Hunting Club Question

[KYHUNTER14]

My dad and I are members of a hunting club here in Eastern Ky. The club land was purchased in 1950 for $700. I believe there is 10 acres here, but the land is bordered by 1000's of acres of company land. Anyway, all the people on the deed are deceased. Currently there are less than 20 members of the club, but only about 6 or 7 attend regular club meetings. About 4 or 5 members have recently talked about selling the land. My dad and I are opposed to selling the land as is at least one other member. My dad and 1 of the other members (who is in favor of selling the land) are the only 2 left who actually did any work on the actual club building. A block cabin and dog lot were built in the early 60's. A few questions:

When my dad asked who would get the money for the land, one of the wannabe sellers said, " well only about 5 or 6 of us show up at the meetings, so I figure we divide the money up between us." My dad is opposed to selling the land mainly because he still hunts the land and because he thinks it is not right that the ones who actually paid for the land are dead. My dad also thinks that if we are unable to stop the sell of the land that the heirs to the names on the deed should get 100% of the money. Is this accurate?

If there are only 3 members who are opposed to selling can they have any say so in the matter?

Can this place be sold, legally?

Anything else you guys want to chime in on please go ahead. I just dont think it is right that these guys have used this land that others paid for long ago and now they are getting too old to hunt and they want to sell it to get whatever money they can get out of the deal.

[slickhead slayer]

I don't believe those guys can sell the land without being on the deed. When the owners passed away who was the land deeded to? Thats what is relavent here.
And who attends meetings has no relavence. If the court deemed that the members were deemed the owners (if the deceased had no will and no dependents), then all the paying members would be eligible. Meeting attendence would bear no importance. Some of the attorneys on here will be able to give you more detailed advice.

[GSP]

Do y'all have By-Laws or are you Incorporated?
If you have By-laws, they should deal with disolve of the club. Also, they probably will spell out what happens to the money.:eek: Club members actually may not get a penny.
Why I asked if you were incorporated is, in case no one remembers if there is any By-laws, they would be filed with articles of incorporation.

[weedwalker]

I would think that if everybody on the deed has passed on, then their heirs are your new owners.
Sounds like you're about to pop the top on a can of worms.

[KYHUNTER14]

I would think that if everybody on the deed has passed on, then their heirs are your new owners.
Sounds like you're about to pop the top on a can of worms.

That is what I was thinking and my dad and I agree this is the way it SHOULD BE, but things do not always work out the way they should. I like hunting on the place and if it is sold I would not expect a penny of any money. other members are more coniving though. As dad likes to say, they would eat a mile of sh#% if they thought there was $5 at the end of it.

[slickhead slayer]

What is most likely to happen is that these guys try to sell, the law doesn't allow it, and then the courts decide who the beneficiries are. Which means some decendents who didn't even know the property exist get the property, the club members don't get a dime AND you all lose your hunting spot. Sounds like a can they would be foolish to open.

[buckfever]

As GSP asked, is the "Club" incorporated? If it was and the "Club" has openly, adversely, and hostilely possessed the land for more than 15 years, it might (and I use the word "might" b/c this is very difficult to prove) have a colorable claim of adverse possession.

It sounds as though your Dad's Club started out with a handful of guys, and the ones with money simply bought the property and put the deed in their names??? Other than the deed, are there any other documents at all related to the Club, especially any that show a right of survivorship agreement or similar language? Who's paying the taxes on the land?

Let's assume there are 8 guys on the deed. Each owns a 1/8 interest. When they died, their heirs/beneficiaries took each of their respective interests. I suspect that the heirs don't even know about this particular asset. On the downside, if you start fishing around, you're likely to lose your hunting spot b/c it doesn't sound like the beneficiaries were hunters to begin with (or they would've already known about their Dad's/Uncle's hunting club). If this is correct and you tell them about their ownership of the land, it's likely they'll just round up the other owners (i.e. heirs of the other deceased deeded members) and sell the property.

The Club members have absolutely NO individual ownership interest. Absent a very unlikely adverse possession claim, the Club itself also no interest. Your greedy Club members aren't going to get jack.

The good news is that your father could probably take the cabin with him in the event that the heirs decide to sell the place.

[KYHUNTER14]

The club is The Greenup County Foxhunters Club. Armstrong cable rents out land on the property for their towers. The rent money is used to pay taxes. The remainder of the rent money is put into an account. The account name is under Greenup County Foxhunters Club. When Armstrong pays rent, they pay the Greenup County Foxhunters Club. This information may help out. Thanks for all the insight. Most of you guys who have chimed in on this have about the same idea I had as to what would happen with this situation, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

[GSP]

They are not listed with the state in that name.

http://apps.sos.ky.gov/business/obdb/(q3e25x45oq3fkl45u0utdaik)/default.aspx

[buckfever]

The club is The Greenup County Foxhunters Club. Armstrong cable rents out land on the property for their towers. The rent money is used to pay taxes. The remainder of the rent money is put into an account. The account name is under Greenup County Foxhunters Club. When Armstrong pays rent, they pay the Greenup County Foxhunters Club. This information may help out. Thanks for all the insight. Most of you guys who have chimed in on this have about the same idea I had as to what would happen with this situation, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

The Club may have a problem. If the rightful heirs discover that you've been collecting rent for property that the Club doesn't own, they may have a claim against the club for back rent. I'm surprised Armstrong Cable didn't check the deeds to make sure they were paying the correct landowner.

Judging from your last post, it appears that the Club has been in control of the land for quite some time and acting as the owner of the property. If the guys on the deed all passed away more than 15 years ago and nobody has stepped up, the Club might be entitled to assert adverse possession over the land.

[ptbrauch]

As I understand it, if anyone who is on the deed opposes the sale, it will take a judge to force the sale. The cost and expense of that may be more than what anyone will get in return, not to mention that it would have to be paid up front.

With all these questions about ownership, whoever buys it needs to make sure they have title insurance.

[KYHUNTER14]

I am sure that the members of the club, not those on the original deed have maintained the property (cutting grass, etc.) for more than the last 15 years. Whether the original names on the deed have been deceased more than 15 years is another story. I am not sure of that, only that they are now deceased.

Can i go to the Greenup County Courthouse and check out the deed myself? I was told that the secretary of the club has the deed but surely the courthouse would have one too? Seeing the actual deed for myself will probably clear up some of the questions I have and I can at least give you guys definitive answers.

[GSP]

I am sure that the members of the club, not those on the original deed have maintained the property (cutting grass, etc.) for more than the last 15 years. Whether the original names on the deed have been deceased more than 15 years is another story. I am not sure of that, only that they are now deceased.

Can i go to the Greenup County Courthouse and check out the deed myself? I was told that the secretary of the club has the deed but surely the courthouse would have one too? Seeing the actual deed for myself will probably clear up some of the questions I have and I can at least give you guys definitive answers.
The Deed will be recorded at the courthouse.

[KYHUNTER14]

As I understand it, if anyone who is on the deed opposes the sale, it will take a judge to force the sale. The cost and expense of that may be more than what anyone will get in return, not to mention that it would have to be paid up front.

With all these questions about ownership, whoever buys it needs to make sure they have title insurance.

This is the first thing I told my dad when he brought up the scenario. I told him it would cost more to take it to court to see who is entitled to any money than anyone would get anyway.

[KYHUNTER14]

The Deed will be recorded at the courthouse.


I am going Thursday to check it out and I will get back with you guys.

[predator]

You can ask an attorney on this, but I think your father, or whomever was one of the orginial owners, can file suit to quiet title and let the Master Commissioner sell the property at the court house door.
If you are the high bidder, and the property brings aleast 2/3s of appraised value then you are the new owner. Again, get an attorney's opinion on this.

[KYHUNTER14]

My dad was not one of the original owners and his name is not on the deed. I failed to mention earlier that Armstrong Cable gets first chance to buy the land if it sales. This is written into the deed somehow or so I have been told. I will check it out and get back on and let everyone know.

[slickhead slayer]

My dad was not one of the original owners and his name is not on the deed. I failed to mention earlier that Armstrong Cable gets first chance to buy the land if it sales. This is written into the deed somehow or so I have been told. I will check it out and get back on and let everyone know.

Thats called first right of refusal, and it means they have first shot at whatever the asking price is.

[BunnyBuster]

The club is The Greenup County Foxhunters Club.

They are not listed with the state in that name.

http://apps.sos.ky.gov/business/obdb/(q3e25x45oq3fkl45u0utdaik)/default.aspx


It isn't the present Greenup County Wildlife Club on Beauty Ridge is it?

[KYHUNTER14]

Nope, though I heard that was a crooked deal from the get go. Not sure but that is just what I heard.

[rabbit16v]

Do you know any of the original owners names or anybody from the original club?

[Snareman2]

Do y'all have By-Laws or are you Incorporated?
If you have By-laws, they should deal with disolve of the club. Also, they probably will spell out what happens to the money.:eek: Club members actually may not get a penny.
Why I asked if you were incorporated is, in case no one remembers if there is any By-laws, they would be filed with articles of incorporation.

I agree with Rick. There should be some By-Laws and Articles of Incorporation. Also, to be Incorporated in the state, there is an annual filing fee of only $4 paid to the Secretary of State, due at the end of June each year.

If it is just some good o'boys that just named their place to hunt, there should be some names somewhere on the deed or other official documents. There should be some kind of documented records of members ie. (Presidents, Secretarys, Treasurer, and other officers of the club).

[Snareman2]

You can go to the Property Valuation Administration (PVA) office at the court house, they will have aerial photos, acres, who bought what and when. Then go over the the County Clerks Office and look up the deed, they will have it recorded in a book. The court house is where I would start out, and don't forget to make copies. Then if you have any lawyer buddies, show them what you have and go from there.