Has boxing pushed itself out of sports

[KYBOY]

I was watching interviews with boxing analyts last night and they were talking about how boxing is pushing itself out of the publics eye because of pay per views mostly. I agree myself. I use to love to watch boxing but Im not paying to watch all the good fights:mad: Its rediculous. I remember on the the guys said you could line all four champions up and most of the general public wouldent know who they were, and hes right. Oh yea, I cant stand Don King:rolleyes:

[westkybanded]

Boxing no longer has a "hero" character. There isn't a central fighter that the whole nation knows and wants to see fight. I'm embarassed to say I don't even know who the heavyweight champ is....

For my money... I MUCH prefer an MMA fight to boxing anymore.

[KYBOY]

I do know the heavy weight is a 7' 300 pound russian,,,,,I think:confused:

[Bray]

My problem is that there is no "definite" champion. There are too many organizations that have heavy weight champions. Anymore everything is about gimmicks too. Look at the upcoming mayweather delahoya (sp?) fight. Some championship fight. Can anyone even tell me (without looking it up) who the number one contedner is?

I do enjoy the tv show conteder. I think it is the only thing boxing has going right now.

[quackrstackr]

I agree.

The only boxing that I get to see now outside The Contender are the ESPN Classics that I can catch on the weekends.

I'm not paying to watch a pay per view fight. I was short changed too many times back when Tyson was actually worth a flip.

[westkybanded]

I'm not paying to watch a pay per view fight. I was short changed too many times back when Tyson was actually worth a flip.


No kidding! Those were expensive to see first round KO's!

[lymanl3]

Watch UFC and Pride fighting. I mean...floyd had the nerve to say he could beat anyone in the UFC....he said they werent athletes???? Moron would get broke in the UFC...

[th5isback5]

I, myself love boxing, Friends and I get together sometimes and have boxing matches for a few hours. To me though, The UFC isn't helping boxing out. The p.p.v aint helpin either

[KYBOY]

Right now boxing is its own worse enemy.........

[Snareman2]

I don't even watch boxing anymore.

UFC is hot right now, Spike Tv has really made a monster out of it. I love to watch and I'm a huge fan now. As a matter of fact, it's playing right now. Spike has two hours of it on Friday nights, every Thursday has the Ultimate Fighter Champion reality show. They have PPV, but alot of times it is free, thats' my kind of deal.

[westkybanded]

"Enter the Dragon" was on A&E tonight, and I couldn't help but wonder how Bruce Lee would fare in a UFC match....

Was he really what he was cracked up to be, or was he more of a dancer like Jackie Chan?

[MsgMills]

Right now I just hope De La Hoya kicks the crap out of Mayweather Jr. Mayweather acts like he is so untouchable.

[swamper]

UFC is well on its way to replacing boxing in many american beer drinkers eyes. Much more action, many more possibilities to get yourself all messed up, and it's on SPIKE all the time. I don't care what any boxer says....put them in the cage with a Brazilian Ju-jitsu specialist, and they will be ground-n-pounded to a pulp in the first round.

[Hammer]

Right now boxing is its own worse enemy.........

I certainly disagree.

Thanks,

Don King


Seriously, you are correct, and in the past, boxing could get by the scandal since there wasn't another game in town. Now, there are all the MMA events, and frankly, they are more interesting to me and probably most casual fans anyway.

[AteUp]

I, myself love boxing, Friends and I get together sometimes and have boxing matches for a few hours.

Don't forget the headgear.:eek:;)

[AteUp]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10165948/1

Who was better than Oscar and Floyd? Let the countdown begin

http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/boxing/img10165996.jpg
Sugar Ray Robinson dominated the '40s and '50s and never once got knocked out. (Getty Images

By Mike Freeman
CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer

The careers of Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather have been impressive, bordering on other-worldly. These two have been ambassadors for boxing while demonstrating a pugnacious longevity in a sport that punishes elongated careers with damaged brain cells and overwhelmed nervous systems.

That is true, but so is this: When you watch them on Saturday, becoming one of possibly several million to do so, you will not be viewing two of the top 10 best fighters ever. No, not even De La Hoya.

The fact two of the best in boxing history do not make at least my top 10 list shows the historical depth of talent in a sport that has a long list of greatly skilled fighters going back decades.

Boxers have always amazed with their toughness and athleticism. Many of them probably could have been dominant in other sports (Muhammad Ali -- Hall of Fame tight end). Of course it is that all-around skill that separates boxers from the thuggish UFC brawlers.

My list of top 10 greats is not perfect; it is impossible to do a list like this that everyone will agree on. I've seen writers almost get into fistfights arguing over such things (boxing lists seem to inspire more passion than some others).

Some of you will do your usual whining and moaning on the message boards regarding this list. So be it. Just no biting or groin kicks.

My top 10 boxers of all time:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson. This is the only inarguable ranking on this list. No fighter ever combined speed, power and agility like Robinson. He was beaten just once in his first 131 fights.

2. Henry Armstrong. His nickname was "Homicide Hank." That just about says it all. It tells you how good Robinson is that he beats out Armstrong. It was Armstrong who won titles in three different divisions and is the only fighter to hold three titles simultaneously.

3. Benny Leonard. Ring Magazine named him the second-greatest light heavyweight of all time.

4. Ali. He beat Sonny Liston and George Foreman. They were two of the biggest upsets in sports history.

Should Ali be higher on the list, say, second? Maybe. But Ali's body of work is much smaller than Robinson's (175-19-6, 109 KOs), Armstrong's (151-21-9, 101 KOs) and Leonard's (157-11-5, 69 KOs). The fighters in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s endured much more brutal conditions.

5. Willie Pep. Had an amazing 230 victories and was the best defensive fighter who ever lived.

6. Jack Johnson. A brilliant, tactical boxer who while fighting endured unspeakable racism. He might have been the most mentally tough of all the greats.

7. Sugar Ray Leonard. Won titles at five different weights.

8. Roberto Duran. Despite "no mas" he was still a brutal, tough fighter.

9. Joe Louis. Might deserve to be much higher on this list, but quite simply is not as good a fighter as the others. He held the title for 11 years and defended it 25 times.

10. Harry Greb. He fought at least 299 times in many different weight classes throughout the 1920s.

With apologies to: Sam Langford, Jimmy Wilde, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Eder Jofre, Ezzard Charles, Julio Cesar Chavez, Archie Moore and Roy Jones Jr.

A De La Hoya victory just might propel him into the lower echelon of that top 10. His hand speed isn't as slow as people might think and he could absolutely shock an overconfident Mayweather.

Or will we look back at this fight and say this was the moment that Mayweather started his trek toward becoming one of the eternals?

[KYhunter79]

I don't care what any boxer says....put them in the cage with a Brazilian Ju-jitsu specialist, and they will be ground-n-pounded to a pulp in the first round.

I don't agree at all. A good striker will beat a submission artist every time. A good puncher is the most dominant fighter there is.

[beaver396]

I see you forgot to put up Rocky Marciano, Probably the toughest boxer of alltime, he didnt have the skill, but he had one of the hardest right hands and he could also take one on the chin.

I also think lennox lewis was one of the best in his time, he was in his mid 30's in his prime unlike others. he also had some good skills to be 6"6.

[john4]

I was watching interviews with boxing analyts last night and they were talking about how boxing is pushing itself out of the publics eye because of pay per views mostly. I agree myself. I use to love to watch boxing but Im not paying to watch all the good fights:mad: Its rediculous. I remember on the the guys said you could line all four champions up and most of the general public wouldent know who they were, and hes right. Oh yea, I cant stand Don King:rolleyes:


I was just talking to someone about this last night. Pay Per View has moved boxing out of the public eye. Neither one of us could even name the current Heavy Weight Champ.

[lymanl3]

I don't agree at all. A good striker will beat a submission artist every time. A good puncher is the most dominant fighter there is.



A good puncher...a good puncher will get knocked out...fights typically go to the ground...


BTW..that was the WORTST fight I have ever seen...It just reminded me why I would rather watch the UFC or PRIDE.

NO way did Floyd win that fight...Floyds' father even stated that Oscar won by punching stats....I mean...he was way more aggressive...neither fighter hurt one another that much...but Oscar was more aggressive hands down...



Lyman

[F250Stroke]

A good puncher...a good puncher will get knocked out...fights typically go to the ground...
lyman
What about Chuck Liddel?

[Gobblergetter2.1]

I love boxing, but i agree with most everybody else; i cant really get into it unless there is a real champ fighting. Someone to make you interested. I love UFC, mainly because it is alot more physical, and it depicts real fights. Most of the boxers now days are short wetbacks that swing at a million miles per hour all day long anyways. :rolleyes:

[turkeytalker]

Whoever the heavyweight champ is i'm sure THE ICEMAN would beat him.WHY?Because the most important thing to a boxer is defensive skills,only taking offense when the moment presents itself.A striker works from the offensive position,making the defensive fighter let his guard down.

All i'm saying is defense doesn't win championships,I was never a fan of Ali and still ain't because he was lazy,Joe Frazier beat the ***# out of him repeatedly.Ali's style is coming back to haunt the boxing world and the dope has been roped.

[lymanl3]

Whoever the heavyweight champ is i'm sure THE ICEMAN would beat him.WHY?Because the most important thing to a boxer is defensive skills,only taking offense when the moment presents itself.A striker works from the offensive position,making the defensive fighter let his guard down.

All i'm saying is defense doesn't win championships,I was never a fan of Ali and still ain't because he was lazy,Joe Frazier beat the ***# out of him repeatedly.Ali's style is coming back to haunt the boxing world and the dope has been roped.


I love chuck...but rampage beat him...beat him....didnt he lay on the canvas after the match was over? Chuck is a striker..not a puncher/boxer..

[turkeytalker]

Ah yes,didn't Tito Ortiz beat him once?That's what happens in real fights.You can't lay on the ropes and wait for the judges to give it o you.

I'm looking forward to the rematch,hey Chuck's like me he ain't gettin any younger!

[KYhunter79]

A good puncher...a good puncher will get knocked out...fights typically go to the ground...


BTW..that was the WORTST fight I have ever seen...It just reminded me why I would rather watch the UFC or PRIDE.

NO way did Floyd win that fight...Floyds' father even stated that Oscar won by punching stats....I mean...he was way more aggressive...neither fighter hurt one another that much...but Oscar was more aggressive hands down...



Lyman

I guess we agree to disagree then. If Mike Tyson were to fight Royce Gracy, I would bet any amount that you want on Mike Tyson. I'm not talking about strikers. I'm talking about highclass boxers. A good smart stand up fighter with knockout ability wont let it go to the ground most of the time. The UFC doesn't have very many of those kind of fighters. Thats why I still prefer boxing over UFC. I don't like watching guys wrestle around on the ground and I hate to see someone lose by submission. Just my personal preferences. Boxing definitely has its flaws too though...Mostly with politics and questionable judge scoring..

[cornbread]

Turkeytalker, Who are you refering to Chuck or Rampage? Tito fought Chuck twice and Chuck kicked his but both times. I don't know if Tito has fought Rampage or not. I do hope that Chuck knocks Rampage out.

As for boxing, it has gotten boring. I miss the days of Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe and before them Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and Holmes.
In my book Ali is the greatest. Keep in mind that he could not fight for
2 1/2 years (of his prime) due to the draft issue.

[MsgMills]

Speaking of the UFC, I saw a little bit of the Best Damn Sports Show last night. They were going over I believe the Best Fights of all time in the UFC. The final one was a Guy wearing Shorts like an American Flag. The other was a Korean guy with bleach Blonde hair..... I swear from teh start of the bell , these two guys beat each other to a pulp non-stop for 5 straight minutes...I'm not kidding, my wife just couldn't believe that two guys could go at it for so long...Anyway the American dude pummeled the Korean guy...He couldn't see out of either eye...He looked like some sort of monster from the swelling to his face.......

That is one bad ass fight I'd like to have recorded on my PC for future watching...I don't know who the guys were, but it was totally awesome..... A real fight for sure...The guys put one hand behind the neck of their opponet and held on and just punched their hearts out on each other...Just Unbelieveable.....

If anyone knows who they were or where I can get a link to the Fight let me know...Thanks

[AteUp]

It's probably one of these. I don't know which one though.

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5721378

[lymanl3]

Turkeytalker, Who are you refering to Chuck or Rampage? Tito fought Chuck twice and Chuck kicked his but both times. I don't know if Tito has fought Rampage or not. I do hope that Chuck knocks Rampage out.

As for boxing, it has gotten boring. I miss the days of Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe and before them Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton and Holmes.
In my book Ali is the greatest. Keep in mind that he could not fight for
2 1/2 years (of his prime) due to the draft issue.



Cornbread,

I believe Rampage has beat Chuck....it was in a pride fight....

[nwest]

Cornbread,

I believe Rampage has beat Chuck....it was in a pride fight....


Beat him like a drum, the corner through in the towel.

[Tim T]

as somebody who spent 16 years in a boxing ring, I will give a short version of what I believe is wrong with the sport.

1.) No national governing body to control the sport.

2.) Lack of American heavyweights. I belive this is because kids now our big and athletic kids have more opportunities to play football and basketball than they could during the heyday of the heavyweight division.

3.) Too many champions and too many weight classes. This causes the really good fighters to not fight each other and we rarely have "Big Time Fights" any more.

4.) the rise of MMA. I don't like, don't watch it....it is not my cup of tea, but LOTS of people do watch it.

5.) No protection for the fighters from unscrupulous promoters and managers. I am not just talking about Don King, but nearly every promoter. Very few of them care about their fighters.

6.) No boxing stars in the Olympics. Now all of our good amateur fighters turn pro before going to the olympics, so they are not well known. If my memory serves correctly, we have only had three gold medal winners since 1988 (I could be wrong about this).

7.) Pay-per-view. Any half way decent fight is on PPV and there is no Network boxing any more. Anybody remember Wide World of Sports and the fights they put on? Marv Albert calling fights on Saturday after noons on NBC?

Lots of work to be done to save the sport, if it is not to late. Sorry about the rant, but this is something near and dear to me and it is dying a slow and painful death.

[MsgMills]

Yep Ateup, that was what it was The Best Beat Down @ # 1....I tell ya I could watch that slug fest every day and it would really start my day off just mighty fine......

[KYBOY]

as somebody who spent 16 years in a boxing ring, I will give a short version of what I believe is wrong with the sport.

1.) No national governing body to control the sport.

2.) Lack of American heavyweights. I belive this is because kids now our big and athletic kids have more opportunities to play football and basketball than they could during the heyday of the heavyweight division.

3.) Too many champions and too many weight classes. This causes the really good fighters to not fight each other and we rarely have "Big Time Fights" any more.

4.) the rise of MMA. I don't like, don't watch it....it is not my cup of tea, but LOTS of people do watch it.

5.) No protection for the fighters from unscrupulous promoters and managers. I am not just talking about Don King, but nearly every promoter. Very few of them care about their fighters.

6.) No boxing stars in the Olympics. Now all of our good amateur fighters turn pro before going to the olympics, so they are not well known. If my memory serves correctly, we have only had three gold medal winners since 1988 (I could be wrong about this).

7.) Pay-per-view. Any half way decent fight is on PPV and there is no Network boxing any more. Anybody remember Wide World of Sports and the fights they put on? Marv Albert calling fights on Saturday after noons on NBC?

Lots of work to be done to save the sport, if it is not to late. Sorry about the rant, but this is something near and dear to me and it is dying a slow and painful death.
Very true..........

[swamper]

I guess we agree to disagree then. If Mike Tyson were to fight Royce Gracy, I would bet any amount that you want on Mike Tyson. I'm not talking about strikers. I'm talking about highclass boxers. A good smart stand up fighter with knockout ability wont let it go to the ground most of the time. The UFC doesn't have very many of those kind of fighters. Thats why I still prefer boxing over UFC. I don't like watching guys wrestle around on the ground and I hate to see someone lose by submission. Just my personal preferences. Boxing definitely has its flaws too though...Mostly with politics and questionable judge scoring..

That's exactly why the prof. boxer would get beaten like a red-headed step child!!!! They have never in there careers had to defend the take-down, much less figure out what to do when they are flat on their backs taking elbows to the face. I imagine it would be very simple for Tito to take down Mayweather or Da LaHoya. Liddell is a striker..but he also has excellent take-down defense, and a decent ground game himself..something NO prof. boxer has ever trained against. It would be like taking candy from a baby I tell ya...a baby!! Unfortunately, we'll never see Royce/Tyson, but I'd take that bet any day!!!

[AteUp]

Depends on the rules of the fight I guess. I doubt those guys could box in a ring with Tyson back in the day.

[F250Stroke]

Tyson was good if someone stood in front of him but he didnt fare well against good boxers who used movement and boxing skills.Buster Douglas,Evander Holyfield,and Lennox Lewis took him apart piece by piece.Tyson fell apart when he left his trainer Kevin Rooney.Yes boxing has pushed itself out of main stream sports thanks in part to Hbo and Showtime.The two big boxing networks wont allow their respective fighters to fight each other therefore limiting the quality of the fights.The average fan probably couldnt name any of the current title holders.Ive been a huge fan since Sugar Ray Lenorad,Marvin Hagler,Thomas Hearns,Ray Mancini,Ali\Frazier,Norton,Foreman,they just dont have those type of fighters anymore.They all fought the best fighters of their time.The closest would be De La Hoya,he has fought the best of his time although he has come out on the losing end several times he still fought the best fighters out there.Ill watch the Mayweather\De la Hoya fight this weekend on HBO.They usually reair all of the PPVs the following week.

[superrman77]

You can also thank Don King for destroying boxing!

[F250Stroke]

yes,boxing and a lot of boxers as well.

[KYBOY]

A lot of good boxers lives have been ruined for Don Kings hair gel:eek:

[lymanl3]

f250,

go drink a beer or watch squirrels wrestle.....the fight was terrible. You could watch two no name UFC or Pride fighters and get way more action. After that decision.....I will never watch another boxing fight. Flat out sad when a boxers father says hes own son lost...but he, at least I got to see 50 cent rap:rolleyes: . I mean...he comes walkin in with a sombrero and puts on that pathetic show...lame.

Lyman

[Tim T]

lyman, don't misunderstand my post. The fight was what I was expecting, which as a boxing purist, I enjoy. If want to watch to guys just go at it, there is a biker bar about a mile from my house that has a $2 cover charge:) !

I believe Mayweather lost the fight as well, I had it 7 rounds to 5 (115-113). That being said, Floyd Mayweather Sr. doesn't have much of a relationship with his son and he has been Oscar's trainer for his recent fights and only didn't train Oscar for this fight because of the family connection.

The Mayweather family is boxing's version of the Osbournes. They are all (Both Floyd's, uncle Roger etc.) as dysfunctional as you can find. I guess what I am trying to say is that if Oscar would have lost every round, Floyd Sr. would have said it was a bad decision.

[KYhunter79]

That's exactly why the prof. boxer would get beaten like a red-headed step child!!!! They have never in there careers had to defend the take-down, much less figure out what to do when they are flat on their backs taking elbows to the face. I imagine it would be very simple for Tito to take down Mayweather or Da LaHoya. Liddell is a striker..but he also has excellent take-down defense, and a decent ground game himself..something NO prof. boxer has ever trained against. It would be like taking candy from a baby I tell ya...a baby!! Unfortunately, we'll never see Royce/Tyson, but I'd take that bet any day!!!

Tito and De La Hoya wouldn't be in the same weight class by far. You just keep thinking that. Maybe it will happen one day. And I'll be here to take your money, my friend.:) Mike Tyson in the Mid 80's didn't even have to hit you flush and could knock you out. I can see it now. Tito rushes in for the takedown, Tyson hits him in the bridge of his nose and he goes out. End of fight. I have never fought a proffessional fighter, I have trained with an EX proffessional fighter. But, I have defended against the takedown several times. Catch them on the bridge of the nose, on the ear, or drum him a couple times on the top of the head. That will lay him down.

[nwest]

Tito and De La Hoya wouldn't be in the same weight class by far. You just keep thinking that. Maybe it will happen one day. And I'll be here to take your money, my friend.:) Mike Tyson in the Mid 80's didn't even have to hit you flush and could knock you out. I can see it now. Tito rushes in for the takedown, Tyson hits him in the bridge of his nose and he goes out. End of fight. I have never fought a proffessional fighter, I have trained with an EX proffessional fighter. But, I have defended against the takedown several times. Catch them on the bridge of the nose, on the ear, or drum him a couple times on the top of the head. That will lay him down.


Tito can't beat Chuck and you want to put him in the ring with tyson:eek: . MMA and boxing are 2 different sports. I bet Jordan can beat Tiger at basketball too:rolleyes:

[Tim T]

I don't think it is comparable whether the MMA guys could beat boxers. Every single fighter is different. I think rules, etc. would be a factor as well as style of fighters. If the weight classes were the same, there would still be mixed results. For example, what would happen if a MMA guy got the boxer on the ground? What would happen if a hard punching boxer landed a straight right hand to one of the MMA guys? I don't think there is a definitive answer. I guess it is fun to think about though.

What about wrestlers? Sure it is fake, but those guys are big and athletic and can take care of themselves. What if they did one of their pile drivers, but did it to hurt somebody? I just think it is an ongoing debate and we will never know the answer because each situation is different.

[lymanl3]

I can see it now...jake the snake roberts wins by a figure four over floyd mayweather!!! The Iron Sheik wins via camel clutch over Tito Ortiz!! LOL...

I agree Tim, I knew it wouldnt be a brawl...Oscar did what he is trained to do and thats outbox Floyd. Yeah, theres the family conflict, but floyd sr still has silky hair:cool: .

I just think I am past boxing...I do not enjoy watching it and that fight just strengthened my disposition towards boxing. I grew up idolizing Iron Mike...then he disgraced the sport. BTW...I can still be Don Flamenco in under a minute:D

Lyman

[Tim T]

Well I want ot be either Stone Cold Steve Austin or Handsome Jimmy Valiant!!!:)

Lyman, if you grew up with Mike Tyson as the guy, you missed out on the glory years of boxing. The funny thing is that I fought in the amateurs and when you would travel to national events you would see the same guys before they were famous i.e. Tyson, Roy Jones etc. Heck, I saw all 12 fighters on the 84 olympic team fight before they ever took home 9 golds, a silver and a bronze. Anyway, all of the fighters at national tournaments always thought Mike Tyson was nuts, some even thought he was gay because of the way he talked and the way he always kissed Cus D'Amato! I once saw him get knocked out by someone named Al Evans (I am pretty sure that was the name).

BTW, for those of you that don't know Jerry Goff from Knockout Hunting Adventures was fighting in the amateurs and people said he was "going to be the next great white hope." Man this makes me feel old :mad:

[MsgMills]

I would rather watch the UFC, then waste my time watching...What is supposed to be * Boxing * now a days...... Just too boring...Bring on the UFC...True Fighters for sure.......:D

[KyHunting]

Speaking of the UFC, I saw a little bit of the Best Damn Sports Show last night. They were going over I believe the Best Fights of all time in the UFC. The final one was a Guy wearing Shorts like an American Flag. The other was a Korean guy with bleach Blonde hair..... I swear from teh start of the bell , these two guys beat each other to a pulp non-stop for 5 straight minutes...I'm not kidding, my wife just couldn't believe that two guys could go at it for so long...Anyway the American dude pummeled the Korean guy...He couldn't see out of either eye...He looked like some sort of monster from the swelling to his face.......

That is one bad ass fight I'd like to have recorded on my PC for future watching...I don't know who the guys were, but it was totally awesome..... A real fight for sure...The guys put one hand behind the neck of their opponet and held on and just punched their hearts out on each other...Just Unbelieveable.....

If anyone knows who they were or where I can get a link to the Fight let me know...Thanks

Yoshihiro Takayama vs Don Frye at Pride 21 in 2002. Here is a link to the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9XYT-N2Fwg

[MsgMills]

Yoshihiro Takayama vs Don Frye at Pride 21 in 2002. Here is a link to the fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9XYT-N2Fwg


Man that's it, great video...Dude's if you haven't seen this video, it's a must.....Wooooot...Hoooooot....... I'm pumped again........ Can you tell?????:):D

[F250Stroke]

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=3150872&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312 Here was one of the warriors of boxing today,sad to hear.