Hb576

[raktrakr]

I'm not asking to support or oppose,thats your dscision. I'm just posting the info for those that may have concern


Take Action on HB 576




HB 576 Bill would require that each county within the sixteen county elk zone receive five elk permits that would be restricted to residents of that county. Currently KDFWR does not capture information on residence of hunter. This would require an expensive change to the license system and it would set a bad precedent for other quota hunts. Kentucky’s wildlife is owned by all Kentuckians. KDFWR opposes this bill. Please contact your senator and voice your concern on HB 576.Yours in conservation,

Jon Woodall
President, Kentucky Fish & Wildlife Foundation

Action Needed:
Contact or e-mail your Senator regarding HB 576
Deadline for responding: Please take action by Friday, March 28, 2008.

[slickhead slayer]

I called, I strongly oppose this bill

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

I strongly support HB 576, and Im sure many others on here do as well.

[Multidigits]

I called. ;)

[buckdroppings]

this could pose some interesting discussion.

[slickhead slayer]

Eastern Ky has been sucking the rest of states tax money for years and years. Now they complain that its not fair that they have the elk, but don't get a larger chance at elk permits.
If we do this on the premise that an area gets to keep most of their own resources, so be it. Lex, Louisville, Paducah, Owensboro, etc will get to keep more of their tax money. E Ky will then have elk, just no roads, police, fire, social services, schools, etc, etc.

Fish and Wildlife is against this for a reason.

[lonesomepine]

Eastern Ky has been sucking the rest of states tax money for years and years. Now they complain that its not fair that they have the elk, but don't get a larger chance at elk permits.
If we do this on the premise that an area gets to keep most of their own resources, so be it. Lex, Louisville, Paducah, Owensboro, etc will get to keep more of their tax money. E Ky will then have elk, just no roads, police, fire, social services, schools, etc, etc.

Fish and Wildlife is against this for a reason.


I beg to differ at this quote,for DECADES sportsmen in the Eastern third of Kentucky paid their dues and were ignored by the KDF&W while they spent the money mostly in the Western end of the state,While I don't necessarily agree with this bill,To say Eastern Ky has got more than it's fair share is ludicrous,for years we were ignored until the Elk arrived and the residents there deal with the damage from these Elk whereas folks in Western Ky have little or NO idea about this end of the state,half you guys have never even been there.That said I disagree with this Bill.

[headoftheholler]

I beg to differ at this quote,for DECADES sportsmen in the Eastern third of Kentucky paid their dues and were ignored by the KDF&W while they spent the money mostly in the Western end of the state,While I don't necessarily agree with this bill,To say Eastern Ky has got more than it's fair share is ludicrous,for years we were ignored until the Elk arrived and the residents there deal with the damage from these Elk whereas folks in Western Ky have little or NO idea about this end of the state,half you guys have never even been there.That said I disagree with this Bill.
Keep in mind that after previous generations poached and wiped out all the wildlife in eastern Ky it was the KDFW that restocked deer and turkey extensivly in east Ky from western kentucky counties. Not many years ago Floyd Co. (my home county) didn't allow hunting and we had to go out to west Ky to hunt. Now thanks to KDFW I saw 8 turkey and 2 deer on my way to work this morning along us 23; something unfathomable years ago.
On a personal note I think the drawing should be left as is. We are all part of a commonwealth and the states resources should be shared equally among us without giving priveledge or precedent to anyone.
-Andrew

[lonesomepine]

Keep in mind that after previous generations poached and wiped out all the wildlife in eastern Ky it was the KDFW that restocked deer and turkey extensivly in east Ky from western kentucky counties. Not many years ago Floyd Co. (my home county) didn't allow hunting and we had to go out to west Ky to hunt. Now thanks to KDFW I saw 8 turkey and 2 deer on my way to work this morning along us 23; something unfathomable years ago.
On a personal note I think the drawing should be left as is. We are all part of a commonwealth and the states resources should be shared equally among us without giving priveledge or precedent to anyone.
-Andrew

Yes,and there was a time it was rare to see a deer anywhere in Kentucky,they took care of Western Ky first,now when it's turnabout fair play these guys out west want to complain about it.

[hollow_rat]

Eastern Ky has been sucking the rest of states tax money for years and years. Now they complain that its not fair that they have the elk, but don't get a larger chance at elk permits.
If we do this on the premise that an area gets to keep most of their own resources, so be it. Lex, Louisville, Paducah, Owensboro, etc will get to keep more of their tax money. E Ky will then have elk, just no roads, police, fire, social services, schools, etc, etc.

Fish and Wildlife is against this for a reason.
our tax dollars goes somewhere for they sure dont use them here
i would like to see them not have a restoration zone make it statewide.the reason KDFW is against this is because thay cant do favors for some people

[lonesomepine]

our tax dollars goes somewhere for they sure dont use them here
i would like to see them not have a restoration zone make it statewide.the reason KDFW is against this is because thay cant do favors for some people

Not enough habitat for elk anywhere else in Ky,doubt they'd go over to good with farmers and urban areas like Jefferson County.

[slickhead slayer]

our tax dollars goes somewhere for they sure dont use them here
i would like to see them not have a restoration zone make it statewide.the reason KDFW is against this is because thay cant do favors for some people

EKy gets FAR more tax dollars back then they put in.

[Rob]

Both folks from eastern Ky & folks from west Ky are going to have both problems & rewards based on where we live. Here in the west, we have lots of deer but that is because we have the habitat to support those deer, not because of a massive infusion of cash aimed this direction. And those deer cause huge crop damage for the farmers in this area, for which those farmers get relatively little return on their "investment". So, do I think hunters from west Ky should be able to harvest 2 bucks/yr because they bear a disproportionate share of the burden for the state's deer? No way! I don't believe in special privledge for anyone based simply on where they live within the state. Eastern Ky has all the elk & the grouse. Again, this is because they have more suitable habitat. So, when we hear that money is going to Eastern Ky for improvement of grouse habitat, we should all be pleased because that will mean better habitat for all wildlife.

I know elk present their own unique problems & have no objection to the KDFWR being enabled to remedy those problems, whether thru removal of problem animals or thru some sort of restitution to those individuals who are affected. What I don't believe is a free ride on elk tags for a select few folks who may or may not be affected by elk problems just because they happen to live near where the elk are.

[barney]

I have a neighbor, that has "taken care" of several neighborhood dogs, for getting in his garbage, or even passing through his property. I saw him "snap" when a dog was heading toward his land, he said, that #$!@ is just coming over here to crap, I'll fix him!
But ironically, he supports the elk, to the point, that we have had "words", He said the elk, are their problem, they will just have to learn to deal with um.
Just seems funny to me, that most of us, want to protect what in ours, but don't care in the least about our neighbors?

[hollow_rat]

i dont see why they dont lift the lines and also make it whoever comes out in the draw

[mudhole crossing]

Eastern Ky has been sucking the rest of states tax money for years and years. Now they complain that its not fair that they have the elk, but don't get a larger chance at elk permits.
If we do this on the premise that an area gets to keep most of their own resources, so be it. Lex, Louisville, Paducah, Owensboro, etc will get to keep more of their tax money. E Ky will then have elk, just no roads, police, fire, social services, schools, etc, etc.

Fish and Wildlife is against this for a reason.
the way i took this bill is just a lil bribery to keep us quite and maybe detour some of the complaining about the elk. well slick, if u ever get drawn, u HAVE to come here to hunt em. bet ya dont talk that sh*t about sucking tax dollars in front of us east ky boys and gals! do u think degrading us is going to make ur elk hunt easy? if u do, then ur STUPID! we got the elk and if u want to hunt em, u gotta tread on our turf. keep it up, and it wont be easy! no more freebies 'round here for a$$holes like u! if u already have been drawn for an elk, i c why u oppose the bill!

[turkeytalker]

I strongly support this bill.

[slickhead slayer]

well slick, if u ever get drawn, u HAVE to come here to hunt em. bet ya dont talk that sh*t about sucking tax dollars in front of us east ky boys and gals! do u think degrading us is going to make ur elk hunt easy? if u do, then ur STUPID! we got the elk and if u want to hunt em, u gotta tread on our turf. keep it up, and it wont be easy! no more freebies 'round here for a$$holes like u! if u already have been drawn for an elk, i c why u oppose the bill!

Degrading you? LOL.......I am talking facts, nothing more. Pretty mature to call me stupid, threaten me, and call me an a-hole, and then accuse me of degrading you. LOL

No matter how much you don't like it, EKY gets FAR more tax dollars than they pay in. Louisville, Lex, etc only get about 40% of what they put in. Without the big cities EKY wouldn't have the things they do. If that bothers your ego, sorry, its a fact.
We pay for EKy roads, police, schools, fire, EMS, garbage pickup, sewers, etc, etc, etc. And you want to complain about how you own the "turf" and the "elk" etc etc.
I will tell anyone from Eky, WKy, central Ky, Northern Ky etc what I think of this bill. Its not fair you take millions of our tax dollars EVERY year, but want to hog the elk. I have no bones about telling anyone, anywhere that.;)

[turkeytalker]

Degrading you? LOL.......I am talking facts, nothing more. Pretty mature to call me stupid, threaten me, and call me an a-hole, and then accuse me of degrading you. LOL

No matter how much you don't like it, EKY gets FAR more tax dollars than they pay in. Louisville, Lex, etc only get about 40% of what they put in. Without the big cities EKY wouldn't have the things they do. If that bothers your ego, sorry, its a fact.
We pay for EKy roads, police, schools, fire, EMS, garbage pickup, sewers, etc, etc, etc. And you want to complain about how you own the "turf" and the "elk" etc etc.
I will tell anyone from Eky, WKy, central Ky, Northern Ky etc what I think of this bill. Its not fair you take millions of our tax dollars EVERY year, but want to hog the elk. I have no bones about telling anyone, anywhere that.;)


Slick you are talking about taxes right?I can understand your case but don't piss down others back and tell them its raining.

Luckily i can debate this with you because we are both bent over when it comes to taxes,but that don't make it right,yes those in the east do seem to vote in every politician who will raise taxes and i agree that they should feel it by revenue,not the wrath of the KDFWR.

[mudhole crossing]

Degrading you? LOL.......I am talking facts, nothing more. Pretty mature to call me stupid, threaten me, and call me an a-hole, and then accuse me of degrading you. LOL

No matter how much you don't like it, EKY gets FAR more tax dollars than they pay in. Louisville, Lex, etc only get about 40% of what they put in. Without the big cities EKY wouldn't have the things they do. If that bothers your ego, sorry, its a fact.
We pay for EKy roads, police, schools, fire, EMS, garbage pickup, sewers, etc, etc, etc. And you want to complain about how you own the "turf" and the "elk" etc etc.
I will tell anyone from Eky, WKy, central Ky, Northern Ky etc what I think of this bill. Its not fair you take millions of our tax dollars EVERY year, but want to hog the elk. I have no bones about telling anyone, anywhere that.;)
heck, we might as well move ur way and leave this place for an elk sanctuary. if i could only get u to get up at 5:oo am and go to work for me, i would have it made. if it wasnt for these coal miners busting their butts 7 days a week and gettin half the pay they deserve, u wouldnt be wiping ur butt with charmin either. i work everyday and u dont pay none of my bills. east ky hunters paid for years to hunt YOUR deer herds; the tables are turning. why? because of people like u. i dont think giving these counties tags is going to help anything either. but, that doesnt have nothing to do with east and west ky. if ky is always going to be divided, nothing is ever going to be successful. hey, i hope u do get drawn and have success. that doesnt bother me a bit. i dont even enter the lottery. but what does bother me is u thinking ur better than me from a human stand point. think what u want i guess!

[slickhead slayer]

heck, we might as well move ur way and leave this place for an elk sanctuary. if i could only get u to get up at 5:oo am and go to work for me, i would have it made. if it wasnt for these coal miners busting their butts 7 days a week and gettin half the pay they deserve, u wouldnt be wiping ur butt with charmin either. i work everyday and u dont pay none of my bills. east ky hunters paid for years to hunt YOUR deer herds; the tables are turning. why? because of people like u. i dont think giving these counties tags is going to help anything either. but, that doesnt have nothing to do with east and west ky. if ky is always going to be divided, nothing is ever going to be successful. hey, i hope u do get drawn and have success. that doesnt bother me a bit. i dont even enter the lottery. but what does bother me is u thinking ur better than me from a human stand point. think what u want i guess!

Where in the world did I ever say or even imply that I am better than you from a human standpoint? I didn't, and I don't think that.
I am merely giving my opinion on an issue, never said anything about you or anyone else specifically. My issue is with the bill. We have paid lots of tax dollars that never come back to us, but goes to EKy and other rural areas. Thats fine I don't have a problem with that, but then they want to pass a bill thats gives the counties a quarter of the tags. Seems a tad unfair.
You said EKy hunters paid for years for our deer herds. Did anyody in WKy or central Ky propose that they get a certain percentage of those deer tags? Of course they didn't, they belong to all Ky's, regardless of where they reside. How about all the duck and goose blinds in WKy, should WKy residents get more chances to hunt those than you and I? Of course not.
As sportsmen, we have all paid for wildlife across the state, and NEVER has one area had more rights to those animals. And now some want EKY to have that right. Thats doesn't seem fair to me.

[slickhead slayer]

Slick you are talking about taxes right?I can understand your case but don't piss down others back and tell them its raining.

Luckily i can debate this with you because we are both bent over when it comes to taxes,but that don't make it right,yes those in the east do seem to vote in every politician who will raise taxes and i agree that they should feel it by revenue,not the wrath of the KDFWR.

Thats not what I am saying turkeytalker. In this state very few small towns and rural areas pay enough taxes to pay for their own services. Their communities get far more tax money back then they put in. The big cities only get about 40% of the state taxs they pay, to come back.
Most rural towns get 110%,120% all the way up to 200% coming back to their communities than they put in. So if a small rural town puts in $1 mill a year in taxes, but $2 mill comes back to them for education, roads, police, etc, etc, guess where that comes from?
My point was, other cities in Ky have paid for alot of EKy's roads, schools, services for years and years. And now EKY thinks they should have a large chunk of the elk tags. That seems a little tough to swallow.

[mudhole crossing]

Where in the world did I ever say or even imply that I am better than you from a human standpoint? I didn't, and I don't think that.
I am merely giving my opinion on an issue, never said anything about you or anyone else specifically. My issue is with the bill. We have paid lots of tax dollars that never come back to us, but goes to EKy and other rural areas. Thats fine I don't have a problem with that, but then they want to pass a bill thats gives the counties a quarter of the tags. Seems a tad unfair.
You said EKy hunters paid for years for our deer herds. Did anyody in WKy or central Ky propose that they get a certain percentage of those deer tags? Of course they didn't, they belong to all Ky's, regardless of where they reside. How about all the duck and goose blinds in WKy, should WKy residents get more chances to hunt those than you and I? Of course not.
As sportsmen, we have all paid for wildlife across the state, and NEVER has one area had more rights to those animals. And now some want EKY to have that right. Thats doesn't seem fair to me.
maybe i took ur reply wrong slick, sorry. to me it sounded like we were a burden to west ky. hell, maybe we are. i dont think 5 tags per elk county will solveanything at all. not fair. i do believe theres gonna have to be some control tags put in place for certain areas or a relocation system. some residents dont care for sh*t piles big as place mats scattered over their yard. but, stacking the elk lottery, not an effective solution.

[barney]

Degrading you? LOL.......I am talking facts, nothing more. Pretty mature to call me stupid, threaten me, and call me an a-hole, and then accuse me of degrading you. LOL

No matter how much you don't like it, EKY gets FAR more tax dollars than they pay in. Louisville, Lex, etc only get about 40% of what they put in. Without the big cities EKY wouldn't have the things they do. If that bothers your ego, sorry, its a fact.
We pay for EKy roads, police, schools, fire, EMS, garbage pickup, sewers, etc, etc, etc. And you want to complain about how you own the "turf" and the "elk" etc etc.
I will tell anyone from Eky, WKy, central Ky, Northern Ky etc what I think of this bill. Its not fair you take millions of our tax dollars EVERY year, but want to hog the elk. I have no bones about telling anyone, anywhere that.;)
Maybe the elk lottery should be done away with, and the legislature should just, divide the tags up the way they see fit?:rolleyes: That sounds like parents, keeping a book, on every single dollar they spend on their children, from day one. Then demanding payment for services rendered, when they get out on their own........"Now listen here, Johnny Jr........ you did spill that cup of Kool-aid, on 5/18/1989 when you were 22 months old, I have it wrote down right here, that will be .........23 cents!" And heres that lollipop, you just had to have, at the check out line at wal-mart, in 92....that will be 48 cents...LOL.........I have had "friends" like this also, I could work a week for them, for free....but they show up to visit, while I'm unloading a load of feed, and they pitch in for 10 minutes........and its never forgotten?:rolleyes:

The way I see it, those tax dollars, have nothing to do with the elk! And those tax dollars, where ever they go,within the state, benifit the state as a whole, helping every citizen in the process. I don't begrudge, where my tax dollars go............as long as its not in a polliticians pocket!;)

[lonesomepine]

I'm "pretty sure" (note sarcasm) that ALL those Western Ky counties are thriving "Metropolises" that give out more in Tax Dollars than their brethren in Eastern Ky,ever see the amount that Coal Money puts into this state? I'll bet if All the Coal Money stayed in Eastern Ky they wouldn't need money from those URBAN WESTERN KY counties.I get tired of people trying to crap on folks in Eastern Ky,My families roots go back to pre-Daniel Boone on the Ky-Va border and folks there have done just as much for this state as anywhere else.Growing up I watched for years good habitat sit idle in Northern Ky while Western Ky got all the attention,I'll bet there was a larger tax proportion coming from N Ky than Butler and Ohio Counties (to name a couple),we have Zone 1 here now and our share of Deer damage,but we never acted like we were better than,in fact we still get the shortend of the stick around here.

I don't support the bill,but really what does giving locals 5 tags per county hurt?Doesn't bother me either way,not as much as somes better than thou attitudes. I think we can see where some peoples "sympathies" really lie.

[Strutter]

I wish all I had to worry about was elk or deer. I live in the middle part of the state in a town that has a college in it. Yeah, you know, the place you all, from both ends of the state, send your kids. I have to be real careful when I head out to work, especially on Thursday, Friday and Saturday mornings as the kids are most times still staggering home from the downtown bars and other assorted parties. Takes forever to drive across town when classes are lettin out. Traffic everywhere and most can't drive a lick. Can't find anyplace to park at the stores cause all the kids are there doing whatever it is that they do. Go to a restaurant and see the sign that by showing a student ID, I could get so much off the ticket. Free pizza delivery for students as well. I live here year round and pay taxes here and they get the discounts. Ain't fair I tell ya. Just the other morning I found 2 beer cans in my yard. Used up some of my valuable time to go and get them and throw them away. Who's going to pay me for that time? I"ll tell you, it's rough livin here but I guess somebody's gotta do it. I want a check from somebody to compensate me for my troubles. On the other hand, I think maybe I deserve some free deer tags for the western counties and a free elk tag for the eastern counties. Yep, that would make me feel a little better. Who do I call to get the ball rollin anyway?

(Just havin fun)
Rob

[rick243]

Currently KDFWR does not capture information on residence of hunter. This would require an expensive change to the license system



I just bought my 08' Sportsman license and Elk draw yesterday. I had to give the zip code of my place of residence in order to get it. Sounds like they already made the change.??

[slickhead slayer]

I get tired of people trying to crap on folks in Eastern Ky,My families roots go back to pre-Daniel Boone on the Ky-Va border and folks there have done just as much for this state as anywhere else.
.

Who is crapping on the folks in eastern Ky? Sure looks like to me that the rest of the state is helping EKY.
Like I said, I have no problem that Lou, Lex, Paducah, somerset, NKy, Owensboro etc pay alot of the bills of rural Ky. Just don't tell me that EKY counties deserve elk tags because thats where the elk reside. We have been sharing millions and millions of our tax revenue with EKy for years, and now we are being told that the elk "belong" to eky.
That doesn't seem fair that as a state we have always shared wildlife equally, and that EKy has gotten a disproportioned amount of tax dollars for years, and now they believe they deserve a set amount of tags.
Now how does that equate to "crapping" on EKY?:confused:

[slickhead slayer]

I have had "friends" like this also, I could work a week for them, for free....but they show up to visit, while I'm unloading a load of feed, and they pitch in for 10 minutes........and its never forgotten?:rolleyes:

The way I see it, those tax dollars, have nothing to do with the elk! And those tax dollars, where ever they go,within the state, benifit the state as a whole, helping every citizen in the process. I don't begrudge, where my tax dollars go............as long as its not in a polliticians pocket!;)

1. You suggest our tax dollars benefit the state as a whole. How does paying for garbage collection in some rural town benefit all of us? How does sidewalks in some rural town help us all? Most taxes that go back to rural towns help those people in those towns.

2. You say taxes have nothing to do with it. I disagree. The legislature tells big cities that they only get back about 40% of what they pay in. Rural towns get 150%,180%,200% etc, etc of what they put in. We are told that we have to pay for their services. Thats fine don't have a problem with it. Just don't take our money for years and then say you own the elk.

3. Your example about working for a friend for a week, and then he helps you for 10 minutes, and never forgets it. Thats what I am saying. We have given millions and millions every year to EKY, and never uttered a word. And then EKY gets a state owned resource, and they want to act liek they own it. That sounds like the guy who helped for ten minutes and doesn't forget it.

[KYBOY]

Up until 1992 only 7.6% of the 2.7 billion$ worth of coal severance tax had went back into coal producing counities since the act was initiated 20 years earlier. I think east Kys fair share of taxs go elsewhere too. If the agreed upon 50% had came back we wouldent need to rely on others for tax dollars.

[barney]

1. You suggest our tax dollars benefit the state as a whole. How does paying for garbage collection in some rural town benefit all of us? How does sidewalks in some rural town help us all? Most taxes that go back to rural towns help those people in those towns.
Helps promote tourism, in the restoration zone?:D I think, this kind of spending gives the state a better image.......which benifits the state as a whole. In my opinion, one of the better uses of the tax dollars.......one that actually, helps people.
2. You say taxes have nothing to do with it. I disagree. The legislature tells big cities that they only get back about 40% of what they pay in. Rural towns get 150%,180%,200% etc, etc of what they put in. We are told that we have to pay for their services. Thats fine don't have a problem with it. Just don't take our money for years and then say you own the elk.
I don't think anyone in EKY. claims to own the elk. but the people of EKY, do put up with the problems associated, with the elk........and I think they should be compensated, in some manner, for this burden.
3. Your example about working for a friend for a week, and then he helps you for 10 minutes, and never forgets it. Thats what I am saying. We have given millions and millions every year to EKY, and never uttered a word. And then EKY gets a state owned resource, and they want to act liek they own it. That sounds like the guy who helped for ten minutes and doesn't forget it.
I am very sure there would be no problem, what so ever, if it were not for the damage, the elk are causing. I'm sure you would'nt ask some one to baby sit for you, without compensation?

[trust me]

Taxes and elk are apples and oranges. There are lots of inequities in the state/federal tax system. No so much with our wildlife. A sportsman's tag cost the same in Fulton Co. as it does in Pike Co.

[mudhole crossing]

why didnt the dept put the elk in western part of the state or the whole state? theres more grazing out there than here anyways. guess they didnt want to hear the whole state bitch. too many fences out there i guess:confused: that would lead to hundreds of cattle roaming freely throughout the rolling hills of central and west ky. hey.........wait a minute! thats exactly what we experience here everday. free roaming herds. isnt there a herd law in ky? lmao! heck, maybe we should get all the elk tags and still be able to apply for western ky deer quota hunts at someone elses expense! thats a great deal there slickhead, dont u think? ok, im just messing with ya:D i just wanted to make ur blood pressure go up a lil. no matter what slickhead, these coal miners "will leave the light on for ya"!

[swamper]

This bill really is bigger than the East Ky vs. West Ky crap that is being spewed on here right now. It is one of a few in recent years that sets a bad precedent.....I won't mention the others, but you all know what they were.

It challenges the basic principle of the North American Model of wildlife management in that wildlife resources belong to ALL (a sportsmans license costs the same in Paducah as it does in Hazard).

Not only that, but can you imagine the can of worms this will open if passed??
- How about 1/2 the deer tags for the Ballard Quota hunt go to county residents?
- How about 1/2 the blinds in Henderson Sloughs go to county residents?
Would you be in favor of that??

We as sportsmen over the last few years have been focusing more on what will benefit us individually (or our "click"...i.e. bowhunters, crossbowers, small game hunters, etc...) instead of the dangerous and management altering effects of some of these seemingly "minor" bills that are initiated by usually small minority groups or even individuals.

[KYBOY]

It is a bad precedent. Theirs a good reason for the dept to be against it. Another reason I was so against the coyote live bill. Not so much that I cared if trappers sold coyote alive. I mean they caught them, they can do what they want with them. I dislike the back door politics used to try and circumvent the depts authority on wildlife issues. As far as the east vs west issues I try and stay away from those. Ill quote some stats sometimes but thats about it. Its rediculous really and Im ashamed to say Ive caught myself being drawn into it at times. Its just that Im very well read on appalachia and passionate about the subject. Ive spent a great deal of time in personal studys on the subject as well as college studies on the subject. Theirs a lot of myths and misconceptions about eastern,Ky and Appalachia in general.

[slickhead slayer]

I am very sure there would be no problem, what so ever, if it were not for the damage, the elk are causing. I'm sure you would'nt ask some one to baby sit for you, without compensation?

Whole lot more farm land and crops in WKy than EKY. So I would say deer in WKy do far more damage dollar wise than the elk in EKY. I am sure the figures aren't even close. But NEVER has anyone in western Ky asked for more opportunities to hunt them than anyone else in the state.
This bill would be unprecedented, not sure how some can support it.

[peckprice]

I am apalled by the attitudes that have been voiced on here so far. This is exactly the kind of "playground" mentality that will ultimately be the end of the sport that we all love. Hunters in Ky should be banding together, now more than ever, not drawing a line on the map.

[barney]

Whole lot more farm land and crops in WKy than EKY. So I would say deer in WKy do far more damage dollar wise than the elk in EKY. I am sure the figures aren't even close. But NEVER has anyone in western Ky asked for more opportunities to hunt them than anyone else in the state.
This bill would be unprecedented, not sure how some can support it.
Your exactly right. and I'm a farmer too, and fully understand, deer damage. But there is one thing you probably don't understand. In most of the state, if a family wants to grow a garden, they can pick a spot, that is suitable, for the task. A spot that is, close to their home, or a spot that is "less likely" to get severe deer damage. But EKY'ian's, don't have that privilege, most times........ Most times, their tillable land is, a small plot up a narrow holler, or on a bench, on the side of a mouintain, that can be totally wiped out, in one night. Completely destroying, the whole seasons work.
The deer no dout, do more damage....dollar wise, in western Ky. than EKY.......but, that small plot of heirloom pole beans, handed down from my deceased, grandmother, mean as much to me, as a 100 acre soybean field, does to most farmers. And To me, thats like saying, rich kids, are more important than poor kids?

I could never support, someone suffering, solely.......for my enjoyment, or benefit. If the elk were state wide?........that would be a different story.

I have farmed enough to know, that, 20 deer in a 30 acre soybean field, do far less damage than one elk, in a garden spot, on a bench!;)

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

Your exactly right. and I'm a farmer too, and fully understand, deer damage. But there is one thing you probably don't understand. In most of the state, if a family wants to grow a garden, they can pick a spot, that is suitable, for the task. A spot that is, close to their home, or a spot that is "less likely" to get severe deer damage. But EKY'ian's, don't have that privilege, most times........ Most times, their tillable land is, a small plot up a narrow holler, or on a bench, on the side of a mouintain, that can be totally wiped out, in one night. Completely destroying, the whole seasons work.
The deer no dout, do more damage....dollar wise, in western Ky. than EKY.......but, that small plot of heirloom pole beans, handed down from my deceased, grandmother, mean as much to me, as a 100 acre soybean field, does to most farmers. And To me, thats like saying, rich kids, are more important than poor kids?

I could never support, someone suffering, solely.......for my enjoyment, or benefit. If the elk were state wide?........that would be a different story.

I have farmed enough to know, that, 20 deer in a 30 acre soybean field, do far less damage than one elk, in a garden spot, on a bench!;)

Barney good post. Here's one thing that gets me. Slick you like to use this type of argument alot. ----> The people in western/central Kentucky are subjected to a lot more deer 'crop' damage than anyone else in the state and you don't see them crying for 2 buck tags as a result. Think about this before you use that weak line again. You obviously don't take into consideration all the tools in place for farmers in these areas to remedy deer damage. A lot of these areas are zone one. That means..

1. You can shoot a doe EVERYDAY that walks into your bean field. If you need more help call your buddies up, pull out the 30-06's and blast that pack of ten doe's that likes to visit the field every evening.

2. Heck, if utilizing the zone one bag limits doesn't work (which should in most cases, 8 buddies - 8 doe's killed a day) you can get Crop destruction tags. That allows you to kill even larger limits of deer. You can even shoot them when the season is over.

You combine those two tools, and farmers in these areas have pretty good means of controling their problems.

What tools do the residents of Eky who are effected by the elk have? You like to use the western ky deer herd/farming argument alot and there is NO comparison. As of right now all we have is a 1-800 number to call. But, Im waiting for your answer to the question above??

[slickhead slayer]

Barney good post. Here's one thing that gets me. Slick you like to use this type of argument alot. ----> The people in western/central Kentucky are subjected to a lot more deer 'crop' damage than anyone else in the state and you don't see them crying for 2 buck tags as a result. Think about this before you use that weak line again. You obviously don't take into consideration all the tools in place for farmers in these areas to remedy deer damage. A lot of these areas are zone one. That means..

1. You can shoot a doe EVERYDAY that walks into your bean field. If you need more help call your buddies up, pull out the 30-06's and blast that pack of ten doe's that likes to visit the field every evening.

2. Heck, if utilizing the zone one bag limits doesn't work (which should in most cases, 8 buddies - 8 doe's killed a day) you can get Crop destruction tags. That allows you to kill even larger limits of deer. You can even shoot them when the season is over.

You combine those two tools, and farmers in these areas have pretty good means of controling their problems.

What tools do the residents of Eky who are effected by the elk have? You like to use the western ky deer herd/farming argument alot and there is NO comparison. As of right now all we have is a 1-800 number to call. But, Im waiting for your answer to the question above??

Your answer is very simple. The only complaint I hear about what Elk are destroying is gardens. Put a cheap elctric fence around your garden, tie a dog up around your garden.

Here is the biggest thing you left out, what does this bill do to alleviate elk destruction? Nothing, the same number of tags are being issues, just more to folks of EKy. You act like this bill will help remedy that. Do folks in WKy get 2 buck tags because they are the ones suffering crop damage? Of course they don't, and have never asked for it.

Also, farmers in WKy can kill every doe they see, they still lose thousands and thousands in crop damage from deer. The dollars lost from elk isn't a percentage of what farmers in WKy lose from deer.

You also have misunderstood zone one doe limits. You suggest you can kill one a day, you can kill as many as you want a day.

[headoftheholler]

Here is the biggest thing you left out, what does this bill do to alleviate elk destruction? Nothing, the same number of tags are being issues, just more to folks of EKy. You act like this bill will help remedy that. Do folks in WKy get 2 buck tags because they are the ones suffering crop damage? Of course they don't, and have never asked for it.
Good point, it's not like the elk people from east ky harvest destroy more gardens than the elk the west ky hunters harvest.

[hollow_rat]

in looking at 2007 and 2006 result 24 tags wasnt filled in 07 and 21 in 06.dont know why they wasnt but if that many tags went to local people they might have and that would have been that many less elk.if these went to the western hunters they are not doing their job for some reason and this might be why they have so many deer problem not getting it done.if you have a problem of any kind whether it deer,elk dogs cats skunks if you dont do something about quit bitching and do something about it.if a farmer has a deer problem open your land and say have fun guy just take care of my stock and crops.i am sure most of us on here is good enough hunter we would resect your land and you.the only thing i have about the elk tags i think it should be first draw first serve.
happy hunting evryone

[barney]

The elk in EKY, are just not fair,to the people in the restoration zone.....no matter how you look at it. Throwing the burden, of these beasts, on one region of this state, to put up with, and to deal with, without compensation in some form, is unreal, this day and time.
And that to me, is nothing more than communism or discrimination..........but you say its fair and equal, because, EKYian's can put their name in the draw, just like everyone else, and besides....they owe us, for tax dollars, that they recieve, and should just put up with the elk,damage and associated headaches.... and just keep their mouth shut!..... yea right:rolleyes:..............I kind of put it in the class of deeds, similar to the Tuskegee project..........an experiment, in human suffering,..."just to see what happens".......but in this case, more than likely for the money and self-esteem, of a few!

I think the corn farmers should give the deer hunters, free corn, for their feeders too, after all they are getting corn subsidies, from the tax payers? And the hunters are helping thin the deer herd to protect their crops, from the damage? So they owe us part of their crop?....right?...... Is that not the same as saying, EKYian's, owe the rest of the state, and should keep growing these elk for free.......without some form of compensation?

I would wager a bet.....that if most of you supporters, had a herd of elk in your yard all winter, eatin your shrubs and puttin divits in your bluegrass sod........you would be cryin like babys. Or if a herd was crossing the road in front of your subdivision, on a regular basis.....something WOULD be done!:cool:

[slickhead slayer]

The elk in EKY, are just not fair,to the people in the restoration zone.....no matter how you look at it. Throwing the burden, of these beasts, on one region of this state, to put up with, and to deal with, without compensation in some form, is unreal, this day and time.
And that to me, is nothing more than communism or discrimination..........

So the state of Ky tells me that my tax dollars are going to EKY, and thats OK. But if they don't get elk tags, thats discrimination and communism.:rolleyes: Ok, that makes sense.

You complaing about "throwing the burden" on EKy with elk, but what about the burden Ky cities have in paying for rural towns services? Is that not a burden?
You seem to overlook one persons burden when it benefits you, but complain like heck when it goes the other way.

[slickhead slayer]

I would wager a bet.....that if most of you supporters, had a herd of elk in your yard all winter, eatin your shrubs and puttin divits in your bluegrass sod........you would be cryin like babys. Or if a herd was crossing the road in front of your subdivision, on a regular basis.....something WOULD be done!:cool:

My neighbors have see through netting on all their shrubs and bushes, I spray deer away once a week. I still lose every single hosta every year, have shrubs that get munched on, even deer on the front porch eating out of flower pots. I have deer poop on my sidewalk, and/or porch every single morning, where they stand and munch away. Watched two bucks at 2 in the morning last fall, scrapping in my front yard. it was fun to watch until the next morning I saw what they did to my yard.
I have never cried about it, or expected something because of it. Some of us have dealt with what your dealing with for years. And remember, many of our counties have LOTS more deer than ALL of 16 countys have in elk.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

Slickhead, Im just a little curious as to how you reach the keyboard setting up on such a high throne??

I've read your posts in different threads such as this for some time now, they always anger me because above all else your arrogance pollutes any message that you try to convey. Its obvious how you feel about eastern Kentucky and the people that call it home. The pride that you extract from being a resident in one of Kentucky's larger, more economically stable cities is amazing and pitiful at the same time. I apologize that myself, and the other members on this forum who call eastern Kentucky home, steal your tax dollars. Its obvious thats the root of your prejudice, and as you see fit we should forever be indebted to you and the rest of the state. Just keep in mind that all of Kentucky's geographic regions are very different from one another. Each region contributes certain resources and characteristics that make Kentucky what it is. Im well aware of the ills that plague my home region, however, Im also aware of the contributions that my region makes to the rest of the state, and that includes to you. You never get your point across when you talk down to people slick, no matter how correct it may be.

[quackrstackr]

Guys,

Knock off the petty East vs West bickering.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

Thats what is at the root of all these elk argument threads. I say we just ban the discussion of Kentucky's elk heard:D

[Rob]

I have lived in west Ky most of my life but lived in Combs, just outside of Hazard, for a little while several years ago. What I have observed is that the problems we have in rural Ky are much more alike than they are different, no matter if you live in the east or west. We all have more than enough poverty, drug & alchohol abuse, etc.

I have never seen a wild elk in Ky but I can imagine that, for some, they are a big burden. I just don't see how giving preferential treatment to someone else helps the folks burdened by the elk. Now, if a person had their crop destroyed by an elk, I wouldn't have a problem with giving that person an elk tag to use themselves or sell. At least that way, the person bearing the burden gets some relief. There may be problems with this that I hadn't thought of. I am certainly no expert in this field. Heck, I'm really not an expert in any field, for that matter. ;)

[quackrstackr]

Boys, I asked for you to knock off the east vs west vs metropolitan areas stuff once.

I will not ask again.

[slickhead slayer]

Sorry Qckr, its kinda tough to be called out, and not defend ones self. I will try again, and make my point without any of the things you mention.

I agree that every area has its resources, thats my point. Yet no other area ask for preferential treatment. Why should this be any different?

And you couldn't be more wrong on how I feel about the people of EKY. I have nothing but respect, have known many of them for many years, even several from your town of Middlseboro.;) I just simply disagree with the bill. Nothing more.

[turkeytalker]

I'd say that if this bill doesn't pass that those effected by the Elk should continue to fight.It is communism at its greatest "common good",just like other things mentioned earlier.

I have family members in the area and understand where they are coming from,not long ago i raised hell over otters and well they have depleted or greatly reduced smallmouth bass populations,don't ask a biologist ask a fisherman.

If this bill fails could anyone agree that KDFWR should get out of the playing God business? CWD???

[AteUp]

Could someone please post up some clarification on how WKY has had preferential treatment over EKY from the KDFWR?

[mudhole crossing]

Could someone please post up some clarification on how WKY has had preferential treatment over EKY from the KDFWR?
thats very simple. we got the elk, they didnt! end of story!

[ptbrauch]

Here's something to make the whole East Ky rapper vs West Ky rapper feud clear as mud: Outdoor Life just ranked the top 200 cities for outdoorsmen. Corbin, Ky came in tied for 108th. Paducah came in tied for 110th place. So there you have it, EKY is better than WKY.

And by the way, where is NKY in all this argument? I'm kind of feeling left out. Is KDFWR screwing us or helping us?

[trust me]

And by the way, where is NKY in all this argument? I'm kind of feeling left out. Is KDFWR screwing us or helping us?

Oops, you didn't get the memo? You're not in this fight because we gave you to Indiana last year. You're all Hoosiers now!:D

[KYBOY]

Oops, you didn't get the memo? You're not in this fight because we gave you to Indiana last year. You're all Hoosiers now!:D
LMAO........Ive been waiting on that for years..They all had Indiana drivers licenses anyway:D

[ptbrauch]

You're all Hoosiers now!:D

Dems fightin' words, you know!

[mudhole crossing]

Oops, you didn't get the memo? You're not in this fight because we gave you to Indiana last year. You're all Hoosiers now!:D
thats a good one! reminding everyone, just having fun!:)

[UKDucks]

I'm all for this bill....

As long as it is amended to designate 16 counties in WKY the "duck zone" and all residents in those counties get prefertial treatment on the Ballard, Barkley, and Henderson blind drawings. That's fair, right? ;)

[hollow_rat]

if they would make all of Kentucky the elk zone we would not have this problem.they say the rest of the state isnt suitable for elk .they have elk on farms and such in the western states why not here.:)also they visit the cities when they come down for the winter and the people deal with it since the rest of the state shares their taxes,deer and etc. why do we have to hog them and not have the rest of the state have the fun of dodging them on the roads.running them off our yards and out of our gardens:D

[redneck1377]

I'm all for this bill....

As long as it is amended to designate 16 counties in WKY the "duck zone" and all residents in those counties get prefertial treatment on the Ballard, Barkley, and Henderson blind drawings. That's fair, right? ;)


it will be fair for the western ky counties but not for the other 88 counties

[AteUp]

LOL, there's 7,300 elk spread out over 16 counties, and I keep hearing people complain about having to dodge them in the road. How many "near misses" could a person have in a week?

[mudhole crossing]

LOL, there's 7,300 elk spread out over 16 counties, and I keep hearing people complain about having to dodge them in the road. How many "near misses" could a person have in a week?
ive just about decided to purchase me an ole pick-up to drive to work. mount me a homemade crash resistant bumper on the front and hammer down. could call it 'BULL BOWLING'! lmao:D only problem would be getting them to line up in the correct formation! lol

[hollow_rat]

LOL, there's 7,300 elk spread out over 16 counties, and I keep hearing people complain about having to dodge them in the road. How many "near misses" could a person have in a week?
drive 899 in knott co be able to cpount a lot or can use finger and toes:D

[KYBOY]

Im not complaining about it but in all seriousness you would be supprised how many you can see on the roads in the right places. I remember long stretches of time where I would see Elk 5 days out of 7 along the road.

[bcdh1]

I would say that I oppose this bill. I would feel a lot better if they made them non-transferrable. If they are non-transferrable i would feel a lot better. They may be this way, but nothing says it in the article. I think you would have a lot of non-hunters apply for these tags and then sell them for thousands of dollars to out of staters.

[trust me]

LOL, there's 7,300 elk spread out over 16 counties, and I keep hearing people complain about having to dodge them in the road. How many "near misses" could a person have in a week?

That's just it...they're not spread out at all. They're concentrated in a few areas and some of them happen to be right in the middle of human populations. My part of the county has no elk, but a few miles down the road, they're pretty thick. Knott Co. has a bunch and seems to have the most elk/human problems.

[ptbrauch]

All in all, I'm strongly opposed to this bill because I think it sets a bad precedent. As many people have said on here already, it opens the door for other or all quota hunts to have preferential treatment given to local residents. How would you feel if you missed out on hunting deer on your favorite WMA because you weren't from that county?

But I can also see a benefit that could come out of this. Really all the info I have about the situation with the elk comes off this forum. If the feelings expressed here match the general consensus of those living in the zone, then some good will could be generated by doing this. Also, if there was going to be a lottery and you knew your odds were going to go from 1 of 60,000 to 1 of 500, wouldn't you be more inclined to buy a ticket? So if in the past only 500 residents of a county in the zone got in the drawing, but you could now double or triple the participation in that county because of the increased chances, wouldn't it almost make sense?

[mudhole crossing]

the only people that the dept should give any preferance to, imo, is the landowners who have direct damage from elk. and believe me, the dept knows who these people are. the catch to this is, most elk damage is done in late winter-after the elk hunts.

[redneck1377]

I understand that the elk are in 16 counties, how many stray from these counties, how soon will they spread to all counties in daniel boone forest and to WV or Virginia

[MikeKy]

They won't last long if they wander into Va. I think Va. said elk are not native to Va. and can be shot. Not sure if it has to be in deer season or not.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

LOL, there's 7,300 elk spread out over 16 counties, and I keep hearing people complain about having to dodge them in the road. How many "near misses" could a person have in a week?

Ate-up I understand where your coming from with your reasoning. The factor that skews the numbers is the location of the roads. Like it has been mentioned before, during the winter and late winter months when all the browse dies off on the mountain tops the elk heards come down into the valley's, unfortunatly this is where elk and road meet. Its not near as much of a problem when browse is available up high.

[turkeytalker]

Ate-up I understand where your coming from with your reasoning. The factor that skews the numbers is the location of the roads. Like it has been mentioned before, during the winter and late winter months when all the browse dies off on the mountain tops the elk heards come down into the valley's, unfortunatly this is where elk and road meet. Its not near as much of a problem when browse is available up high.


Very good post.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

I agree that every area has its resources, thats my point. Yet no other area ask for preferential treatment. Why should this be any different?


IMO, because were the only area who experience the elk heards!

I've heard a couplpe people mention the don't support this bill because of the precedents it could establish. I understand that concern, and to demonstrate this people have said things such as "we'll give duck hunting priorities to the people of western kentucky" and "well give people from central kentucky prefernce to this wma for deer season."

Here's the flaw in those arguments. Western ky first,- believe it or not I kill a decent amount of ducks every season in south eastern kentucky. The hunting is hard and its not NEAR as good as it is in western kentucky, but its good enough to where if I do my homework I can shoot some birds. To you wma 'deer' preference folks- of course I kill deer every year in various areas of eastern kentucky

the point to be drawn from this is: All kentuckians experience deer and waterfowl, their statewide. Elk are confined to only 16 counties. Only the residents of these 16 Kentucky countys have to deal the inevitible problems that come along with heards of elk. Thats the whole reason many of us eastern kentuckians believe we should be rewarded with a little bit of preference. Not asking for much, just 5 (1,2,3,4,5,) permits to be assigned to eack elk county.

[barney]

IMO, because were the only area who experience the elk heards!

I've heard a couplpe people mention the don't support this bill because of the precedents it could establish. I understand that concern, and to demonstrate this people have said things such as "we'll give duck hunting priorities to the people of western kentucky" and "well give people from central kentucky prefernce to this wma for deer season."

Here's the flaw in those arguments. Western ky first,- believe it or not I kill a decent amount of ducks every season in south eastern kentucky. The hunting is hard and its not NEAR as good as it is in western kentucky, but its good enough to where if I do my homework I can shoot some birds. To you wma 'deer' preference folks- of course I kill deer every year in various areas of eastern kentucky

the point to be drawn from this is: All kentuckians experience deer and waterfowl, their statewide. Elk are confined to only 16 counties. Only the residents of these 16 Kentucky countys have to deal the inevitible problems that come along with heards of elk. Thats the whole reason many of us eastern kentuckians believe we should be rewarded with a little bit of preference. Not asking for much, just 5 (1,2,3,4,5,) permits to be assigned to eack elk county.
OR.......I would asume, that the countys that have elk, would gladly give all of them to any other countys in the state? Because, the residents of the current restoration zones chance of being drawn in the lottery, would remain the same.

[slickhead slayer]

I understand that the elk are in 16 counties, how many stray from these counties, how soon will they spread to all counties in daniel boone forest and to WV or Virginia

They won't spread at all, if any of those elk go outside the 16 county zone, they are free game. An elk outside the restoration zone is going to be shot.

[slickhead slayer]

IMO, because were the only area who experience the elk heards!

I've heard a couplpe people mention the don't support this bill because of the precedents it could establish. I understand that concern, and to demonstrate this people have said things such as "we'll give duck hunting priorities to the people of western kentucky" and "well give people from central kentucky prefernce to this wma for deer season."

Here's the flaw in those arguments. Western ky first,- believe it or not I kill a decent amount of ducks every season in south eastern kentucky. The hunting is hard and its not NEAR as good as it is in western kentucky, but its good enough to where if I do my homework I can shoot some birds. To you wma 'deer' preference folks- of course I kill deer every year in various areas of eastern kentucky

the point to be drawn from this is: All kentuckians experience deer and waterfowl, their statewide. Elk are confined to only 16 counties. Only the residents of these 16 Kentucky countys have to deal the inevitible problems that come along with heards of elk. Thats the whole reason many of us eastern kentuckians believe we should be rewarded with a little bit of preference. Not asking for much, just 5 (1,2,3,4,5,) permits to be assigned to eack elk county.

Your missing the point. Of course there are ducks in all parts of the state. But there isn't thousands of acres of public duck hunting land,with dozens and dozens of public duck blinds. Never has any of the far western Ky counties been given preference for those duck blind draws. People from all over Ky have used those blinds for years, with no preferences. And its a draw, just like the elk draw.
and yes, all parts of the state have deer, but nobody has suffered the crop damage that WKy and NCentral Ky have.
Not sure how you can justify this by saying that EKY suffers damage from these animals, yet other parts of the state have been dealing with damage from deer for years. EKy has never had enough deer to do damage, now they are dealing with what the rest of us have been dealing with for years. And, EKY only has about 450 Elk per county, there are SINGLE farms in parts of Ky that have that many deer.

I symapthize with the people of EKy, I just think they are dealing with something the rest of us have had to deal with for years.

[ptbrauch]

IMO, because were the only area who experience the elk heards!

I've heard a couplpe people mention the don't support this bill because of the precedents it could establish. I understand that concern, and to demonstrate this people have said things such as "we'll give duck hunting priorities to the people of western kentucky" and "well give people from central kentucky prefernce to this wma for deer season."

Here's the flaw in those arguments. Western ky first,- believe it or not I kill a decent amount of ducks every season in south eastern kentucky. The hunting is hard and its not NEAR as good as it is in western kentucky, but its good enough to where if I do my homework I can shoot some birds. To you wma 'deer' preference folks- of course I kill deer every year in various areas of eastern kentucky

the point to be drawn from this is: All kentuckians experience deer and waterfowl, their statewide. Elk are confined to only 16 counties. Only the residents of these 16 Kentucky countys have to deal the inevitible problems that come along with heards of elk. Thats the whole reason many of us eastern kentuckians believe we should be rewarded with a little bit of preference. Not asking for much, just 5 (1,2,3,4,5,) permits to be assigned to eack elk county.

And the flaw in this argument is that the elk can and do get outside the 16 county zone. Last I checked, they were not planning on building any fences to ensure the elk stay inside the elk zone. So what is the plan to appease these people whos lives are affected by these elk as well?

And it does set a bad precedent that could be extended to nearly everything governed by KDFWR. What would stop residents of Ky Lake counties from seeking more liberal regs for crappie that only applies to them? Where would it end?

[barney]

Your missing the point. Of course there are ducks in all parts of the state. But there isn't thousands of acres of public duck hunting land,with dozens and dozens of public duck blinds. Never has any of the far western Ky counties been given preference for those duck blind draws. People from all over Ky have used those blinds for years, with no preferences. And its a draw, just like the elk draw.
and yes, all parts of the state have deer, but nobody has suffered the crop damage that WKy and NCentral Ky have.
Not sure how you can justify this by saying that EKY suffers damage from these animals, yet other parts of the state have been dealing with damage from deer for years. EKy has never had enough deer to do damage, now they are dealing with what the rest of us have been dealing with for years. And, EKY only has about 450 Elk per county, there are SINGLE farms in parts of Ky that have that many deer.

I symapthize with the people of EKy, I just think they are dealing with something the rest of us have had to deal with for years.
Elk are not deer......big difference, different size, nature and habits........and EKY are the only ones that have them!

[barney]

And the flaw in this argument is that the elk can and do get outside the 16 county zone. Last I checked, they were not planning on building any fences to ensure the elk stay inside the elk zone. So what is the plan to appease these people whos lives are affected by these elk as well?

And it does set a bad precedent that could be extended to nearly everything governed by KDFWR. What would stop residents of Ky Lake counties from seeking more liberal regs for crappie that only applies to them? Where would it end?
I see your point.....thats not the issue! Crappie, don't cause wrecks, eat gardens, or turn head stones over! And every single impoundment, in the state has crappie.

[quackrstackr]

I guess the guy that lives outside of the zone but owns land inside the zone (that the elk evidently don't tread upon) are just hosed. :D

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

And the flaw in this argument is that the elk can and do get outside the 16 county zone. Last I checked, they were not planning on building any fences to ensure the elk stay inside the elk zone. So what is the plan to appease these people whos lives are affected by these elk as well?

Are you not aware of the fact that as soon as an elk ventures outside of the 16 county zone it is fair game? Nice point :cool:

[twostates]

Don't post much but old "Slickhead" go under my skin this time. He said that Eastern Kentucky had been sucking his tax dollars for years and years. Except for the four years that I was in the military I have lived in Eastern Kentucky my entire life. Since 1962 I have filed my Kentucky taxes and not once have I seen a form that said "Eastern Kentucky residents only". Although I have no kids in school I pay school tax on my utility bills, property tax bills and General Tax Bills. So maybe "Slickhead" since you are funding the schools here in Bell County than I must be educating the kids in Jefferson County. If you had checked you would have seen that the first good road into Eastern Kentucky was a toll road that the state sold bonds on and was paid by the users. The same for Western Kentucky. They paid for their roads. As for the water and sewer projects that you speak of that money comes form ARC grants and not from the state. We pay for our police,firemen, and garbage services, thru occupational taxes and property taxes that also pay for health and library. Now for your information coal severance money has been used for beautification of your downtown areas,airports,horse park,money for Toyota and the list goes on and on. My point, we are all Kentuckians and if the truth be know I would be willing to bet that I have paid more taxes than you have. As for the bill I am opposed to it. I think I have a right to go to Western Kentucky and kill a duck if I so desire and I think they have a right to come to Eastern Kentucky and kill an elk if they get drawn and I would help them in any way I could (even you "Slickhead") Now if you want the coal operator to pay more or the farmer to pay more than be prepared to pay your electric bill and purchase your next box of corn flakes. Any for the record the smallest coal operator and the smallest farmer paid more taxes last year than all the Airlines combined.

[maxcam]

This is getting way out of hand.......First it was divide the sportmens groups to push forth an agenda now they are succeeding to plot one fellow Kentuckian against another......Very sad.....

[barney]

This is getting way out of hand.......First it was divide the sportmens groups to push forth an agenda now they are succeeding to plot one fellow Kentuckian against another......Very sad.....
It was slick's fault:D

[mudhole crossing]

elk will do alot more damage than a deer. a mature elk is equal to 5 deer. when elk eat up all the forage, that puts them and other game animals searching for food.

[slickhead slayer]

Don't post much but old "Slickhead" go under my skin this time. He said that Eastern Kentucky had been sucking his tax dollars for years and years. Except for the four years that I was in the military I have lived in Eastern Kentucky my entire life. Since 1962 I have filed my Kentucky taxes and not once have I seen a form that said "Eastern Kentucky residents only". Although I have no kids in school I pay school tax on my utility bills, property tax bills and General Tax Bills. So maybe "Slickhead" since you are funding the schools here in Bell County than I must be educating the kids in Jefferson County. If you had checked you would have seen that the first good road into Eastern Kentucky was a toll road that the state sold bonds on and was paid by the users. The same for Western Kentucky. They paid for their roads. As for the water and sewer projects that you speak of that money comes form ARC grants and not from the state. We pay for our police,firemen, and garbage services, thru occupational taxes and property taxes that also pay for health and library. Now for your information coal severance money has been used for beautification of your downtown areas,airports,horse park,money for Toyota and the list goes on and on. My point, we are all Kentuckians and if the truth be know I would be willing to bet that I have paid more taxes than you have. As for the bill I am opposed to it. I think I have a right to go to Western Kentucky and kill a duck if I so desire and I think they have a right to come to Eastern Kentucky and kill an elk if they get drawn and I would help them in any way I could (even you "Slickhead") Now if you want the coal operator to pay more or the farmer to pay more than be prepared to pay your electric bill and purchase your next box of corn flakes. Any for the record the smallest coal operator and the smallest farmer paid more taxes last year than all the Airlines combined.

two states
I am not going to rehash everything, we were asked to stay focused on the elk. I will say this, go to the states website and look at tax allocation charts. You don'y pay for all your services as you suggest. The rural towns of EKY, their services cost more than they put in. Look at the percentages on the charts. Lou, Lex, etc, gets back about 40% of the tax revenue they put in. Rural towns get over 100%,some 200-300%. So if your towns services cost 5 mill, but only pay in 3 mill, then somebody else outside that town is paying your bills. Its all fact.
And for some reason i am the big bad wolf by posting facts. It says nothing bad about EKY, just the facts.

[slickhead slayer]

Elk are not deer......big difference, different size, nature and habits........and EKY are the only ones that have them!

Why does it matter what animal we are talking about? Both do damage. If you want these special guidelines because of the damage elk do, why don't those who have damages from deer get those same priveleges? Especially when you look at these actual "damages". Whats the dollar value of "damages" that elk do? Whats the dollar value of deer damage in a 16 county area? my guess is 100's and 100's times more damage.

[Multidigits]

This is getting way out of hand.......First it was divide the sportmens groups to push forth an agenda now they are succeeding to plot one fellow Kentuckian against another......Very sad.....

The problem is that there wasn't any oppisition from E. Ky when the elk restoration idea was hatch nor before the hunt started. This is about greed, nothing else. The elk belong to all Ky. residents, so no one needs to be given preference in a tag allotment.

[barney]

The problem is that there wasn't any oppisition from E. Ky when the elk restoration idea was hatch nor before the hunt started. This is about greed, nothing else. The elk belong to all Ky. residents, so no one needs to be given preference in a tag allotment.
I never even heard about it, till I saw Tim Farmer, standing at the back of a gooseneck trailor, filming the first release?

[BuckUp]

I never even heard about it, till I saw Tim Farmer, standing at the back of a gooseneck trailor, filming the first release?

I wonder why barney? ;)

[barney]

Why does it matter what animal we are talking about? Both do damage. If you want these special guidelines because of the damage elk do, why don't those who have damages from deer get those same priveleges? Especially when you look at these actual "damages". Whats the dollar value of "damages" that elk do? Whats the dollar value of deer damage in a 16 county area? my guess is 100's and 100's times more damage.
I, as a farmer/landowner, can take care of my deer "problems", by anyway I deem, necessary. Farmers/landowners, in the zone, don't have that opption.....yet, with the elk!:confused:

[barney]

I wonder why barney? ;)
Might have something to do, with the communisim.......I spoke of, early on in this thread?:eek:

[Multidigits]

Might have something to do, with the communisim.......I spoke of, early on in this thread?:eek:


Might have something to do with you not paying attention. It was and still is the most highly publicized and most well known resoration project since the wild turkey restoration. UK did the study for the project. There was never a secret on the releases or the size of the intended elk herd, yet you claim you didn't know it was coming. Amazing?

[mudhole crossing]

Might have something to do with you not paying attention. It was and still is the most highly publicized and most well known resoration project since the wild turkey restoration. UK did the study for the project. There was never a secret on the releases or the size of the intended elk herd, yet you claim you didn't know it was coming. Amazing?
what they didnt inform nobody about was the headache they were going to be. im sure they didnt know either, but they sure as heck know now.

[Multidigits]

what they didnt inform nobody about was the headache they were going to be. im sure they didnt know either, but they sure as heck know now.


Take 5 asprin and see the doctor in the morn.....;)

[barney]

Might have something to do with you not paying attention. It was and still is the most highly publicized and most well known resoration project since the wild turkey restoration. UK did the study for the project. There was never a secret on the releases or the size of the intended elk herd, yet you claim you didn't know it was coming. Amazing?
Something as "amazing" and "historic" as "Elk Restoration in Ky." Should have been voted on, by the citizens of the commonwealth, and atleast, some workshops, to here the concerns the public may have, along with some long term feasibility studies. How long did this project take, from conception, to reality?........Maybe a poll, to see how many sportsmen on this site, knew of the project.....before the elk actually set foot on Ky. soils?

[mudhole crossing]

Take 5 asprin and see the doctor in the morn.....;)
lol! i did, but the elk still wont leave. im going horn hunting this weekend with a rope in tow. see if i can pull some of them horns off, lol:D

[mudhole crossing]

Something as "amazing" and "historic" as "Elk Restoration in Ky." Should have been voted on, by the citizens of the commonwealth, and atleast, some workshops, to here the concerns the public may have, along with some long term feasibility studies. How long did this project take, from conception, to reality?........Maybe a poll, to see how many sportsmen on this site, knew of the project.....before the elk actually set foot on Ky. soils?
i had no idea my community was receiving elk to the day i saw 2 dept vehicles pulling 2 double decker trailers. jumped in my truck and followed them. watched em turn 150 head loose.

[Multidigits]

Something as "amazing" and "historic" as "Elk Restoration in Ky." Should have been voted on, by the citizens of the commonwealth, and atleast, some workshops, to here the concerns the public may have, along with some long term feasibility studies. How long did this project take, from conception, to reality?........Maybe a poll, to see how many sportsmen on this site, knew of the project.....before the elk actually set foot on Ky. soils?

Let's put E. Ky hunters coming to the west to hunt deer, quail and turkeys or to fish to a vote. Take all the polls you want. What you have here is about 5 or 6 guys stirring up crap on a hunting site and getting almost zero sympathy in return. You have elk problems, call the Dept. and work it out, pretty simple.

[mudhole crossing]

Let's put E. Ky hunters coming to the west to hunt deer, quail and turkeys or to fish to a vote. Take all the polls you want. What you have here is about 5 or 6 guys stirring up crap on a hunting site and getting almost zero sympathy in return. You have elk problems, call the Dept. and work it out, pretty simple.
ur def right! i myself have hunted out there. BUT, for a fee! nothing wrong with that, but ALOT of elk hunters are getting free rides out here to boot. is that fair?

[Multidigits]

ur def right! i myself have hunted out there. BUT, for a fee! nothing wrong with that, but ALOT of elk hunters are getting free rides out here to boot. is that fair?


That's what your asking for :rolleyes:

[barney]

Let's put E. Ky hunters coming to the west to hunt deer, quail and turkeys or to fish to a vote. Take all the polls you want. What you have here is about 5 or 6 guys stirring up crap on a hunting site and getting almost zero sympathy in return. You have elk problems, call the Dept. and work it out, pretty simple.
Thats the way I see it too........5 or 6 guys, helping 5 or 6 guys, lay the cards on the table, and bring the issues to the light of day!........But Multi, your wrong, on the sympathy thingy, with your help.......this winters little debates, on the elk, have actually made progress......to "right" some of the Wrongs! Its "amazing" to me, that you have said this?......Have you noticed the title, of this thread? Do you not call that progress?
And Multi, THANKS!, We couldn't have done it without your help!LOL:D

[mudhole crossing]

That's what your asking for :rolleyes:
i was just hitting on ur reply about east hunting west for years. i just dont see where we owe everbody a big favor. if i misunderstood what u were saying, my bad.

[Multidigits]

Thats the way I see it too........5 or 6 guys, helping 5 or 6 guys, lay the cards on the table, and bring the issues to the light of day!........But Multi, your wrong, on the sympathy thingy, with your help.......this winters little debates, on the elk, have actually made progress......to "right" some of the Wrongs! Its "amazing" to me, that you have said this?......Have you noticed the title, of this thread? Do you not call that progress?
And Multi, THANKS!, We couldn't have done it without your help!LOL:D

Wanna bet the bill makes it to law???

[mudhole crossing]

Wanna bet the bill makes it to law???
i would say if anyone would know the answerto that question, it would be u!;)

[barney]

Let's put E. Ky hunters coming to the west to hunt deer, quail and turkeys or to fish to a vote. Take all the polls you want. What you have here is about 5 or 6 guys stirring up crap on a hunting site and getting almost zero sympathy in return. You have elk problems, call the Dept. and work it out, pretty simple.
It also "amazes" me just how many predjudiced people are around? I had no clue, the people east of I 75, were viewed as free loading scum, looking for a hand out, and a free ride, by "some"....................

If these elk were in the western most tip, of the state causing problems, I would be just as sympathetic, to those people! I don't like to see anyone ran over....

My dad always put up with a lot, but he has a saying, I have heard him say several times as he turns the other cheek........"them ole hell fires are sure gonna be hot";)

[barney]

Wanna bet the bill makes it to law???
It may or may not this time........but what do ya wanna bet, sooner or later, one don't.....its only the begining.;) And thanks again Multi, we couldn't have done it without ....YOU!:D

[barney]

i would say if anyone would know the answerto that question, it would be u!;)
Just what are you tryin to say, mudhole?:D

[Big Nasty]

There are 120 counties in the state. With this bill each elk restoration county would get 2.25% of the total number of tags, all 16 counties getting 20% of the 400 tags given this year. The remaining 104 counties a .325% average (I realize a fudge factor with number of applicants varying per county.) Seems unfair that hunters in non-restoration counties and especially the heavily populated counties would have a dimished chance at a tag due to this. The restoration effort was ultimately financed by all of us, and imagine the 104 non-restoration counties contribution was much higher than 80%. I got a tag 2 years ago and pumped a lot of cash into southeast Kentucky with hotel, food, gas, etc. so I would be opposed this bill. May have a different perspective if I lived down there, who knows. Majority rules.

[Multidigits]

It also "amazes" me just how many predjudiced people are around? I had no clue, the people east of I 75, were viewed as free loading scum, looking for a hand out, and a free ride, by "some"....................

If these elk were in the western most tip, of the state causing problems, I would be just as sympathetic, to those people! I don't like to see anyone ran over....

My dad always put up with a lot, but he has a saying, I have heard him say several times as he turns the other cheek........"them ole hell fires are sure gonna be hot";)

ALL of the opinion I have about E. Ky peoplecomefrom the E.Ky. people I know. For exmple, just read this forum and what E. Ky people post about condoning poaching and general lawlessness concerning hunting issues. Second, one gent from this forum who is in Bamhing, has told me and other that nearly 50% of the residents in his county are on public assistance. Staggering numbers. You want to do something about your image, start at home not West of I-75

[mudhole crossing]

will it cost an eastern boy like me more to participate in one of your hunts? if so, dont know if my ssi check will cover it or not!:p

[barney]

ALL of the opinion I have about E. Ky peoplecomefrom the E.Ky. people I know. For exmple, just read this forum and what E. Ky people post about condoning poaching and general lawlessness concerning hunting issues. Second, one gent from this forum who is in Bamhing, has told me and other that nearly 50% of the residents in his county are on public assistance. Staggering numbers. You want to do something about your image, start at home not West of I-75
I feel exactly the same way! I'll give you a few pointers.

1. Get down on your knees, ask God to forgive you, of your sins, and clear your mind of evil thoughts.:D
2.Buy a Bible, read it often!:)
3. Join church.......don't matter which one, they all teach, basicly the same message.:)
4.Pray that everyone you have hurt, forgives you!:rolleyes:
5.Then, after you get through the 4 above, and become faithfull, maybe God will bless you, with a double decker load of elk, released in your backyard! But that will probably, come as a suprize!....The way it did in EKY?
Good luck Multi, its gonna be a long row to hoe, but I have faith in you!;)

[barney]

i had no idea my community was receiving elk to the day i saw 2 dept vehicles pulling 2 double decker trailers. jumped in my truck and followed them. watched em turn 150 head loose.
That right there is "amazing", how does something like that happen, this day and time?...........Maybe the dept. is droppin rattlesnakes, with little parachutes, from black helicopters?:eek:

[slickhead slayer]

I, as a farmer/landowner, can take care of my deer "problems", by anyway I deem, necessary. Farmers/landowners, in the zone, don't have that opption.....yet, with the elk!:confused:

ask around, there are farmers that shoot does by the truckload. As many as you shoot, that many more come right back in. You can try and keep deer from eating your 100 acre bean field, but your just peeing in the wind. If you have crops, they are gonna eat them.

[barney]

ask around, there are farmers that shoot does by the truckload. As many as you shoot, that many more come right back in. You can try and keep deer from eating your 100 acre bean field, but your just peeing in the wind. If you have crops, they are gonna eat them.
Thats true...but at least I have that option to use, at my discretion, and I feel that is fair.

[slickhead slayer]

It also "amazes" me just how many predjudiced people are around? I had no clue, the people east of I 75, were viewed as free loading scum, looking for a hand out, and a free ride, by "some"....................



Nobody said that. We are just pointing out that we all have resources, and we all share them. We don't have a problem sharing resources, until one part of the state starts wanting a larger share of their resource. Our point was that the rest of the state has had wildlife for years, when EKy didn't, and we all shared it equally. Now years later, EKY finally has some unique wildlife to share, and they want some unprecedented access to this wildlife. That seems unfair to us.

[barney]

Nobody said that. We are just pointing out that we all have resources, and we all share them. We don't have a problem sharing resources, until one part of the state starts wanting a larger share of their resource. Our point was that the rest of the state has had wildlife for years, when EKy didn't, and we all shared it equally. Now years later, EKY finally has some unique wildlife to share, and they want some unprecedented access to this wildlife. That seems unfair to us.I can understand what your saying, if the elk were statewide, and one part of the state wanted more liberal, seasons or wanted to keep certain, people from their region, that would be unfair to me.

From what I'm hearing, the people of EKY, had no choice in the reintroduction project......they were "strong armed" into this thing. They put up with the damage and destruction, caused by someones "pet" project,"solely", but they have no more rights, than anyone else. That not only seems unfair to me but unjust?

From what I'm hearing EKY, would love to share their new found wealth, with the rest of the state. Why isn't this in the plans? Maybe someone could answer that question? If there is habitat, for thousands and thousands of deer, one knows there is room for a few hundred elk, released in a few locations? When the elk re-introductions begin in other parts of the state.......then it will be fair!

[lonesomepine]

So the state of Ky tells me that my tax dollars are going to EKY, and thats OK. But if they don't get elk tags, thats discrimination and communism.:rolleyes: Ok, that makes sense.

You complaing about "throwing the burden" on EKy with elk, but what about the burden Ky cities have in paying for rural towns services? Is that not a burden?
You seem to overlook one persons burden when it benefits you, but complain like heck when it goes the other way.

And none of "Our" tax dollars go to rural western Ky counties/areas?

hmm,didn't realize western Ky was suddenly so cosmopolitan.

Sounds like somebody has an unjustifiable prejudice to me?

[lonesomepine]

They won't last long if they wander into Va. I think
Va. said elk are not native to Va. and can be shot. Not sure if it has to be in deer season or not.
Only licensed deer hunters can shoot elk in Virginia,the reason Virginia doesn't want the elk there is because their cattle are TB free and elk are possible carriers

[lonesomepine]

I've got news for all of you,there is major crop damage/property damage by deer even east of I-75,if you don't believe it stop by the house sometime I'll take you on a tour.

On a side note I think this East-West hatred was started by Barack Obama and his church to help destroy the USA.Meanwhile Bill said he wouldn't have sent Hillary to Bosnia if he knew they wouldn't shoot at her.

[EKY.MTN.HUNTER]

Guy’s, this has turned into a very heated debate, it always seems to when elk are involved. I’m going to speak for eastern Kentuckians here- I think most of us (believe it or not) are supportive of having elk in our region. I like the concept and as an outdoorsmen I am always supportive of wildlife. The program can work, and I hope it does, however, it just needs to be tweaked. I think most of us see HB576 as a step in that direction. I understand the opposition's stance in this thread. Just remember, at the end of the day - if you really want Kentucky's elk program to be a success- your gonna have to eventually make some changes that will make eastern Kentuckians (whom house these elk) more supportive of the program. Until this year I have never heard much negativity out of our region about elk. However, elk problems have grown in correlation to heard growth, and don’t expect this phenomenon to stop. One thing’s for certain, opposition is growing daily in E.ky, and if changes aren't made I don't see a future in the program. You guys from outside of the region might not respect my opinion, but I’m telling you all, changes (of some form, maybe not hb576), must occur at some point for elk to have a certain future in Eastern Kentucky. I don't like to complain just out of spite, I support changes to the program because I feel that only through changes will the program be a success 25 years from now.

[Multidigits]

Guy’s, this has turned into a very heated debate, it always seems to when elk are involved. I’m going to speak for eastern Kentuckians here- I think most of us (believe it or not) are supportive of having elk in our region. I like the concept and as an outdoorsmen I am always supportive of wildlife. The program can work, and I hope it does, however, it just needs to be tweaked. I think most of us see HB576 as a step in that direction. I understand the opposition's stance in this thread. Just remember, at the end of the day - if you really want Kentucky's elk program to be a success- your gonna have to eventually make some changes that will make eastern Kentuckians (whom house these elk) more supportive of the program. Until this year I have never heard much negativity out of our region about elk. However, elk problems have grown in correlation to heard growth, and don’t expect this phenomenon to stop. One thing’s for certain, opposition is growing daily in E.ky, and if changes aren't made I don't see a future in the program. You guys from outside of the region might not respect my opinion, but I’m telling you all, changes (of some form, maybe not hb576), must occur at some point for elk to have a certain future in Eastern Kentucky. I don't like to complain just out of spite, I support changes to the program because I feel that only through changes will the program be a success 25 years from now.


There will be changes along the way.

The topic is IF giving residents of elk counties a preferrence in the draw will make any elk problems go away. We know it won' unless your one of the 5 lucky recievers of these gifts. And then it would only last a short while.

[mudhole crossing]

i dont think giving all the tags to us will shut us up. thats not the point. people dont like dealing with them, period. the elk that were taken to these huge secluded strip mines are doing ok and are no inference (to my knowledge). but, lots of these strips are small and thats where the most problems are. the only way i c to fix these areas is to remove them out of there all together-either by relocation or controlled hunts till they r gone. til this happens, i guess we all will keep on bitching! something will have to change soon, or elk will be the loser in this battle.

[slickhead slayer]

And none of "Our" tax dollars go to rural western Ky counties/areas?

hmm,didn't realize western Ky was suddenly so cosmopolitan.

Sounds like somebody has an unjustifiable prejudice to me?

Go back and read what I wrote, I said rural areas in general. That goes for all rural areas. The only reason EKY is being mentioned, is because thats who wants some guaranteed permits from the draw.. If WKY folks wanted preference from duck blind draws, I would use the same argument for WKY.

[Rob]

Until I read this thread, I never realized how much hard feelings there were against folks down here in western Ky. Most of us are just country folks, just like you find all over the rest of the state. So, if i can get off work, I would like to try to organize a forum deer hunt, say the 2nd or 3rd weekend of gun season, & invite my fellow hunters from eastern Ky down this way for a little fellowship & relaxation. I think you'll find that we are not such bad or greedy fellers as some seem to believe. Any thoughts?

[lonesomepine]

Here's another thought to throw in the fire,KDF&W sells a chance on the Elk lottery at $10 a pop,how many chances are sold and how many actually get drawn these days?Little different than statewide deer tags.


Rob I think you'll find all the animosity has been toward Eastern Kentuckians in this thread,most folks in Eastern Ky would give you the shirt off their back and share their last bit of food with you as long as you are halfway decent to them,unlike some have suggested here.While tax dollars may get spread out statewide unequally as to who paid in more,most people in Eastern Ky wouldn't want anything free,if they could earn it themselves.I get tired of the stereo types put on my people,I've never hunted Western Ky and from some of the attitudes I see here I never will.