Arrow how to's

[rabbit16v]

Finally bought a new bow last year (basically a starter bow) and have some questions regarding some things about it.

First, how should I go about finding arrows? Are there some that are gonna be better suited for each bow or is it just a preference thing?

Also, w/ the arrows I have as of right now, how do I go about finding the weight of them?

I was trying to calculate speed but some things I didn't know about the bow or setup to fill in all the blanks. I honestly couldn't tell you what they were cause I don't remember the site address.

Most likely more to come

[WhiteRubi]

Post all of your info here. I'm sure that some of the guys can help.

Bow, draw weight, draw length, what's on the string (Peep, leeches, loop, etc)
what arrow, what length, what weight field point or broadhead, what fletching, etc

Dr Meador will be along shortly, I'm sure. Nutcase should be able to help, as well.

[rabbit16v]

Bow: Matin MagCat

55-70# (I would guess at around 60-65# right now)
30" length (I believe)
2 leeches
tube style peep
string loop
basic stabilizer and wrist strapArrow: Easton XX75 Aluminum (2117)

length cut down to 29.5"
4" vanes
100 grain Montecs (might go up to 125's)
basic inserts and nocks that came w/ arrowsHope this helps.?.?

[keith meador]

is the martin a one cam or two cam bow? if a two cam, which cam model?

[rabbit16v]

Single cam model

[keith meador]

you need a 350 or 340 spine. try the axis arrows. if you are set on aluminun, 2315 or 2512 should work fine.

[rabbit16v]

What makes these better? This is the type of technical sh!t I don't know and understand.

[WhiteRubi]

Rabbit,
It's a mathematical equation based on poundage, length of shaft and shaft stiffness, as well as broadhead/field point weight. It's intent is for the arrow to fly true and straight. With a weak spine, the arrow will have erratic flight. I've not read too much about being over spined, so I understand it to be less of an issue, but I could be wrong. An arrow will flex after being shot regardless. With properly spined arrow, it will flex as it should to achieve accuracy.

The spine is actually a measure of deflection with a predetermined set of criteria. Too weak and it will be like shooting pool with a spaghetti noodle. :D

I'm sure Keith can and will give a much better answer.

[keith meador]

nodes and paradox. nodes are a known point at either end of the shaft, when flexed, will be the constant point for deflection. an arrow has to flex when shot. if it is too stiff, it will go in the direction of the point and continue on that plane. if the bow is perfectly tuned, it could work. an arrow too weak will, as stated, shoot like a spaghetti noodle. paradox recovery is the amount of distance/time that the arrow recovers from flex, or being shot. the faster the recovery time, the better the arrow flight. (most people that paper tune can attest to paradox recovery speed) if the arrow continues to wobble in flight (weak spine), it will bleed off energy in vertical and horizontal plane. you want the arrow to recover from paradox within a few feet of the bow, so that energy stays in the horizontal plane, or in the shaft. a stiff arrow, one that does not flex or flexes very little at the shot, will shoot erratic because the shaft wants to follow the point of the arrow, but because it is too stiff, the back wants to pass the front because there is no flex to absorb the forward motion of the string, or energy. the reason flight isn't effected as badly is because the arrow is stiff, and you don't see the arrow "wobble" as much. what you will see is the arrow shooting tail right or left depending on rh or lh shooter. the effect can be, the back of the arrow trying to pass the front due to the shaft not absorbing any of the energy applied to the nock at release. stiff arrows can shoot well, or they can shoot all over the place with no apparent reason.

when buying arrows, spend time looking at that arrow manufacturers spine chart. several companies offer "spine" series arrows, but may not use the same numbering or identifying methods of the industry standard of spine. some companies call their arrow a 200 series, which is actually a 400 spine, while others simply call their 400 spine arrows 400 series.
aluminum can be a little more confusing, because their numbers identify wall thickness and shaft diameter, or 2312 is a 23 series diameter, and a 12 thousands wall thickness and have no indication of spine deflection.

i don't remember the actual weight used for measuring spine deflection, i think it is either 3 or 5 pounds, but basically, they put an arrow in a jig and hang the weight from the center point and measure deflection. the stiffer arrow will flex less than the light spine arrow. you can do this at home with a dial indicator, and also measure arrows for straightness. a simple spin check tool allows you to do both.


fine tuning. you can add weight or subtract weight to your point to change spine deflection, essentially making the arrow weaker or stiffer by changing the mass the arrow has to push forward. this is where front of center comes into play. you need weight in the front of your arrow for it to work correctly. take a length of string, wad it into a ball and throw it. the string will maintain itself in that configuration. take the same length of string, tie a rock to one end, wad it up, then throw it. the string will follow the rock because the rock is now pulling the string through the air. an arrow works the same way.


now, after you have stumbled through all that mess and got your field points to shoot well, you screw on broadheads and start over:D


this all sounds difficult, but it is actually simple if you think it through. you can view most arrow manufacturers charts online, might be worth checking out to see if you have the right setup.

[WhiteRubi]

nodes and paradox. nodes are a known point at either end of the shaft, when flexed, will be the constant point for deflection. an arrow has to flex when shot. if it is too stiff, it will go in the direction of the point and continue on that plane. if the bow is perfectly tuned, it could work. an arrow too weak will, as stated, shoot like a spaghetti noodle. paradox recovery is the amount of distance/time that the arrow recovers from flex, or being shot. the faster the recovery time, the better the arrow flight. (most people that paper tune can attest to paradox recovery speed) if the arrow continues to wobble in flight (weak spine), it will bleed off energy in vertical and horizontal plane. you want the arrow to recover from paradox within a few feet of the bow, so that energy stays in the horizontal plane, or in the shaft. a stiff arrow, one that does not flex or flexes very little at the shot, will shoot erratic because the shaft wants to follow the point of the arrow, but because it is too stiff, the back wants to pass the front because there is no flex to absorb the forward motion of the string, or energy. the reason flight isn't effected as badly is because the arrow is stiff, and you don't see the arrow "wobble" as much. what you will see is the arrow shooting tail right or left depending on rh or lh shooter. the effect can be, the back of the arrow trying to pass the front due to the shaft not absorbing any of the energy applied to the nock at release. stiff arrows can shoot well, or they can shoot all over the place with no apparent reason.

when buying arrows, spend time looking at that arrow manufacturers spine chart. several companies offer "spine" series arrows, but may not use the same numbering or identifying methods of the industry standard of spine. some companies call their arrow a 200 series, which is actually a 400 spine, while others simply call their 400 spine arrows 400 series.
aluminum can be a little more confusing, because their numbers identify wall thickness and shaft diameter, or 2312 is a 23 series diameter, and a 12 thousands wall thickness and have no indication of spine deflection.

i don't remember the actual weight used for measuring spine deflection, i think it is either 3 or 5 pounds, but basically, they put an arrow in a jig and hang the weight from the center point and measure deflection. the stiffer arrow will flex less than the light spine arrow. you can do this at home with a dial indicator, and also measure arrows for straightness. a simple spin check tool allows you to do both.


fine tuning. you can add weight or subtract weight to your point to change spine deflection, essentially making the arrow weaker or stiffer by changing the mass the arrow has to push forward. this is where front of center comes into play. you need weight in the front of your arrow for it to work correctly. take a length of string, wad it into a ball and throw it. the string will maintain itself in that configuration. take the same length of string, tie a rock to one end, wad it up, then throw it. the string will follow the rock because the rock is now pulling the string through the air. an arrow works the same way.


now, after you have stumbled through all that mess and got your field points to shoot well, you screw on broadheads and start over:D


this all sounds difficult, but it is actually simple if you think it through. you can view most arrow manufacturers charts online, might be worth checking out to see if you have the right setup.

Yeah...That's what I said. :D Geez, you guys from Frankfort and all your technical jargon... :rolleyes::D

[rabbit16v]

Also have a whisker biscuit installed for the arrows I currently have. Does this mean if I change to one of these other sizes I would have to change that out also?

BTW, good read but damn that was a lot to take in!

[WhiteRubi]

They make a few different sizes of Whisker Biscuits. I use the standard size for Maxima Hunters, Axis, and FMJ's. I think you will have more of a problem with one that is too small than one that is too big.

[nutcase]

i couldnt find the model in my software if i find it i will punch it in to give you the correct length, which kieth forgot to tell you:D

[ecmbowhunter]

I looked it up. The Magcat is a private label version of the Jaguar Magnum with Dynacams.

[rabbit16v]

I looked it up. The Magcat is a private label version of the Jaguar Magnum with Dynacams.
Correct.

I put together most of the setup w/ a little help and it shoots rather well. All tuning was done by me which is the first time I've had to tune one from scratch. While shooting last year at Bass Pro, I was able to call shots and was actually hitting dead on. My confidence was really high until I had to take a real shot at a doe and missed. Now I'm second guessing myself I believe.

I think I will stick w/ what I've been shooting (pricing on anything else is more than desired) and work on confidence and consistency for now. If I change anything this year it will be in the vibration dept. But I thank all of you for the lessons.

Josh

[Ol T Rex]

looks like you are from Louisville stop in Kings Archery you can shoot through a cronograph and can have arrows weighed and all that good stuff, it will leave you with no doubt. i think they charge like few bucks to shoot through the cron a few times