Elk

[Multidigits]

Elk are now legal game during deer season in 97 counties.

[rlb165]

Shoot more cows!!

[rlb165]

Seriously, what's the deal?

[Multidigits]

Don't know the whole deal, but any that get out of the 14 stocked counties and 9 buffer counties can be taken as legal game by a licensed deer hunter. It was in the CJ and I assume passed Friday at the meeting.

[shogan]

Good think I didn't sell my 30-06.

Will someone tell me if this is good or bad! My gut says good so that must mean bad.

[KYhunter]

Does that change the "free ranging" or "free roaming" status? Would also be interested to know if those animals would be subject to any blood tests.

[shogan]

Dare I say KYhunter it is my uneducated opinion blood tests are not sufficient tests for CWD. If that is what you were shooting at.

[Multidigits]

You got that one right, Hogan!<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> They didn't have any gold stars avilable

The CWD testing plan is detailed in the hunting guide, and on the dept. web page. the plan is to test 1000 animals from around the state. That is a bit below 1% of the kill, or .14% of the pre-hunt est. herd. I bet they don't find CWD in the state this year.



Edited by - Multidigits on 08/25/2002 2:27:10 PM

[KYhunter]

No shogan- CWD was not my target. Just wondered if those elk harvested would be blood tested like the one harvested during the lottery hunt.

[Multidigits]

Don't know. We'll have to wait and see what's in the regulations about reporting and tele-chek and all. I just wonder how long it will be before this leads to a hit and run posching incident?

[Xtreme]

With shogan and rlb both posting on here it wont be long before this site will be as famous as Sat. Night Live!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I think the 14 county law was meant to keep them contained so we will not need unlimited cow tags in the future!<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Boss Gobbler]

Man! screw the ten dollar chance. I will just hunt in the legal counties <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> .



Edited by - Boss Gobbler on 08/25/2002 4:18:33 PM

[shogan]

OK now that we have two species to hunt can I take an antlered deer and antlered elk? It only seems fair.

[GSP]

There will be some VERY nice trespassing elk shot this year!

Pandoras box just had the lid and all 4 walls ripped off!!!

[GSP]

Gawd, I had to walk away and come back on this one. Is this the same Dept of F&W that went on record last year, "calling Virginia a bunch of dumbasses for promoting the exact same thing"<font size=5>??????</font id=size5>

We are talking a region that has had plenty of poaching problems, "I know, I'm from there", and we just give free passes to shoot elk???

Talk about your PR!!!! We've beat the deer poaching to death here, concerning the "value" of animals. What does this message send to the "good old boy system" of local goverment when Billy Bob shoots an Elk 100 feet over in Johnson instead of Morgan County????
You know, I guess I feel like the biggest dumbass ever. Of all the things that I saw posted on the agenda, this one I would have bet the farm on as never coming to the table. I know many have had luke-warm feelings on the elk, but I look at it as over 1/2 million dollars of your money already invested and now we will see MANY shot because they can't read.

Boy, this will increase the hell out of the lottery buys!!!!!!
Let's see, I can spend $10 for a 1 in 5000 chance or I can spend $0 and bait/call one 1/2 mile over a 14 day period?????????

[rlb165]

Here it is:

http://www.courier-journal.com/cjsports/news2002/08/25/sp082502s264626.htm

[Xtreme]

This is a subject that only on one other rare occasion have I "let er rip". I'm not a big fan of this project but.

A. I don't live near there so I don't reap any benefits nor do I see first hand the good or bad.

B. I have some good friends who think it's a good idea so I usually keep quiet.


Now, for reality to set in. I have heard more than one CO say "what are they gonna do when the damn things spread beyond the "border"?....I guess we have our answer.

I'm like you GSP, I thought these were sacred cows and had no chance for this to fly but we committed the age old sin of ass-umeing. I admit I never gave it a thought.

I've heard that there have been a few that have turned up quite a ways away from "Elk Ville". There is a big difference in a 125 lb deer in your garden or the front grill of your car vs. a 1000 lb. Elk.

I guess we will see the contents of Pandora's box.

[mossyhorns]

Here's the text of Garth's article. Looks like crossbows are in, too. Does anyone know what the hell goes on at those commission meetings?

"Beginning with the 2003-04 Kentucky deer season, a legal deer hunter will be allowed to take any bull or cow elk outside the 14-county elk restoration zone and the nine-county elk buffer zone bordering the restoration area.

The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources Commission made the move during Friday's quarterly meeting in Frankfort. The regulation is intended to prevent the elk herd from expanding outside the targeted restoration area, according to Deputy Commissioner Roy Grimes.

The 14 counties in that zone are Johnson, Martin, Pike, Floyd, Magoffin, Breathitt, Perry, Knott, Letcher, Leslie, Clay, Harlan, Knox and Bell. Buffer counties are Lawrence, Elliott, Morgan, Wolfe, Lee, Owsley, Jackson, Laurel and Whitley. Elk may not be taken from those counties.

The elk restoration program began in 1995 with seven animals. Elk captured from wild herds in several Western states have been released in Kentucky annually, and stocking should be completed within two years. The herd now totals roughly 2,500.

The nine-member commission also established a two-day statewide youth turkey hunt, beginning next year on the first Saturday in April. It will be open to youngsters 15 and younger and will be structured similar to the popular youth deer hunt in October.

The commission also approved the use of crossbows for turkey hunting during the spring and fall firearm seasons and established a statewide bobcat season. Both changes will take effect in 2003.

For more information call the Fish and Wildlife Department at (800) 858-1549." <i></i>

[Xtreme]

They only legalized crossbows when the firearms turkey seasons are in.

[GSP]

ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!
The posting of details makes it worse! They are not allowed in the "border counties", but can't be controled there. They may be controlled in the bordering, border counties. So if they come into the border counties (which they have), were does it really end?
Everyone knew this would be an issue down the road, but to sign, seal and deliver in one meeting???
Folks this is exaclty why we must be pro-active! I see wholesale slaughter of elk coming up.

[GSP]

Where in the heck is Birdman?

[Xtreme]

Rick A. do you think we would have a chance at a reversal? I'm ready and willing to let the dogs out on this if we vote to draft a letter.

It's your all's call. I don't hunt Elk and I don't live there but as prez I'm on the launch pad.

[MULESKINNER]

The first year of the stocking my first question regarding elk to Roy was what is the departments contingency plan for when one of these nomadic creatures decides to instinctively head west and move outside of the restoration area. His reply was "They wont wander, we'll take care of it." It looks like they are taking care of it.

Good or bad for elk, I don't know. I guess we'll see.
The part I don't get is why all the ruckus about those awful Virginians. Who in Virginia do I write our apology letter too.
We must look like a bunch of A$$es.
L A T E R . . .

[shogan]

Yep I know I shouldn't of said a thing. I'll put the 30-06 away I wonder if walmart carries an elk bugle.

[GSP]

I'm going to wait until Sept 4th and ask Frank Brown at the Federation meeting what is going on. This will be a great setting. We are meeting in Powell County on top of a hill that over looks 3 counties where killing elk will be legal. There will be elk within 5 miles of the county lines we are looking at. The CO's have been put in a bad place. The Dept has de-valued the elk, same as the deer.
I guess what has touqued me so much on this is the PR. (Why should a judge care if it was 100 yards out of place?).

They opened the doors to sponsered poaching. This argument is the same as everyone is using on the turkey/cross-bow and it is exactly why you can't coyote hunt during gun season with out a deer tag. POTENTIAL harm.
Actually, during those 14 days, probably few elk will be shot. It goes back to the same arguement I've heard many make on other subjects. Someone will nail a world record elk during deer season and everyone will know damn well it was not legal!
Folks don't get me wrong, I ain't a big elk supporter, but I can't stand the thought of "sponsered" poaching that has been passed.

[Strutter]

Estill county has a bunch of elk. I predict this will change this year as many, many people know where they are and their routines as they watch them regularly. This really sucks that they did this. I don't think their "buffer" zone is big enough. Many of you know where the army depot is here in Richmond. A guy I work with lives a couple miles from there and has pics of elk taken from his front porch. Those elk too will more than likely bite the dust this year.
Makes no sense to me where these people get the logic to vote things like this in.

Strutter

[Multidigits]

Rick H. & Rick--This was the plan from the get go. It was even mentioned by Roy when the Virgina elk was killed. I'm not agains't trying to get this reversed, but we need to offer an alternative plan on what to do with the out of zone elk. My choice would be to do nothing, and let them be free roaming, but I know that won't happen. They made promises that they won't go to Western Kentucky, which is where they would end up if nothing is done.

[thunderstorm]

Take note that the story in the paper says it begins in 2003...not this year. You all are already talking about doing it this year. I think the buffer area needed to be bigger, especially up around the Breathitt/Powell Co. area.

[CSS archer]

Part of the initial proposal was to restrict the elk to the 14 county restoration zone where less than 1-3% agriculture occurred. The KY Farm Bureau did not oppose this. They would have if elk were allowed to expand beyond those boundaries.
Elk frequently leave the zone and return from the buffer counties, when they leave the buffer counties even further they may not. The one county wide buffer zone around the 14 should protect those line-jumpers.

What is better...allowing legal deer hunters to harvest those wandering animals or sending KDFWR employees there to kill them? After all, elk without radio active collars are nearly impossible to tranqulize and move.

I know of no KDFWR staff complaining about VA's decision to not allow elk to reside there, I heard lots of elk fans complaining, and I wish VA had joined in on the eastern elk restoration, but it is their right to not.

When this hunting opportunity occurs in 2003, anyone taking an elk will have to report it to KDFWR and have the kill inspected in the location it was harvested.

Another of the reasons for this is escaped and released farm animals such as in Daviess County and Menifee, and who knows where.

This should definitely increase the property values in much of the affected areas!

[shogan]

So does that mean I can take an elk January 1, and does it constitute 1 of my one antlered tag or do we get new tags for elk.

I am not excited about shooting elk. I think shooting elk is bad. You'll never catch me shooting elk. ((Walmart does not yet carry the elk bugle but you can get it from Cabelas))

[GSP]

Folks, It is a done deal. Strutter knows and said exactly what I feel and exactly what will happen.
Why couldn't we deal with these strays with a control premit? Something????

I want to clear up a few post here that have said the Dept never said that VA should not do what we just did!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>By Roger Alford, Associated Press

PIKEVILLE, Ky. -- Wildlife managers in Kentucky began reintroducing elk to the state in 1997 after a 150-year absence. Now they're worried that the effort may be jeopardized as elk stray into Virginia -- where they can be shot.

Virginia's Board of Game and Inland Fisheries, worried about disease and crop damage, voted 6-2 on May 3 to allow hunters to shoot any elk that stray across the mountainous border during the fall deer season.

''We support a friendly neighbor attitude,'' department spokesman Charlie Sledd said. ''It's not our intent to have an extremely detrimental effect on Kentucky's restoration program.''

Kentucky's elk herd has grown to 1,200 since the reintroduction effort began and is expected to grow to about 7,400 over the next decade. The bulls weigh 600 to 800 pounds and have antlers 3 to 6 feet in length.

<b>''I'm pretty disappointed,'' John Gassett, forest wildlife coordinator for the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, said yesterday. ''But that's their state, and they have to manage it the way they see fit.''</b>

Sledd said wildlife managers don't want elk in southwestern Virginia because a feasibility study didn't find the region suitable for the animals.

Jimmy McAuley, president of the Mountain Buck Club at Kona, on the border about 120 miles southeast of Lexington, called on Virginia authorities to grant a threeto five-year moratorium on elk hunting to allow the herds to get established.

Short of that, McAuley told The Mountain Eagle of Whitesburg, his group will appeal to Virginia sportsmen's clubs to ask hunters not to shoot the elk.

Although only male deer can legally be killed in Virginia this fall, either sex of elk can be taken.

Sledd said Virginia has no estimates on how many elk are crossing the state line. He said one was killed last year by a hunter who mistook it for a deer.

<b>''I think their concerns are unfounded,'' Gassett said. ''Technically, it's none of our business what they do in their state. We said, 'We'd rather you not do that,' and they did it anyway.''</b>

Last year, two elk from Kentucky took up residence on a golf course in Tazewell, Tenn., leaving their hoof prints on manicured greens. Those animals, along with seven to 10 others that also went across the Kentucky border, were welcome in Tennessee, which is trying to re-establish an elk herd of its own.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

[Xtreme]

Rick A. I know it took awhile for you to dig these quotes up but I have read them before as well and know them to be the truth.

It speaks well of you to be so concerned with an issue that you admittedly are not that enthused about.

With members such as yourself Cyberhunters integrity cannot be disputed.

[mossyhorns]

I guess my biggest surprise is that they didn't come up with a $20 "Bonus Elk" tag.

[CSS archer]

There is a difference in being disappointed that VA would not get on board with the restoration program and
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> , "calling Virginia a bunch of dumbasses for promoting the exact same thing"??????<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

[GSP]

CSS,
I ain't arguing your post. I just got upset when I read how the "lost" elk are going to be handled. Strutter really nailed down what I was try to get across. It seems to me that if they are out of bounds and the property owners there do not mind, then leave them alone. Seems like if they are a problem for the property owners, then a control premit could be issued by the CO in that county.
Agian, this is a done deal. I'll get over it.

[shogan]

"Kentucky's elk herd has grown to 1,200 since the reintroduction effort began and is expected to grow to about 7,400 over the next decade. The bulls weigh 600 to 800 pounds and have antlers 3 to 6 feet in length"

Yep I am glad you all talked me into keeping the 30-06. Woohoo!

You know as soon as these things start eating up the crops the farmers will start shooting them as nuisance (shoot I thought it was a deer whoops). They will think of them kinda like coyotees killing their calves. Not to mention what they will do to a car at 65 miles an hour on the bluegrass. What a mess if these guys end of Having CWD Man then you guys will be saying we told them not to bring them in here. Things have changed since the Settlers days. Hunters are not the only people who live in this state. I for one am happy that we have some in KY and we guys on the fringes of the protected area might actually get one. If the KDFWR adopted a plan that keeps us looking good in the publics eyes-I say smart move. Where do your boundries stop. Hey you folks in Indiana don't shoot our elk we paid good money to bring a few thousand here now they are wandering around but their ours. Just call and tell us where they are we will come get them.

Why am I always on the other side of these debates? Why is being defined as a sportsmen in here, mean you only consider the sportsmans side and not the state as a whole? What is good for KY is good for the sportsman. Make enough people mad at sportsman and next thing you know hunting will become a bad word. We don't have to cower but then again we don't have to shove a 600 pound field destroying elk down farmer johnsons throat and say don't shoot cause KDFWR and hunters paid for him. ((Does anyone want to talk about where farming begins in this state?))! Cut the department some slack.

I do think a 10-20 dollar elk tag would be reasonable (but why would I want another tax didn't we already pay once to bring them here) but It seems like their idea now is containment not revenue. ((Containment hum thats what you do when you want to reduce potential damage)) They might even be having some hind sight going on here!

[shogan]

A smart man makes a plan for success and sticks to it.

An even smarter man learns from his experience and adjusts his plan along the way reflecting what he has learned.

If you see with only tunnel vision you might miss the tree branch getting ready to knock you off your horse

[shogan]

Multi,

I am sorry I didn't understand all what you were saying in the first paragraph don't know if that is department or hunter jargon to which I am uninformed. By the way I'm getting the impression you work for the department or do you just read way to much!

But what I am hearing you say (which has been one of my concerns ever since I heard about elk) is that they are bringing elk in from areas that have CWD. And you are also saying they won't find CWD at the rate they are testing which to the trained ear means they aren't testing enough cause CWD is most likely being imported. Lets stop now and shoot all the darn elk before more damage is done. And I have to wonder if this is the same thing the KDFWR is thinking with one of those oh sh** momements.

[Xtreme]

My understanding was that there have been no Elk brought in from any contaminated state. I sat in a meeting where Roy G. stated they were worried at one time but to date no Elk have been imported from CWD states.

MQ1 and Glenn were in this same meeting as was Walt and Bowcrazy.

Also I heard from the beginning that the Elk were to be contained in a area that was vast but not foolproof.

Not to be a smart a$$ but I have thought all along we were trying to put 6 gallons of Elk dung in a 5 gallon bucket.

[shogan]

Xtreme:

The first question that comes to mind is; when was this they indicated that ELK were taken from un-contaminated areas? If a couple of years ago information might have been indequate. Did they do an ADEQUATE SAMPLING from the areas before starting the program? Seems like many new area's have been put on the list this year as compared to what I read last year. If these ELK came from a captive environment my bet is they had a higher chance for being infected.

Though I'm sure the man with the photographic memory will either about face me or have more precise information. This was my impression from my reading and by no means constitue any facts.

[Xtreme]

Shogan:

I sat in a UBK meeting back in Jan. and Roy G. had said at first they were afraid they may have gotten some Elk from a contaminated area/ state but had confirmed that they were safe.

I don't remember the exact details but the gist was that what we have came from a CWD free enviroment.

Haveing said that I know that it would be hard to tell a person who has never had unprotected sex with anyone but their mate and they pop up with Aids. The only clue was maybe a blood transfusion years ago or something of that nature?......I have a feeling CWD is going to do the same no matter what we do.

I hope not but.....Nature Happens!!!!

[Birdman]

Boys this issue came up while I was out, but sounds like you guys are giving it hell. This came up at our federation meeting a couple weeks ago. Our commissioner and officers were for taking the elk out side the area, I want to think, I posted it then but may not have, but anyway, CSS or anyone else that was there tell me if I'm wrong (hell that's like telling a cat to drink milk) if you have a deer tag you can take as many elk as you can, as long as their outside the area. Now at the federation meeting they were talking about buying an elk tag, because they need the money. I'm not sure if you need one or not but I feel sure, CSS can tell us. The meetings that I attended before the stocking began Roy's statement was any elk outside the area would be killed, but at the same meeting he also said that the elk was not going to cost the hunters of Ky. a cent.

In my opinion to some extent every statement on this thread has a good point. That's what makes this so hard to except, hell no one is really wrong. Kill or not to kill. There's one thing about it, we dawm sure have something to talk about.

When you think about elk in Ky. or Eastern Ky. think TOURISM.

[taggedout]

Let's see, our cabin sits on the Morgan Menifee Co. line.
Think I'll sit on the front porch to hnt this year. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Grummybear

[Multidigits]

What about having an elk drive the day before season!!! Just kidding.

Thanks Ronnie for the report and for attending the meeting!!! Hope you feeling better.

[shogan]

I've decided to respond directly

ANYONE WHO THOUGHT MY PREVIOUS POST WAS HELLBENT ON STIRING UP SH** or just worthless. PLEASE EMAIL ME I WOULD VALUE THE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I will not respond I will just absorb and try and learn from any constructive criticism. I really do want to be a positive to this board (outside of a little humor).

Edited by - shogan on 08/27/2002 5:03:55 PM

Edited by - shogan on 08/27/2002 5:08:49 PM

[Multidigits]

Xtreme--What Roy told you in January was true at that time. New Mexico turned up positive in late May or early June.

[Multidigits]

Shogan--I not mad, I'm used to being in trouble with somebody. Your opinions are fine. No problem there. But you have posted several things as acts that have been false. That's not a problem but if somebody tries to correctly inform you, you don't need to make wise cracks and other jokes about them(ei.-Psycho women,Ben Dover,horse apples, etc.)

A lot of what your describing above about CWD has to do with prions other than CWD. CWD affects only cevids or bovids. The reason that it's found in fenced enclosures more so than in the wild is simple. That's where it's been looked for. They test these animals at a lot higher rate than others. The plan the state has this year will hardly make a dent in really trying to see if the disease is here.

I'm not in favor of stopping the importation of elk or the elk project as a whole. I hope it succeeds in fact.

I don't make the news, I just report it!

Send in your dues, we need different opinions.

[Xtreme]

As I recall a mule deer or antelope turned up with it on the White Sands Missile Range correct?....It also has them baffled ?

[CSS archer]

The opportunity for taking elk outside the buffer zone won't start until the fall 2003 deer season.

I asked where the KY elk from NM came from and was told they were 400 miles from the White Sands Range, a different elk herd. If CWD had been documented there before, we would not have NM elk. The KS captive elk came from a CO ranch, which sent infected animals to several other states and Canadian Provinces as well.

I was also told that we would not be bringing any more elk to KY since we are already 10 years ahead of schedule. The reproduction from stocking more than 200 a year has surpassed what would have been done with the 9 years of 200 animals. Our target population of 7200 animals should be reached in 5-7 years.

If you have questions, by all means write or call Jonathan Day.

[Xtreme]

Well Joe L. my old friend. It's a rare occasion you and I agree. We are however a model on how Cyberhunters is supposed to work. We disagree at times but are friends to the end!

I'm glad to see you circle the camp quite often and pitch in to keep us thinking. Tell Lora hi for me.........Rick.

[shogan]

SO if you take an elk will you eat it or have your kids eat or just hang it on the wall.

Proof is in the pudding folks. Of course from what I've seen in the unlikely case your elk had any such condition as long as you stay away from spin, bone marrow, and brains you should be ok moslty probably.

I'm still eating deer but I'm going to pass on the ELK. Wonder if the butcher will still process an elk for 40 bucks and give it to the hungry. I know my reasoning has little foundation but I'll feel better just looking at it.

[Multidigits]

Here's a copy of a Resolution introduced by the Senate and signed by the Gov. on March 28. Taken from the congressional Record and to be sent to neighboring states. Sounds like the commission didn't get a copy???


A CONCURRENT RESOLUTION supporting the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resource's efforts to gain the cooperation of neighboring states in managing Kentucky's "heritage wildlife," the magnificent elk.

WHEREAS, Kentucky's native elk herd last roamed the hills of Kentucky during the time of the Civil War; and

WHEREAS, in December 1997 the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources began a carefully planned and executed reintroduction of elk to their historic Kentucky range; and

WHEREAS, the department's efforts have resulted in a herd that today numbers 1,400 elk of what may be described as Kentucky's "heritage wildlife" because the reintroduction is filling eastern Kentucky's hills with a wildlife bounty unknown for over 150 years; and

WHEREAS, the department successfully educated Kentucky's local government officials, farmers, hunters, tourism specialists, and wildlife enthusiasts of the challenges arising from the reintroduction and the department's preparations to meet those challenges; and

WHEREAS, the department's educational efforts led to understanding and acceptance of the elk thus making possible the economic benefits now coming to fruition in eastern Kentucky; and

WHEREAS, with the elk herd grown to significant size, now is the time to work with Kentucky's neighboring states toward understanding and acceptance of the reintroduction plan so that the economic benefits flowing from the herd can be spread throughout the region;

NOW, THEREFORE,
Be it resolved by the Senate of the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, the House of Representatives concurring therein:

Section 1. The efforts of the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources to inform neighboring states about Kentucky's elk reintroduction program and to gain cooperation in managing the herd is supported and encouraged. The elk reintroduction success has been built upon educating Kentuckians that the released elk are from disease-free wild herds; that site selection for the release minimizes potential crop damage; that disease transfer between the elk herd and the deer population would be carefully monitored; and that development of the herd would lead to greatly enhanced wildlife hunting and viewing opportunities and increased tourism in eastern Kentucky. A similar educational effort in our neighboring states can overcome misconceptions and fears engendered by Kentucky elk colonizing or temporarily migrating to bordering states. With greater knowledge of the department's reintroduction program, surrounding states will realize that they too can benefit from the presence of this magnificent animal and the entire region surrounding eastern Kentucky will be economically strengthened from Kentucky's "heritage wildlife."