Fall Turkey season. [Archive] - Kentucky Hunting Forums

Xtreme

08-13-2002, 07:48 PM

My vote is for this to occur right after the gun deer season. If it's any earlier it will clash with some prime weekend special seasons and for sure the bow season. Not to mention the safety factor of basically stalking non vocal turkeys in near full foilage.

Multidigits

08-13-2002, 08:04 PM

I understand the want it to run for 7 days following the modern gun deer season. I had heard that the commission was going to add another 5 days to the fall season. That's one reason why I'd support this change instead of adding days. Teh turkeys can't stand much more added pressure than they already have on them.

GSP

08-13-2002, 08:05 PM

I don't think we should get too radical in moving all the seasons. If you move it to warm weather you are talking October. Put it up front and you are messing with youth days for the kids, archery and muzzleloader season. Shift those around and stick it at the end, you are turkey hunting the week that rut is starting. The Dept wants deer killed, I think these layouts would have a negative impact.

As a combined thought. If the deer and turkey seasons are shifted and a split rifle season is added, along with the late muzzleloader season which would mean approx 25 days gun hunt. Where are the small game hunters going to fit in? We are talking all of November and 1/2 of December of deer gun hunting and turkey. Will the rabbit hunters be given the week of Christmas?
I don't think most deer hunters will think my dogs are as pretty as I do when they take a leak on the tree they're sitting in. Also, let's see, they are wanting to shut down most of the small game hunting at the end of Jan.??? I'm feeding 3 dogs for 45 day of hunting?

Seems like we have something that works, why fix it?
BTW, I am a proud NWTF member.

08-13-2002, 08:10 PM

leave it where it is......ez

Birdman

08-14-2002, 08:35 AM

If you guys want this left as is you or we better get together and make a move because they have the vote on the commission to make this happen and once it happens, it's to late. This is commig out of the west, far west so make a move or it's a done deal.

grouseguy

08-14-2002, 08:46 AM

I agree Ronnie, this should be the next order of business after or simultaneously with getting the open records. I have no desire to effectively lose another weekend from the front of small game season, especially with Roy determined to take away the back end of the season.

Multidigits

08-14-2002, 09:32 AM

I can't see this as a big change for anybody and really don't see it having an impact on any group. From my understanding this does not add days or take days away from anyone group. It's just moving it up maybe two weeks into November. I don't think there are many die hard turkey hunters even out there trying. The season will be before the crossbow season and before the Dec. muzzleloader.

From my prespective, we would need solid groun on "why" we would want to oppose the change with the State's NWTF behind the change. You want to oppose the change, fine, but post some valid reasons on why we should do so.

grouseguy

08-14-2002, 10:02 AM

My mistake, Multi. I meant my response for the split gun season for deer thread, but screwed up. I have no opinion on the fall turkey season, other than I think you should be allowed to use dogs in the fall, but even that is not an issue I would be willing go to the mat on. I agree that fall turkey hunting has just never taken off, and I don't see their being much support for or against it.

Birdman

08-14-2002, 02:04 PM

Multi I don't turkey hunt, but I would like to know why they would want to move fall season to Oct. and what help it would be. Again this will not effect me or mine, just would like to know. Looks like we need to make a post on the turkey site.

Multidigits

08-14-2002, 05:41 PM

Ronnie--I don't believe it's going to be in Oct. There was talk of that for awhile but not now.

Here's what I was told about the change. They simply want to change it to the day the modern gun season ceases. I mistakingly said earlier that it doesn't add any days. I believe they want it to run for 7 days instead of the current 5 days.

As seasons stand now, it would start on the Monday after Thanksgiving and run till the end of the next weekend. NOW--if they split the deer season into two 9 day seasons, I don't have a clue on what the dates will be.

I don't think this change will be noticed by small game hunters or archery deer hunters. Turkey hunter rarely shoot very many times a season and most of the times not as much as the poachers that are already out there.

I just think we need to support the change simply because the KY-NWTF is for it. Those guys are the die hards and got a bad deal on the change a few years ago from a Monday opener.

Highbow

08-14-2002, 06:04 PM

The change that was ask of UBK was to allow the fall turkey season to be put during the week of Thanksgiving right at the end of gun season.
UBK agreed with NWTF to do this. WE are not in favor of a split gun season. Either leave gun season as is or shorten it would be my opinion. Two weeks is plenty enough time for gun hunting and the extra muzzleloaders too.

KYhunter

08-14-2002, 06:34 PM

I would oppose the change. Sometimes those National boys have THEIR best interest in mind and not ours.

08-14-2002, 07:52 PM

was this so we could all put ( have a chance ) a wild turkey on the supper table for thanksgiving??????........what was the NWTF reason behind this?????.........it surely wasn't because the hens were nesting!!! i am going to agree with GSP......if you have something that is working well , why fix it........GIVE REASONS Y??....who and what will it benifit for this change??????>>>>>>ez

GSP

08-14-2002, 09:21 PM

I will say this. Tom Bennett has spoken 3 times to groups that I have been sitting in since June 15 of this year. They want a split Deer season BAD. There are a couple of reasons. They want the surge of 2 "opening day" effect. This drives up the numbers of deer killed. Another is it helps promote tourism dollars.(Before someone blast me here, these are Tom's words, not mine).
The first mention of moving the turkey season came when there was a POTENTIAL break to have it right before Thanksgiving. Sorry, this CAN NOT happen without a split deer season.
This is why I am against this. I really see this as a Trojan horse.
Again, I stand with, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Birdman

08-14-2002, 10:28 PM

Boys let me give you some facts from this district. In district which takes in 13 counties from Lawrance to Harlan Co. we had now get this 81 people that bought a turkey tag and I was one of the 81 and I don't hunt turkey. I don't know what this really means but it's like who gives a shit. We really haven't heard from a die hard turkey hunter on this issue. DA.

Ky Headhunter

08-15-2002, 06:02 AM

Did someone ask for a diehard turkey hunter? I fit that description. Also a small game & deer (archery) hunter, so I'm not completely biased on the issue.

Been wrasslin' with it for awhile now, but I'm starting to form a solid opinion.

Don't like the October idea. Sounds like that's no longer on the table anyway.

The pre-Thanksgiving idea is better, but I'm not wild about adding days to the season.

My favorite choice is to leave it as is. I just haven't heard any sound, management-based reasons for screwing with it. Messing with season dates so somebody can have a wild turkey dinner for Thanksgiving??? Gotta do better than that! I understand NWTF supports it, but why? Nobody seems to know. Unless it's the Thanksgiving dinner thing...

Valley Station

08-15-2002, 08:57 AM

"Fresh wild turkey for Thanksgiving dinner" IS what is driving the season date changes.
This will definitely increase the number of "fall poult shooters".
I vote to leave it as is , 1st week of December.
I prefer that we let the "baby jakes" get big enough to gobble before we hunt them!

INKYHUNTER

08-15-2002, 10:03 AM

I enjoy fall turkey hunting but it doesn't compare to spring hunting in my opinion. With the numbers that are now hunting in the fall I don't see why it should conflict with small game seasons. I really don't see the point in moving it up as I would rather have a butterball turkey for Thanksgiving. Maybe a few days added to the season would be nice as sometimes things come up and conflict with the five days dates. Last year it rained most of the season in the area I hunt. I do see the split deer season as a way to possiblity harvest more deer. In some areas that is valid management tool.

Birdman

08-15-2002, 01:53 PM

Boys if I'm not wrong wasn't the fall season set up for hunters to take hens, so that we could control the flock. If this is true, and the real turkey people(NWTF) wants to move the season to an earlier date then why not. I've thought about this a little if our deer hunting people was asking for something or our small game people was asking for a change would we not lesson to the people that hunt that certain animal and at least try to go with their wishes. This is a tuff call because all the NWTF ORGANIZATIONS are not for the move, so does this leave us at square one again.

Valley Station

08-15-2002, 02:15 PM

Birdman,

All of us whom have concerns and interest in the well being and management of the the wild turkey, are the "real turkey people"!
Fall season was not implemented to control the turkey population, but , to provide hunting opportunty of a resource that was lost to fall/winter natural mortality cycle.
Some of the "out spoken" members of NWTF are for the change , the majority is not.

Birdman

08-15-2002, 02:26 PM

Valley good to hear from you, and thanks for letting us know what's going on with you guys. The reason I stated the fall turky season was set up to monitor the flock is that we were told by our commissioner this was the real reason and hunters should be taking hens in fall. So I take it you want fall season to remain the same? Help us out here.

Highbow

08-15-2002, 02:57 PM

Members, I was informed at the UBK meeting that the NWTF is in favor of this , one because you have several kids out of school that week that might get a chance to hunt more, the idea of the Thanksgiving Turkey, the deer are already upset with the gun season so bowhunting won't be changed much, another fact we are small , new and it might be good to pick up some support from NWTF if we ever need it, they are huge and have a lot of power with the Dept. ??? If the dept. wants this split gun season it better be put in a way not to screw with good early bowhunting or the small game hunters- leave it where it is , is a good choice.

Valley Station

08-15-2002, 03:24 PM

Highbow,

Who made the statement at he UBK meeting that speaks for the Kentucky Chapters of The National Wild Turkey Federation membership?? I would suspect if you poll NWTF members, you'll find more against change than are for.

08-15-2002, 03:37 PM

just a question.........how many jakes get shot during this time? it's very hard tell whether its a hen or a to be tom at this time.
we are just thinning the flock of juvenile birds and mature hens.
if you still don't have your bird they sell them at kroger and walmart..........ez

KYhunter

08-15-2002, 04:07 PM

Most adult gobblers should be with gobbles, jakes with jakes and hens with hens at that time.

08-15-2002, 06:02 PM

last year fall season i saw them all together....jakes/ gobblers to be and hens to be( poults ) with the adult hen and yes all the BIG toms off by themselves.......not seperated as you just so stated there
kyhunter.........ez

Highbow

08-15-2002, 07:01 PM

Valley Station , if I remember correctly Jon Gassett had sent this request through to our President, with the copy of the requested change from the KY CHapter, Jon was asking if we were in agreement with this and those present agreed to it.
I really don't think it is going to make much of a change at all in the harvest numbers, most of us who will take one with a bow will already have done so by then and as you said there doesn't seem to be a big number of fall hunters out there.

Ky Headhunter

08-16-2002, 06:56 AM

I'd like to know where the myth about using the fall season to thin the hens got started. As Valley Station said, it was offered to provide another hunting opportunity (ie. another chance to sell tags) that would have very little impact on the resource. Key words "very little impact on the resource". That's one of the reasons dogs aren't allowed, and why the season is so short.

Believe it or not, gobblers are getting about as much pressure as they can stand in Ky. right now. We've been living like fatcats for several years now, with record harvest totals. Couple of poor hatches, or a really bad winter (do we get those any more?) will slap us back to reality. We've been lucky to have a string of fair-to-great hatches & relatively mild winters.

Can't see the numbers going up much with a change to the pre-Thanksgiving date, but I still think the "holiday wild turkey dinner" idea is weak. I suspect there would be a bigger jump in the total killed if it were moved to Oct.

Valley Station

08-16-2002, 07:28 AM

Highbow,
Dang It, thats like F&W, go ask a bow hunting organization that has four(4) months of deer season about a 7-day GUN Turkey season!
I know Jon is a little new to Ky, but, I assume he knows the B in UBK stands for bowhunters.

Ky Headhunter,
Your right about the impact of a couple of bad hatches.
I remember 8-10 years ago, Missouri had back to back wet/cold springs and it devastaed the turkey flock there. Poor boys from Missouri had to leave the state to hear a gobble.
We've been extremely fortunate.

Birdman

08-16-2002, 07:45 AM

Valley are you a member of the NWTF, and if so how do they poll their member on issues like this?

INKYHUNTER

08-16-2002, 08:10 AM

I think the fall hunt has very little impact on the total turkey populations. Not having a fall hunt will not have an impact if we get bad hatch years. The few birds that are killed in the fall won't make a tinkers dam difference. I am a member of the NWTF and haven't been polled. They may poll thru local chapters and I can't speak to that as I do not belong to one.
Personally they can leave if where it is, but moving it would not impact the total but very little. I

.300Savage

08-16-2002, 10:08 AM

It wouldn't really bother me if they moved it or not. I think that either way, it wouldn't make a big impact.

Rocco

Valley Station

08-16-2002, 10:26 AM

With the "2nd phase" of the deer rut kicking in early December and late muzzle loader season , I would prefer gun turkey season moved back till after late black powder season, if we're going to change.

Birdman,
During the Kentucky wild turkey restocking years I was a member.
I am not currently a member.It has something to do with "large fund raising schemes and high executive salaries" and "over commercialization of wild turkey hunting".
I know of no polling of Ky NWTF members for opinions.

Birdman

08-16-2002, 12:49 PM

Valley thanks for the info and that's why the Ky. Grouse Hunters don't belong to the Society. And thanks to you other guys for your input.

Highbow

08-16-2002, 04:28 PM

Valley, it is just one of those things that might interfer with bowhunting , I appreciate the fact he ask. I'm like many others that think they should pay attention to spring season and give the small game and bird hunters a chance to hunt without worrying about getting shot.

INKYHUNTER

08-16-2002, 06:51 PM

Highbow, I don't think fall turkey hunting impacts on small game hunters. I have been successfull hunting them almost like squirrels. I don't think it would endanger small game hunters, or interfere. It could affect bow hunting by having turkey hunters moving through the woods. But we bow hunters have a pretty long season.