably wait until Westpoint kennels has some in december unless anyone want to talk trade.

Birdman

09-03-2002, 02:52 PM

GSP I don't do anything with the Society because the money they raise leaves the state. We've talked with their people in the past, their responds is anything they do must be aproved by the local biologist and you know the problem we've had with cutting trees on WMA's. Now a member of ours from Pike Co. left us a few years back and started a club in Pikeville that is affiliated with the society and they have gotten some work done on Fish Trap WMA. They work just like the NWTF you send them $30,000.00 and they'll sent you back $3000.00. The Ky. Grouse Hunters think that KDFWR have the money and should be taking care of habitat on our WMA's and we as a group have done cuttings on Paintsville Lake but this year they (dept.) wouldn't let us help.

The grouse study will end the last day of Sept. The results for some reason won't be out according to our commission until next spring. At that time the commission will make a decission to cut season back to the last day of Dec. or leave it as is.

You can bet your sweat a== we the grouse hunters will be out in force. Xtreme check the first part of that tape out I sent you. You'll know why Mark and I fill the way we do. Or at least one of the reasons. I'll send you a couple of more later I didn't have them with me at the time.

GSP

09-03-2002, 03:07 PM

Ronnie,
The Ky. Grouse Hunters was the one that I meant.

Birdman

09-05-2002, 03:36 PM

Our hunts will start in Dec. I'll get the dates later.

MikeSmith31

09-10-2002, 01:06 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by grousegunner
 Grouseguy,
I'm leaving the day your arriving. I'd be glad to give you a phone call midweek to give you a live report. My hunting buddy's got a little one on the way at the end of oct. so we have to go early. just shoot your phone # to me in an e-mail. I'd Love to get together & hunt some this upcoming season. Either you or birdman hunted much in lawrence co. any ? I've got a new place that I have yet to check out, but the feller thats put me on it said it has a lot of old reclaimed strip mines that have been put back in native grasses. Didn't know if a feller might have a chance at doubling the fun with both grouse& quail in one hunt.
GSP,
as far as trials go I don't run trials. thats for dogs that don't know how to hunt grouse. there's a special breed of dog that's ranked in the elite of the elite & that's a good grouse dog.(if I'm not mistaking the setter strains are the #1 hunted dogs on grouse) Ask any die-hard grouse hunter thats got an awesome grouse dog, then offer to buy it from him. If he's willing to sell then he's not a die-hard. I'm not knocking trial dogs at all, I've seen the amount of work & dedication thats put into a spit shined trial dog & it's a lot of hard work & dedication, & judges are way more critical than wild game will ever be. there are some out there can do it all. I'm a firm believer that a dog, just like us gets good at what it does the most. I've been warned of dogs that you break on wild birds(like mine) learning bad habits on liberated birds used in trials. That's coming from someone that does both. where do you live ? I'm on Ashgrove Pike right off 27. Maybe we could get together & train some if you want to, that is if your braniac shorthairs wouldn't be so offended to work with my llewellins. I'm usally free after 5:30 in the evenings. just shoot me an e-mail to let me know when. By the way do you hunt as much as you trial, if so whats your bag ? good gunning to all....Grousegunner

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Mike Smith

MikeSmith31

09-10-2002, 01:18 PM

Grousegunner, Hi I am new to this forum and would like to get to know a little about those of you that like to hunt the bird that I love so much. But first a little about me. I live in S. E. Kentucky I hunt ruffed grouse with my Llewellin setters and Brittany's. I hunt old strip mines and clear cuts as many days out as my wife will allow;) Where did you get your llewellin setters, what blood line do you have. As for Muleskinner, If your still interested I know a breeder up the road from me that has some nice LLewellin pups a couple times a year. If you want I can see If he has any for sale. He is very reasonable on his prices. I got mine from him last year for and paid 400.00 for her. She is a grouse machine, killed my first grouse over her point at 4 months old. She just got better as the year went on. Cant waite for opening day;) <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by grousegunner
 Grouseguy,
I'm leaving the day your arriving. I'd be glad to give you a phone call midweek to give you a live report. My hunting buddy's got a little one on the way at the end of oct. so we have to go early. just shoot your phone # to me in an e-mail. I'd Love to get together & hunt some this upcoming season. Either you or birdman hunted much in lawrence co. any ? I've got a new place that I have yet to check out, but the feller thats put me on it said it has a lot of old reclaimed strip mines that have been put back in native grasses. Didn't know if a feller might have a chance at doubling the fun with both grouse& quail in one hunt.
GSP,
as far as trials go I don't run trials. thats for dogs that don't know how to hunt grouse. there's a special breed of dog that's ranked in the elite of the elite & that's a good grouse dog.(if I'm not mistaking the setter strains are the #1 hunted dogs on grouse) Ask any die-hard grouse hunter thats got an awesome grouse dog, then offer to buy it from him. If he's willing to sell then he's not a die-hard. I'm not knocking trial dogs at all, I've seen the amount of work & dedication thats put into a spit shined trial dog & it's a lot of hard work & dedication, & judges are way more critical than wild game will ever be. there are some out there can do it all. I'm a firm believer that a dog, just like us gets good at what it does the most. I've been warned of dogs that you break on wild birds(like mine) learning bad habits on liberated birds used in trials. That's coming from someone that does both. where do you live ? I'm on Ashgrove Pike right off 27. Maybe we could get together & train some if you want to, that is if your braniac shorthairs wouldn't be so offended to work with my llewellins. I'm usally free after 5:30 in the evenings. just shoot me an e-mail to let me know when. By the way do you hunt as much as you trial, if so whats your bag ? good gunning to all....Grousegunner

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Mike Smith

Birdman

09-10-2002, 01:52 PM

Mike, where is Calvin Ky.? I'm from Left Hand Fork of Daniels Creek in eastern Ky. Close to Paintsville.

MikeSmith31

09-10-2002, 02:14 PM

Birdman, I live 10 miles north of Pineville, Ky in Bell Co. on hwy 119 north toward Harlan Ky. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birdman
 Mike, where is Calvin Ky.? I'm from Left Hand Fork of Daniels Creek in eastern Ky. Close to Paintsville.
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Mike Smith

Birdman

09-10-2002, 03:08 PM

GSP ask for information on the Kentucky Grouse Hunters Assocation I'll give you a short version.

We formed 8 yrs. ago, at that time with the sole purpose of convincing fish and wildlife to leave our grouse season the way it was at that time. Opening in Nov. and Closing the last day of Feb. And stoppppppp trapping the grouse for their stocking program in western ky.

Sence then we've worked on habitat projects, food plots, cleaning bottom land that had grown out of cover, and attempted to convince the dept. to inprove habitat on public lands for grouse and other game. To some extend KDFWR, has worked with us to improve a small area. Without, the help of LOKS this would not have happened. We are still at work hoping that a long term habitat program will be put in place, on public land. And that more land be purchased for public hunting and wildlife.

The more people we have working with the LOKS and the Cyper Hunters the better off we'll be.

We hold grouse hunts through out the winter. Our first two day hunt will be Dec. 28th. & 29th. In the past Scott Freidhoff came and checked birds. This helped our club and his research.

This club is a program started by the PAINTSVILLE RECREATION DEPARTMENT and is based at the recreation center. Anyone that hunts grouse or likes to eat can join. We have two grouse dinners planned one Jan. 14th the other Feb. 22nd. both of these dates fall on two day hunts. The hunts are fun hunts, you and a partner, anywhere you want to hunt is ok with us, but if I were you I would hunt where grouse lives.[:D]

The future of this club, like any other club relays on the hunters or participants, and their interest in this activity. We have the hunters, will, and knowledge to move on. I would like to invite any of you people to join. We have members from all over the state. our dues are $12.00 a year. If your interested, eather post on this site or call 606-789-2612 ask for Ronnie Wells.

If you haven't tryed grouse hunting you haven't hunted.

Mike do you hunt Black Mountain?

MikeSmith31

09-11-2002, 07:18 AM

Birdman, yes I have hunted Black Mountain in the past. You have to watch because a lot of it is posted. Fair amount of grouse in the areas that I have hunted, but there has been very little in the way of clearcutting and almost no strip mining. Also Birdman I would like some info on the Ky Grouse Hunters Association.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birdman
 GSP ask for information on the Kentucky Grouse Hunters Assocation I'll give you a short version.

We formed 8 yrs. ago, at that time with the sole purpose of convincing fish and wildlife to leave our grouse season the way it was at that time. Opening in Nov. and Closing the last day of Feb. And stoppppppp trapping the grouse for their stocking program in western ky.

Sence then we've worked on habitat projects, food plots, cleaning bottom land that had grown out of cover, and attempted to convince the dept. to inprove habitat on public lands for grouse and other game. To some extend KDFWR, has worked with us to improve a small area. Without, the help of LOKS this would not have happened. We are still at work hoping that a long term habitat program will be put in place, on public land. And that more land be purchased for public hunting and wildlife.

The more people we have working with the LOKS and the Cyper Hunters the better off we'll be.

We hold grouse hunts through out the winter. Our first two day hunt will be Dec. 28th. & 29th. In the past Scott Freidhoff came and checked birds. This helped our club and his research.

This club is a program started by the PAINTSVILLE RECREATION DEPARTMENT and is based at the recreation center. Anyone that hunts grouse or likes to eat can join. We have two grouse dinners planned one Jan. 14th the other Feb. 22nd. both of these dates fall on two day hunts. The hunts are fun hunts, you and a partner, anywhere you want to hunt is ok with us, but if I were you I would hunt where grouse lives.[:D]

The future of this club, like any other club relays on the hunters or participants, and their interest in this activity. We have the hunters, will, and knowledge to move on. I would like to invite any of you people to join. We have members from all over the state. our dues are $12.00 a year. If your interested, eather post on this site or call 606-789-2612 ask for Ronnie Wells.

If you haven't tryed grouse hunting you haven't hunted.

Mike do you hunt Black Mountain?
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Mike Smith

Birdman

09-11-2002, 09:43 AM

Mike give me a call at 606-789-2612 work or 606-789-7125 home. Do you know Mark Doss in Harlan?

MikeSmith31

09-11-2002, 11:09 AM

Birdman, I dont know Mark Goss but I have heard his name, If I am not mistaken, he is an lawyer in Harlan. I know a lot of people in Harlan because I have worked for Harlan ARH Hospital for 11 yrs. and I also am one of the football coaches at Cawood Highschool. I will give you a call as soon as I get time, with work, football, dog work, and all those honey do jobs, I barely have time to sleep. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birdman
 Mike give me a call at 606-789-2612 work or 606-789-7125 home. Do you know Mark Doss in Harlan?
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Mike Smith

Birdman

09-11-2002, 12:55 PM

I also coach football, coached 21 years on the high school level and still coaching on the grade school level. We have a lot of fun with those young men. Who's the head coach at Cawood.

MikeSmith31

09-11-2002, 01:42 PM

Birdman, The head coach is named Bo Callebs. He coached at Bell County, and North Laurel as an assistant. This is his first head coaching job. I played with him at Bell County in the 80's under a fellow by the name of Dudley Hilton. We are kind of down this year, but we are in the process of rebuilding, so it may be a long year, hope not.[:D]That is really cool that you have coached 21 years I bet I can learn alot from a veteran like you. How has your season been going so far?<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birdman
 I also coach football, coached 21 years on the high school level and still coaching on the grade school level. We have a lot of fun with those young men. Who's the head coach at Cawood.
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Mike Smith

grousegunner

09-11-2002, 02:17 PM

Hey mike,

good to meet you & to have another grouse hunter to chat with. I got my llewellins from Steve Bailey from Straight Creek Kennels out of west Liberty. Most of my dogs blood is Bondhu with some whindem & Blizzard strains thrown in the mix. your female soundslike my male. I think he was born knowing how to hunt grouse. had his first one killed over him at 6 mos. old last season & he just kept getting better at it the more we hunted. there's nothing to make a grouse hunter feel any better thats for sure.(don't tell your wife that) do you hunt mostly out of bell & the surrounding counties. I made a trip last year down your way just to find out that most of the land I had permission to hunt(knott & perry counties) was smoldering from a forest fire. needless to say we didn't jump to many grouse, 3 to be exact. so where did your llewellins come from & how many do you have ?
seen many birds down your way this year. I heard a lot of drumming during turkey season. well I'm out of here for now. stay in touch & good gunning to all...Grousegunner

Birdman

09-11-2002, 03:40 PM

I don't know the boy but know Dunley well. We were at camp together when he was at Breathett and coached against him when I was at Jonhson Central.

Paintsville is 1 and 2 Prestonburg beat the hell out of us last week. We go to Fleming Neon this week. Both of us are down this year. We start three freshman. I played at Paintsville in the 60's and have been involved some what ever sents and I've never seen more that one fresh get to play let lone three. So yes it maybe a long year for both of us.

How many dogs do you have?

MikeSmith31

09-12-2002, 07:53 AM

Hi Grousegunner, Good to meet you too. I have heard some good things about the Bailey's Llewellins. What kind of tail set do your dogs have? The ones that the Bailey's have on their web site seem to have arount a 9 o'clock tail set. Were your dogs cautious around birds or did it take a few bumped birds to get them to stay on point? The reason I am asking I have considered getting a male from the Baileys but didnt know anybody that had one of thier dogs. My female Llewellin is 15 months old, she is 1/2 Bomber, 1/4 Gladstone, and 1/4 Bondhu. Her sire and dame came from Kings Llewellins in Arkansas, but I got her from a fellow up the road a few miles from me in Harlan. Yes I do mostly hunt Bell and the surrounding counties because I have not really had a chance to go elsewhere. I only have one Lelewellin right know but I will be getting another pup soon from the same guy that I got my female from. This dog will be pure Gladstone. My female is a tri-colered Belton and only weighs about 35 pounds. Good to hear that you have heard a lot of drumming up your way, I have heard quite a bit also and have seen quite a bit of young birds in the woods this summer, so hopefully this will be a good year for all.
 Hey mike,

good to meet you & to have another grouse hunter to chat with. I got my llewellins from Steve Bailey from Straight Creek Kennels out of west Liberty. Most of my dogs blood is Bondhu with some whindem & Blizzard strains thrown in the mix. your female soundslike my male. I think he was born knowing how to hunt grouse. had his first one killed over him at 6 mos. old last season & he just kept getting better at it the more we hunted. there's nothing to make a grouse hunter feel any better thats for sure.(don't tell your wife that) do you hunt mostly out of bell & the surrounding counties. I made a trip last year down your way just to find out that most of the land I had permission to hunt(knott & perry counties) was smoldering from a forest fire. needless to say we didn't jump to many grouse, 3 to be exact. so where did your llewellins come from & how many do you have ?
seen many birds down your way this year. I heard a lot of drumming during turkey season. well I'm out of here for now. stay in touch & good gunning to all...Grousegunner
[/quote]

Mike Smith

MikeSmith31

09-12-2002, 08:10 AM

Birdman, Well it looks like it is going to be a long for a lot of us. We also have 2 or 3 freshmen starting and it is killing us. We are 0 and 2 so far, we had one open day in between those two games. We play my old team Bell County this friday and I think we will be massacred, but I would never tell our kids that. I have 3 bird dogs, one Llewellin Setter and two Brittanys. My Llewellin is 15 months old and doing well, one Brittany is a 5 month old pup, and my old Brittany is 10 years old. He, the old Brittany is the best dog I have ever owned or hunted with, so thats why I have the pup. If he lives until she is old enough, I will breed the two of them so I will have a pup off of him. Hopefully my bird season will go better than my football has gone so far.[:D] Cant wate to find out. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Birdman
 
I don't know the boy but know Dunley well. We were at camp together when he was at Breathett and coached against him when I was at Jonhson Central.

Paintsville is 1 and 2 Prestonburg beat the hell out of us last week. We go to Fleming Neon this week. Both of us are down this year. We start three freshman. I played at Paintsville in the 60's and have been involved some what ever sents and I've never seen more that one fresh get to play let lone three. So yes it maybe a long year for both of us.

How many dogs do you have?
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Mike Smith

grousegunner

09-12-2002, 09:07 AM

hey mike,

If your looking to get a male you won't go wrong with the bailey's stock. my female points with a 12 o'clock tail Tail & my male anywhere from 9 to 12 depending on how strong the scent is & what position his body is in when he hits scent. for 99% of the time he's your 10 or 11 o'clock with the front leg pulled up. You mentioned that your dogs were out of stock from Al king in Arkansas. Were you aware of the mess he's in due to false registering dog's. From my understanding he's banned from registering any dogs with the FDSB for three years. He's bottlenecked the FDSB registration process pretty good. you can get a good insight on this from the Advie llewellins web page.(adviegundogs.com)I Didn't know how soon you were in the market for a male, or if you were committed to buying from this fellow already, but I plan on having a litter next spring. as far as my dogs being cautious on birds my male was a natural, he's never tried to creep. he locks up at the slightest scent. If he's flagging I know the birds out in front of him a good ways or it was there rescently. my female had to break herself from trying to get to close before locking up, but never have had a problem with her breaking once point was established. I have a few covey's of wild quail on the farm I live on & they educated her pretty fast. she's pointing as soon as she smells & holding good now, but I'd say ol Mr. Ruff will take her to school this season, lessons in in his classroom will teach her more than I ever could. It will be her first in the grouse woods & I'm pretty anxious to see how she's gonna do. She's smart as a tack & will flat hunt her behind off. give me shout some time (859-333-1122). maybe we can get together this season & go chase some birds. take care & happy gunnin'.......Grouse gunner

MikeSmith31

09-12-2002, 09:49 AM

Grousegunner, Sounds like you have a couple of nice Llews, I am not commited to the other fellow about buying a pup, so I will keep in touch to see when you breed. How much will your pups be? I am aware of the mess that Alfred King has caused with the FDSB. Are you aware of that because of this incident all Llewellins that are going to be bred has to be DNA tested through the FDSB? Thanks for the invite to go hunting, we will definitely have to do that. Although I may not be as fancy a shot or gun handler as you northern boys, I will give it my best shot.[:D]<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by grousegunner
 hey mike,

If your looking to get a male you won't go wrong with the bailey's stock. my female points with a 12 o'clock tail Tail & my male anywhere from 9 to 12 depending on how strong the scent is & what position his body is in when he hits scent. for 99% of the time he's your 10 or 11 o'clock with the front leg pulled up. You mentioned that your dogs were out of stock from Al king in Arkansas. Were you aware of the mess he's in due to false registering dog's. From my understanding he's banned from registering any dogs with the FDSB for three years. He's bottlenecked the FDSB registration process pretty good. you can get a good insight on this from the Advie llewellins web page.(adviegundogs.com)I Didn't know how soon you were in the market for a male, or if you were committed to buying from this fellow already, but I plan on having a litter next spring. as far as my dogs being cautious on birds my male was a natural, he's never tried to creep. he locks up at the slightest scent. If he's flagging I know the birds out in front of him a good ways or it was there rescently. my female had to break herself from trying to get to close before locking up, but never have had a problem with her breaking once point was established. I have a few covey's of wild quail on the farm I live on & they educated her pretty fast. she's pointing as soon as she smells & holding good now, but I'd say ol Mr. Ruff will take her to school this season, lessons in in his classroom will teach her more than I ever could. It will be her first in the grouse woods & I'm pretty anxious to see how she's gonna do. She's smart as a tack & will flat hunt her behind off. give me shout some time (859-333-1122). maybe we can get together this season & go chase some birds. take care & happy gunnin'.......Grouse gunner
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Mike Smith

grousegunner

09-12-2002, 03:13 PM

first of all mike, I'm no crackshot on a grouse.spray & pray my friend ! second I was wondering how one goes about this whole DNA testing procedure ? so what your saying is that no matter how ones dog is currently registered with the fdsb(as pure llewellin)they must still do DNA testing ? I'm assuming that this cost comes out of the breeders pocket. I've never known of any labratory blood work to be cheap. If thats the case imagine what this is going to do to the cost of puppies in the future. Man, it's really a shame what one bad apple can do to the bushell. As far as I'm concerned big Al's operation should be blackballed by every llewellin enthusiast out there, not to mention every time we(as llewellin owners)decide to breed, just send him the bill for the DNA testing. well anyway I guess well just have to deal with what we have to. As far as a price on puppies I was thinking of $400.00 a pup, but If this DNA dilema plays a role who knows what a man will have to charge just to break even. Don't get me wrong I'm not out trying to get rich off of selling dogs, raising & training bird dogs is something that I just love to do & I just happen to be passionate about llewllins. The expense of owning & training is'nt exactly cheap, especially when you look at the time involved. well anyway I'll quit griping. If theres anyone else out there that reads this post & has some insight on this matter I would sure love to hear what you know. thanks in advance....Grouse gunner

GSP

09-12-2002, 04:24 PM

Mike, I got to see Grousegunners setters work last night. They are some good looking dogs and very hard workers.

Rick - GSP

MikeSmith31

09-13-2002, 08:04 AM

Grousegunner, Yes you are correct in that all Llewellin Setters that are used for breeding purposes have to be DNA tested this is as 8/01/02 per the FDSB. With some registries they only make you dna a dog if it is a used frequently in a certain amount of time, but not the FDSB. It really is not that expensive, and you can get the Swab kit by calling the American Field (FDSB) the number is (312)-663-9797. It costs 50.00 per dog. I think this really sucks because it will make the price of dogs go up. The breeder has to pass the buck on this incurred expense and I don't blame them. The DNA testing has to be done on all dogs that are going to be bred, no matter if they are already registered or not and no matter if they have already been used for breeding in the past.[:(!]So the procedure is, you call the FDSB and ask for a DNA swab kit, then when you get it you just follow the instructions that come with the kit. Then you send it along with your 50.00 dollar check to the address listed in the kit. The company that does the testing for FDSB is called MMI Genomics or something like that. When the testing is complete they send the results to you and the FDSB. As for the price of your dogs that sounds like a fair price. Anyway you look at it this thing with the Kings has caused everyone that loves Llewellins a big headache.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by grousegunner
 first of all mike, I'm no crackshot on a grouse.spray & pray my friend ! second I was wondering how one goes about this whole DNA testing procedure ? so what your saying is that no matter how ones dog is currently registered with the fdsb(as pure llewellin)they must still do DNA testing ? I'm assuming that this cost comes out of the breeders pocket. I've never known of any labratory blood work to be cheap. If thats the case imagine what this is going to do to the cost of puppies in the future. Man, it's really a shame what one bad apple can do to the bushell. As far as I'm concerned big Al's operation should be blackballed by every llewellin enthusiast out there, not to mention every time we(as llewellin owners)decide to breed, just send him the bill for the DNA testing. well anyway I guess well just have to deal with what we have to. As far as a price on puppies I was thinking of $400.00 a pup, but If this DNA dilema plays a role who knows what a man will have to charge just to break even. Don't get me wrong I'm not out trying to get rich off of selling dogs, raising & training bird dogs is something that I just love to do & I just happen to be passionate about llewllins. The expense of owning & training is'nt exactly cheap, especially when you look at the time involved. well anyway I'll quit griping. If theres anyone else out there that reads this post & has some insight on this matter I would sure love to hear what you know. thanks in advance....Grouse gunner
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Mike Smith

MikeSmith31

09-13-2002, 08:07 AM

gsp, Sounds good, I will have to check them out.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gsp
 Mike, I got to see Grousegunners setters work last night. They are some good looking dogs and very hard workers.

Rick - GSP

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Mike Smith

GSP

09-13-2002, 09:50 AM

I forgot to through this in, "friends don't let friends buy setters"![:D]

MikeSmith31

09-13-2002, 09:59 AM

Grousegunner, To put another little spin on the Llewellin registry mess, Alfred King has started his own registry (the field setter stud book), because he can not register dogs with the FDSB for a period of three years. I just found out today that he is letting another registry take over his registry called the International Dog Breeders Association located in Upton, ky. You can cross register you dogs with them for 10.00 if you want to dual register. This new registry may be a good thing and maybe not, we will just have to wate and see. The good thing is no one breeder will have complete power of a registry.

Mike Smith
[/quote]

Mike Smith

mgrouse

09-13-2002, 10:53 AM

Hey Mike,
Did you play for Dudley in the late 80's? I am from Pikeville and we used to go to Camp Feltner down in Laurel County with Bell and Lincoln County from 88-90. We used to whup up on you boys pretty good. [:D] I have a three year old French Brittany, Bleu, (I know it sounds redundant, but there is a difference)who my wife treats like one of our kids. He hunted on quail in Laurel County as a pup (he was a perfect hunter at birth, any training has just messed him up) and a yearling, and started getting into some grouse in the latter part of his second season. My mom is from Knox County, and we have a lot of relatives who still live there. They come from Smiths in Harlan and surrounding areas, hell we might be kin. For years they would tell me to come down and hunt because there were birds all over their property, but I ignorantly ignored them because they kept talking about partridges. Well, the first time I hunted their property I flushed 14 grouse (only three good points, he's still learning grouse)in about an hour and a half and later in the day got into two coveys of quail. I couldn't believe it. I went back a few times and Bleu started figuring out how to work them, but they all disappeared in late January. I did not shoot all of them-- I also spray and pray. I went back last year and the property was burned to the ground. It may be better this year. If you're interested in swapping hunts or taking a mildly experienced grouse dog and poor shot along in exchange for hunting some in Knox, let me know. My wife claims she is going to let me hunt more this years since our daughter is a toddler now.

MikeSmith31

09-13-2002, 12:25 PM

mgrouse, Yes I did play for Dudley in the 80's but I graduated in 1987 so the fall of 1986 was my last season. Went to feltner for all 4 years that I played. We never did play Pikeville, but did play Laurel Co., Estill Co., Jenkins, Hazard, and quite a few others. When I played, we were hardly ever whupped up on by anybody.[:D][:D]Only lost one 1 game my junior year and only 2 my senior year. Won the SEKC almost every year for almost 10 years[;)] Hey thanks for the invite, we will definitely have to get together some time. I have family in Knox Co., Clay Co., and Bell Co. So we may very well be kin. I have always wanted to see those little French Brittanys do their thing. Dont worry about being a good shot or having the best dog in the world, it is the experience that we have and the feeling that we get while watching a beautiful birddog move gracefully through the reds, golds, and auburns of applachian mountain side. The dogs that I will be useing this year are young and learning. One is a 15 month Llewellin Setter which has some experience on grouse from last year, but is by no means a finished grouse dog. The other dog that I will be hunting with will be arount 7 months old by the time grouse season comes in. She is a liver and white brittany and boy is she birdy. She will hold point on scent only for quite a while, so maybe by the time the season rolls around I will have her pretty steady. Do you still live in Pikeville? Nice talking to ya.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mgrouse
 Hey Mike,
Did you play for Dudley in the late 80's? I am from Pikeville and we used to go to Camp Feltner down in Laurel County with Bell and Lincoln County from 88-90. We used to whup up on you boys pretty good. [:D] I have a three year old French Brittany, Bleu, (I know it sounds redundant, but there is a difference)who my wife treats like one of our kids. He hunted on quail in Laurel County as a pup (he was a perfect hunter at birth, any training has just messed him up) and a yearling, and started getting into some grouse in the latter part of his second season. My mom is from Knox County, and we have a lot of relatives who still live there. They come from Smiths in Harlan and surrounding areas, hell we might be kin. For years they would tell me to come down and hunt because there were birds all over their property, but I ignorantly ignored them because they kept talking about partridges. Well, the first time I hunted their property I flushed 14 grouse (only three good points, he's still learning grouse)in about an hour and a half and later in the day got into two coveys of quail. I couldn't believe it. I went back a few times and Bleu started figuring out how to work them, but they all disappeared in late January. I did not shoot all of them-- I also spray and pray. I went back last year and the property was burned to the ground. It may be better this year. If you're interested in swapping hunts or taking a mildly experienced grouse dog and poor shot along in exchange for hunting some in Knox, let me know. My wife claims she is going to let me hunt more this years since our daughter is a toddler now.
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Mike Smith

mgrouse

09-13-2002, 12:36 PM

I live in Lexington now, which ain't exactly the grouse capitol of the world, although its a quick trip up to Clay WMA, which is decent. I have hunted Pike County quite a bit and have friends there that usually kill about 200 a year between four hunters, but I have always had better luck down around your area (the hills aren't as big either). Where do your Knox County relatives live?

MikeSmith31

09-13-2002, 01:14 PM

mgrouse, My anut and uncle owns a farm in a place called little brush creek. You just go to Flat Lick, then turn to go to Dewitt, when you get to the intersection at Dewitt, turn left and go about 3 miles until you see a street sign which says "little brush creek" turn on to that road and their farm is about 2 miles from there. Have never hunted there but I am going to this year. Where did you buy your French Brittany? I was looking to buy one before I got my last brittany. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mgrouse
 I live in Lexington now, which ain't exactly the grouse capitol of the world, although its a quick trip up to Clay WMA, which is decent. I have hunted Pike County quite a bit and have friends there that usually kill about 200 a year between four hunters, but I have always had better luck down around your area (the hills aren't as big either). Where do your Knox County relatives live?
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Mike Smith

grousegunner

09-13-2002, 01:50 PM

Mike,

$50.00 isn't to bad, but still piss' me off. just on shear principle. Atleast the FDSB is making it easy. As for GSP's comment do I even need reply. We have yet to see a whole lot of good out of germany, & bird dogs wern't there starting point. (thanks for the compliment GSP)

Hey mgrouse, where do you live in lexington. me & gsp both live on the south end of lexington, Im actually in jessamine co. we work dogs the other evening & got into a nice covey of quail. do you run your dog anywhere locally. If you ever need to let him/her get out & run I've got 100 acres that I live on with some wild birds on it, just give me call & let me know.(333-1122) Have you done much good hunting the clay wma ? It can be a dandy place for woodcock if the weather is right. just give me a shout if you want to get together....Grousegunner

mgrouse

09-13-2002, 03:22 PM

I live off of Man O War near alumni. I run my dog on a farm in Jessamine County on Tates Creek near Spears and on a beautiful 300 acre farm just past the Fayette/Clark County line out Richmond/Athens Boonesboro Road. Neither place has birds, although I have seen Woodcock on the Jessamine County Farm (its mostly wooded) during the migration. I was going to attempt to start a quail population on the Clark County Farm this spring, but my friend the owner said she didn't want me shooting on it. I may try to get some coveys going next year anyway, so bleu can work some birds. I went grouse hunting at Clay last October for the first time last year and got into plenty of grouse, I think we flushed 8 separate birds and I took two (hunting in October is especially hard when you got leaves on and can't shoot all that well). I went to the pheasant quota hunt last year and it was the first time I had hunted down by the river in the second entrance. I assume the good woodcock hunting is in that area and I plan to go this year. My dog is wierd on woodcock though. I have shot some over his points, but when he goes to retreive he starts poking around with them with his nose like he's trying to figure out what it is. He has walked by some too. I have heard that they smell funny to dogs, so hopefully that's it.

Mike, I bought my French Brittany while I was still in school and lived in a condo. I knew most b-dogs would probably tear a small place apart so I did research on the internet for something I could hunt with that liked to live inside with the family and was a little calmer than average. I decided on the French because he's supposed to be (and is as far as I can tell) calmer, smarter and smaller, but I didn't think I could find one in the state. Well, the website of the French Brittany Gun Dog Assoc., I think its called, listed registered breeders, and lo and behold there was one in Pendleton County. I can't remember his name but, he's all over their website. I believe he moved to Grant or Pendleton County. Bleu, I'm sorry, Pascal du Cidre Crique, has been a great dog, like I said he was born ready to hunt. When I went to pick him up as a 6 week old he locked up on point on a bird while we were still at the breeder's place. He doesn't get worked on birds enough because I work all the time.