.410 shotgun for Turkey?

[ksp771]

I whould like to go Turkey hunting but don't want to shell out the $400+ for a shotgun. I have a 12Ga Goosegun and a .410 wingmaster pump. I favor the 410 because it is light. What should I use the 410 or the 12ga? is a 410 illegal for turkey?

http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[GSP]

.410 & 28guage are not legal.

[ksp771]

Thank you.

http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[Big58cal]

Only 20 - 10 gauge are legal for turkey hunting (with the exception of archery equipment spring and fall, and crossbows during the fall shotgun seasons). #4 shot and smaller only.

ksp771, just take your goose gun. If the gun is shiny, you can either paint it, get some camo tape, or one of the camo socks to go on it. Besides, a turkey isn't going to see a lot of glare off of just the muzzle pointing at him![:D]

[ksp771]

Thank you for the advice. I just located a Benelli Nova that is really versatile. I can use it for 2 3/4-3inch shells. It was what I wanted I found it new for $315.

http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[joekat46]

Sounds like you're all set. I know several guys that own the Nova. They all like them. You weren't really going to use a .410 for turkey were you[?][;)] Kinda like going bear hunting with a .22. I don't even like to hear about people using a 20 for turkey. Remington really gripes me with their introduction of a 20 ga turkey(?) gun that is supposedly made to shoot their overrated hevi-shot. In my opinion Remington has hyped that stuff up to the point it has caused a lot of out of range shots and wounded birds.[:(]. Again just my opinion but it didn't pattern worth a hoot for me. Stick with a 12 and a 3 or 3 1/2" lead shell and the turkey will be [xx(][xx(]. Good luck.

P.S. - If you really want to have fun go the NWTF message site and say something bad about Hevi-shot. Three or four guys that must own stock in the company will jump on you with both feet. [}:)].

[Big58cal]

Hey joekat, a .410 will kill a turkey. A very good friend of mine turkey hunts in either Alabama or Georgia every year. Down there, they go by the amount of shot, not the gauge. He loaded up some .410 shells with the right amount of shot, and killed a great big bird with it. He's got a picture of the bird laying on the pine needles, with the hump-back Browning laying beside it, and the empty hull sitting up on the gun. Talk about a great picture! My point is, it can be done. Just like using a .223 or .22-250 for deer hunting. As long as you know the limitations of the gun and pick your shots, the animal's dead.

Now, I know you're going to say that some people won't know the limitations of the .410, right? Well what about the people that use small calibers like a .223 for deer? Do all of these people know the limitation of their guns?

[CVN71 Ordnance]

I have a Benelli Nova in the Camo pattern and I love it. Mine will shoot the 3 1/2 inch shells. I didn't get to hunt Turkey with it last season because we were out to sea. But I am looking forward to going this Spring.

GO NAVY!!!

[joekat46]

Big58 - One guy in a hundred would have the skill or patience to use a .410 for turkey. It is a dumb idea. Same for the small calibers for deer. You're right most guys don't know their gun's limitations when they are in actual hunting conditions. That's why you hear so many stories about birds "missed" at extreme ranges. These birds aren't "missed". They are wounded[V]! Thankfully most states don't allow the small guns.

What's your friends' point in using the .410 for turkey? Does he have a medical condition that is sensitive to the 12s recoil or is it just an ego thing?

[hillbilly2163]

no need to be like that joe.

he might be a better hunter than us.

i think people hunt too heavy. like a 300 win mag for deer.....could use it on cape buffalo.

3.5 12 ga. is overkill too.

i use a sidelock 12 with 80 gr of goes and an equal measure of #4 chilled shot. they don't go anywhere.

some people would use a 50 cal machine gun if it was allowed......

[Multidigits]

Actually, the .50 would be legal for deer, as would the .17 Rem. or any other center fire cartridge. With turkeys, ONE single #6 or #7.5 shot will kill the bird, so the Dept. should use the same general principle that they use on the deer calibers. If it would work, give the shoter the choice. Anyone that don't think the .410 could kill a turkey is badly mistaken. How many would want one shot at them as a test to show that it wouldn't be effective?

[Grant]

I don't look as using a 3 1/2 as over kill at all. Deer hunting and turkey hunting are a little different as far as what your wanting to load to do. In deer hunting, your wanting one shot to penetrate the vital area and do enough damage to properly harvest the animal. In turkey, your relying on a wad of shot hitting the bird in the head and neck area and inflicting a fatal shot. Alot of shots are made through small trees and bushes so the way I look at it, the more shot you have traveling at the bird, the better off you are. Less chance for a miss(my opinion). Now, I don't think you have to have 3 1/2 inch shells, or even 3 for that matter. I have seen several turkeys killed with a 20 gauge by youngsters. You don't have to have the big killer loads, but the way I look at it, the more shot the merrier.

[GSP]

A mistake many folks makes is how far and how well a pattern goes. A .410. 28,20,16, 12 & 10ga each throw the exact same pattern, out of the exact same choke, the exact same effective range. The only difference is the ammout of pellets within that pattern. The problem with a .410 is you will have very few shot within your 30" circle. You can miss a bird you are holding daed nuts on at 30 yards or 20.
As for the 3 1/2? Actually not much extra powder, just more shot heading down range.
As for over-kill? How many turkeys have you ever skinned that were shot up to bad to eat??? I killed one in the spring that had 4 complete pass throughs of the breast at 40 yds and I killed one today that had 3. I don't see that as over-kill.
Yes, a .410 will kill a turkey, so will a rock, if you can hit it.

[Big58cal]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">joekat46 Posted - 12/08/2003 : 06:42:27 AM
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What's your friends' point in using the .410 for turkey? Does he have a medical condition that is sensitive to the 12s recoil or is it just an ego thing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There's nothing wrong with him. He normally uses a 12 gauge with 3" loads. He just wanted a little more challenge and wanted to do it, and did! As far as him being a hunter, he's probably better than you or I will ever be. Shotguns are his thing. He used to be really into trap and has several patches (from the old days) of 100 out of 100, and 200 out of 200 from trap shoots. I think me may have also had a couple of 500 out of 500 patches also. Can't remember, it's been a while since I saw them. The old man knows his guns and his loads.

This discussion is like the recurve vs. compound debate. At the end of the day though, it comes down to what you're comfortable with and knowing its limitations.

[buckdroppings]

I went this spring with a Remington Sportsman 48 20ga and had no problem at all. I would have preferred a 12ga but I did not have one at the time. I just figured I might need to get him in a little closer. 23lb bird at about 20 yards. ShOOO did taste good. just a little dry.

[ksp965]

I use a 3 1/2" 12 gauge. My thinking is that I need this gun for geese. If I need it for one thing I hunt, then using it for other things I hunt allows me to shoot it more and to become more comfortable and more proficient with the gun. Besides, the nice thing about the 3 1/2" is that you can shoot 3" or 2 3/4" in it to adjust the shell size to the game you hunt. You can have all the challenges you want, I feel I owe it to what I hunt to make my top prioity to harvest what I shoot, humanely, without leaving wounded game out there to suffer needlessly. I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, but just telling you what I feel and believe in.

[joekat46]

There is a very definite need for a margin of error in actual turkey hunting conditions. The .410 is not going to give this "margin" and the thought of it being used for the big birds is a basically bad idea which is why most states don't allow it. There probably is the one guy in a hundred that is skilled enough to use the small guns for turkeys, geese, and ducks but the birds deserve better. I remember my old Ohio days when some people thought it would be fun to use their .410 for deer hunting (yes - there is or was a .410 deer slug load). They turned into real skilled long distance trackers - out of necessity.

[Multidigits]

.410 is legal for deer in Ky. and in Ind. There are guys that miss with 12 ga. guns, so what do we have them use???

[joekat46]

Have them use their brain to let themselves know that they need to spend more time on the range. Practice does make perfect, or at least, helps a whole lot[;)].

[ksp965]

There are guys that miss with 12 ga. guns, so what do we have them use???<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by joekat46</i>
<br />Have them use their brain ...[;)].<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I like that! All to often that is the one piece of equipment that is under utilized.

[schuyler olt]

A number 5 pellet is exactly the same regardless of what guage it is loaded in. The difference is in the speed of the pellet. The faster it is going when it hits the bird, the more impact it carries. Speed is determined by the amount of propellant and the weight of the shot charge. A 3" twelve is considerably faster than a 3.5", and is faster than a 2.75" because they are loaded with more powder. Obviously, the killing effect of a shot is effected by the number of times a bird is hit, so the more shot you are throwing, it may have a small benefit, but not nearly as much as the speed.

Most 3" 20 guage loads are faster than a 3.5" twelve. Many folks are going to twenties to save weight--they're much easier to lug around.

A .410 could definitely kill a gobbler, if legal. My concern with one is safety--think how narrowly you are constricting the barrel if you would put an extra full choke on one. Since most .410s are built on really light frames with pretty light barrels, the increased pressures could be disastrous.

And yes, Hevi-shot is only marginally more powerful than lead. IMHO, I can't justify the extra expense. My Winchester 3" HVs are killing them stone dead, and I can't see messing with it.

[Multidigits]

ALL .410s, with the exception of skeet guns, are already full choked.

I don't advocate using a .410 for turkeys. I use a 12 with 3 1/2" Hevi-shot loads. But it should be legal under the same principal that we use on deer calibers. Let's not have any gun control from our Dept. Shooter's choice is better. 99.9% will make a good sensible choice.

[hillbilly2163]

gsp, i do not know where you got the info that all sotguns throw exactly the same patterns with the same chokes. or that there isn't anymore powder in the bigger shells. i disagree.

i have a 410 that will put 15-18 in an rc can at 25 yrds. it is an old h&r singleshot. i have a 835 moss with a superfull turkey choke and a 500 moss with a superfull turkey choke that WILL NOT do this. now unless i am making a 70 yard shot [which i wouldn't try] which one would you rather have??

if the outdoor channel and the guys arounfd the water cooler at works say pink arrows shoot much better there will be guys that have to have them and will use nothing else. all the hype today and high powered sales will sucker people in all the time.

i am not saying that the heavy loads aren't good, they are, but i will put my old 410 up to ANY 3.5 gun out there with a factory made choke within 45 yards.......

[hillbilly2163]

oh yeah,

i hunt with a 12 ga. caplock. it have a european full choke. wich is more open that a reg full. i have killed birds with it the last 3 years.

i use 70 gr of goex black powder and an equal measure of #4 chilled shot. [ i can hear some of the guys screaming now] no pyrodex, no heavy shot, not an inline, no scope.

gawd why would he do that you ask? because i want to and i can kill em just as easy for 1/3 the price. just have to wait for the smoke to clear to sort it out.

[Multidigits]

GSP is correct. The pattern dia. shouldbe close to the same. The difference is that the shot string lentgh is much longer on the bigger gauges. The .410 has a shot string about a foot long. On skeet, you have to be on target to bust it. On turkey heads, it wouldn't matter.

[hillbilly2163]

i disagree... i have NEVER Seen two guns pattern exactly the same and i am no pup.

[Multidigits]

Pattering the same and a gun having the same size pattern is two different things. The difference in chokes is the distance that the particular choke throws a 30" pattern. It might be 40 yards or 30 yards, depending. Numbers of pellets in the circle is the denisty of the pattern.

[hillbilly2163]

ok. due to my lack of technical data i can not argue with that. i do know that my 410 will put more in a sweet spot in the pattern than will the 835 or the 500 with turkey chokes that are toghter than a stock full. who cares where the extra pellets go. one patterns a gun for the 'sweet spot'

all i am really saying is that it is possible to have a smaller ga gun that will put more in the head than a larger ga. at a reasonable distance.

i don't want to knit pick. just make a point.

thank you

[hillbilly2163]

furthermore. i will wager that my 410 will put as many more in a small area than a factoy chokes 3.5

[schuyler olt]

I wouldn't take that bet. However, I've seen some competition turkey guns that will just about put more pellets in the zone at 40 yds than a .410 has to begin with.

I shoot clays with a 28 and a 12. Interestingly, some 28 loads are faster than some 12s. But because of the shorter shot string, you have to be on them better. And I can tell you from experience that a 28 will flat stone a dove, quail or pheasant just like a 12 when you're on.

[hillbilly2163]

actually i know a guy that has killed may limits of doves inside a box with 410.

but that is apples and oranges.

[Valley Station]

Federal shell, 12 Ga, 2 oz. coppercoated #6's against 410 with any load at 45 steps?? Not wanting to take advantage of some one, but, I'll take that bet.[:D]

[Multidigits]

Quit ganging on!

[joekat46]

A lot of loads and combos look great on the patterning board. When "Mr. Longbeard" is slipping up through a laurel thicket on my off shoulder and I'm going to get one pop at him I want my 12 ga with a heavy turkey load. I want 1 3/4oz of Winchester HV through a Kicks Gobblin Thunder choke to put him down for the count[xx(]. There is no worse feeling than - BOOM - and then watching him run/fly off. Use the .410 and you are asking for trouble. Again - the big birds deserve better. Save the trick shots and small bores for the sporting clay fields. We'll all be better off.

[GSP]

Hillbilly, what is was talking about is the pattern size.

Take 6 or 8 newspaper sheets or a bed sheet and nail it to the barn or your neighbors house, step back 40 yards and shoot it with a 12ga full choke, any size shot. Take a 30" hoop and you will see "most" of the shot fit inside this 30" circle. Hang a clean target, shoot it with a .410 full choke, same size shot as the 12ga and you will notice that most of the shot fits inside the 30" hoop.
A full choke is designed to have a 30" pattern around the 40 yd range, modified around 35 yd, Improved cylinder around 30 yd.

As for the RC can, a super--full 12ga should be making screen wire out of it at 20-25 yards. Have you shot a large piece of paper at that range to see where your pattern is centered?

As for the doves. I hunt with a guy that limits everytime out with a .410 and one box of shells. He and it are deadly as can be!!! He shoots an 870 Wingmaster.

[GSP]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hillbilly2163</i>
<br />oh yeah,

i hunt with a 12 ga. caplock. it have a european full choke. wich is more open that a reg full. i have killed birds with it the last 3 years.

i use 70 gr of goex black powder and an equal measure of #4 chilled shot. [ i can hear some of the guys screaming now] no pyrodex, no heavy shot, not an inline, no scope.

gawd why would he do that you ask? because i want to and i can kill em just as easy for 1/3 the price. just have to wait for the smoke to clear to sort it out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Have you checked out the Muzzleloader forum? There was a guy there the other day looking for a smoke-pole turkey hunter to talk with.
I am one that does not by into hype either. I only spend my $ on what I know works for me. Your friend that shoots doves with a .410. Is he from Georgetown?

[yelper]

I think there should be some type of permit for those hunters that wish to try hunting with an 'inferior' weapon, as long as they are proficient with it. I read an article about a guy 10 years ago that made an atlatl (spelling?) and ended up killing a doe in Colorado with it, but could only hunt during the gun season, per the F&W.

I do think it is wise that restrictions are out there for the general public, as many of them would NOT put the time in, or wait for that bird to get to within 7 steps....

I also love to hunt turkeys w/blackpowder, but limit the range to 1/2 of what I used to shoot them with the 3" mag....

[Taylormade]

ksp, also from erlanger. Howdy neighbor!

[ksp771]

Howdy Taylormade, I guess you are into Taylormade golf clubs by the handle you have?

http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[ksp771]

Thank you to everyone that posted replys to my add/information request. I just got the 12GA Benelli Nova today and it looks great! I like the 410ga and still have the same one I fired 25 years ago. It was the first gun that I ever shot and the poor thing just sits back there begging me to go hunt. I think that next year the Toms had better hide with the knowledge that everyone shared with me ranging from pattern sellection to shooting with the chokes available today. Thank you again and good hunting.


http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[joekat46]

Good luck with the big birds next spring. This was an interesting discussion[:D].

[turk2di]

Im sorry, but a .410 should not be used in deer hunting-turkey hunting-waterfowl situations. jmho[;)]

what u get out, is what u put in

[hillbilly2163]

ok. we agree to disagree.

the indians took them with sticks with rocks on the ends. guess they shouldn't have done that either.............

[hillbilly2163]

saw 10 turkey this morning as i was getting ready to turn the squirrell dog loose. a couple of them had paint brushes hanging from their chests. could have taken any of them. they just stood there and then slowly walked off. had the 12 ga. smokepole loaded and in hand. was only 18 hrs too late.

figures.

[GSP]

Hillbilly, where you located? Did you have a chance to read my posts?
Rick-GSP

[ksp771]

I went ahead and bought my archery tag. Did you use anything to call them or was it luck that they came to you?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hillbilly2163</i>
<br />saw 10 turkey this morning as i was getting ready to turn the squirrell dog loose. a couple of them had paint brushes hanging from their chests. could have taken any of them. they just stood there and then slowly walked off. had the 12 ga. smokepole loaded and in hand. was only 18 hrs too late.

figures.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

http://www.wrightsweaponsystems.com

[hillbilly2163]

i am located in allen co. i hunt barren co also.

as for the turkeys i just parked and got out of the truck and they were standing there looking at me. walked slowly off..could have dropped one had season still been in or if i would have had my bow.

or my 410...haha

[GSP]

That's a little far from me. I would like to hook up with someone that hunts squirrels with a tree dog. I've not done that in 30 years. Used to love it. What kind of dog you running?

[hillbilly2163]

i hunt an original mountain cur. she is 7 mo old. she is a hunting machine as are most mtn curs. she is out of nash rambler and zumwalt's cricket. has hall of fame blood in her. she has a lot to learn as do i but we do ok together.

would take you out on a hunt if you would like to come down.

where do you live?

might have to put up with me hunting with my type of weapons....lol

[GSP]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hillbilly2163</i>
<br />i hunt an original mountain cur. she is 7 mo old. she is a hunting machine as are most mtn curs. she is out of nash rambler and zumwalt's cricket. has hall of fame blood in her. she has a lot to learn as do i but we do ok together.

would take you out on a hunt if you would like to come down.

where do you live?

might have to put up with me hunting with my type of weapons....lol
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I live in Lexington now. I use to have a black mouthed cur many a year ago. A good squirrel dog he was.
As for shootin irons, I squirrel hunt with a .22, shotgun and a .32 cap&ball. Started out with a Stevens .410. And yes, it knocked a bunch out of the tallest hickorys![^][:D]

[hillbilly2163]

i have been looking for a .32 i want a "tennessee poorboy" long barrel fullstock. maybe even a flintlock. i am training this pup and need to concentrate on her not my shooting. one of the places i frequent is primative weapons only so i use my .12 ga caplock there. i load the 12 up light and it works good for me.

i know where there are some quality pups for sale. they are blackmouths and are for real sq dogs.

come on over after smokepole season and we will watch her work. i hunt her everyday just about.

[GSP]

.32 is a fun shooter but gets dirty fast! Almost need to run a patch after each load. .36 might do you better. Both are fun.

If I can get down that way I would love to watch your dog run. As for getting another dog? I'll be looking for another house. The wife's about to throw me and the 3 I have now out.[:D]

"Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog".

[yelper]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hillbilly2163</i>
<br />i have been looking for a .32 i want a "tennessee poorboy" long barrel fullstock. maybe even a flintlock. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Cabelas has a few that are pretty nice (.32 or .36). I got one of the blueridge in .32 and after replacing the fixed sights, like it much better.... ..and Cabelas return policy on stuff is great.

Dad owned a place across from Barren (state park) in Austin.. Was the best place I ever turkey hunted..... Too bad he had to sell.

[hillbilly2163]

i live real close to where you are talking about. i live just up the river from walnut creek and austin boat ramps. i live on the allen co side. the turkeys are thick here to say the least.

[ksp965]

I've never seen as many squirrels as I have on my farm this year. Don't know if they are that many or if they are just getting where they don't fear you because no one hunts them.

[hillbilly2163]

near lexington?

would be a long way to drive for a hunt.