naturalelite, we need an update on exactly when the rut begins

[AteUp]

Hey natty, I remember how last year because of your job, you were able to tell us the date and time the rut officially began in KY. We need an official announcement when it starts this year please. Thanks again, we'll all be waiting anxiously.

[raktrakr]

Especially in your area,specifically Beaver Creek:cool:

[25-06]

If you watched Deer & Deer Hunting last night,Charlie Alshimer said this years rut would begin Oct 26,but the chase period wouold begin the first week in Nov. and then there would not be alot of movement for about a week due to the breeding period and bucks being locked down with the does and then it should get good again for a short time.

If You Believe Charlie Alshimer?

[Manzanita]

I think I'm prerutting. I made a rub against the deli counter in Kroger.

[letmfly]

I think I'm prerutting. I made a rub against the deli counter in Kroger.

At least you did'nt make a scrape!! Keep your pants zipped in public.

[A.K.A. GROUSEGUNNER]

I watched it myself, & to back it up, a buddy watched a 6 pointer & a 4 pointer battle it out saturday morning for a hot doe on our lease in bracken co. the 6 took honors & bred the doe right below him. needless to say it has deffinately gotten a good start
If you watched Deer & Deer Hunting last night,Charlie Alshimer said this years rut would begin Oct 26,but the chase period wouold begin the first week in Nov. and then there would not be alot of movement for about a week due to the breeding period and bucks being locked down with the does and then it should get good again for a short time.

If You Believe Charlie Alshimer?

[naturalelite]

Especially in your area,specifically Beaver Creek:cool:
I got drawn to hunt there also....It will be perfect come this Saturday. Sign has started popping up everywhere in the last 5 days, I am being told by a reliable source. There have been some really good deer seen down there this year.

The official RUT this year will start at 9:51 est October 31st. I know its a little earlier than last year but hey get your bow and get out there. There are monsters waiting for you....

In order to predict this I have taken into consideration the moon phase, number of daylight hours, avg # of deer hit by our company in years past, distance between myself and Keith Meador (believe me that has more to do with it than you think) and last but certainly not least this is the exact time that I was brought into this world 32 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!

[letmfly]

Is that 9:51 AM or PM? If it's PM I need to charge the batteries in my spot light!

[naturalelite]

Is that 9:51 AM or PM? If it's PM I need to charge the batteries in my spot light!
I was hoping no one would catch that then I would have two times out there but since you called me on it I have to go with PM.

[westkybanded]

Between Frankfort and Beaver dam I counted ELEVEN dead bucks yesterday afternoon!!!! One dead doe.

There were NONE Friday afternoon.

There's some chasing going on now.

[letmfly]

Why is the rut in question at all? Everyone knows the October full moon is the trigger, and that the new moon in Nov is the best time to hunt the first cycle of the rut. :(

We all know we need to be in the treestand as much as possible the two weeks before rifle season with our bows. When we're in the tree we're hunting, when we're on the forum we're talking about hunting. Now, don't you be getting this thread deleted too!!:p

[naturalelite]

Why is the rut in question at all? Everyone knows the October full moon is the trigger, and that the new moon in Nov is the best time to hunt the first cycle of the rut. :( what is that you say about the full moon. You might want to read this
The Rut is the period of time when antlered ungulates, such as deer, sheep, elk, moose, caribou, ibex, goats, pronghorn and Asian and African antelope, mate. The rut for white-tailed deer usually lasts from 1-3 months in the Northern Hemisphere and may occur most of the year in tropical zones. The Rut is triggered by a shortening of the length of daylight hours (referred to as photoperiod) each day. The dates of the rut for different species depends on the length of their gestation period (length of pregnancy). Many species breed so that their young are born in the spring, shortly after new green growth has appeared (which provides food for the females, allowing them to provide milk for the young), and when the temperatures are warm enough that the young will not die of hypothermia.

The Rut is the time when white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), especially bucks, are more active and less cautious than usual. This makes them easier to hunt, as well as more susceptible to being hit by motor vehicles.

Some people believe that the white-tailed deer rut is also controlled by the lunar phase and that the rut peaks seven days after the second full moon (the rutting moon) after the autumnal equinox on September 21. However, study of white-tailed doe conception dates conducted in Minnesota between 1980 and 1987 showed no correlation between peak breeding dates of white-tailed deer and any lunar phase. More evidence for this came from a student study at the University of Georgia.

A white-tail doe may be in estrus for up to 72 hours, and may come into estrus up to seven times if she does not mate. Cow elk may come into estrus up to four or more times if they do not mate.

During the rut (also known as the rutting period) males (terms include 'buck' deer, 'bull' elk and moose, and 'rams' (male sheep)) often rub their antlers or horns on trees or shrubs, fight with each other, while out, and pursue estrus females by their scent.

[Manzanita]

what is that you say about the full moon. You might want to read this

I get as far as "antlered ungulates" and I start giggling and can't read any further.

[naturalelite]

I said nothing about the "rutting moon of September". I said the full moon of October. You may quote study after study and I will do the same. The fact is I make a living in the hunting/outfitting business and have been to seminar after seminar. The top people in the industry all agree on the October full moon as being the start of the whitetail rut in NORTH AMERICA, all of North America. Again, everyone has their opinions as to who is the top in the industry. I have statistically killed more deer on Nov 9th than any other day in the calendar year(27 bucks). It just so happens the new moon is on the 9th this year. LOOK OUT BUCKS.

I did nothing more than show you that NOT EVERYONE KNOWS what you claim they know. Nothing more. I don't care if you invented deer hunting you were not correct in stating EVERYONE KNOWS THE OCTOBER FULL MOON IS THE TRIGGER!!!!!!!!

[sirgiovanni]

I don't know why there is always so much discussion about this magical date. I'm glad the biologists understand every detail about it, but I have yet to see a need to understand too much if all you care about is shooting a buck and/or seeing lots of bucks. The first two full weeks of November have never let me down. I spend as much time in the woods as I can then, and I am never let down.

[naturalelite]

I don't know why there is always so much discussion about this magical date. I'm glad the biologists understand every detail about it, but I have yet to see a need to understand too much if all you care about is shooting a buck and/or seeing lots of bucks. The first two full weeks of November have never let me down. I spend as much time in the woods as I can then, and I am never let down.

That is the key. Just get off the couch and go out there. This thread is actually a joke that is a few years old. I started a thread about a big deer being run over the first week in november a few years ago and I made the mistake of saying the RUT has started. Now its kind of just a running joke with a little humor between friends. EVERYONE KNOWS THE RUT STARTS WHEN ----------DOES COME IN HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nwest]

In all seriousness Sir, you are doing the right thing IMO, as the new moon of Nov generally falls in there. This season I believe it is on the 9th. What hunters DON'T do is mark the most activity they see on the calendar, then prepare for the 2nd doe cycle. Typically 30 days after the first, the does that didn't get bred will be hot again. I have seen does being bred in April.


From what i have read this is true, Mainly he older "big nose" does hitting their stride now, the younrger ones come in sparaticly for the next 30 days. Peaking on or around the full moon of November.

On a side not the spousal unit almost got a "gynormis" hood orniment about 6:30 last night. Chasing a group of does. If I could just hunt that tree farm.....

[dead eye]

Last night was hunting in Pendleton Co. & on our walkie talkies was listening to a father & son watching 17 deer on a ridge, so I don't think the rut has started here in N. Ky.My son & I saw 0

[sirgiovanni]

Now its kind of just a running joke with a little humor between friends.


Ooops. :D

Understood. Now I'm in the know. :)

[150PandY]

I have hunted Saturday and sunday morning and didnt see as many deer as usual. I did see a small 8 and 9 pointer that came to rattleing both days.

[str8 shot]

Well looks like ive been right all year...ive been saying on here for several months now that halloween is going to be the day to be in the woods for the rut...man im good...lol

[buckfever]

The top people in the industry all agree on the October full moon as being the start of the whitetail rut in NORTH AMERICA, all of North America.

Just for the record, the whitetail rut is not the same in "all of North America". I've hunted in places in Alabama and Texas where the rut doesn't kick in until January.

[buckfever]

The official RUT this year will start at 9:51 est October 31st. I know its a little earlier than last year but hey get your bow and get out there. There are monsters waiting for you....

Would the "Natural Elite Official Rut Commencement" apply to southern Indiana as well, or are the rut dates different in Hoosier land? :D

[buckfever]

I disagree. I believe they see more movement then due to the decrease in temps, but the deer are already in rut in November. People have tried to say the further south you go the later the rut, but that would mean the northern states and Canada goes in earlier as well. THEY DON'T.

No, you are wrong, and frankly, I'm surprised you didn't know this from one of your many seminars???

The whitetail deer in Pineapple, AL (Wilcox County) aren't even thinking about rutting in November - not even a hint of rubbing/scraping/chasing/breeding going on. The breeding in many places in parts of Alabama, Florida, La, MS and Texas begins in January, and there are a ton of experts in the field that know this.

In northern Alabama, the rut is very similar to ours. In Mobile, Pineapple, Selma (Wilcox/Dallas and other counties), the deer aren't even CLOSE to rutting in November.

South Texas is also very well known for this exact same phenomena.

[naturalelite]

Would the "Natural Elite Official Rut Commencement" apply to southern Indiana as well, or are the rut dates different in Hoosier land? :D

Well I can tell you that if I had your problem and already tagged out on a super KY buck I wouldn't care what the rut was doing in IN I would just go and try to duplicate my before mentioned success:D

Add 2 minutes for ever 50 miles west you go from Somerset KY:D

[buckfever]

Phenomena.... a perfect word for what you are saying.

an exceptional, unusual, or abnormal person, thing, or occurrence</I>


As I said the rut is the same everywhere, unless you are in the "Land of Phenomenon".... LOL

I guess Field & Stream is in this "Land of Phenomenom" as well. . . :rolleyes:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/hunting/article/0,13199,1126573-1,00.html#

p.s. Note the easy to read little map on the right side of the page for peak rutting dates.

[buckfever]

We can quote different people with names. It doesn't matter. I just showed you where James Kroll, arguably the most important man in whitetail hunting says the full and new moon has nothing to do with deer moving in night or day. You just listed a F&S article that said it did.

No, I didn't say anything about what triggers the rut. I just commented that you were mistaken when you said that the peak rut in all of North America occurs in November.

If you follow the link below, you'll see that our esteemed Dr. James Kroll engaged in a "peak rut" whitetail hunt in JANUARY down in Mexico (which we'd all agree is part of North America ).

http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/television/nawtv_season2/

Now, I've also happened to see Dr. Kroll on the boobtube participate in several other south Texas hunts where he's explicitly talking about hunting the peak of the rut in December or January. In none of these episodes did he tell the viewer that those deer rut in November and that all that chasing/rutting/breeding they're seeing is abnormal.

Regardless of what triggers the rut, it doesn't happen in November in South Alabama or Texas.;)

[quackrstackr]

For every doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc. that were at the top of their class... there were probably more that barely scraped by but still received a diploma.

You see no discernable difference in their credentials...

Think about that the next time you go to the doctor or have your teeth drilled on.

[deadaim]

I have kept a hunting diary over the last 15 years and I have had very slim to none deer sightings on the mornings and evenings after a full moon. I still go out and hunt but my hopes of killing a nice buck on the full moon in October.........well lets just say I go anyway. Next season lord willing im going to go out between 10 and 3 and see what happens.

[buckfever]

The fact is I make a living in the hunting/outfitting business and have been to seminar after seminar. The top people in the industry all agree on the October full moon as being the start of the whitetail rut in NORTH AMERICA, all of North America. Again, everyone has their opinions as to who is the top in the industry. I have statistically killed more deer on Nov 9th than any other day in the calendar year(27 bucks). It just so happens the new moon is on the 9th this year. LOOK OUT BUCKS.

I don't want to be misquote you, so here it is. . . I was just pointing out that the "top people in the industry" do NOT agree that the October full moon starts the rut in south Texas, south Alabama and quite a few other places.

In fact, I'll bet that you can't cite one so-called expert that will claim that the rut in south Alabama or Texas normally begins in November.

To be honest with you, I probably wouldn't have even gotten involved in this thread, but you seemed to be tooting your own horn a little with all that "the fact is I make my living as a hunter/outfitter", "I've been to all the seminars by the top people in the industry", and "I've statistically killed more bucks (27) on one day - November 9th - than any other day" stuff.

How in the world are you surviving as a outfitter if you are out hunting during the peak of the rut and not guiding your clients? Seems to me that you'd be doing all the hunting if you've managed to kill 27 bucks on just one specific day of the calendar year?

Well, in any event, I wouldn't advertise any November "peak rut hunts" for any areas that you're guiding in south Bama. It wouldn't be accurate. :D

[Jimbo]

The Rut is triggered by a shortening of the length of daylight hours (referred to as photoperiod) each day.



For generations, hunters believed cold air temperatures triggered the rut. We now know it's shorter day length and reduced amounts of sunlight entering the eye that cause changes in a deer's endocrine system, spurring the onset of breeding."

[raktrakr]

For every doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc. that were at the top of their class... there were probably more that barely scraped by but still received a diploma.

You see no discernable difference in their credentials...

Think about that the next time you go to the doctor or have your teeth drilled on. This is true, the diploma only shows they passed, it doesnt state whether they passed with a A or a D-:eek:

[buckfever]

#1. If I were hunting big bucks Alabama would be one of my last resorts.
#2. I leave for Canada this Saturday for the month.
#3. I have killed 91 bucks in my 34 years. I haven't killed a buck in the last 3 years due to my job.
#4. Once again, you say "peak rut hunts". Go off on a tangent all you like in your own head. There seems to be lots of room.
#5. In my post above James Kroll states that the rut starts 3-5 days after the full moon. YOU pick which one you'd like to have as the one he is referring to, I am sure you will pick February.

#1. I'm not sure how Alabama's trophy buck potential is really relevant to our discussion or your original point that the rut occurs in November across all of North America.
#2. Have fun. I think it's fair to say that all the experts in the industry would agree that the rut occurs in November across all of Canada for whitetail deer. I hope you bag a big one and guide many clients to their trophies of a lifetime.
#3. 91 bucks. WOW!!! :eek::eek::eek: That's a lot for a 34 year old. Very Impressive. Assuming you started hunting at a reasonable age and not directly out of the womb, it looks like you're shooting about 4 bucks per year (excluding, of course, the last 3 years). Now, I'm not a professional outfitter like yourself (and I don't want you to take this the wrong way), but there are some experts in the industry that might opine that you'll start seeing larger bucks on your properties if you didn't kill so many. It's my understanding that states that allow a multiple buck harvest, like say Alabama for instance (see point #1 of yours above), have poorer quality trophy buck hunting because so many hunters shoot so many bucks before they reach their potential. Just a thought, but your clients might benefit if the guides didn't kill every buck that crosses their path.
#4. I'm not sure what a "tangent in my own head" means, but I'm not sure any of my tangents detract from our original discussion that the rut doesn't occur across all of North America after the October full moon.
#5. I'm sure that Dr. Kroll was speaking in generalities if he made this statement, and I'm fairly confident that he was not referring to the start of the rut in places like south Alabama or south Texas. I'm sure you wouldn't disagree with his assessment though that south Texas (where the rut actually occurs at a time other than November) is a fine place to target trophy bucks. As for the last point, I might pick February as a good time to hunt rutting deer if I happened to be hunting with Dr. Kroll in a place like Los Senderos Ranch in Mexico. :D

[aceoky]

This is true, the diploma only shows they passed, it doesnt state whether they passed with a A or a D-:eek:


Actually once you're seeking a Master's (or better) degree (at least in most schools) it takes at least a "C" to pass a course much less the program FWIW..... :) So we know they had to accomplish much better than a D- in many professions.

[letmfly]

Lowerunit, you going to Canada for a month, I just want to know if you are going to have access to a computer up there?:)

[buckfever]

For every doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist, etc. that were at the top of their class... there were probably more that barely scraped by but still received a diploma.

You see no discernable difference in their credentials...

Think about that the next time you go to the doctor or have your teeth drilled on.

Ditto that. In fact, if I were a betting man, I'd almost wager that just as many finished in the bottom half as the top half of the class. ;)

[Manzanita]

Lowerunit, you going to Canada for a month, I just want to know if you are going to have access to a computer up there?:)

:D

Fifty-five posts today so far, and that's not even counting the ones that got deleted. He's on a roll.

[AteUp]

This thread is solid evidence that people here will argue about anything. The start of the rut, of all things. Something no one on here can prove or disprove otherwise.

[ecmbowhunter]

And just think....people pay good money for this info. Who woulda thunk we have all the experts right here.

[Mepperson]

Hey guys, when does the peak of the rut begin?




I just had to do it!

[Pinwheel8]

Wow, there is ten minutes of my life I will never get back.

Anyway, I am going to post this and never ever read this topic agian.

I have read and done research on the Whitetail rut for many years. With the exception of a few years I have found Charles Alsheimer, Gene Larouche as well as the Drury brothers to be the best rut forcasters.

It is certainly not the October moon that triggers the rut. It is the 2nd full moon after the fall equinox. This falls in October this year, most years it is in November. All the experts that follow this opinion also say that daylight also is a major contributing factor. But, if daylight was the only factor, well, then the pre-rut (which is what everyone should be concerned about, not the actual rut) would be the same day every year. And if you have hunted more than a few years you know it's not. As far as temperatures and weather go, you need at or slighly below normal temperatures to see the best pre-rutting activity at daylight. Anything above normal will see a decrease in activity during daylight and an increase in darkness.

One this is for certain and it has been said several times already. Be in the woods as much as you can from the last of October the the last of November. Charles Alsheimer said it best. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[raven_over_easy]

It doese'nt matter when the rut begins! Cause when I'm sitting in the stand its' ON! LOL

[naturalelite]

No on second thought I will just let it go.. Put your hands up and step away from the computer.

[sirgiovanni]

I'm not taking any chances of missing the rutt on my vacation days this year. I've replaced the feeders with high volume dispensers of grain alcohol mixed with grape kool-aid and put some loud speakers of Barry White all over the farm.

[naturalelite]

I'm not taking any chances of missing the rutt on my vacation days this year. I've replaced the feeders with high volume dispensers of grain alcohol mixed with grape kool-aid and put some loud speakers of Barry White all over the farm.

Now that actually did make me LOL..... Its way to early to be laughing that hard man.

[Cornpile]

I'm not taking any chances of missing the rutt on my vacation days this year. I've replaced the feeders with high volume dispensers of grain alcohol mixed with grape kool-aid and put some loud speakers of Barry White all over the farm.
MY DARLING,I CANT GET ENOUGH OF YOUR LOVE..:D:D:D:D

[buckfever]

No on second thought I will just let it go.. Put your hands up and step away from the computer.

Good Gosh, Natty. I'm very disappointed with you. You're not even going to defend a thread started entirely in your own honor!!!


Ya'll must be integrated up there in your woods. Here we have to play Conway!

The Indians there(laziest people on Earth) immediately turned around and sold their cabins for a good sum of money.

Plenty of fertile ground to plow with these two posts, but to be honest, I'm too tired to even come up with something funny to say. . . .

[buckfever]

LOL... I say they are lazy because the govt built some housing for this group of Indians, sort of like Habitat here. They didn't cut wood for the winter. They tore down the houses stick by stick and burned them down from the outside in... TRUE STORY.


Sounds like your boss got a real bargain on his cabin then???

[semperhunting]

In Mobile, Pineapple, Selma (Wilcox/Dallas and other counties), the deer aren't even CLOSE to rutting in November.

South Texas is also very well known for this exact same phenomena.

Actually buckfever, I'm from the Fla Panhandle, and I've seen bucks running does during the Thanksgiving holiday, and grunted several bucks up in the middle of december.

[quackrstackr]

Must have been one that migrated down I-65. :D

I have seen deer around here still sporting their racks while turkey hunting in April and fresh rubs in March.

They are still animals, which means there are anomalies in every facet of this thing. Just like humans.. some women seem to come in season once a year and rare ones stay in heat year 'round. :D

My commute gives me the opportunity to see a fair amount of deer every day if they are active. So far, I haven't seen any signs of the rut really kicking in just yet but it's getting here. The deer in general have been moving much more in the last week.

[daking]

The rut will start at 7:18 AM on November 7, 2007 on the east coast., 4:18 west of the Rockies. In Post Hole, Kentucky, it will start at Noon on July First. See local listings for details.

[naturalelite]

In Post Hole, Kentucky, it will start at Noon on July First. See local listings for details.
No you didn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I can't believe you went there. Man your my HERO

[Feedman]

Just like humans.. some women seem to come in season once a year and rare ones stay in heat year 'round. :D




I almost cried when I read this.;) How do you find the latter:confused::confused:

[AteUp]

I almost cried when I read this.;) How do you find the latter:confused::confused:

They are really, really expensive.

[skippy]

They are really, really expensive.


SO are the other ones!!!!!!!

[Cornpile]

Has it started yet ????

[Longrifle]

Didn't make it out this weekend--but I've only saw one scrape last week......they changed my zone to a 4 this year....buck's only....must be good reason....either's there's only one left or the rut's not officially started.

[sirgiovanni]

More scrapes and rubs this weekend but we hardly saw anything other than young bucks running around. Much less doe activity and no big boys playing.