Declaration of War?

[drakeshooter]

I just read a story from Yahoo! news about Iran and Venezuela discussing taking down the U.S. by hurting our economy by helping to further reduce the dollar's value. If you ask me, there isn't much difference there than a terrorist or other attack on us. This is further proof that we need to start taking care of #1 and pull out of the WTO. I'm all for a return to the Isolationist Policy of pre-WWII. I realize that had we taken down Hitler early on, millions of lives would not have been lost and I understand the rationale of taking down crazies like Ahmadinejad before they can do real damage. What I'm referring to is our giving away of the wealth that our country hoarded for so long.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071119/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_venezuela_4;_ylt=AiYolRznZpI83GE_qDBV2xwE1vAI

[Multidigits]

Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out. git-r-dun

[Hunter]

seen it on CNN. iran / ven*** was wanting OPEC to raise oil prices to 200 dollars a barrell so it would bring down the dollar.

seems like when i was in school one of the USSR leaders once said that you could destory the US without never firing one shot.

[mrdux]

Why hasn't Chavez caught a .50 cal Barrett round behind his ear? My Dad and I were discussing this today and he mentioned Castro. I said that once we kept nukes out of Cuba, Castro just became another socialist loudmouth. He was never a threat to our economy like Chavez.

[Wildcat]

This is further proof that we need to start taking care of #1 and pull out of the WTO. I'm all for a return to the Isolationist Policy of pre-WWII.

Great!! Now please explain where we will get our oil if we are "isolated" and will not "trade with the rest of the world"?

The most "isolationist" county in the world is North Korea, they couldn't ever feed their own people.


I agree with you that this is a declaration of war, heck I've been saying that for years. But if someone declears war on me I am not one to quit and run, I go aftter them before they can get me.

Like it or not but the day is coming when we WILL go over there and take that oil, if we do not then China will. It's coming down to that in our lifetimes.

[Wildcat]

Why hasn't Chavez caught a .50 cal Barrett round behind his ear? My Dad and I were discussing this today and he mentioned Castro. I said that once we kept nukes out of Cuba, Castro just became another socialist loudmouth. He was never a threat to our economy like Chavez.

Because "THEY" would impeach President Bush if he ordered it. Same with Irans nuclear plants, "THEY" will also impeach him if he tries to do anything about them.

[alxdrudady]

why not try using our own oil and let theirs rot

[Wildcat]

Right now we IMPORT 60% of the oil we USE. Cut down USE by 60% and we will have enough to get by on what we have. That means YOU and ME will have to get by on 60% LESS oil than we use today.


I saw a report the other day that said in 1964 the US used 250 million barrels of oil a month. In 2006 the US used 250 million barrels a DAY.

[drakeshooter]

Why not break the bonds of slavery to a fossil fuel that is polluting our Earth? You are totally missing my point Wildcat. We are GIVING our country away, piece by piece. I don't care how many silly arguments you want to give about free global trade (yeah, I sat through international economics as an undergrad), we are the single biggest purchaser of consumer goods in the world. We need to get out of the WTO, stop honoring one-sided trade practices and start tariffing the heck out of imports. We need to tell Mexico to stuff NAFTA (the biggest drug deal in the history of mankind, BTW) and pass whatever legislation that is necessary to compensate for China's unfair advantage such as slave labor and a lack of safety that cripple our nations homegrown business.

[daking]

We have untapped oil resources that the likes of Ralph Nader and Earth First have successfully lobbied to keep us from drilling. We have any number of unfinished nuke plants that were de-licensed because Ralph and the Boys have hamstrung them. How much energy could we make at home if we were to loose these two giants?

We're going to have to get away from fossil fuel. No question about it. Thing is, the technology to do so is not yet available. Ten years? 20 years? I don't know. I do know that resources that could be spent on such development are going to overpriced overseas oil. If we would use what we have available on our soil now while developing the next technologies, we could flip them all the bird. But we'll never do it as long as we cannot use what we have already and if we tax the living hell out of the people who are investing in the new technologies.

All of the liberal/green/anti-war/goofballs want everything to be perfect, but they are not willing to let us do the things necessary to work towards that perfection. We can't drill our oil. We can't license our nukes. We shouldn't be dealing in middle eastern oil. Well, what the hell are we supposed to do?

[95bravo]

I caught a documentary on ethanol a few weeks ago that made me sick. Brazil is one hundred percent free of foreign fuel. They make ethanol from sugar cane and pump a little oil. They completely changed over in the last 3 years. Gasoline in Baghdad is 14 cents a gallon, we are getting hosed :mad:. I caught a story a little while ago that they can make it out of kudzu. I don't think we will ever run out of that stuff, it grows faster than you can grow it.

[Wildcat]

drakeshooter,

So far there has been ONLY ONE person to make a "SILLY ARGUMENT" on here and it's YOU with your "Isolationist Policy " that wants to withdraw from the world.

You still have not answered my question how we will get our oil if we "isolate" ourselves until we can find something different. Until we can find that then you have a silly argument.


As for being the single biggest purchaser of consumer goods in the world, look at your own family and home, have you all cut back?? I don't mean maybe 5% but 50-70%. When your family does that then show the reat of us the way. Please do not try to tell us to cut back while your own family does not.



Yes we will have to get out of oil sometime but like Daking said it is years away. One thing everybody forgets, when it happens we ALL will have to buy brand new autos that will take the new fuel, our old ones will not meaning we will get nothing for what we drive today. No trade-in, nothing. Would you buy a gas burning truck when the new stuff will not work in it?

Ethanol is a band aid, it helps but that's all. Brazil has LESS autos NATIONWIDE than the State of Kentucky, the City of Los Angeles has more than TWICE the number of autos as the State of Kentucky. There has been studies that shows if all the ethanol made and grown in the world was send to the US we would use it all up in a week.

[drakeshooter]

Wildcat, I'm not trying to get into a personal confrontation with you. The "silly" part was mostly in reference to my professor's argument about why it was good for the U.S. to let foreign trade gain a foothold.

I'm not saying we should totally isolate ourselves from the world and close our borders. However, I do not like to sit back and watch China slowly take on more of our national debt.

[killinmammals]

Not many people realize how much freakin ethenol we would have to produce to not be dependant on oil

[Gobblergetter2.1]

Why cant we all just ride bikes?

[.45Lee]

It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of ethanol produces. That whole system is in the red before it starts. The people that want electric cars don't want nuclear power-when the San Fernando Valley "plugs in" at 5 p.m. on Friday , we'll have rolling blackouts to St. Louis. The goals aren't energy related , it's purely a redistribution of wealth policy. The evil , rich Americans "owe" the world-'cause stopping Hitler , Tojo and the Soviet Union wasn't enough. We're bad people.

[95bravo]

One bushel of corn ( 2.00$ to 3.00$) can produce 2.7 gallons of ethanol. It takes energy to turn the corn to ethanol, but also 18 pounds of animal feed is produced has a buy product of the process. How much would it cost to grow something like Kudzu?

[.45Lee]

Also have to bear in mind the fuel used to plant , cultivate and harvest the corn. Then factor in the raised cost to the consumer for food corn products , since a sizable percentage would now be going to ethanol production. Let's not forget it takes almost 2X the amount of ethanol to produce the same energy as a gallon of gasoline-12 miles per gallon , anyone? Ethanol also doesn't have the lubricating properties of petroleum-based fuels. No more diesels or jet engines. Anybody have a kerosene heater?
The ethanol bandwagon is being promoted by the same people that gave us MTBE (methyl-tertiary butyl-ethelyne) , toluene , and benzine , as a substitute for aniline lead in fuel. Too bad those chemicals are more dangerous and carcinogenic than lead.
The knee-jerk usually results in someone getting hit in the nuts. :)

[95bravo]

I used E85 when I was passing through IL this summer and I got the same MPG I always do, and even if I lost a a few MPG it would still use it because It was 40cents cheaper a gallon.

[Highbow]

There are sealed wells all over Kentucky and the Marathon refinery hasn't run at full production for many years. We could do very well if the US decides to take care of our own and quit worrying with the rest of the world.