What a Mess this war is...Opium Production

[Duster]

AP Story dated 07 May 2008. Quite a quandry we find ourselves in.



GARMSER, Afghanistan — The Marines of Bravo Company's 1st Platoon sleep beside a grove of poppies.

Troops in the 2nd Platoon playfully swat at the heavy opium bulbs while walking through the fields.


Afghan laborers scraping the plant's gooey resin smile and wave.

Last week, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit moved into southern Helmand province, the world's largest opium poppy-growing region, and it now finds itself surrounded by green fields of the illegal plants that produce the main ingredient of heroin.

The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derive up to $100 million a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees, money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.

Yet, the Marines are not destroying the plants.

In fact, they are reassuring villagers that the poppies won't be touched.

American commanders say the Marines would only alienate people and drive them to take up arms if they eliminated the impoverished Afghans' only source of income.

Many Marines in the field are scratching their heads over the situation.

"It's kind of weird. We're coming over here to fight the Taliban. We see this. We know it's bad., but at the same time, we know it's the only way locals can make money," said 1st Lt. Adam Lynch, 27, of Barnstable, Mass.

The Marines' battalion commander, Lt. Col. Anthony Henderson, said in an interview Tuesday that the poppy crop "will come and go" and that his troops can't focus on it when Taliban fighters around Garmser are "terrorizing the people."

"I think by focusing on the Taliban, the poppies will go away," said Henderson, a 41-year-old from Washington, D.C.

He said once the militant fighters are forced out, the Afghan government can move in and offer alternatives.

Policy draws criticism

An expert on Afghanistan's drug trade, Barnett Rubin, complained that the Marines are being put in such a situation by a "one-dimensional" military policy that fails to integrate political and economic considerations into long-range planning.

"All we hear is, not enough troops, send more troops," said Rubin, a professor at New York University.

"Then you send in troops with no capacity for assistance, no capacity for development, no capacity for aid, no capacity for governance."

Most of the 33,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan operate in the east, where the poppy problem is not as great.

But the 2,400-strong 24th Marines have taken the field in this southern growing region during harvest season.

In the poppy fields 100 feet from the 2nd Platoon's headquarters, three Afghan brothers scraped opium resin over the weekend. The youngest, 23-year-old Sardar, said his family would earn little money from the harvest.

"We receive money from the shopkeepers, then they will sell it," said Sardar, who was afraid to give his last name.

"We don't have enough money to buy flour for our families. The smugglers make the money," added Sardar, who worked alongside his 11-year-old son just 20 yards from a Marine guard post, its guns pointed across the field.

Marines may linger

Afghanistan supplies some 93 percent of the world's opium used to make heroin, and the Taliban militants earn up to $100 million from the drug trade, the United Nations estimates. The export value of this harvest was $4 billion, more than a third of the country's combined gross domestic product.

Though they aren't eradicating poppies, the Marines' presence could still have a positive effect.

Henderson said the drug supply lines have been disrupted at a crucial point in the harvest.

And Marine commanders are debating staying in Garmser longer than originally planned.

Second Lt. Mark Greenlief, 24, a Monmouth, Ill., native who commands the 2nd Platoon, said he originally wanted to make a helicopter landing zone in Sardar's field.

"But as you can see that would ruin their poppy field, and we didn't want to ruin their livelihood," he said.

[Duster]

52 views and not one comment...thats messed up

[Xi Bowhunter]

That is crazy. They need to destroy those plants. I'm sure someone in the village could find another to make money besides growing plants for heroin.

I guess I see their point, but you have to draw a line somewhere, and I would think a field full of plants for heroine making would be it.

[keith meador]

That is crazy. They need to destroy those plants. I'm sure someone in the village could find another to make money besides growing plants for heroin.

I guess I see their point, but you have to draw a line somewhere, and I would think a field full of plants for heroine making would be it.


and what part of the booming afgan economy would you suggest the farmers start up their new profession? while i agree they should destroy the poppys, they are not local police, and the mission at hand is not destroying poppys. they are there to hunt down the taliban.

[KY_Fried]

Opium isn't only used to make heroin. In fact more opium is used for pain medication then for anything else. If they're growing 93% of the worlds opium then I would think a lot of that has to be used for prescription drugs that Americans use.

[grouseguy]

In all seriousness, is this really that big of a deal?

Haven't we already lost the so called "War on Drugs"?

How effective has the efforts been in curbing the Supply side of the drug trade?

How much are we spending to incarcerate "otherwise" non-violent offenders?

Honestly, are there more or less drugs on the streets now as opposed to when we were kids?

Think about this like the true fiscal conservatives most of you claim to be ... wouldn't it make more economic sense to legalize this stuff ... imagine how much could be saved on law enforcement, court costs, and prison expenses, and then let "natural selection" take care of most of the really problem cases ... then you wouldn't have as many welfare cases either.

Think about it, LEGALIZATION could be the true conservative answer to the drug problem.

[slickhead slayer]

In all seriousness, is this really that big of a deal?

Haven't we already lost the so called "War on Drugs"?

How effective has the efforts been in curbing the Supply side of the drug trade?

How much are we spending to incarcerate "otherwise" non-violent offenders?

Honestly, are there more or less drugs on the streets now as opposed to when we were kids?

Think about this like the true fiscal conservatives most of you claim to be ... wouldn't it make more economic sense to legalize this stuff ... imagine how much could be saved on law enforcement, court costs, and prison expenses, and then let "natural selection" take care of most of the really problem cases ... then you wouldn't have as many welfare cases either.

Think about it, LEGALIZATION could be the true conservative answer to the drug problem.

I happen to agree. I think the war on drugs is a waste of money. I see it as very similar to gun control. I don't know anybody that wants drugs that can't find them illegally. And like you said, how much money do we spend trying to lock up a bunch of weed smokers, knowing its not going to keep anyone from doing it.
The government spends far too much time and energy on personal issues. If any 12 year old in america can get weed, obviously the war on drugs is not working. save the money, there are far better things to spend it on.

[corndogggy]

In all seriousness, is this really that big of a deal?

What if instead of opium it was a weapons plant, where the Marines saw the very bullets being made that the Taliban would shoot at them? Would it be a big deal then? Because, that's what it might as well be. The Taliban will turn around and sell this opium and buy weapons with it. It's not just that it's being grown, it's the end result of the harvest that is the bigger deal.

[Art]

If it was meth, then I'd be all for blowing it up. Heroin just doesn't bother me all that much.:) I doubt the people who just broke into my mothers house or the people who just stole my neighbors catalytic converter are doing so to buy heroin. Hell, what do I know? Maybe they are.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

I wonder how many soliders are linning their pockets with 'poppy bud'?:)
Maybe a little off duty recreation going on.......

[RVtech24]

To me, this is no different than trying to grow a marijuana field in kentucky next to a state police post.

How many Americans are in prison today for the same reason???

How many of our kids will DIE in Afgahnistan... before it's wrong???

Wake up people...

[turkeytalker]

To me, this is no different than trying to grow a marijuana field in kentucky next to a state police post.

How many Americans are in prison today for the same reason???

How many of our kids will DIE in Afgahnistan... before it's wrong???

Wake up people...


Now fighting the Taliban is wrong? I knew this post was going there.

[RVtech24]

Now fighting the Taliban is wrong? I knew this post was going there.

What I meant was that It's wrong for our government to stand by and do nothing about the cultivation of poppies.

[Scott7m]

What I meant was that It's wrong for our government to stand by and do nothing about the cultivation of poppies.

Now now, I'm sure that the turkey man knows more about your thoughts than even you do! lol :rolleyes:

[Duster]

Now fighting the Taliban is wrong? I knew this post was going there.

Fighting them is not wrong but ignoring the fact they are being financed by the poppy fields is like just buying them ammo and weapons....

[turkeytalker]

Fighting them is not wrong but ignoring the fact they are being financed by the poppy fields is like just buying them ammo and weapons....


We are not there to destroy poppy fields.....We are there to kill the enemy until they are dead dead dead. Our military is doing a fine job of it too.

[corndogggy]

To me, this is no different than trying to grow a marijuana field in kentucky next to a state police post.

That would be bad enough, but it would be tons worse if the profits of that marijuana was directly funding operations to kill state troopers, and they had to let it sit there. I think that's the bigger picture here.

[corndogggy]

We are not there to destroy poppy fields.....We are there to kill the enemy until they are dead dead dead. Our military is doing a fine job of it too.

Yeah, but it would be a little easier if they didn't have the funds to be able to fight back as effectively.

[turkeytalker]

To me, this is no different than trying to grow a marijuana field in kentucky next to a state police post.

Yeah, but it would be a little easier if they didn't have the funds to be able to fight back as effectively.


Ok i'm starting to understand where you two are coming from.


Lets cut off all of the middle easts oil (especially Iraqs) because it funds terrorists. Wondering if that might not create a few more talibanies :rolleyes:.

[RVtech24]

We are not there to destroy poppy fields.....We are there to kill the enemy until they are dead dead dead. Our military is doing a fine job of it too.

I'am retired from the army... no one has said our military is not doing an outstanding job.

If you cant figure what the poppies and their cultivation means to the safe welfare of our military in Afgahnistan...I feel sorry for you.:(

[Duster]

We are not there to destroy poppy fields.....WE are there to kill the enemy until they are dead dead dead. Our military is doing a fine job of it too.

Darn turkeytalker I didn't know you were over there fighting. Did you just join the Army and not tell us ? This is just like another war not that many years ago were the military's hands were tied and due to political correctness were not allowed to do what it takes to win. I bet those poppy fields would grow a grain crop so they could still make a living from the family farm.

[Scott7m]

I'am retired from the army... no one has said our military is not doing an outstanding job.

If you cant figure what the poppies and their cultivation means to the safe welfare of our military in Afgahnistan...I feel sorry for you.:(

your not the only one.... lol

[turkeytalker]

Darn turkeytalker I didn't know you were over there fighting. This is just like another war not that many years ago were the military's hands were tied and due to political correctness were not allowed to do what it takes to win. I bet those poppy fields would grow a grain crop so they could still make a living from the family farm.


I'm not over there fighting duster but my country is and i will use WE whenever i speak of this countries operations. Unless of course some liberal makes them wear blue helmets:mad:.

Like someone said earlier many pain medications are made from poppy so its unlikely we are gonna start destroying them anytime soon.

[grouseguy]

What if instead of opium it was a weapons plant, where the Marines saw the very bullets being made that the Taliban would shoot at them? Would it be a big deal then? Because, that's what it might as well be. The Taliban will turn around and sell this opium and buy weapons with it. It's not just that it's being grown, it's the end result of the harvest that is the bigger deal.

Think about this some more ... if it were legalized, then there would be no market for the taliban to sell this stuff ... it could all be grown right here.

Drugs are ONLY expensive because they are illegal ... its simply the Black Market factoring in the risks associated with illegal trade into their overhead.

If you truly want to cripple the taliban's finances, then legalize this stuff and take all of the profit out of it.

Continuing to do the "same ole thing", when it has been a PROVEN failure over the past decades is insanity.

[Duster]

I'm not over there fighting duster but my country is and i will use WE whenever i speak of this countries operations. Unless of course some liberal makes them wear blue helmets:mad:.

Like someone said earlier many pain medications are made from poppy so its unlikely we are gonna start destroying them anytime soon.


That a differance between you and me unless I am directly involved I never use the word WE. Kinda like the sports fan when the team they follow and when the team does good they use the term WE sure did good even tho they have not and never will step on the field or court. Put yourself in those Marines boots for one day rather then try and be politically correct and see if they fit real well when the bullets bought with the money from those poppys start flying your way.

As far as pain medications being made from the poppys there are lots of pain medications made everyday without them.

Just a after thought...I was talking with my cousins step son a few days ago before he deployed to Afgianistan for a 12 month tour. (his 3rd as he has been to Iraq twice already) he told me a story of each day last tour of Bagdad he was out on patrol they drove past a shop and they took fire each and every time. When they ask (yes they had to ask permission to return fire) to shoot back they were told no due to some big wig in the goverment owning that shop...Now answer this ..is this anyway to fight a war to win ??? IMO pretty much the same as the poppy fields, you can never support the enemy and win.

[Art]

Think about this some more ... if it were legalized, then there would be no market for the taliban to sell this stuff ... it could all be grown right here.

Drugs are ONLY expensive because they are illegal ... its simply the Black Market factoring in the risks associated with illegal trade into their overhead.

If you truly want to cripple the taliban's finances, then legalize this stuff and take all of the profit out of it.

Continuing to do the "same ole thing", when it has been a PROVEN failure over the past decades is insanity.


I'd be for legalization of pot, but I think we'd be asking for trouble to legalize opium (heroin). That's a whole different ballgame. I think we'd be better off to legalize meth then opium.

[drakeshooter]

....Like someone said earlier many pain medications are made from poppy so its unlikely we are gonna start destroying them anytime soon.

They aren't talking about the legal, government-controlled poppy fields of India or Turkey. These are illegal fields very similar to the ones in southeast Asia like Laos, Myanmar, etc. and also in some South/Central American countries.

I would also say though, that saying that the money from this drug is used to fight our troops, while probably correct, you could say the same thing about yourself every time you fill up at the pump.

[Wildcat]

Under the Taliban there were no poppy fields, it was death go get caught growing poppy.

As for asking someone if he was ever there, the same thing can be said about the other one that bets the farmers could make a livining growing something else, was you there??? So how do you know??? That's like asking Obama and Hillary what they know about war and being in comand, were they ever there or did they service at all???

The legalization of drugs is the same old, same old. I grew up with the hippies in the 60's they said the same things over and over. The real reason they want the drugs legalized is two things, they want the drugs cheaper for themeslves and they do not want to go to prision nor do they want their childern to go to prison if they get caught with drugs.

[Art]

I would also say though, that saying that the money from this drug is used to fight our troops, while probably correct, you could say the same thing about yourself every time you fill up at the pump.


Very true, but it just doesn't have that "blame the commander-in-chief" vibe to it.:D

[grouseguy]

I'd be for legalization of pot, but I think we'd be asking for trouble to legalize opium (heroin). That's a whole different ballgame. I think we'd be better off to legalize meth then opium.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, if you think about it from a strictly economic perspective ... the only thing that prohibition accomplishes is driving up the price and CREATING criminals from otherwise law abiding people, as the associated crime is directly related to the inflated costs.

[grouseguy]

The legalization of drugs is the same old, same old. I grew up with the hippies in the 60's they said the same things over and over. The real reason they want the drugs legalized is two things, they want the drugs cheaper for themeslves and they do not want to go to prision nor do they want their childern to go to prison if they get caught with drugs.

...and just how is this same old, same old system working???

Are there more and more powerful drugs now than in the 60's???

We've spent TRILLIONS over the past 40 years trying to control the "supply" side and lock up the "demand" side and the problem is worse than when we started.

Given your politics, I can see that you're a fan of standing behind and defending failed policies. Hopefully, a more "progressive" future will breed a new generation of better decision makers, who will actually learned from past failures.

[gobblergetter]

In all seriousness, is this really that big of a deal?

Haven't we already lost the so called "War on Drugs"?

How effective has the efforts been in curbing the Supply side of the drug trade?

How much are we spending to incarcerate "otherwise" non-violent offenders?

Honestly, are there more or less drugs on the streets now as opposed to when we were kids?

Think about this like the true fiscal conservatives most of you claim to be ... wouldn't it make more economic sense to legalize this stuff ... imagine how much could be saved on law enforcement, court costs, and prison expenses, and then let "natural selection" take care of most of the really problem cases ... then you wouldn't have as many welfare cases either.

Think about it, LEGALIZATION could be the true conservative answer to the drug problem.

True we may wasting time with drugs that are "non-violent" crimes but i would make a clear connection with drugs and violent crimes committed.

[gobblergetter]

What if instead of opium it was a weapons plant, where the Marines saw the very bullets being made that the Taliban would shoot at them? Would it be a big deal then? Because, that's what it might as well be. The Taliban will turn around and sell this opium and buy weapons with it. It's not just that it's being grown, it's the end result of the harvest that is the bigger deal.

I agree. The opium money is going to fund their war efforts against us.

[gobblergetter]

We are not there to destroy poppy fields.....We are there to kill the enemy until they are dead dead dead. Our military is doing a fine job of it too.

Don't you think it would be easier to kill the enemy "dead, dead, dead" if they didn't have weapons, weapons, weapons from the opium, opium, opium?

[gobblergetter]

Sorry for the multiple posts in a row. I just got time to read through and comment on some of these posts.

Where as I do understand several of your points about legalization and driving the price down etc. By this logic though; at what point do we just say forget it and legalize everything that is wrong. Why don't we legalize murder. We would save money in jails and the legal system. We would let "natural selection" take its toll. At some point the logic mentioned in legalization would evolve into complete anarchy and be unproductive for the U.S. IMO

[Wildcat]

...and just how is this same old, same old system working???

Are there more and more powerful drugs now than in the 60's???

We've spent TRILLIONS over the past 40 years trying to control the "supply" side and lock up the "demand" side and the problem is worse than when we started.

Given your politics, I can see that you're a fan of standing behind and defending failed policies. Hopefully, a more "progressive" future will breed a new generation of better decision makers, who will actually learned from past failures.

Take a good long look at the Netherlands. Most drugs are legal yet the country is almost broke. All their money goes to take care of their junkies.

The "progressives" are dying and breading out.

I still say the only reason certain people want to make drugs legal is to make it CHEAPER for themselves and their childern and also to keep themselves out of prison as well as keep their childern out of prision. The do not care what happens to others, just looking out for themselves.

[Art]

To me, the whole issue of legalizing ANY drug has to do with the safety aspect. I think it's easy to say that the war on drugs is a failed policy, but what policy isn't still failing?

I think if you legalize any drug, you have to ensure the non-drug using public that this measure will not put them in harms way. To me, that comes back to one thing. Driving. I can't imagine just how unsafe our roadways would become if ALL drugs were made legal. They're bad enough as it is, but as soon as you make some of the drugs legal to the masses our roadways would become a blood bath.

[killinmammals]

Take a good long look at the Netherlands. Most drugs are legal yet the country is almost broke. All their money goes to take care of their junkies.

The "progressives" are dying and breading out.

I still say the only reason certain people want to make drugs legal is to make it CHEAPER for themselves and their childern and also to keep themselves out of prison as well as keep their childern out of prision. The do not care what happens to others, just looking out for themselves.
Yep.
Legalizing drugs would just create more of a problem. How many new people would try them because they can't get in trouble for it. How many people would become junkies and loose their jobs. How many would we end up supporting because they became junkies on legalized drugs. How many of those junkies would turn to crime to get more drug money. :rolleyes:

[grouseguy]

Take a good long look at the Netherlands. Most drugs are legal yet the country is almost broke. All their money goes to take care of their junkies.

The "progressives" are dying and breading out.

I still say the only reason certain people want to make drugs legal is to make it CHEAPER for themselves and their childern and also to keep themselves out of prison as well as keep their childern out of prision. The do not care what happens to others, just looking out for themselves.

So what's your point ... we outlaw drugs and we're broke also. Seriously, in the past 40 years we have went from the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world.

Wildcat,

You're easily the most partisan republican on this site, so I would expect you to embrace fiscal conservatism. Sooo ... from a fiscally conservative standpoint, how can you support continuing to pump Billions into this failed policy???

Regardless of WHY you THINK some progressives want to legalize drugs ... as a fiscal conservative who is against waste and big government, how do you justify the cost/benefit of maintaining this form of prohibition on our economy???

[Art]

I think pot is the ONLY drug that should even be considered. It has been proven to be less dangerous then booze and even have some positive medical uses. We spend a ton of resources enforcing laws related to pot that could be better spent elsewhere IMO. And no, it has nothing to do with my desire to use pot or any other drug.

[drakeshooter]

I think pot is the ONLY drug that should even be considered. It has been proven to be less dangerous then booze and even have some positive medical uses. We spend a ton of resources enforcing laws related to pot that could be better spent elsewhere IMO. And no, it has nothing to do with my desire to use pot or any other drug.

I agree art. I'd wager that alcohol and nicotine kill, maim and destroy more lives in one year than all the pot in the world. It's ridiculous to have booze legal and not marijuana. Regardless of your personal stance, to say that a man can't grow, then smoke a plant in the privacy of his own home is Gastapoesque in its very nature. It's not very far off from great grandfather wanting to "hang all the long hairs on the courthouse square lawn.":D

[Scott7m]

So what's your point ... we outlaw drugs and we're broke also. Seriously, in the past 40 years we have went from the largest creditor nation in the world to the largest debtor nation in the world.

Wildcat,

You're easily the most partisan republican on this site, so I would expect you to embrace fiscal conservatism. Sooo ... from a fiscally conservative standpoint, how can you support continuing to pump Billions into this failed policy???

Regardless of WHY you THINK some progressives want to legalize drugs ... as a fiscal conservative who is against waste and big government, how do you justify the cost/benefit of maintaining this form of prohibition on our economy???


he might be a conservative, but he's not dumb enough to think that if you legalized drugs that everything would be better, because the "policy" hasn't went perfect. Lord.. I can't beleive some of this stuff you all say.. legalization of drugs, can you imagine safety on the job site? driving to the job site? I mean good grief........

[Wildcat]

Amlost all drugs were legal in the United States at one time. I'm sure you all know how Coke-Cola got it's name and back then it was the REAL thing.

A lot of men much smarter than I can ever hope to be outlawed those drugs, they saw what the drugs could do. Those men were doctors, lawyers, judges, politicans and statesmen. Congress and the State Legislatures all had a part in outlawing them.

I never thought about it as "conservative" and "progressives" until grouseguy brought it up. I was thinking more as "USER" and NON-USER" but he wanted to try to make this political. In these threads is very easy to see who is a user and who is a non-user, not just here but other forums.

Now I'm not talking about grouseguy or anybody else on this forum. But I personaly know of several old hippies that taught their kids to use drugs and some of them now have grandkids doing the drugs. I personaly know of a young lady in her early 20's who will not let her kids go over to her husbands parents house because of all the drugs that are all over the place. She never knows what they might step on or take in their mouths.

Check the history of drugs and drug laws in the United States, both democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives have all had a part in making and passing antidrug laws in America, it's all there in the history and law books.

No mater what people try to tell you, no mater how they try to wash it or spin it or make it up into something else. It all comes down to two things for them.

They want CHEAPER drugs for themselves and their childern and they also do not want to go to prison over the drugs. That is the bottom line for them. Everything else is nothing but dressing.

Do you really think drug users care about how many people died over those drugs before it go to them, do you really??? They never did before so why should they now, they just want to use the killing and the cost to make drugs legal.

[drakeshooter]

Then you read about some idiots smoking weed out of a human skull and wonder why it's illegal.:rolleyes:

[Bigspringhunter07]

AP Story dated 07 May 2008. Quite a quandry we find ourselves in.



GARMSER, Afghanistan — The Marines of Bravo Company's 1st Platoon sleep beside a grove of poppies.

Troops in the 2nd Platoon playfully swat at the heavy opium bulbs while walking through the fields.


Afghan laborers scraping the plant's gooey resin smile and wave.

Last week, the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit moved into southern Helmand province, the world's largest opium poppy-growing region, and it now finds itself surrounded by green fields of the illegal plants that produce the main ingredient of heroin.

The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derive up to $100 million a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees, money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.

Yet, the Marines are not destroying the plants.

In fact, they are reassuring villagers that the poppies won't be touched.

American commanders say the Marines would only alienate people and drive them to take up arms if they eliminated the impoverished Afghans' only source of income.

Many Marines in the field are scratching their heads over the situation.

"It's kind of weird. We're coming over here to fight the Taliban. We see this. We know it's bad., but at the same time, we know it's the only way locals can make money," said 1st Lt. Adam Lynch, 27, of Barnstable, Mass.

The Marines' battalion commander, Lt. Col. Anthony Henderson, said in an interview Tuesday that the poppy crop "will come and go" and that his troops can't focus on it when Taliban fighters around Garmser are "terrorizing the people."

"I think by focusing on the Taliban, the poppies will go away," said Henderson, a 41-year-old from Washington, D.C.

He said once the militant fighters are forced out, the Afghan government can move in and offer alternatives.

Policy draws criticism

An expert on Afghanistan's drug trade, Barnett Rubin, complained that the Marines are being put in such a situation by a "one-dimensional" military policy that fails to integrate political and economic considerations into long-range planning.

"All we hear is, not enough troops, send more troops," said Rubin, a professor at New York University.

"Then you send in troops with no capacity for assistance, no capacity for development, no capacity for aid, no capacity for governance."

Most of the 33,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan operate in the east, where the poppy problem is not as great.

But the 2,400-strong 24th Marines have taken the field in this southern growing region during harvest season.

In the poppy fields 100 feet from the 2nd Platoon's headquarters, three Afghan brothers scraped opium resin over the weekend. The youngest, 23-year-old Sardar, said his family would earn little money from the harvest.

"We receive money from the shopkeepers, then they will sell it," said Sardar, who was afraid to give his last name.

"We don't have enough money to buy flour for our families. The smugglers make the money," added Sardar, who worked alongside his 11-year-old son just 20 yards from a Marine guard post, its guns pointed across the field.

Marines may linger

Afghanistan supplies some 93 percent of the world's opium used to make heroin, and the Taliban militants earn up to $100 million from the drug trade, the United Nations estimates. The export value of this harvest was $4 billion, more than a third of the country's combined gross domestic product.

Though they aren't eradicating poppies, the Marines' presence could still have a positive effect.

Henderson said the drug supply lines have been disrupted at a crucial point in the harvest.

And Marine commanders are debating staying in Garmser longer than originally planned.

Second Lt. Mark Greenlief, 24, a Monmouth, Ill., native who commands the 2nd Platoon, said he originally wanted to make a helicopter landing zone in Sardar's field.

"But as you can see that would ruin their poppy field, and we didn't want to ruin their livelihood," he said.
Ok,
so if the farmers are making little money off it why then doesn't our
military offer a slightly higher price than what the farmers would make then take the stuff and destroy it .. wouldn't this be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone? Which would slow down the money to the taliban...
doesn't this make sence? Or does it make to much sence..

[Duster]

Ok,
so if the farmers are making little money off it why then doesn't our
military offer a slightly higher price than what the farmers would make then take the stuff and destroy it .. wouldn't this be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone? Which would slow down the money to the taliban...
doesn't this make sence? Or does it make to much sence..


I don't think it's the amount of money they get from it's sale but rather the shakedown by the Taliban for money after the sale. Fear is the main factor here. Can/Should our military make a differance by protecting the farmers...seems like another never ending situation to be involved with. By doing so would not the USA be condoning the growth and sale of Illegal drugs...Thats messed up...

[Art]

No mater what people try to tell you, no mater how they try to wash it or spin it or make it up into something else. It all comes down to two things for them.

They want CHEAPER drugs for themselves and their childern and they also do not want to go to prison over the drugs. That is the bottom line for them. Everything else is nothing but dressing.




I totally disagree that EVERYONE thinks this way. I'd like to see marijauna legalized for 1 simple reason. It's piontless to fight it. This drug has been around long enough that we know it doesn't kill you from overdoses, withdraw, ect... We know that doctors have found benefits to help those who are sick and dying. It does not gives it's users withdraws that makes them commit crimes and harm others to get a fix.

As far as the cost goes, marijauna is slightly more expensive than tobacco. You legalize it and TAX THE HELL OUT OF IT. That way you now have significant revenue, and you quit tying up our courts and prisons with people who are no danger to society. The you have the revenue and man power to go after the REAL drugs that are tearing down society, like meth and pain pills.

It's your right to think that I was raised by hippies or I just want a cheap bag of dope because I think this way. You'd be dead wrong though. I do not use drugs nor do I associate with anyone who does. I do know when something is a waste though. If we were making significant progress towards ending marijuana usage, thenm yeah, keep it going, but we're not. You know it, the police know it, the courts know it, and the people know it.

Wouldn't it be much nicer to get rid of the crime that is associated with the growing, sale, and distribution of pot and turn that into a financial windfall?

[Wildcat]

Art,

Read my post again. I said I was not talking about anybody on this forum.

I'll ask everybody something. We all are hunters on this forum and we know about the debates about and on hunting. Show me the millions of NON-HUNTERS, who is not a family member of a hunter, who are as passionate about us having our right to hunt and right to keep and bear arms as we are every day. As hunters we understand this, most people are "ok" with us hunting, not passionate supporting hunting.

I have never met you or a lot of other members here but in my lifetime I've met thousands of people though my and my family's business and I'll tell you this. 9 times out of 10 a person who is as passionate about legalizing drugs as we are about hunting uses.

We were not just talking about pot here but all drugs and the poppy fields in question were not used for pot.

I will never support the legaliztion of drugs.

[Wildcat]

Another question.

How do we know the Taliban gets any of the money??

To use another members words, how do you know, were you there??

When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan the poppy fields were outlawed and if a person was caught growing it it was death to them. The Taliban were religionous and very strick in their Islam ways, they outlawed all forms of drugs.

We know how they were when they ruled the country but have they changed and are getting money from the sale of poppys? I do not know but if they have changed and take money from the sale of drugs then what does it make them???

[Art]

Art,

Read my post again. I said I was not talking about anybody on this forum.

I'll ask everybody something. We all are hunters on this forum and we know about the debates about and on hunting. Show me the millions of NON-HUNTERS, who is not a family member of a hunter, who are as passionate about us having our right to hunt and right to keep and bear arms as we are every day. As hunters we understand this, most people are "ok" with us hunting, not passionate supporting hunting.

I have never met you or a lot of other members here but in my lifetime I've met thousands of people though my and my family's business and I'll tell you this. 9 times out of 10 a person who is as passionate about legalizing drugs as we are about hunting uses.

We were not just talking about pot here but all drugs and the poppy fields in question were not used for pot.

I will never support the legaliztion of drugs.


I'm far from passionate, I just think it's a waste of money and man power to fight marijuana. I don't support the total legalization of drugs, but all drugs are not created equal.

To relate it to hunting, I'm obviously all for hunters rights but I'm totally against high fence operations, canned hunts, and internet hunts.

For me, I feel like I can sit with an issue on one side of the fence, but I don't mind throwing a fragment of that issue over the fence when it doesn't belong on my side.

[Duster]

was you there??? So how do you know???

Those were your words Wildcat post 28.

Then you ask a question.

How do we know the Taliban gets any of the money??


Go back and read the first post...
The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derive up to $100 million a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees, money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.


I am with you on the making drugs legal..even Pot...I have to share the road with drunks now. I sure don't want to face anything worse.

[Art]

I am with you on the making drugs legal..even Pot...I have to share the road with drunks now. I sure don't want to face anything worse.


That's the thing, you already are. All the people who want to smoke pot already are. You could take a frcation of the revenue marijuana tax would provide to fight influenced drivers. They are already out there, we just don't have enough money and resources to fight it.

[Duster]

That's the thing, you already are. All the people who want to smoke pot already are. You could take a frcation of the revenue marijuana tax would provide to fight influenced drivers. They are already out there, we just don't have enough money and resources to fight it.


I don't think for one minute all the people that want/would smoke pot already are...Just like lots of other things the fear of going to jail or paying a big fine, having a arrest record that would effect employment keeps a heck of a lot that would be from doing it.

[Art]

I don't think for one minute all the people that want/would smoke pot already are...Just like lots of other things the fear of going to jail or paying a big fine, having a arrest record that would effect employment keeps a heck of a lot that would be from doing it.


Yeah, you're probably right about that to an extent, but using your same logic would you expect these people who don't smoke pot because they don't want to break a law or get fined will all of a sudden jump behind the wheel after their first puff and become criminals?

[pentail]

I have to share the road with drunks now. I sure don't want to face anything worse.

the pot smokers would be easier to avoid, they would be the ones all up on the wheel, flying down the road at the top speed of about 15 mph:D

[Duster]

the pot smokers would be easier to avoid, they would be the ones all up on the wheel, flying down the road at the top speed of about 15 mph:D

Ain't that the truth....I worked with several pot heads up north and heard storys about that more than once....:D... One guy got ran over on Interstate 94 by a big truck, the cops said he was flying low at about 10 mph in a 65 mph zone...Most likely looking for the bag of chips he dropped in the floorboard...:D

I know I sure would hate to top a hill and have one of them over the top flying low.

[Duster]

Yeah, you're probably right about that to an extent, but using your same logic would you expect these people who don't smoke pot because they don't want to break a law or get fined will all of a sudden jump behind the wheel after their first puff and become criminals?

Art I believe a heck of a lot would if it was legal.

[shot'm&hook'm]

You know what the US government will probably end up doing. burning the poppie fields and bringing the poppie farmers over here and send them to school to become some kind of 6 digit a year biologist or something!

[shot'm&hook'm]

I think the US is going to end up with a large generational gap. When all these pot smokers and Meth users wind up killing theirself with overdoses or behind the wheel or something. And the way they talk about this underage alchoholics the US will be run by a bunch of drunks.

[Wildcat]

Those were your words Wildcat post 28.

Then you ask a question.

How do we know the Taliban gets any of the money??


Go back and read the first post...
The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derive up to $100 million a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees, money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.


I am with you on the making drugs legal..even Pot...I have to share the road with drunks now. I sure don't want to face anything worse.

You missed my point.

I know what the article said. I was trying to get people to think a minute. After 9/11 we learned all we could about the Taliban on the news reports of how they killed the poppy farmers if caught growing poppy and now they are getting $100 million from the poppy fields. WOW!!! You would think they would take up Christianity next. Yea, right.

[BurleyDog]

You know what the US government will probably end up doing. burning the poppie fields and bringing the poppie farmers over here and send them to school to become some kind of 6 digit a year biologist or something!

Dang! If you know about a 6 figure biologist position anywhere let me know! Sounds awesome!

[slickhead slayer]

I'm far from passionate, I just think it's a waste of money and man power to fight marijuana. I don't support the total legalization of drugs, but all drugs are not created equal.

To relate it to hunting, I'm obviously all for hunters rights but I'm totally against high fence operations, canned hunts, and internet hunts.

For me, I feel like I can sit with an issue on one side of the fence, but I don't mind throwing a fragment of that issue over the fence when it doesn't belong on my side.

Thats where I stand. I am far from passionate about it. I am not even suggesting legalizing pot, but I am suggesting stopping the billions spent on fighting it.
Hell keep it illegal, just stop spending billions trying to stop it. I don't know a single person who wants to smoke weed that can't get it. So the fights not working.

[gobblergetter]

I found this today on Hannity and Colmes. According to them, those of you who support legalization of marijuana are on the left of the isle. LOL:D I'm sure you're exited to hear that. Check out the critique of Obama and the comments of marijuana legalization.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?videoId=291735&sMPlaylistID=

[drakeshooter]

"......left of Carter......

That is saying something!